locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1736009:date=Nov 3 2009, 11:22 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 3 2009, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You actually said Hozart was not going to preorder the game, but leaving that aside - you are not the arbiter of all that is true and informative about NS2, and the"answers" contained in your post don't hold any weight whatsoever as far as my desire to play or not to play this game. In fact it didn't really merit a reply, as this isn't a discussion I particularly care to have, except for one thing, and this is related to something I and others have mentioned that holds us back from "taking a chance" on a pre-order:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think it's both of you(and probably many others) TBH. No, I'm not an "arbiter of all that is true", but I am telling you the news that is out there related to his questions. You don't have to believe my "answers" you can verify them yourself. <!--quoteo(post=1736009:date=Nov 3 2009, 11:22 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 3 2009, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is what I meant when I said it was terrifying that UWE is proactively taking into account feedback from people who have never seen or played their in-production game. "Autobite" was never about "locking on to targets!" It simply meant "bite on contact" for targets you've already fired at and are being propelled towards. As proven conclusively by your post, reactionaries on this very forum saw the word "auto" and immediately jumped to the conclusion that it was equivalent to "autoaim," threw a tantrum about it, and shockingly UWE removed attack functionality based on nothing but a total misinterpretation by forum-goers!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is funny becuase you were just mocking me for providing answers by calling me an "arbiter of all that is true" and then you proceed to make up <i>exactly</i> how autobite would have worked. Bravo.
<!--quoteo(post=1736100:date=Nov 4 2009, 03:56 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Nov 4 2009, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736100"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you proceed to make up <i>exactly</i> how autobite would have worked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One of us "made up exactly how autobite would have worked," and it wasn't me.
"Added auto-bite for Skulk leap <u><b>when he touches a target</b></u>" - NS2 twitter feed
BITE WHEN HE TOUCHES A TARGET. Not "locks onto a target when you aim at it." I.e. AFTER YOU AIM AND FIRE THE LEAP ATTACK, you bite IF IT HITS.
You are <u>dead wrong</u> on this, and so were a lot of other posters. The game may or may not be worse off for it, who knows... but what does this say about the rest of the "answers" you helpfully provided in your previous post?
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited November 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1736106:date=Nov 4 2009, 11:12 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 4 2009, 11:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736106"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of us "made up exactly how autobite would have worked," and it wasn't me.
"Added auto-bite for Skulk leap <u><b>when he touches a target</b></u>" - NS2 twitter feed
BITE WHEN HE TOUCHES A TARGET. Not "locks onto a target when you aim at it." I.e. AFTER YOU AIM AND FIRE THE LEAP ATTACK, you bite IF IT HITS.
You are <u>dead wrong</u> on this, and so were a lot of other posters. The game may or may not be worse off for it, who knows... but what does this say about the rest of the "answers" you helpfully provided in your previous post?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't want to get into this because autobite is done and gone. It was implemented, tested, and discarded before the community was halfway through talking about. However, I don't like how you're trying to characterize my position.
I think there were lots of pitfalls to worry about with an autobite and I said as much, but that's not the same as claiming to know how it would work. The tweet you quoted is a rough estimation of how it would have worked. Whats happens if you're facing away? Can I turn it off? What's the cooldown? What's the adren usage compared to a regular bite and/or leap? Can it miss? Does it really remove the lag differences? These are all important gameplay questions that weren't answered. Maybe the devs were struggling with the same questions and that's why they took it out, but I think you're giving the devs too little credit if you think they blindly listen to the community.
I think you are confusing the position others were taking; they weren't saying leap would have autoaim, but there was discussion how it would change the game. Simply, you're missing the subtly of the argument in your rage; try re-reading the orig thread with that in mind and don't assume everyone else is using a naive approach. If you still don't get it please PM me and I'll try to explain it better, but as it's a dead topic I'd rather not clutter up a thread with it.
As I said earlier you don't have to believe me, you can look up all of the things I mentioned in past casts and blogs. You're shooting the messenger for no reason other than unfounded rage.
<!--quoteo(post=1736114:date=Nov 4 2009, 04:46 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Nov 4 2009, 04:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't like how you're trying to characterize my position. they weren't saying leap would have autoaim<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to get into the past debates either, only the present one, in which you did in fact literally say autobite would have "autolocked on targets." The point isn't to debate the merits of autobite, it is to bring up the implications of how MISINTERPRETATIONS of very simple developer twitter posts have had a very real impact on NS2's gameplay.
