<!--quoteo(post=1706798:date=May 13 2009, 03:27 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ May 13 2009, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1706798"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've noticed that those new maps are usually not made by Valve, or not for the core CTF and CP game modes, yes. Badwater and Goldrush are the only two maps from Valve to genuinely improve the experience. Arena is fine but provides little longterm interest. The community maps started off good but now they seem to be scraping the barrel. Since the Medic and the Pyro, most of the unlocks have either detracted from (Sandman) or done little to enrich the experience. I'm increasingly finding the unlocks to be gimmicky, the weeks after the unlocks ruin gameplay through oversaturation of a given class and generally give me little reason to continue playing. For me the most interesting update of late was allowing the Spy to fill up his cloak meter from ammo drops.
As for the forthcoming customisation update... I'll just leave that topic alone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We in the competitive scene love Turbine, okay so it's not valve made but still it's an addition which has improved the experience. Infact I even love pubbing Turbine now, it's a quirky map and great for DM.
Arena mode has its use Sonic. It's pretty good for the competitions we use at ETF2L. I also find it quite enjoyable after getting drunk, medics who can aim tend to win arena <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1706890:date=May 14 2009, 09:59 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ May 14 2009, 09:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1706890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rather than lowering their movement, this one should lower their health so that it only takes two point-blank revolver shots to kill them rather than three.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm... it'd have to be a pretty big movement penalty to be much of a payoff for it. Snipers don't move around as often as the other classes, 'cept for maybe the engineer.
I guess pyros are going to be having a field day if they can get up close enough. Slow, weak classes make the pyro cry tears of joy.
Pyros have always had an easy time with snipers up close, a small movement penalty isn't going to make any difference. It's getting up close that's the problem, and now that snipers don't have to worry about spies so much they can worry more about shooting people in the head.
I hope the shield is irreplacable once it gets stabbed off you. Ammo pickups, resupply cabinets, switching classes, nothing should replenish it. Once your shield is gone, it's gone, and only dying should restore it.
The spy update conspiracies have once again arisen. Except this time they are leaning towards a double-class update.
Valve's been screwing with people by intermittently changing the background image. <a href="http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3573/spyuncloak.jpg" target="_blank">http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3573/spyuncloak.jpg</a> <a href="http://hifigaming.net/misc/WTFSNIPER.PNG" target="_blank">http://hifigaming.net/misc/WTFSNIPER.PNG</a> <a href="http://imgkk.com/i/KeJdrQVe.png" target="_blank">http://imgkk.com/i/KeJdrQVe.png</a>
Even kotaku accidentally screencapped the spy without noticing. <a href="http://kotaku.com/5255109/the-snipers-new-shield-makes-his-posterior-spy+proof" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5255109/the-snipers-new-...erior-spy+proof</a>
Steam forums are so amusing sometimes. and valve rocks.
<!--quoteo(post=1706898:date=May 15 2009, 12:12 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (X_Stickman @ May 15 2009, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1706898"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm... it'd have to be a pretty big movement penalty to be much of a payoff for it. Snipers don't move around as often as the other classes, 'cept for maybe the engineer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> With the Huntsman they will. Also offensive snipers are better snipers, so it's a pretty tough choice for those who are already credit to team.
Frankly though, that's the only proper way to do the spy update.
I wonder if they'd have the guts to have the spy update "backstab" the sniper update and take its place. It'd probably be a bad idea though.
And it may be a little late to point this out, but <a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2499" target="_blank">my fears have been assuaged.</a>
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1706930:date=May 15 2009, 11:18 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ May 15 2009, 11:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1706930"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the Huntsman they will. Also offensive snipers are better snipers, so it's a pretty tough choice for those who are already credit to team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah they move forward to get to their spot but then they usually hang around in a spot until their team gets pushed back or their team moves forward. All of the other classes have to keep moving around (except the engineer), whereas the sniper usually gets to an area and stays there, strafing around in a small area.
<!--quoteo(post=1706895:date=May 14 2009, 10:24 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ May 14 2009, 10:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1706895"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We in the competitive scene love Turbine, okay so it's not valve made but still it's an addition which has improved the experience. Infact I even love pubbing Turbine now, it's a quirky map and great for DM.
Arena mode has its use Sonic. It's pretty good for the competitions we use at ETF2L. I also find it quite enjoyable after getting drunk, medics who can aim tend to win arena <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->As I said, the Community maps are going downhill now. Turbine is a great little map, except for the spawn areas which I really don't like (both exits on the same corridor, glass walls and only one medicine cabinet). I love Fastlane and its improvements and I quite like Steel. Badlands is my all-time favourite map, and if they just focused on making maps like that instead of churning out tiny Arena maps and relying on Community maps I would play more TF2. I don't expect most people to agree with me, that's just why I haven't been playing TF2 for the past few months. I will almost definitely check out the new map and game mode, because this is exactly what I have been waiting for with every new update: some kind of longevity.
