<!--quoteo(post=1724054:date=Aug 20 2009, 05:39 PM:name=iPanda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (iPanda @ Aug 20 2009, 05:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I quiet like it. But the damage mitigation move if combined with Slide + Heal spray how are you ment to kill a gorge? Seems more defensive viably then the Onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As was pointed out earlier, I'm sure if the devs decide to impliment a belly slide they'll find a fun and balanced way to do it. Me pointing out possible issues doesn't hurt though, so here's another.
What if a gorge jumps off a ledge onto a slope? Will he be able to hit belly slide whilst falling and take a component of the momentum he just built up by falling into his slide? This would be fairly awesome.
It of course depends on the implimentation actually using physics, rather than just setting the parameters explicitly - which would of course mean the gorge would only be able to slide down hill but it's a viable solution if they felt it was the right way to take (unless there's a little launch when he goes into it allowing him to slide a small distance on flat surfaces). If they were going to specify it in a different way then I guess I'd change my question to, will a gorge be able to hit belly slide in mid air and enter it straight away on hitting the slope?
On a completely different note: I can just see - with a physics implimentation - someone modding to set the friction coefficient to negative... rocket powered slide gorges!
I would like to suggest the possibility to give the Gorge a new skill, this may be called "Constructor" or something like that; as we know that the aliens will not climb ladders, maybe the "Gorge" now would build ramps and/or barricades made of secreted resin in the same way that "webs" are built when third Hive is up. In this case the "Gorge" secreted resin is available from the beginning of the game, although limited to a certain amount, enough to build just one ramp or one barricade for each "Gorge". When the ramp or barricade is destroyed by the Marines, the "Gorge" can build another one.
<!--quoteo(post=1724279:date=Aug 21 2009, 11:35 AM:name=kicker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kicker @ Aug 21 2009, 11:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724279"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no ladder would be a pain in the ass for map makers and would destroy tactical aspects ...so ...there will be ladders :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many maps already have few ladders. I can't think of a single ladder on Veil for example, and only Triad on Eclipse
It seems to me that without support chambers, the gorge's utility is much reduced. I came up with a few ways to combine the alien commander's technological control with the gorge's tactical chamber building:
OPTION A The alien commander places Master Chambers that allow the use of movement, sensory, of defense abilities. The presence of a Master Chamber allows gorges to also build the corresponding Minor Chamber. If a Master Chamber, which is very expensive, is destroyed, then all corresponding support chambers wither and die. (or become disabled)
OPTION B The alien commander can place support chambers around the map that grow very slowly. Gorges can see these budding structures' "glow" through the map and can healspray them to make them grow much faster. So the alien commander still places tech structures but depends on the gorges to develop them quickly.
OPTION C Combine both option A and option b. So both gorges and the commander can place chambers but only the gorges can make them grow quickly. The commander defines the evolutionary path by placing the Master Chambers.
<!--quoteo(post=1724286:date=Aug 21 2009, 06:21 AM:name=tjosan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (tjosan @ Aug 21 2009, 06:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We can <i>belly-slide</i> as gorges, but we can't dodge by jumping away as marines? >_< Hi darr.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think we can all see the difference between ns1 marines jumping around to exploit hitboxes and knockback vs a real melee. The game really should never devolve into who can exploit the weaknesses in the current engine/programming.
That goes for bunny hopping too... I know it's fun, but we need to be honest about it. It's not about the skill of that special maneuver, it's about wanting to win and being willing to use an unintended exploit if it gives us what we want. Unfortunately b-hopping was prevalent enough that it became engrained in the fps culture for many years, so they've grown attached to it to the point that some forget that it is in fact an exploit. Same thing goes for pistol scripting, lag exploiting, and crouch-fading. It's more of a lesson about not being slow to fix exploits.
They're fixing an exploit that people used a lot for a long time. It's ok. It should've happened sooner, but that's life. The reason you win shouldn't include knowledge of the differences between the game physics and reality.
Sorry to seem harsh, but if you find a flaw in the game that's exploitable do you: A: Report it and let the devs fix their game B: Exploit it so that you can win C: Ignore it and get back to having fun
you overdid the belly. cut 1/6 of it away. its slimey and adorable, but a serious weakness, which throws the 'natural selection' and 'development and increase of effectivity' away,
Do gorge's puke up dynamic infestation? I see a gorge dropping a few "plants" ahead, and then the dynamic infestation eventually growing along and melding with the base of the plants to be seamless. Perhaps chambers built in established DI grow more quickly, or get a natural (small) boost to healing.
gg spit first attack gorge to upgrade version to structures . many games are bored and unfunnest thx easy close hives and gorges dont have bilebomb up to mines pgs sentrys etc a lot of merde rine stuf vs spit 30 dmg and skulks gg =D
Oh wow, the gorge is generally my most played class and this "little" fella looks awesome! I love the synergy with the hive through the belly.