I know, nobody likes being proven wrong, especially with the implication that your documented error may have hurt the overall product, but my purpose isn't to attack you personally. It's just to discuss issues that hold back some from the level of trust in the final product which preorders <i>at this stage in development</i> would imply.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1736116:date=Nov 4 2009, 11:56 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 4 2009, 11:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't want to get into the past debates either, only the present one, in which you did in fact literally say autobite would have "autolocked on targets."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I did not. <b>Hozart</b> asked "Do skulk bites autolock on targets?". I said no. I assumed he was referring to the million autobite references on this forum and also mentioned that it had been removed. It does not imply that I ever thought there was an autoleap feature as well; that's you putting words in my mouth. <!--quoteo(post=1736116:date=Nov 4 2009, 11:56 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 4 2009, 11:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point isn't to debate the merits of autobite, it is to bring up the implications of how MISINTERPRETATIONS of very simple developer twitter posts have had a very real impact on NS2's gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again I think you're giving the devs way too little credit if you don't think they test things for themselves. Again the original questions about autobite had nothing to do with an "autoleap feature" and you're characterizing past arguments naively. Again you are assuming that your interpretation of a vague tweet is the only correct interpretation with no basis. Very important questions like "Can it miss if you touch a marine?" and "Do you have to be facing the marine for the bite to trigger/hit?" were not answered and could be reasonably interpreted as an autolock.
<!--quoteo(post=1736131:date=Nov 4 2009, 05:31 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Nov 4 2009, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736131"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Again I think you're giving the devs way too little credit if you don't think they test things for themselves. Again the original questions about autobite had nothing to do with an "autoleap feature" and you're characterizing past arguments naively. Again you are assuming that your interpretation of a vague tweet is the only correct interpretation with no basis. Very important questions like "Can it miss if you touch a marine?" and "Do you have to be facing the marine for the bite to trigger/hit?" were not answered and could be reasonably interpreted as an autolock.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I dont' know... one page of some people saying skulks were too big and some saying they were fine... and they shrink the models within a couple days.
That doesn't sound like testing, that sounds like caving.
<!--quoteo(post=1736139:date=Nov 4 2009, 05:55 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 4 2009, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont' know... one page of some people saying skulks were too big and some saying they were fine... and they shrink the models within a couple days.
That doesn't sound like testing, that sounds like caving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Btw, notice my Consti icon (which I well overpayed for). I donated to UWE because they gave me something I love playing. They do that again and I will give them money again.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1736151:date=Nov 4 2009, 02:04 PM:name=Hozart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hozart @ Nov 4 2009, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->locallyunscene et. al., I hope you are still in Q&A mode, because the other questions were for rhetoric:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lol, I'm afraid this round of questions isn't as easy as the first. <!--quoteo(post=1736151:date=Nov 4 2009, 02:04 PM:name=Hozart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hozart @ Nov 4 2009, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will there be a matchmaking system? Strategy games employ this frequently, is NS enough of a strategy game to warrant MM?
Any Anti-Leaver system?
Voting system? In-game ways of kicking griefers or non-team players?
How have they decided to handle the slippery slope effect? Do they care?
Are they keeping up with the times? Strategy games and FPSs are evolving, so what are they adopting from current popular franchises?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The only question I have an answer for is the last one. They are constantly looking at other games and you can see their inspirations in the twitter sometimes. For example the power grid is an evolution of CoD's territory system(IIRC). The other stuff you asked about hasn't been mentioned by devs AFAIK.
<!--quoteo(post=1735623:date=Nov 2 2009, 08:25 PM:name=Kradath)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kradath @ Nov 2 2009, 08:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why and in which way should NS2 have any kind of DRM?
The likeliest way to prevent pirating would be keys you need to play online with an account.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That is a form of DRM. -_-
<!--quoteo(post=1736194:date=Nov 4 2009, 09:42 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 4 2009, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736194"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Steamworks is a straight-up DRM platform, FYI.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it's a good form of DRM as opposed to the crap EA put into their games. Even nicer when they have the game deals, I've managed to get some pretty awesome games at 75% discount.
<!--quoteo(post=1736204:date=Nov 4 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Fortune)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 4 2009, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736204"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But it's a good form of DRM as opposed to the crap EA put into their games. Even nicer when they have the game deals, I've managed to get some pretty awesome games at 75% discount.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No it's not. Valve's idea of DRM is that they control the software more than the user or the developer does.
Know how many games on Steam have EULAs that say you can resell your game?
Know how many Valve's probably-illegal superseding Steam EULA says you can sell?
