Lerk spore attack is really strong. It kills marines and is a visual disruption too.
The lerk does not look like a creature that would go about biting other species 3 times its size (humans). Compared to the other aliens it doesnt have super huge sharp teeth or a big jaw for chewing human flesh.
<!--quoteo(post=1810486:date=Nov 25 2010, 08:42 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Nov 25 2010, 08:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810486"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerk spore attack is really strong. It kills marines and is a visual disruption too.
The lerk does not look like a creature that would go about biting other species 3 times its size (humans). Compared to the other aliens it doesnt have super huge sharp teeth or a big jaw for chewing human flesh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get that...
But I disagree fundementally with your arguement for basing gameplay on how a character LOOKS.
Who cares if it looks like its incapable of doing X. Gameplay comes first. Every time.
And I would say that the spore attack is too strong. Again think of the FUN. I don't see how its fun to sit back and spam a cloud of gas to get kills.
With the spore attack I would suggest changing it so that the gass doesnt shoot as a projectile but instead appears at the location of the Lerk.
That would make it primarly an area denial/retreat weapon as well as a useful weapon for lerks who are willing to fly in and attack and then retreat fast.
It would make for more exciting/varied and dynamic gameplay imo.
Lerk should be long ranged. Blink is actually improved. Use skulks with leap, hydras, lerk spikes/spores and perhaps even fades to kill jetpacks...
This is just a joke. It needs balancing. But the lerk is fine as it is. It sucked that they removed the spikes in NS1 and gave it bite. Made no sense at all. Lerk being the ranged alien is perfect.
I would endorse a shotgun like strong spike attack as default and maybe low damage rapid fire on the zoom if (this seemingly pointless ability) is actually deemed necessary?
The lerk was a sniper in ns1. When it's spikes got removed, almost everyone was complaining. Now it has its spikes back and you start complaining? Forget it, buddy. You make yourself unhappy.
BTW: The only melee thing a lerk should be able to is to slam into a marine's face at high velocity.
<!--quoteo(post=1810489:date=Nov 25 2010, 08:48 PM:name=Darkomicron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Darkomicron @ Nov 25 2010, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810489"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerk should be long ranged. Blink is actually improved. Use skulks with leap, hydras, lerk spikes/spores and perhaps even fades to kill jetpacks...
This is just a joke. It needs balancing. But the lerk is fine as it is. It sucked that they removed the spikes in NS1 and gave it bite. Made no sense at all. Lerk being the ranged alien is perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats a joke to you is not to me.
Just because you're happy with the changes that does not make you the only voice of reason.
I do get that you like it the way it is. I'm just trying to find a way everyone can be happy.
I'm not saying remove the long range attacks. I just don't see why we cant both have our way. :p
<!--quoteo(post=1810488:date=Nov 25 2010, 09:47 PM:name=GingerNinja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GingerNinja @ Nov 25 2010, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810488"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With the spore attack I would suggest changing it so that the gass doesnt shoot as a projectile but instead appears at the location of the Lerk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1810491:date=Nov 25 2010, 08:48 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Nov 25 2010, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would endorse a shotgun like strong spike attack as default and maybe low damage rapid fire on the zoom if (this seemingly pointless ability) is actually deemed necessary?
Basically swap wep1 and wep2 around!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I quite like this idea..
I dunno, I dont see why they can't just add back bite and keep everything else as it is now though. Then people get their sniper lerk AND people like me get to enjoy swooping down and chomping again.
I maintain that it's a bit silly to have the lerk flying about all over the level just so he can sit at a distance and snipe. Kinda a downer on the whole feeling of: "Great I made it to lerk - now I get to fly everywhere!!"
Flying = exciting and fast paced. Sniping not so much.
<!--quoteo(post=1810517:date=Nov 25 2010, 09:37 PM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Nov 25 2010, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810517"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think spikes should hurt more when you're flying at marines, that would encourage not sitting on things sniping ALL the time. heh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Having spikes do more damage when in mid air would actually encourage some interesting gameplay...