Not sure how the dead ringer will work, do you get instant cloak and just see a ragdoll fly past? So two shots at roughly same spot will detect you anyway? What about pyro fire, will it light you up instantly? Weird stuff but I sure like the cloak and dagger. No more "just a second more so they turn around" moments.
You mixed the two up, but yeah, my greatest regret, too, is not being permanently invisible.
By the way, I'd love to say "I told you so" about the spy update backstabbing the sniper update, but I didn't think they were gonna do that. Holy ######.
Both of these are also watches, two updates for same slot? Unless they literally mean the "Cloak and Dagger" replaces the cloak watch and the knife, but that would just screw things over. Zapper?
On an interesting note the TF2 blog when this update was revealed originally said...<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Day 4 of the Sniper update brings us... hold on, that's not...
Holy hell. All those conspiracy theorists on the TF forum couldn't have been right all along, could they? When the Pyro hears about this she'll be inconsolable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now the last sentence reads <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pyro's going to be inconsolable now<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> instead XD
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
edited May 2009
BEARD CAMERA!
Was talking to lolf and he made a valid point. There's nothing you can really replace the knife with. There's nothing that's going to be as effective as the knife, or useful in other situations for the spy. Same with the sapper. There's nothing really to replace it with. And the disguise kit.
The only weapon really open for replacement with the spy is the revolver, so maybe both of those watches are for the same slot and you just pick which of the two you want to use. Or maybe cloak & dagger replaces the revolver, and the other one replaces the knife, or something.
*EDIT*
Hell maybe they both just replace the regular cloak. Cloak and dagger can't be recharged by ammo crates, which makes getting through a blockade harder, so there's a tradeoff. The other one might have a longer recharge time or just be single use.
If you look at the spy's loadout screen, he has three slots: Revolver, knife and invisibility watch (which shows the disguise kit). The sapper isn't even shown, so odds are it can't be replaced.
Currently, my best bet is that the two watches will both be replacements for the invisibility watch (and that they'll only replace the watch, not the disguise kit), with a third, unannounced one for the revolver.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the disguise kit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, I always thought an buildings disguise kit would be fun. Everybody turns their backs to dispensers! And you could be a teleporter and get the elusive bottom-stab! Or you could be a level 3 sg and lure them into an ambush! The only problem is the getting whacked by engineers constantly.... and the immobility.
Christ, now my two favorite classes have updates and one of them even has an unlock I think I'd like. I might have to dust off the ol' steam console and start playing again. Though, the achievement grind...
<!--quoteo(post=1706990:date=May 15 2009, 06:40 PM:name=SkulkBait)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SkulkBait @ May 15 2009, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1706990"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though, the achievement grind...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Unlockable weapons are getting de-linked from achievements. I don't know if it will happen with this update, nor what the new method will be, but they said it was happening in one interview. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Here we are. "The primary change here is simply the decoupling of achievements and unlockables, which is the source of most of the negative feedback we've received around previous class packs." <a href="http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1124" target="_blank">http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1124</a>
So maybe it IS with this update. sorta sounds like that.
It is to a large extent. Often, the only building you'll find away from sentries is a teleporter entrance. That's well and good, but one of the spy's greatest strengths is to slap a sapper on a sentry just as the team attacks. Even if the engineer is right on it, that's a few moments where the sentry can't shoot or be repaired, and that is often decisive. Even if they don't fool players much nowadays, disguises are still essential simply for their ability to fool sentries.
But it's not like I can't wait. I expect you will be proven wrong shortly.
Comments
As for the forthcoming customisation update... I'll just leave that topic alone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We in the competitive scene love Turbine, okay so it's not valve made but still it's an addition which has improved the experience. Infact I even love pubbing Turbine now, it's a quirky map and great for DM.
Arena mode has its use Sonic. It's pretty good for the competitions we use at ETF2L. I also find it quite enjoyable after getting drunk, medics who can aim tend to win arena <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Hmm... it'd have to be a pretty big movement penalty to be much of a payoff for it. Snipers don't move around as often as the other classes, 'cept for maybe the engineer.
I guess pyros are going to be having a field day if they can get up close enough. Slow, weak classes make the pyro cry tears of joy.
I hope the shield is irreplacable once it gets stabbed off you. Ammo pickups, resupply cabinets, switching classes, nothing should replenish it. Once your shield is gone, it's gone, and only dying should restore it.