<!--quoteo(post=1736139:date=Nov 4 2009, 05:55 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Nov 4 2009, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736139"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont' know... one page of some people saying skulks were too big and some saying they were fine... and they shrink the models within a couple days.
That doesn't sound like testing, that sounds like caving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those images with the smaller skulks were not done by us, they were done by someone in the community. We have not given any official word on reducing skulks down in size. Most likely there will be adjustments made to the skulk, to the machine gun model, possibly to every other asset in the game, based on gameplay needs, playtesting, visual polish, etc. Just like every other game. So, I would recommend not getting too attached or too upset about stuff like that at this point.
As far as making changes which are perceived to be "caving" to the community. We are going to make people upset no matter what we do. If we don't change something that a lot of people are complaining about, we'll have to hear how we don't listen to and care about our community. If we do make changes we get to hear that we are "caving".
We put things out for the community to give feedback on, because your feedback is valuable to us. However, we don't just change something because a lot of people are complaining. We try to go beyond just the "I hate this" reactions, and try to get at what the real issues are behind the initial reactions. We then may go back and re examine the issue, and if it was something we weren't very sure of or comfortable or happy with to start, then we may end up changing it. Just as often we may feel strongly about something, or know more about the game mechanics that has not been revealed to the community yet, and decide to continue on the path that were were going, regardless of some of the hostility of members of the community towards a certain approach. In some cases, like auto skulk bite, it had already been removed based on internal decisions before it turned into a big controversy on the forums.
Another case in point. The taser, which was quite the hotbed of controversy. We wanted to try something different, but for various reasons we weren't totally sold on it it. When it was clear many people had issues with it, we went back to re evaluate it. We had never felt like it fit in as well as we would have liked, and planning it out further we realized that in the end it would actually be too complicated and too much work to create the necessary effects and gameplay mechanics that we felt it needed in order to be cool enough to warrant a change from the pistol/knife.
We are listening, but at the same time WE are making the decisions that we feel are best for the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1736022:date=Nov 4 2009, 03:52 PM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Nov 4 2009, 03:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An added shortcut on a game with steamworks integration is no different then buying it direct.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't care about integrated shortcuts or anything. I just want to be able to download the content off the steam servers because my ISP provdes this in a cap freezone. Download limits in AUS etc.
<!--quoteo(post=1735564:date=Nov 2 2009, 11:56 AM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Nov 2 2009, 11:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For me it's being uncertain if the game will work on Linux. I liked NS and generally like the direction NS2 is heading to. However:
- any form of DRM, if present, is likely to prevent NS2 from working in wine. - while the update with first 2 screenshots said the engine is meant to be cross-platform, that's still no guarrantee there <b>will</b> be a Linux version.
Of course very few game developers promise a Linux version before the game is ready, but I'm <b>not</b> dropping $20, much less $40 on a game which may not work at all for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1736151:date=Nov 4 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Hozart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hozart @ Nov 4 2009, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->locallyunscene et. al., I hope you are still in Q&A mode, because the other questions were for rhetoric:
Will there be a matchmaking system? Strategy games employ this frequently, is NS enough of a strategy game to warrant MM?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Highly unlikely imo. Matchmaking systems are costly (servers to handle matchmaking and stat-tracking) and take a lot of time to get right. I very much doubt NS2 will have any system that automatically matches you to similar skilled opponants. There are soft forms of matchmaking that could be attempted, but I doubt the work spent on even a soft system would be considered when the team is already small and has more important things to be putting their efforts into.
If the game supports data tracking it could be something to be considered post-release, but probably an unrealistic goal for release for such a small dev team.
Metal SmithJoin Date: 2009-11-05Member: 69283Members
Just a comment on UWE taking into consideration the comments of players in certain areas.
If you don't want to pre order it because they take the advice, or seem to take the advice, of the community too often in terms of game features, I think that's too bad. To say that someone who has played NS for 7 years does not know enough about the gameplay of NS 2 to make comments on things in NS 2 is a very skewed perception of things. The game is so similar that instead of writing about what the game is, they just gave a (rather short) list of ways the gameplay will differ. The fact that the differences are so few, and they seem to mostly make each class more focused on a role, should go to show that the games are, in fact, similar enough to use you're experiences in one to make comments on how you would think the idea would affect the other.
Skulk size? Yeah, skulks are very small in NS 1, and very hard to hit. The screen shots they looked very large, and easy to hit. The idea that skulks would be big was sort of a let down for some NS players, as a larger skulk may have been a nice idea, over doing it would drastically change both how the class is played and how well the skulk fit it's role.
