<!--quoteo(post=1768187:date=Apr 21 2010, 01:44 PM:name=Point)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Point @ Apr 21 2010, 01:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If i would implement anything, let the commander recycle marines for being useless or not going the right way after repeated requests. (feeding aliens res by rushing hive) Or let commanders spend res to put marines in timeout boxes in the marine base where they can't do anything for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ACK! NO!
Player-to-Player Negative feedback not worky. Let game mechanics do that (you walk into the enemy hive alone, you are about to die to 5 Skulks). For everything else, use positive reinforcement.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 01:46 PM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys. I'm working on the NS2 commander interface at the moment, so I've created this thread to hear your thoughts in general about the NS commander experience so we can improve it as much as possible for NS2.
Ask yourselves questions like:
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair? What do you love and/or hate about commanding? Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why? Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?
Anything goes. Let's hear your thoughts!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply add the ability to prevent marines from picking up equipment if they don't listen to the comm. Noting is more irritating then being a comm and having a bunch of rines sit in base demanding gear without actually putting any effort into the game. The same players wo think they have skill because they sit in hive with shotty and camp skulks as they spawn.
Also a container type spawn point where the marine spawns into a container picks from assorted gear left in the container by the commander then exits. Destroying it would destroy any weapons/gear inside as well
Setting up player voting to "boundry" one or more rines into a defined base area if they ignore waypoints, constantly feed, block line of sight firing or other things to get teammates killed
a little bubble extending from com chairs /pg so they are unable to go past the boundry line.
the worst thing I found when comming (particiularly when new) was to keep track of upgrades, both their progress and what level they were at.
after a short time I was used to using the keyboard keys for quick access to everything, so my eyes would basically never go to the bottom right build area, only watching the map and what was on my main screen. So it's just that little bit harder to keep tabs on what upgrade level you're at, or the progress through each. Simple HUD elements could easily compensate for that.
Having to find an obs with enough energy for pinging was sometimes frustrating too, and could be simplified by simple icons for each obs that has been built, so that it can be clicked wherever you are on the map for fast access to ping. I got around that by always binding them to squads, but then you can't really group your marines as effectively.
I guess the guts of it is dedicated hotkeys to get to each of the buildings that can access upgrades, so you still have good squad management capability and access to team development and assistance quickly
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having to find an obs with enough energy for pinging was sometimes frustrating too, and could be simplified by simple icons for each obs that has been built, so that it can be clicked wherever you are on the map for fast access to ping<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
idea : when a com clic on the obs, all obs in his screen flash 4 time so we can spot them. (same for all constructions)
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
On top of my head i can think of 2 things... A commander tutorial for both the TSA and the Kharaa. And progress bars to track whats upgrading and when it will be finished.
Have the team considered having a player list on the side of the screen for the commander, and 'desktop' like drag a drop. I am not entirely sure how the game is set up in terms of what the commander provides, but in terms of usability.
So:
- Player icon provides health/equip/ammo/location info - Hovering on player icon provides arrows on screen of their direction from you/circle on radar - Clicking moves you to the players location - Clicking on the player, then clicking a health icon restores +25 - Same for ammo - Upgrade/build suggestions (if you have built this, probably should build this - not sure if this is possible/easy?)
It would makes things a lot easier, especially when selecting a giving stuff to players.
- Player icon provides health/equip/ammo/location info - Hovering on player icon provides arrows on screen of their direction from you/circle on radar - Clicking moves you to the players location - Clicking on the player, then clicking a health icon restores +25 - Same for ammo - Upgrade/build suggestions (if you have built this, probably should build this - not sure if this is possible/easy?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we need square icon and when some1 is speaking the icon should flash yellow or orange
if we put the mouse over his icon we should have an arrow on our radar AND in our hud like in cs when we got shot.
for ammo and medpack : that would be easy a system like shift + clic and ctrl + clic or with the mouse : left clic + right clic while holding left clic and right clic + left clic while holding right clic
we should be able to put the mouse wheel up and down in the control we want them too. i dont know if ns2 will have more than a single view/angle for the com but for dropping a couple of medpack and ammo in a big fight with 5+ marines around its fast.
very simple idea that comes from starcraft 2 when you group multiple buildings together. 1. Buildings with energy: Say observatories. When you click scan, it will take the energy from the biulding with greater energy. You can keep scanning until all of the observatories are out of energy. 2. Buildings for research:Similarly if you had 2 armories selected. If you selected ammo upgrade, then selected armour it would upgrade ammo on the first armory and armor on the second. 3. Buildings of different types: Say you select a TF, Armory and Obs. You would see small icons down the bottom showing all the buildings selected. It would pick the first functional building. Ie, Armory. So you can do your upgrades. Then clicking tab would select the observatory so you can scan beacon. Escape deselects all and resets your build icons in the bottom right.