Just an idea. And I realise that it doesn't make sense...
But then we are talking about an alien that shoots gas and has a forever re-generating supply of spikes. :p
i'm uncomfortable with mirroring marines... no need for lerk shotgun. how about an alt-fire for lerk spores that launches a mine that either a) slows a marine a la web or b) adds "mass" to the marine such that jetpacks are unable to get much lift and can't get airborne?
<!--quoteo(post=1810427:date=Nov 25 2010, 06:58 PM:name=Impatient21)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Impatient21 @ Nov 25 2010, 06:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810427"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I miss being able to fly around as a lerk and terrorizing marines, something that will be impossible without the lerk having a melee attack to his name. I mean, he's got massive jaws, why shouldn't he be able to bite? Before, the lerk was generally the only response to the JPs besides the fades who will be useless with what they've done to Blink. Bring back the Lerk's melee attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hah, the Lerk rocks. Earlier we were playing junction or something and since we'd fought off the skulk rush with a relocation of the CC, the damn lerks started to swarm and gas the new CC site which was quite enclosed and as a result, owned us completely, couldnt even see the skulks through the gas, needless to say we lost. Without the lerks it would of just been a few skulks which we could have dealt with. So, in short, lerks rock. Though not at close range, but were they ever? Yes I miss the bite but they kick ass still. I got sniped as a marine by one, totally surprised me!
I say rip the bony wings off the lurk,nix jet-packs and give the gorge spikes and spores so he can be useful once again.
Lerks should be able to bite and a fade should have a anti-gravity upgrade, gorges should be able to build all structures. But this is not NS1, and is a mute complaint and i'm sure in the end all of the balance issues will be...well....balanced.
For now i think it works for the purpose of testing the network and lurk is nasty with the spikes but if you watch any of NS2HD's videos you can see after the 2nd hive/command center goes up the balance (if any) is way fubared. So maybe we wait just a bit longer to see what happens. If the end is not what you want then make a mod to attach skulk bite to slot # and change heal spray to flamethrower (with damage reversed of course).
Reminder: CLOSED BETA was not released because it was ready for it. But given the situation it was an acceptable decision. Nothing is ready for public yet so please keep that in mind. they could pull anything from the game and replace with anything at this point. The moral of the story: Keep banging pots on the floor and mom will surely take it away.
The lerk is FAR from useless. I got a superiour position near the auxilary node on Rockdown and any marine or mac that came through there was sniped easily, Making it impossible for them to reach the eastern hive that my team set up or repair the node there. I was also indestructible because the comm set a crag right next to that position hidden from view. I like them to keep the spikes, its a long range attack which makes it unique. Almost all of the other classes are melee based (Skulk, Fade, Onos).
Me too, its very gassy and you the sound it makes it good as well. I like that already in this game you can associate a sound with the action attached, like biting nodes and buildings, slashing harvesters, sentry fire, grenades being shot and the sound fades make. That crackling 'pop' followed by a few stabs, death and then another 'pop' make the game really fun to play, even if it is abit laggy and lopsided in favour of marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1810523:date=Nov 25 2010, 05:50 PM:name=GingerNinja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GingerNinja @ Nov 25 2010, 05:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding a web type attack to lerk could be interesting. Would tie in nicely with the sniper thing PLUS be very interesting versus jetpacks.
Maybe overpowered...
Keep the ideas coming methinks - it's allways good to explore these posibilities. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah idk how you would balance it. i don't think it would be overpowered vs jp's since in a dogfight it would come down to skill and whether a lerk could anticipate a jp's landing spot, and wouldn't really affect jp's in open rooms... but could make narrow hallways deadly
I think the flying model needs improvement, needs to be smoother. Flying whilst spiking should increase damage (as suggested) as this could be explained by the fact that the lerks speed is + onto the spikes speed.