Lastly, the skulk size may have been something that they did not have a set idea for the size yet, and would have been something they wanted to change depending on how it worked in alpha / beta testing. In this case, asking or taking the advice of the community would simply be finding a more idea starting point for skulk size, rather than just taking a size that the majority of the community felt was very wrong.
Again, some people have been in this community since 2002. It's very hard to imagine that the devs would seriously not consider a thing the people said.
Didn't they say somewhere the Skulk was going to the 'soldier' class in NS2? If it's going to be more of a tank (note: comparitive to NS1, not absolute) then it makes sense it should be easier to hit. They definitely said the Skulk will have more hitpoints relative to NS1. Someone else can help me with the quotes.
My lack of money. In between jobs at the moment and can't scrape together $40 bucks to throw at UWE at the moment. Soon as my first paycheck hits I will, though. ;P
To all the people saying UWE "caves": <i>Please.</i> Every single issue has two separate sides to it -- for and against -- and no matter what action UWE takes you can skew it as "caving" or "ignoring". How about we drop the generalizations and have a little faith for once?
<!--quoteo(post=1735574:date=Nov 3 2009, 03:17 AM:name=borsuk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (borsuk @ Nov 3 2009, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735574"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And have you heard the term "slashdotted" ? Do you know what happens if a Linux version causes a game to be mentioned on Slashdot not to mention lesser sites ?
Penny-Arcade likes NS. Whilst they might not have quite as much power as the Slashdot Effect, when they direct people to a game site they're more than capable of melting servers.
I'm a very poor university student and I'm paying for the studies myself. I plan on buying UnknownWorld's eternal gratitude edition of NS2, but since the game isn't going to be released by 2009, I don't feel a rush in needing to pre-order the game even though I know it'll help with the progress of the game. When I do get my next pay, (thanks to more hours at work) I'll pre-order and maybe buy constellation for regular NS.
Linux support right now. I know, it's a bit petty, but after what happened with UT3 I want to see it available (at least beta or something) before I pre-order.
Besides, if a beta Linux client comes available, I'll be all upons that.
Comments
I think it's both of you(and probably many others) TBH. No, I'm not an "arbiter of all that is true", but I am telling you the news that is out there related to his questions. You don't have to believe my "answers" you can verify them yourself.
<!--quoteo(post=1736009:date=Nov 3 2009, 11:22 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 3 2009, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736009"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is what I meant when I said it was terrifying that UWE is proactively taking into account feedback from people who have never seen or played their in-production game. "Autobite" was never about "locking on to targets!" It simply meant "bite on contact" for targets you've already fired at and are being propelled towards. As proven conclusively by your post, reactionaries on this very forum saw the word "auto" and immediately jumped to the conclusion that it was equivalent to "autoaim," threw a tantrum about it, and shockingly UWE removed attack functionality based on nothing but a total misinterpretation by forum-goers!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is funny becuase you were just mocking me for providing answers by calling me an "arbiter of all that is true" and then you proceed to make up <i>exactly</i> how autobite would have worked. Bravo.
One of us "made up exactly how autobite would have worked," and it wasn't me.
"Added auto-bite for Skulk leap <u><b>when he touches a target</b></u>" - NS2 twitter feed
BITE WHEN HE TOUCHES A TARGET. Not "locks onto a target when you aim at it." I.e. AFTER YOU AIM AND FIRE THE LEAP ATTACK, you bite IF IT HITS.
You are <u>dead wrong</u> on this, and so were a lot of other posters. The game may or may not be worse off for it, who knows... but what does this say about the rest of the "answers" you helpfully provided in your previous post?
"Added auto-bite for Skulk leap <u><b>when he touches a target</b></u>" - NS2 twitter feed
BITE WHEN HE TOUCHES A TARGET. Not "locks onto a target when you aim at it." I.e. AFTER YOU AIM AND FIRE THE LEAP ATTACK, you bite IF IT HITS.
You are <u>dead wrong</u> on this, and so were a lot of other posters. The game may or may not be worse off for it, who knows... but what does this say about the rest of the "answers" you helpfully provided in your previous post?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to get into this because autobite is done and gone. It was implemented, tested, and discarded before the community was halfway through talking about. However, I don't like how you're trying to characterize my position.