I'm intrigued by the changes, they certainly seem to make the gorge a little more survivable, but at the same time I'm cautiously interested in how the building structures situation will work out with regards to cost. If he's a bit more guerilla support then I imagine it'll all work very well though!
you overdid the belly. cut 1/6 of it away. its slimey and adorable, but a serious weakness, which throws the 'natural selection' and 'development and increase of effectivity' away,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who says that being a fat fatty and (because of it) being better at their job (thus gaining skulky friends and fade bodyguards more easily) is not the better route to happiness than a diet?
<!--quoteo(post=1724299:date=Aug 21 2009, 01:31 PM:name=perfectheat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (perfectheat @ Aug 21 2009, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724299"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the Gorge! Will miss running into web though :(
+ for distorted view. It's suppose to suck getting hit.
And I think slide sounds like fun. At least try it out in Alpha if you think it's a great idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plus it means that on a small part the job of "harass the marines in to an ambush" can be done by the gorge spit rather than the parasite. We all know 'rines love to follow the fatties.
+1 vote for belly slide. It could be a serious strategy element, giving gorges fast entry or exit to key areas (XOR, that is). I really like it, and yes, it'd be fun too :)
Maybe, for fun, be able to slide anywhere? Trot along a hallway, and then go sliding around... this would also imply that he maintains momentum after sliding down a hill. ... did anyone else just get a mental picture of a gorge half-pipe?
Heck, I am even willing to use Gems special smily :3
Back on topic though: Very consistent alien look so far. Lets hope you can keep that up. I also like the possibility of the gorge barfing out an organic blob, that slowly grows into a chamber. Thats a great improvement over the "out of thin air" effect, that NS chambers had to them.
Including the belly slide is probaly the best idea every, simply because it allows the gorge to have some fun stuff during downtimes :D and it also allows for gorge slide maps.
so with the alien commander building structures the team doesn't NEED a gorge? i don't see why anyone would actually play this class - it has a weak attack, its slow to move and it's special move is defend self. the ability to heal players is only useful on an onos; i.e. the only other class that moves as slow. a skulk is more effective to attack with (and is quick enough to heal themselves at the hive), and surely saving for a fade is better than dropping a few random ocs or dcs?
Hey guys ! First let me say you've done great work so far ! I totally agreed with everything you showed us, but now I wanna share my opinion about the new design of the gorge with you. The design itself and the animations are great, but i think you should re-design his face. The eyes and his jaws make him look old ... Giving him big, round eyes and changing the shape of his jaws a little would make him look younger and much more cute - without taking the "serious" aspect of the design.
I modified the rendered picture a little, to show you what I mean :
This picture is not perfect, but it should be meaningful. I know that you want to express his "plumpness" with the actual design, but his belly is expressive (and impressive xD ) enough ;)
For the most part, I think you hit it out of the ball park.
I <i>do</i> think the tiny useless armor plates border on the ridiculous. Not only would they protect the gorge <i>less</i> when deployed, but... why would the Marine shoot the plates? I would -gut reaction- shoot the broad, unarmored sides.. I think you could remedy this by making his belly glow go away and his skin grow darker. To make it look like it's shrinking, to sort of bunch-up and grow thicker.
I <b>love</b> the expression. It says to me <i><b>"YEAH, YEAH hold on. Let me just...</b> ######... </i>goddamnit."
I would like to say though, that many people would associate that expression with the experience of playing a Gorge. I can definatly see it turning people off to the Gorge class.
My final note is, his armored snout. Keep it definatly, but it might be possible to do something to it to make the Gorge not look so... aardvarkian.
Edit: I forgot- I was imagining for the Gorge regurgitating a big glop of goo, which would slowly congeal into the stem of a structure. It looks like something like that might be going on.
Edit2: Did you give him the tail tentacles in response to players butt-waving at skulks?