A tutorial mode so people can practice commander outside multiplayer. Even if there are no bots, just a chance to play around with the options and see how stuff works.
I don't agree that the commander should have powers to punish marines. This isn't a real army with strict discipline and if people are getting punished by the commander they are not going to fall into line in most cases - they will start acting up or ragequit. If someone is really annoying they should be votekicked by the team. When they dont do as told just explain to them nicely rather than put them in box or whatever.
It would be useful if there was a clear way for marines to understand what the commander wants. If they don't follow a command in a timely way, maybe there can be some reminder that the commander can trigger that will flash up on screen.
Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but here I go...
One thing that REALLY bothered me in NS1 was the commander could/would NEVER keep up with the demands on the marines spawning. My skills at fighting fast moving skulks and fade are pretty pathetic and I find myself with a kill death ration of maybe 1 to 5 just about every round I have ever played. Because of this, I find myself being left out of the game, while everyone else has jet packs and upgraded weapons, I'll have to walk my ass across the map (by myself) only to die shooting at a skulk along the way with a level 1 weapon... I know the game is fast passed but it seems like If there was some sort of station that allowed you to get the upgrades yourself rather than waiting on a commander that never pays attention to the one guy spawning over and over.
Anyway, that's my only problem. perhaps some sort of LUA script can be deployed that makes a real armory available to the players.
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?
<i>First time I stepped into the commander chair was quite a good experience, even though I lost the game (due to very bad players on my team). </i>
What do you love and/or hate about commanding?
<i>I love the overview that a normal grunt never has. I also like building safe places for my team to recover or defend. What I do not like, is the fact that I'm completely dependent on the skill level of my team. I can come up with great tactis, like surrounding the enemy with 2 squads but still get shred to pieces because they were simply bad players.</i>
Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?
<i>I do avoid commanding because I prefer the shooter experience over the strategy one. I prefer to see, what cheesy tactics other commanders come up with. The atmosphere is simply better when you are just a normal marine trying to survive. If I go commander, I don't get to see the Kharaa head on (and those new models look really beautiful). </i>
<b>What</b> types of features would you like to see added or removed?
<i>I would definitely like to see more options for the commander to interact, maybe controlling smaller scout drones that can attack/scout an area. Of course those scouting units should cost nothing (otherwise some commanders would stop caring about their team), shoudln't be a real threat, but can be an annoyance and small support for the real units. They could possibly auto spawn at the starting locations on set intervals.</i>
2 things from NS need to change, where Commanding is concerned, and only 1 can be fixed by technical means:
1. Some way of making sure that marines who dont follow orders cant get equipment (Although the potential for grief here is massive. What if you follow orders but vocally disagree? Arsey commander could ruin the game. Taking a player out of play is not a mechanic I want to see, either.)
2. The elitism in a large proportion of the NS playerbase, whereby if you as commander dont build what your l33t pr0 team tells you to, in the exact order they tell you to, you get ejected. There's a set build list that these elitists subscribe to and anything else is heresy. There's no variation, no experimentation. This needs to change.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My relationship with commanding the marines is an odd one. I enjoy it and would have done it frequently if I'd ever gotten good at it, but my specialty was Gorging and, when necessary, team leading for the Aliens. At our LANs I was always filling this role because no one else I knew was worth a damn at it; and in online games I generally avoided the command chair out of courtesy due to my inexperience.
That said, the few times I did play around with it I had good fun. I've always focused on the strategic side of NS, and if I still had the local support for regular NS1 LANs would doubtlessly have branched into Marine Commander as my next logical area of expertise.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the effect he has on the battlefield. Playing against or under different commanders, even with the same team, is an entirely different experience.
I love the fact that the marines are almost totally dependent on him while the aliens don't even have a direct analogue, yet the game remains fairly balanced. It really adds an interesting dynamic.