I think there were lots of pitfalls to worry about with an autobite and I said as much, but that's not the same as claiming to know how it would work. The tweet you quoted is a rough estimation of how it would have worked. Whats happens if you're facing away? Can I turn it off? What's the cooldown? What's the adren usage compared to a regular bite and/or leap? Can it miss? Does it really remove the lag differences? These are all important gameplay questions that weren't answered. Maybe the devs were struggling with the same questions and that's why they took it out, but I think you're giving the devs too little credit if you think they blindly listen to the community.
I think you are confusing the position others were taking; they weren't saying leap would have autoaim, but there was discussion how it would change the game. Simply, you're missing the subtly of the argument in your rage; try re-reading the orig thread with that in mind and don't assume everyone else is using a naive approach. If you still don't get it please PM me and I'll try to explain it better, but as it's a dead topic I'd rather not clutter up a thread with it.
As I said earlier you don't have to believe me, you can look up all of the things I mentioned in past casts and blogs. You're shooting the messenger for no reason other than unfounded rage.
I don't want to get into the past debates either, only the present one, in which you did in fact literally say autobite would have "autolocked on targets." The point isn't to debate the merits of autobite, it is to bring up the implications of how MISINTERPRETATIONS of very simple developer twitter posts have had a very real impact on NS2's gameplay.
I know, nobody likes being proven wrong, especially with the implication that your documented error may have hurt the overall product, but my purpose isn't to attack you personally. It's just to discuss issues that hold back some from the level of trust in the final product which preorders <i>at this stage in development</i> would imply.
No, I did not. <b>Hozart</b> asked "Do skulk bites autolock on targets?". I said no. I assumed he was referring to the million autobite references on this forum and also mentioned that it had been removed. It does not imply that I ever thought there was an autoleap feature as well; that's you putting words in my mouth.
<!--quoteo(post=1736116:date=Nov 4 2009, 11:56 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 4 2009, 11:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The point isn't to debate the merits of autobite, it is to bring up the implications of how MISINTERPRETATIONS of very simple developer twitter posts have had a very real impact on NS2's gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again I think you're giving the devs way too little credit if you don't think they test things for themselves. Again the original questions about autobite had nothing to do with an "autoleap feature" and you're characterizing past arguments naively. Again you are assuming that your interpretation of a vague tweet is the only correct interpretation with no basis. Very important questions like "Can it miss if you touch a marine?" and "Do you have to be facing the marine for the bite to trigger/hit?" were not answered and could be reasonably interpreted as an autolock.
I dont' know... one page of some people saying skulks were too big and some saying they were fine... and they shrink the models within a couple days.
That doesn't sound like testing, that sounds like caving.
That doesn't sound like testing, that sounds like caving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems like you got tricked by a (bad) photoshop!?
Will there be a matchmaking system? Strategy games employ this frequently, is NS enough of a strategy game to warrant MM?
Any Anti-Leaver system?
Voting system? In-game ways of kicking griefers or non-team players?
How have they decided to handle the slippery slope effect? Do they care?
Are they keeping up with the times? Strategy games and FPSs are evolving, so what are they adopting from current popular franchises?
Lol, I'm afraid this round of questions isn't as easy as the first.
<!--quoteo(post=1736151:date=Nov 4 2009, 02:04 PM:name=Hozart)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hozart @ Nov 4 2009, 02:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Will there be a matchmaking system? Strategy games employ this frequently, is NS enough of a strategy game to warrant MM?
Any Anti-Leaver system?
Voting system? In-game ways of kicking griefers or non-team players?
How have they decided to handle the slippery slope effect? Do they care?
Are they keeping up with the times? Strategy games and FPSs are evolving, so what are they adopting from current popular franchises?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only question I have an answer for is the last one. They are constantly looking at other games and you can see their inspirations in the twitter sometimes. For example the power grid is an evolution of CoD's territory system(IIRC). The other stuff you asked about hasn't been mentioned by devs AFAIK.
The likeliest way to prevent pirating would be keys you need to play online with an account.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That is a form of DRM. -_-
But it's a good form of DRM as opposed to the crap EA put into their games. Even nicer when they have the game deals, I've managed to get some pretty awesome games at 75% discount.
EA and Sony sell you malware. GG.
No it's not. Valve's idea of DRM is that they control the software more than the user or the developer does.
Know how many games on Steam have EULAs that say you can resell your game?
Know how many Valve's probably-illegal superseding Steam EULA says you can sell?