<!--quoteo(post=1724385:date=Aug 21 2009, 02:38 PM:name=Valcien)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Valcien @ Aug 21 2009, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1724385"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I <b>love</b> the expression. It says to me <i><b>"YEAH, YEAH hold on. Let me just...</b> ######... </i>goddamnit."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally, you can almost hear him grumbling through your computer screen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to say though, that many people would associate that expression with the experience of playing a Gorge. I can definatly see it turning people off to the Gorge class.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody is going to not play a class because of what it looks like. You don't have to look at yourself when you play the class, and people ALWAYS try every option available to them. Everyone will try the gorge. Their decision to avoid playing it or not will be based on the gorge gameplay, not aesthetics.
LOVE the new Gorge, even if he does seem to have the letter 'A' on his nose ;)
Also really like the belly-slide suggestion. Maybe as an extra ability, where if he has enough engergy he 'pukes' up in-front of himself & kicks off to slide away. Would be good to get out of somewhere quickly, but uses us a LOT of energy, so can only be used once in a long while. Or, Slide on infection that's around the place. Some great ideas for this ability could be had!
Great job. Looking forward to Alpha more and more.
Comments
Well gorge won't have perma energy / adrenaline
What if a gorge jumps off a ledge onto a slope? Will he be able to hit belly slide whilst falling and take a component of the momentum he just built up by falling into his slide? This would be fairly awesome.
It of course depends on the implimentation actually using physics, rather than just setting the parameters explicitly - which would of course mean the gorge would only be able to slide down hill but it's a viable solution if they felt it was the right way to take (unless there's a little launch when he goes into it allowing him to slide a small distance on flat surfaces). If they were going to specify it in a different way then I guess I'd change my question to, will a gorge be able to hit belly slide in mid air and enter it straight away on hitting the slope?
On a completely different note: I can just see - with a physics implimentation - someone modding to set the friction coefficient to negative... rocket powered slide gorges!
I like the idea about the belly slide. maby he could make som damage if he slides in til someone? hehe
Can't wait to see the Lerk :D
I would like to suggest the possibility to give the Gorge a new skill, this may be called "Constructor" or something like that; as we know that the aliens will not climb ladders, maybe the "Gorge" now would build ramps and/or barricades made of secreted resin in the same way that "webs" are built when third Hive is up. In this case the "Gorge" secreted resin is available from the beginning of the game, although limited to a certain amount, enough to build just one ramp or one barricade for each "Gorge". When the ramp or barricade is destroyed by the Marines, the "Gorge" can build another one.
What do you think?
His hiding animation is cute.
Sliding on that belly seems like a really fun idea.
I can just see "we are the real monsters" spray painted on a wall next to a dead gorge.
Many maps already have few ladders. I can't think of a single ladder on Veil for example, and only Triad on Eclipse
OPTION A
The alien commander places Master Chambers that allow the use of movement, sensory, of defense abilities. The presence of a Master Chamber allows gorges to also build the corresponding Minor Chamber. If a Master Chamber, which is very expensive, is destroyed, then all corresponding support chambers wither and die. (or become disabled)
OPTION B
The alien commander can place support chambers around the map that grow very slowly. Gorges can see these budding structures' "glow" through the map and can healspray them to make them grow much faster. So the alien commander still places tech structures but depends on the gorges to develop them quickly.
OPTION C
Combine both option A and option b. So both gorges and the commander can place chambers but only the gorges can make them grow quickly. The commander defines the evolutionary path by placing the Master Chambers.
I think we can all see the difference between ns1 marines jumping around to exploit hitboxes and knockback vs a real melee. The game really should never devolve into who can exploit the weaknesses in the current engine/programming.
That goes for bunny hopping too... I know it's fun, but we need to be honest about it. It's not about the skill of that special maneuver, it's about wanting to win and being willing to use an unintended exploit if it gives us what we want. Unfortunately b-hopping was prevalent enough that it became engrained in the fps culture for many years, so they've grown attached to it to the point that some forget that it is in fact an exploit. Same thing goes for pistol scripting, lag exploiting, and crouch-fading. It's more of a lesson about not being slow to fix exploits.
They're fixing an exploit that people used a lot for a long time. It's ok. It should've happened sooner, but that's life. The reason you win shouldn't include knowledge of the differences between the game physics and reality.