I hate how he can spam medpacks from the <strike>sky</strike> nanites.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See answer one. Simple inexperience, too frequently required on the alien team for them to even have a chance (when playing with friends).
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
I managed to play commander for a few games so far.
Some frustrations I had while using the interface:
1) I couldn't easily med/ammo pack spam. Intermittently the selected item I had would dissapear after I had dropped it, instead of just staying med/ammo (or letting me drop more)
2) I don't think the 'goto next mac/drifter idle' button works properly
3) People said 'meds meds!' over voice com and I had no idea where they were
We need a way for players to call for meds/ammo/"I need your attention com" commands (eg, to drop a CC/hive). I see some quick chat commands in there but didn't get to see it working on the commander's end.
Really need a simple way for a player to request the commander's attention/their location; and a way for the commander to jump to them immediately.
4) I got frustrated when MACs and other AI things started to not do what I asked (build or weld) but just stood there instead
5) Its confusing when I don't know why a power node is offline. It would be good to have overlay icons on each power node / hive area.
It would also be good to find out quickly why an area is out of power - if its because a powernode 3 rooms back is offline, can the commander map view show this some how? Maybe overlay powerlines in green/red or something like that. It's not fun trying to figure that out, its confusing.
6) Keyboard shortcuts on the commander UI do not work 100%; sometimes pressing a keybind does nothing or corrupts the commander menu, you need to use your mouse instead
Thanks for you post Plasma it was really helpful when i was doing UI mock up that i posted up, I had a lot of the same issues as you when playing commander. Hopefully the devs take a look at what i did and get some ideas, hopefully in the end the UI is intuitive and efficient.
The very first time i stepped on command chair it was like honey. I went "woah! is this ###### really implemented to this game?" I never commanded, i avoided it the best i could for a very obvious reason. Command chair had the usual "routine" with equipment, advances etc. which i never mastered. So it goes without saying the times i tried it out i was being raged at and being shout for being a noob. I did not know what to build in what order and i was ejected for commanding chair. I always thought that the whole idea of command chair was rocking, it is a shame i never got to use it properly. Please avoid this problem of happening again, all i am asking here is more casual friendly system to it. I cannot say anything of the comm's features since i dont know any of them
As an edit, the reason i was talking in past because i referred to Natural selection 1
Waypoints given by the commander should translate into a neat, simple and non-cluttering line drawn on the minimap. This would massively aid newcomers by offering them a quick A to B line to follow rather than a time-consuming analysis of the map for place names and further calculation of the best route. Basically, maps would become much more quick and valuable on-the-fly tools to players from all skill-levels. Coordination and teamwork would be easier with visual cues where a group of marines in room A are told to go to room B but don't know whether to go via path X or Y. The line would mark the quickest route for them to unanimously follow.
Issues would arise when giving orders to marines from more varied locations though as the quickest route might mean taking separate pathways when the commander would rather a slower approach with more marines/aliens. Similarly, a commander might rather the field-players take a safer (rather than quicker) route or perhaps go via an important location of interest.
To remedy both of these potential issues, implement a ctrl+waypoint function where the commander can click multiple areas to build a more detailed route. This would be a useful function anyway.
Lastly, make the 'waylines' toggable. Once a player has the wayline, he/she should be able to remove it if he feels that the wayline is adding to clutter or if he simply wants to ignore it.
I can't stress enough how useful this would be as a commander and field-player even in higher levels of play. It brings everyone on to the same page visually and leaves no room for debate. It decreases verbal traffic too which is hugely important. The time spent debating the route and organising the stragglers can be spent keeping quiet or making more detailed and specific calls.
Hey guys, I bought the game 2 days ago, never played natural selection 1, hadn't seen any gameplay videos (just the trailers and the one where you were playing around with the visual effects).
So I kinda had an idea of what to do, and I could figure out how to log on to the commander chair(deck thingy).
First impressions: it was okay, kinda like an rts... oh hey, this is like an rts.
Second Impressions: I don't really like rts games that much, and unless theyre really sleek, or really good, I avoid rts games.
Final thoughts: The entire interface needs an overhaul (sorry), And please, no random fans coming and and telling me it's beta, it will get better. It won't get better unless we players of the game suggest changes to make it better.