That doesn't sound like testing, that sounds like caving.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those images with the smaller skulks were not done by us, they were done by someone in the community. We have not given any official word on reducing skulks down in size. Most likely there will be adjustments made to the skulk, to the machine gun model, possibly to every other asset in the game, based on gameplay needs, playtesting, visual polish, etc. Just like every other game. So, I would recommend not getting too attached or too upset about stuff like that at this point.
As far as making changes which are perceived to be "caving" to the community. We are going to make people upset no matter what we do. If we don't change something that a lot of people are complaining about, we'll have to hear how we don't listen to and care about our community. If we do make changes we get to hear that we are "caving".
We put things out for the community to give feedback on, because your feedback is valuable to us. However, we don't just change something because a lot of people are complaining. We try to go beyond just the "I hate this" reactions, and try to get at what the real issues are behind the initial reactions. We then may go back and re examine the issue, and if it was something we weren't very sure of or comfortable or happy with to start, then we may end up changing it. Just as often we may feel strongly about something, or know more about the game mechanics that has not been revealed to the community yet, and decide to continue on the path that were were going, regardless of some of the hostility of members of the community towards a certain approach. In some cases, like auto skulk bite, it had already been removed based on internal decisions before it turned into a big controversy on the forums.
Another case in point. The taser, which was quite the hotbed of controversy. We wanted to try something different, but for various reasons we weren't totally sold on it it. When it was clear many people had issues with it, we went back to re evaluate it. We had never felt like it fit in as well as we would have liked, and planning it out further we realized that in the end it would actually be too complicated and too much work to create the necessary effects and gameplay mechanics that we felt it needed in order to be cool enough to warrant a change from the pistol/knife.
We are listening, but at the same time WE are making the decisions that we feel are best for the game.
Thanks.
--Cory
I don't care about integrated shortcuts or anything. I just want to be able to download the content off the steam servers because my ISP provdes this in a cap freezone. Download limits in AUS etc.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh snap.
perhaps this will make people calm down a bit.
wait .. I forgot where I was .. never mind! :D
- any form of DRM, if present, is likely to prevent NS2 from working in wine.
- while the update with first 2 screenshots said the engine is meant to be cross-platform, that's still no guarrantee there <b>will</b> be a Linux version.
Of course very few game developers promise a Linux version before the game is ready, but I'm <b>not</b> dropping $20, much less $40 on a game which may not work at all for me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My lack of money.
Will there be a matchmaking system? Strategy games employ this frequently, is NS enough of a strategy game to warrant MM?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Highly unlikely imo. Matchmaking systems are costly (servers to handle matchmaking and stat-tracking) and take a lot of time to get right. I very much doubt NS2 will have any system that automatically matches you to similar skilled opponants. There are soft forms of matchmaking that could be attempted, but I doubt the work spent on even a soft system would be considered when the team is already small and has more important things to be putting their efforts into.
If the game supports data tracking it could be something to be considered post-release, but probably an unrealistic goal for release for such a small dev team.
If you don't want to pre order it because they take the advice, or seem to take the advice, of the community too often in terms of game features, I think that's too bad. To say that someone who has played NS for 7 years does not know enough about the gameplay of NS 2 to make comments on things in NS 2 is a very skewed perception of things. The game is so similar that instead of writing about what the game is, they just gave a (rather short) list of ways the gameplay will differ. The fact that the differences are so few, and they seem to mostly make each class more focused on a role, should go to show that the games are, in fact, similar enough to use you're experiences in one to make comments on how you would think the idea would affect the other.
Skulk size? Yeah, skulks are very small in NS 1, and very hard to hit. The screen shots they looked very large, and easy to hit. The idea that skulks would be big was sort of a let down for some NS players, as a larger skulk may have been a nice idea, over doing it would drastically change both how the class is played and how well the skulk fit it's role.
Lastly, the skulk size may have been something that they did not have a set idea for the size yet, and would have been something they wanted to change depending on how it worked in alpha / beta testing. In this case, asking or taking the advice of the community would simply be finding a more idea starting point for skulk size, rather than just taking a size that the majority of the community felt was very wrong.
Again, some people have been in this community since 2002. It's very hard to imagine that the devs would seriously not consider a thing the people said.
To all the people saying UWE "caves": <i>Please.</i> Every single issue has two separate sides to it -- for and against -- and no matter what action UWE takes you can skew it as "caving" or "ignoring". How about we drop the generalizations and have a little faith for once?
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_effect" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot_effect</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Penny-Arcade likes NS. Whilst they might not have quite as much power as the Slashdot Effect, when they direct people to a game site they're more than capable of melting servers.
Besides, if a beta Linux client comes available, I'll be all upons that.