Sorry to seem harsh, but if you find a flaw in the game that's exploitable do you:
A: Report it and let the devs fix their game
B: Exploit it so that you can win
C: Ignore it and get back to having fun
I LOVE THE ANIMATIONS, ITS GENIUS.
you overdid the belly. cut 1/6 of it away. its slimey and adorable, but a serious weakness, which throws the 'natural selection' and 'development and increase of effectivity' away,
Ns_gorge-surf!
lol
many games are bored and unfunnest thx easy close hives and gorges dont have bilebomb up to mines pgs sentrys etc a lot of merde rine stuf vs spit 30 dmg and skulks
gg =D
I'm intrigued by the changes, they certainly seem to make the gorge a little more survivable, but at the same time I'm cautiously interested in how the building structures situation will work out with regards to cost. If he's a bit more guerilla support then I imagine it'll all work very well though!
I LOVE THE ANIMATIONS, ITS GENIUS.
you overdid the belly. cut 1/6 of it away. its slimey and adorable, but a serious weakness, which throws the 'natural selection' and 'development and increase of effectivity' away,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who says that being a fat fatty and (because of it) being better at their job (thus gaining skulky friends and fade bodyguards more easily) is not the better route to happiness than a diet?
+ for distorted view. It's suppose to suck getting hit.
And I think slide sounds like fun. At least try it out in Alpha if you think it's a great idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Plus it means that on a small part the job of "harass the marines in to an ambush" can be done by the gorge spit rather than the parasite. We all know 'rines love to follow the fatties.
Maybe, for fun, be able to slide anywhere? Trot along a hallway, and then go sliding around... this would also imply that he maintains momentum after sliding down a hill.
... did anyone else just get a mental picture of a gorge half-pipe?
Heck, I am even willing to use Gems special smily :3
Back on topic though: Very consistent alien look so far. Lets hope you can keep that up. I also like the possibility of the gorge barfing out an organic blob, that slowly grows into a chamber. Thats a great improvement over the "out of thin air" effect, that NS chambers had to them.
Including the belly slide is probaly the best idea every, simply because it allows the gorge to have some fun stuff during downtimes :D and it also allows for gorge slide maps.
i don't see why anyone would actually play this class - it has a weak attack, its slow to move and it's special move is defend self. the ability to heal players is only useful on an onos; i.e. the only other class that moves as slow. a skulk is more effective to attack with (and is quick enough to heal themselves at the hive), and surely saving for a fade is better than dropping a few random ocs or dcs?
The design itself and the animations are great, but i think you should re-design his face. The eyes and his jaws make him look old ...
Giving him big, round eyes and changing the shape of his jaws a little would make him look younger and much more cute - without taking the "serious" aspect of the design.
I modified the rendered picture a little, to show you what I mean :
<img src="http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/9029/gorgerender01suggestion.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
This picture is not perfect, but it should be meaningful. I know that you want to express his "plumpness" with the actual design, but his belly is expressive (and impressive xD ) enough ;)
BTW : belly slide + 1
I see a new mod coming on for NS: Gorge Bowling
I <i>do</i> think the tiny useless armor plates border on the ridiculous. Not only would they protect the gorge <i>less</i> when deployed, but... why would the Marine shoot the plates? I would -gut reaction- shoot the broad, unarmored sides.. I think you could remedy this by making his belly glow go away and his skin grow darker. To make it look like it's shrinking, to sort of bunch-up and grow thicker.
I <b>love</b> the expression. It says to me <i><b>"YEAH, YEAH hold on. Let me just...</b> ######... </i>goddamnit."
I would like to say though, that many people would associate that expression with the experience of playing a Gorge. I can definatly see it turning people off to the Gorge class.
My final note is, his armored snout. Keep it definatly, but it might be possible to do something to it to make the Gorge not look so... aardvarkian.
Edit: I forgot- I was imagining for the Gorge regurgitating a big glop of goo, which would slowly congeal into the stem of a structure. It looks like something like that might be going on.
Edit2: Did you give him the tail tentacles in response to players butt-waving at skulks?
Totally, you can almost hear him grumbling through your computer screen.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to say though, that many people would associate that expression with the experience of playing a Gorge. I can definatly see it turning people off to the Gorge class.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody is going to not play a class because of what it looks like. You don't have to look at yourself when you play the class, and people ALWAYS try every option available to them. Everyone will try the gorge. Their decision to avoid playing it or not will be based on the gorge gameplay, not aesthetics.
Also really like the belly-slide suggestion. Maybe as an extra ability, where if he has enough engergy he 'pukes' up in-front of himself & kicks off to slide away. Would be good to get out of somewhere quickly, but uses us a LOT of energy, so can only be used once in a long while. Or, Slide on infection that's around the place. Some great ideas for this ability could be had!
Great job. Looking forward to Alpha more and more.