So, here is my (long) suggestion:
First up, make the upgrades you do affect everything it should affect. For example, if I upgrade an extractor to be 33% more efficient, it upgrades all extractors, and any new extractor you build, it is research is it not?
Second, the upgrade system needs an overhaul to be all displayed on a single screen. Here is a mockup in paint of what it could look like.(I won't actually use too many upgrade names, as I don't know many of them). <img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14178839/upgrades.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So, as you can see, it clearly lays out what needs to be done, what you have access to, and what you are doing now. And that is only the upgrades menu.
The ARMORY is red because you don't have an armory yet (and have tier 2, that's not right...).
NEXT CHANGE: controlling the battlefield.
I don't know if you have squads set up yet, but prolly don't.
But a much more straight forward command system could work like this:
The commander drops objective markers in points of the map, and adds in custom text (or has preselect options, such as Attack Here, Build Turret Here, Capture etc). And then the commander can also post objective messages out to the whole team, or select squads. For example: MAIN BASE UNDER ATTACK, DEFEND IT. Or: We need to capture Central.
So marines will be able to see the objectives that they need to do, and go about completing them as they see fit. This method should allow the commander to "set and forget" orders, so he/she doesn't get bombarded with "MARINE NEEDS ORDERS" messages.
THIRD and possibly final change:
When I enter the command station, it would be cool if instead of jumping me to an above the map perspective, I actually saw the inside of the command station, on my left would be an upgrade menu. On my right MAC control (yes, I want to be able to take control of MACs in first person). and in the front(where the login screen is: have a view of the battlefield with either cameras, or the standard over the top perspective where all I do is give orders.
If you need anything cleared up, just ask, and I'll answer, if you don't like my formatting, say so, and I may correct it. Thanks all, I hope this game will be super good, and super balanced when it is fully released.
I noticed the responsiveness when using the HUD as a commander (with hotkeys) is not what I expected. If I am to spawn medpacks really fast I use E and S in rapid succession but it seems I always have to wait after pressing E to change the tab. I don't know if this is intended or what (maybe server-sided for some reason?) but I think it'd be easier to assist the players when needed if the hotkeys + HUD is faster.
Also, I noticed that sometimes (I don't remember how/when) I have some object selected and then somehow the HUD menus are changed (but I have not selected another unit so the same unit is selected) I press the same unit to get back to the unit's HUD controls it doesn't work because the HUD controls only seem to change if the unit selected isn't already selected.
People seem a little worried that new players cannot learn the Comm very easily or get flamed out of the chair before they can really get to grips with it.
I suppose in later builds when time permits a basic scenario map could be built which has a number of AI marines in your base which you can issue orders to and command to build things. If we look at the MAC's we already have an AI which can be adapted to create that so time will be reduced in its creation and allow the newbie commander to take as long as they need.
In most RTS's this sort of scenario is accompanied by a voice message which provides them with a number of objectives and the way they can go about achieving them. Something as simple as this could be used to help them learn all they really need to know culminating in ordering their marines to attack a hive location and effectively quell their first (AI) alien Uprising.
Pretty much every RTS franchise has done this before, and obviously can be done for the aliens as well.
I mean I remember loading bots on NS1 building a huge marine base and then swapping to aliens to tear it all down. Worked for me ^^
I have a few tweaks I'd like to see.. Some of them may already have been mentioned.
- Block mini-map click-to-move-camera if the button-down event didn't happen in the mini-map zone. (I regularly try to select some marines, my mouse end down in the mini-map and suddenly I'm at a totally different place) - When multiple marines is selected, they all show the same HP. (I select a group, they all show 100% hp, then I select them solo, and can see one has 30%, one 80%, one 100%) - I'd like to have small avatars in the bottom of the UI for every selected unit - to give an alternative way of watching HP and knowing what you have selected. (I also imagine grouping some guys to a key, so I easily can press "1" to select the group/squad, and check out how they're doing without moving the camera there). Like Warcraft3 I guess.
I don't have very much experience playing as a commander in NS2, but from my first impressions on the top of my head:
It's not easy to know what you have selected. Some times I have selected a marine putting preassure on a hive area, then quickly macroing back to base to build a new structure, but instead giving the marine a move order(at least that is that i think happens, because a "ping" appears on the ground instead of the building - then disappears. After that i can build).