Valve's been screwing with people by intermittently changing the background image.
<a href="http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3573/spyuncloak.jpg" target="_blank">http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/3573/spyuncloak.jpg</a>
<a href="http://hifigaming.net/misc/WTFSNIPER.PNG" target="_blank">http://hifigaming.net/misc/WTFSNIPER.PNG</a>
<a href="http://imgkk.com/i/KeJdrQVe.png" target="_blank">http://imgkk.com/i/KeJdrQVe.png</a>
Even kotaku accidentally screencapped the spy without noticing. <a href="http://kotaku.com/5255109/the-snipers-new-shield-makes-his-posterior-spy+proof" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5255109/the-snipers-new-...erior-spy+proof</a>
Steam forums are so amusing sometimes. and valve rocks.
With the Huntsman they will.
Also offensive snipers are better snipers, so it's a pretty tough choice for those who are already credit to team.
I wonder if they'd have the guts to have the spy update "backstab" the sniper update and take its place. It'd probably be a bad idea though.
And it may be a little late to point this out, but <a href="http://www.teamfortress.com/post.php?id=2499" target="_blank">my fears have been assuaged.</a>
Also offensive snipers are better snipers, so it's a pretty tough choice for those who are already credit to team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah they move forward to get to their spot but then they usually hang around in a spot until their team gets pushed back or their team moves forward. All of the other classes have to keep moving around (except the engineer), whereas the sniper usually gets to an area and stays there, strafing around in a small area.
Arena mode has its use Sonic. It's pretty good for the competitions we use at ETF2L. I also find it quite enjoyable after getting drunk, medics who can aim tend to win arena <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->As I said, the Community maps are going downhill now. Turbine is a great little map, except for the spawn areas which I really don't like (both exits on the same corridor, glass walls and only one medicine cabinet). I love Fastlane and its improvements and I quite like Steel. Badlands is my all-time favourite map, and if they just focused on making maps like that instead of churning out tiny Arena maps and relying on Community maps I would play more TF2. I don't expect most people to agree with me, that's just why I haven't been playing TF2 for the past few months. I will almost definitely check out the new map and game mode, because this is exactly what I have been waiting for with every new update: some kind of longevity.
<img src="http://www.teamfortress.com/spyupdate/images/04_background.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Not sure how the dead ringer will work, do you get instant cloak and just see a ragdoll fly past? So two shots at roughly same spot will detect you anyway? What about pyro fire, will it light you up instantly? Weird stuff but I sure like the cloak and dagger. No more "just a second more so they turn around" moments.
By the way, I'd love to say "I told you so" about the spy update backstabbing the sniper update, but I didn't think they were gonna do that. Holy ######.
Holy hell. All those conspiracy theorists on the TF forum couldn't have been right all along, could they? When the Pyro hears about this she'll be inconsolable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now the last sentence reads <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pyro's going to be inconsolable now<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> instead XD
Was talking to lolf and he made a valid point. There's nothing you can really replace the knife with. There's nothing that's going to be as effective as the knife, or useful in other situations for the spy. Same with the sapper. There's nothing really to replace it with. And the disguise kit.
The only weapon really open for replacement with the spy is the revolver, so maybe both of those watches are for the same slot and you just pick which of the two you want to use. Or maybe cloak & dagger replaces the revolver, and the other one replaces the knife, or something.
*EDIT*
Hell maybe they both just replace the regular cloak. Cloak and dagger can't be recharged by ammo crates, which makes getting through a blockade harder, so there's a tradeoff. The other one might have a longer recharge time or just be single use.
Currently, my best bet is that the two watches will both be replacements for the invisibility watch (and that they'll only replace the watch, not the disguise kit), with a third, unannounced one for the revolver.
That's a lot of effort to go to for a prank. A LOT of effort.
--Scythe--
Actually, I always thought an buildings disguise kit would be fun. Everybody turns their backs to dispensers! And you could be a teleporter and get the elusive bottom-stab! Or you could be a level 3 sg and lure them into an ambush! The only problem is the getting whacked by engineers constantly.... and the immobility.
Christ, now my two favorite classes have updates and one of them even has an unlock I think I'd like. I might have to dust off the ol' steam console and start playing again. Though, the achievement grind...
Unlockable weapons are getting de-linked from achievements. I don't know if it will happen with this update, nor what the new method will be, but they said it was happening in one interview. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Here we are.
"The primary change here is simply the decoupling of achievements and unlockables, which is the source of most of the negative feedback we've received around previous class packs."
<a href="http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1124" target="_blank">http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1124</a>
So maybe it IS with this update. sorta sounds like that.
But it's not like I can't wait. I expect you will be proven wrong shortly.