When you have marines selected and hover over a structure or area there should be a HUD next to the cursor telling you what the default command would be if I were to click at that spot. Even better would be to have a sort of radial menu appear when you click an area, the default action showing up in the center and relevant optional commands appear around the center. The command won't be sent untill you click a second time on the command you want to send.
At some point in some games I couldn't drop or build anything. I am not sure why this happened. It could be because I had something selected but since I couldn't tell what I had selected I can't be 100% sure this is why. It would let me select the items, such as a medpack from the build menu, it would let me hover it over the ground in the area I wanted to place it, but when I tried to place the medpack it just disappeared. This happened to buildings as well. Logging out of the com chair and in again solved this, so I assume it was because I had something selected somewhere and logging out reset that selection.
That's all I have for now, but I'm sure more things will pop up once I get to play around with it some more.
Comments
Or let commanders spend res to put marines in timeout boxes in the marine base where they can't do anything for a minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
ACK! NO!
Player-to-Player Negative feedback not worky. Let game mechanics do that (you walk into the enemy hive alone, you are about to die to 5 Skulks). For everything else, use positive reinforcement.
Ask yourselves questions like:
What are some of your most memorable experiences (good or bad)? For example - what was it like the first time you stepped into the command chair?
What do you love and/or hate about commanding?
Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?
Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?
Anything goes. Let's hear your thoughts!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Simply add the ability to prevent marines from picking up equipment if they don't listen to the comm. Noting is more irritating then being a comm and having a bunch of rines sit in base demanding gear without actually putting any effort into the game. The same players wo think they have skill because they sit in hive with shotty and camp skulks as they spawn.
Also a container type spawn point where the marine spawns into a container picks from assorted gear left in the container by the commander then exits.
Destroying it would destroy any weapons/gear inside as well
Setting up player voting to "boundry" one or more rines into a defined base area if they ignore waypoints, constantly feed, block line of sight firing or other things to get teammates killed
a little bubble extending from com chairs /pg so they are unable to go past the boundry line.
after a short time I was used to using the keyboard keys for quick access to everything, so my eyes would basically never go to the bottom right build area, only watching the map and what was on my main screen. So it's just that little bit harder to keep tabs on what upgrade level you're at, or the progress through each. Simple HUD elements could easily compensate for that.
Having to find an obs with enough energy for pinging was sometimes frustrating too, and could be simplified by simple icons for each obs that has been built, so that it can be clicked wherever you are on the map for fast access to ping. I got around that by always binding them to squads, but then you can't really group your marines as effectively.
I guess the guts of it is dedicated hotkeys to get to each of the buildings that can access upgrades, so you still have good squad management capability and access to team development and assistance quickly
idea : when a com clic on the obs, all obs in his screen flash 4 time so we can spot them. (same for all constructions)
A commander tutorial for both the TSA and the Kharaa.
And progress bars to track whats upgrading and when it will be finished.
So:
- Player icon provides health/equip/ammo/location info
- Hovering on player icon provides arrows on screen of their direction from you/circle on radar
- Clicking moves you to the players location
- Clicking on the player, then clicking a health icon restores +25
- Same for ammo
- Upgrade/build suggestions (if you have built this, probably should build this - not sure if this is possible/easy?)
It would makes things a lot easier, especially when selecting a giving stuff to players.
- Player icon provides health/equip/ammo/location info
- Hovering on player icon provides arrows on screen of their direction from you/circle on radar
- Clicking moves you to the players location
- Clicking on the player, then clicking a health icon restores +25
- Same for ammo
- Upgrade/build suggestions (if you have built this, probably should build this - not sure if this is possible/easy?)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
we need square icon and when some1 is speaking the icon should flash yellow or orange
if we put the mouse over his icon we should have an arrow on our radar AND in our hud like in cs when we got shot.
for ammo and medpack : that would be easy a system like shift + clic and ctrl + clic or with the mouse : left clic + right clic while holding left clic and right clic + left clic while holding right clic
we should be able to put the mouse wheel up and down in the control we want them too. i dont know if ns2 will have more than a single view/angle for the com but for dropping a couple of medpack and ammo in a big fight with 5+ marines around its fast.
1. Buildings with energy: Say observatories. When you click scan, it will take the energy from the biulding with greater energy. You can keep scanning until all of the observatories are out of energy.
2. Buildings for research:Similarly if you had 2 armories selected. If you selected ammo upgrade, then selected armour it would upgrade ammo on the first armory and armor on the second.
3. Buildings of different types: Say you select a TF, Armory and Obs. You would see small icons down the bottom showing all the buildings selected. It would pick the first functional building. Ie, Armory. So you can do your upgrades. Then clicking tab would select the observatory so you can scan beacon. Escape deselects all and resets your build icons in the bottom right.
I don't agree that the commander should have powers to punish marines. This isn't a real army with strict discipline and if people are getting punished by the commander they are not going to fall into line in most cases - they will start acting up or ragequit. If someone is really annoying they should be votekicked by the team. When they dont do as told just explain to them nicely rather than put them in box or whatever.
It would be useful if there was a clear way for marines to understand what the commander wants. If they don't follow a command in a timely way, maybe there can be some reminder that the commander can trigger that will flash up on screen.
perhaps an upgrade to existing Comm chair. Giving them manual control of turrets would be cool I think.
Either that or at the discretion of the players, splitting the comm responsibilities between base/resource management and people management.
One thing that REALLY bothered me in NS1 was the commander could/would NEVER keep up with the demands on the marines spawning. My skills at fighting fast moving skulks and fade are pretty pathetic and I find myself with a kill death ration of maybe 1 to 5 just about every round I have ever played. Because of this, I find myself being left out of the game, while everyone else has jet packs and upgraded weapons, I'll have to walk my ass across the map (by myself) only to die shooting at a skulk along the way with a level 1 weapon... I know the game is fast passed but it seems like If there was some sort of station that allowed you to get the upgrades yourself rather than waiting on a commander that never pays attention to the one guy spawning over and over.
Anyway, that's my only problem. perhaps some sort of LUA script can be deployed that makes a real armory available to the players.
Also, it wasn't uncommon in many of my LAN games to just spam sets of items in Marine Start so I didn't have to bother with it for the next 5 deaths.
<i>First time I stepped into the commander chair was quite a good experience, even though I lost the game (due to very bad players on my team).
</i>
What do you love and/or hate about commanding?
<i>I love the overview that a normal grunt never has. I also like building safe places for my team to recover or defend.
What I do not like, is the fact that I'm completely dependent on the skill level of my team. I can come up with great tactis, like surrounding the enemy with 2 squads but still get shred to pieces because they were simply bad players.</i>
Maybe you avoid commanding and if so, why?
<i>I do avoid commanding because I prefer the shooter experience over the strategy one. I prefer to see, what cheesy tactics other commanders come up with. The atmosphere is simply better when you are just a normal marine trying to survive. If I go commander, I don't get to see the Kharaa head on (and those new models look really beautiful).
</i>
<b>What</b> types of features would you like to see added or removed?
<i>I would definitely like to see more options for the commander to interact, maybe controlling smaller scout drones that can attack/scout an area. Of course those scouting units should cost nothing (otherwise some commanders would stop caring about their team), shoudln't be a real threat, but can be an annoyance and small support for the real units. They could possibly auto spawn at the starting locations on set intervals.</i>
1. Some way of making sure that marines who dont follow orders cant get equipment (Although the potential for grief here is massive. What if you follow orders but vocally disagree? Arsey commander could ruin the game. Taking a player out of play is not a mechanic I want to see, either.)
2. The elitism in a large proportion of the NS playerbase, whereby if you as commander dont build what your l33t pr0 team tells you to, in the exact order they tell you to, you get ejected. There's a set build list that these elitists subscribe to and anything else is heresy. There's no variation, no experimentation. This needs to change.
My relationship with commanding the marines is an odd one. I enjoy it and would have done it frequently if I'd ever gotten good at it, but my specialty was Gorging and, when necessary, team leading for the Aliens. At our LANs I was always filling this role because no one else I knew was worth a damn at it; and in online games I generally avoided the command chair out of courtesy due to my inexperience.
That said, the few times I did play around with it I had good fun. I've always focused on the strategic side of NS, and if I still had the local support for regular NS1 LANs would doubtlessly have branched into Marine Commander as my next logical area of expertise.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you love and/or hate about commanding?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the effect he has on the battlefield. Playing against or under different commanders, even with the same team, is an entirely different experience.
I love the fact that the marines are almost totally dependent on him while the aliens don't even have a direct analogue, yet the game remains fairly balanced. It really adds an interesting dynamic.
I hate how he can spam medpacks from the <strike>sky</strike> nanites.
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe you <i>avoid </i>commanding and if so, why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See answer one. Simple inexperience, too frequently required on the alien team for them to even have a chance (when playing with friends).
<!--quoteo(post=1643281:date=Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM:name=JJJ1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JJJ1 @ Aug 11 2007, 07:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1643281"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why types of features would you like to see added or removed?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See: <a href='index.php?showtopic=110545'>Strategic Differentiation</a>
thanks for sharing information..
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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hello guys..
thanks for sharing information..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who are you ? u seem not an admin... dont open old topics without a good reason plz
Here are some ideas I'll just post in from the thread in general discussion.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111133&view=findpost&p=1799824" target="_blank">New Commander Learning Experience</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111133&view=findpost&p=1799828" target="_blank">Commander & Player Relationship</a>
<img src="http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8764/techtree2.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Some frustrations I had while using the interface:
1) I couldn't easily med/ammo pack spam. Intermittently the selected item I had would dissapear after I had dropped it, instead of just staying med/ammo (or letting me drop more)
2) I don't think the 'goto next mac/drifter idle' button works properly
3) People said 'meds meds!' over voice com and I had no idea where they were
We need a way for players to call for meds/ammo/"I need your attention com" commands (eg, to drop a CC/hive). I see some quick chat commands in there but didn't get to see it working on the commander's end.
Really need a simple way for a player to request the commander's attention/their location; and a way for the commander to jump to them immediately.
4) I got frustrated when MACs and other AI things started to not do what I asked (build or weld) but just stood there instead
5) Its confusing when I don't know why a power node is offline. It would be good to have overlay icons on each power node / hive area.
It would also be good to find out quickly why an area is out of power - if its because a powernode 3 rooms back is offline, can the commander map view show this some how? Maybe overlay powerlines in green/red or something like that. It's not fun trying to figure that out, its confusing.
6) Keyboard shortcuts on the commander UI do not work 100%; sometimes pressing a keybind does nothing or corrupts the commander menu, you need to use your mouse instead
when issueing a move order, you hold shift or double click the order button(whatever works)
and this issues an URGENT MOVE order, which means that marines should stop doing whatever they are doing and move instantly to the new area
I never commanded, i avoided it the best i could for a very obvious reason. Command chair had the usual "routine" with equipment, advances etc. which i never mastered. So it goes without saying the times i tried it out i was being raged at and being shout for being a noob. I did not know what to build in what order and i was ejected for commanding chair.
I always thought that the whole idea of command chair was rocking, it is a shame i never got to use it properly.
Please avoid this problem of happening again, all i am asking here is more casual friendly system to it.
I cannot say anything of the comm's features since i dont know any of them
As an edit, the reason i was talking in past because i referred to Natural selection 1
Issues would arise when giving orders to marines from more varied locations though as the quickest route might mean taking separate pathways when the commander would rather a slower approach with more marines/aliens. Similarly, a commander might rather the field-players take a safer (rather than quicker) route or perhaps go via an important location of interest.
To remedy both of these potential issues, implement a ctrl+waypoint function where the commander can click multiple areas to build a more detailed route. This would be a useful function anyway.
Lastly, make the 'waylines' toggable. Once a player has the wayline, he/she should be able to remove it if he feels that the wayline is adding to clutter or if he simply wants to ignore it.
I can't stress enough how useful this would be as a commander and field-player even in higher levels of play. It brings everyone on to the same page visually and leaves no room for debate. It decreases verbal traffic too which is hugely important. The time spent debating the route and organising the stragglers can be spent keeping quiet or making more detailed and specific calls.
So I kinda had an idea of what to do, and I could figure out how to log on to the commander chair(deck thingy).
First impressions: it was okay, kinda like an rts... oh hey, this is like an rts.
Second Impressions: I don't really like rts games that much, and unless theyre really sleek, or really good, I avoid rts games.
Final thoughts: The entire interface needs an overhaul (sorry), And please, no random fans coming and and telling me it's beta, it will get better. It won't get better unless we players of the game suggest changes to make it better.
So, here is my (long) suggestion:
First up, make the upgrades you do affect everything it should affect. For example, if I upgrade an extractor to be 33% more efficient, it upgrades all extractors, and any new extractor you build, it is research is it not?
Second, the upgrade system needs an overhaul to be all displayed on a single screen. Here is a mockup in paint of what it could look like.(I won't actually use too many upgrade names, as I don't know many of them).
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14178839/upgrades.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
So, as you can see, it clearly lays out what needs to be done, what you have access to, and what you are doing now. And that is only the upgrades menu.
The ARMORY is red because you don't have an armory yet (and have tier 2, that's not right...).
NEXT CHANGE: controlling the battlefield.
I don't know if you have squads set up yet, but prolly don't.
But a much more straight forward command system could work like this:
The commander drops objective markers in points of the map, and adds in custom text (or has preselect options, such as Attack Here, Build Turret Here, Capture etc).
And then the commander can also post objective messages out to the whole team, or select squads. For example: MAIN BASE UNDER ATTACK, DEFEND IT. Or: We need to capture Central.
So marines will be able to see the objectives that they need to do, and go about completing them as they see fit. This method should allow the commander to "set and forget" orders, so he/she doesn't get bombarded with "MARINE NEEDS ORDERS" messages.
THIRD and possibly final change:
When I enter the command station, it would be cool if instead of jumping me to an above the map perspective, I actually saw the inside of the command station, on my left would be an upgrade menu. On my right MAC control (yes, I want to be able to take control of MACs in first person). and in the front(where the login screen is: have a view of the battlefield with either cameras, or the standard over the top perspective where all I do is give orders.
If you need anything cleared up, just ask, and I'll answer, if you don't like my formatting, say so, and I may correct it. Thanks all, I hope this game will be super good, and super balanced when it is fully released.
Also, I noticed that sometimes (I don't remember how/when) I have some object selected and then somehow the HUD menus are changed (but I have not selected another unit so the same unit is selected) I press the same unit to get back to the unit's HUD controls it doesn't work because the HUD controls only seem to change if the unit selected isn't already selected.
I suppose in later builds when time permits a basic scenario map could be built which has a number of AI marines in your base which you can issue orders to and command to build things.
If we look at the MAC's we already have an AI which can be adapted to create that so time will be reduced in its creation and allow the newbie commander to take as long as they need.
In most RTS's this sort of scenario is accompanied by a voice message which provides them with a number of objectives and the way they can go about achieving them. Something as simple as this could be used to help them learn all they really need to know culminating in ordering their marines to attack a hive location and effectively quell their first (AI) alien Uprising.
Pretty much every RTS franchise has done this before, and obviously can be done for the aliens as well.
I mean I remember loading bots on NS1 building a huge marine base and then swapping to aliens to tear it all down. Worked for me ^^
- Block mini-map click-to-move-camera if the button-down event didn't happen in the mini-map zone. (I regularly try to select some marines, my mouse end down in the mini-map and suddenly I'm at a totally different place)
- When multiple marines is selected, they all show the same HP. (I select a group, they all show 100% hp, then I select them solo, and can see one has 30%, one 80%, one 100%)
- I'd like to have small avatars in the bottom of the UI for every selected unit - to give an alternative way of watching HP and knowing what you have selected. (I also imagine grouping some guys to a key, so I easily can press "1" to select the group/squad, and check out how they're doing without moving the camera there). Like Warcraft3 I guess.
It's not easy to know what you have selected. Some times I have selected a marine putting preassure on a hive area, then quickly macroing back to base to build a new structure, but instead giving the marine a move order(at least that is that i think happens, because a "ping" appears on the ground instead of the building - then disappears. After that i can build).
When you have marines selected and hover over a structure or area there should be a HUD next to the cursor telling you what the default command would be if I were to click at that spot.
Even better would be to have a sort of radial menu appear when you click an area, the default action showing up in the center and relevant optional commands appear around the center. The command won't be sent untill you click a second time on the command you want to send.
At some point in some games I couldn't drop or build anything. I am not sure why this happened. It could be because I had something selected but since I couldn't tell what I had selected I can't be 100% sure this is why.
It would let me select the items, such as a medpack from the build menu, it would let me hover it over the ground in the area I wanted to place it, but when I tried to place the medpack it just disappeared. This happened to buildings as well.
Logging out of the com chair and in again solved this, so I assume it was because I had something selected somewhere and logging out reset that selection.
That's all I have for now, but I'm sure more things will pop up once I get to play around with it some more.