I think the best aspect of lerk play is flying an spiking, and I have gotten some great kills this way. It is a lot easier on tram, but rockdown is difficult, because there is really only one area (marine base) to effectively do it at the moment.
Lerk is a great unit at the moment, spores really push the marines back and they can take out buildings from range. Especially useful for hitting power nodes whilst being out of sight.
I think lerks should fire lazers out their eyes! They're orange, aren't they? They should also carry a massive AVP for picking off terrorists at bomb spot B
<!--quoteo(post=1810534:date=Nov 25 2010, 11:22 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Nov 25 2010, 11:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810534"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the flying model needs improvement, needs to be smoother. Flying whilst spiking should increase damage (as suggested) as this could be explained by the fact that the lerks speed is + onto the spikes speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The problem is that you can't dodge while targetting a marine. On NS1 numbers it takes roughly a half mag of LMG _or_ a pistol mag to kill a lerk (and those are rounded upwards quite a bit from the theoretical damage potential).
The shotgun spikes are suggested because they're burst damage and you won't have to fly straight long enough to get peppered by that lmg or pistol.
At first I would reduce the damage the Lerk deals and remove the sniping ability. then I would let it in the beta and wait a while. if it's still inbalanced and ppl don't like it, replace it with the bite
<!--quoteo(post=1810443:date=Nov 25 2010, 03:30 PM:name=GingerNinja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GingerNinja @ Nov 25 2010, 03:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have a decent argument for bring back lerk bite:
It was FUN. A lot of fun...
I rly miss swooping down from the rafters and noming on some unsuspecting marine....
I mean giving it a bite is hardly overpowered in my mind. Especially if you just made it a weaker bite than the skulk.
If anything, giving a long ranged weapon to a class that can escape combat so easily is the overpowered thing! It makes it so the lerk is basically never in danger. No danger - no fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1810551:date=Nov 26 2010, 12:07 AM:name=Bobby is going home)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bobby is going home @ Nov 26 2010, 12:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810551"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The bite of a human is one of the most dangerous due to the bacteria cocktail in his mouth.
I want a bite attack for Marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1810446:date=Nov 25 2010, 08:35 PM:name=BarerRudeROC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BarerRudeROC @ Nov 25 2010, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810446"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lerk is by far the most powerful/useful unit in NS2<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
Not strong enough to get fully involved like the fade. Not as disposable as the skulk (hence the 'run' in 'hit and run').
Now its just a sit and snipe class. That also had the really cool ability to fly, which in my mind is completely wasted in its current form.
The lerk does not look like a creature that would go about biting other species 3 times its size (humans). Compared to the other aliens it doesnt have super huge sharp teeth or a big jaw for chewing human flesh.
<img src="http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3536/78664069.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
The lerk does not look like a creature that would go about biting other species 3 times its size (humans). Compared to the other aliens it doesnt have super huge sharp teeth or a big jaw for chewing human flesh.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get that...
But I disagree fundementally with your arguement for basing gameplay on how a character LOOKS.
Who cares if it looks like its incapable of doing X. Gameplay comes first. Every time.
And I would say that the spore attack is too strong. Again think of the FUN. I don't see how its fun to sit back and spam a cloud of gas to get kills.
With the spore attack I would suggest changing it so that the gass doesnt shoot as a projectile but instead appears at the location of the Lerk.
That would make it primarly an area denial/retreat weapon as well as a useful weapon for lerks who are willing to fly in and attack and then retreat fast.
It would make for more exciting/varied and dynamic gameplay imo.
Blink is actually improved.
Use skulks with leap, hydras, lerk spikes/spores and perhaps even fades to kill jetpacks...
This is just a joke. It needs balancing. But the lerk is fine as it is. It sucked that they removed the spikes in NS1 and gave it bite. Made no sense at all. Lerk being the ranged alien is perfect.
Basically swap wep1 and wep2 around!
Now it has its spikes back and you start complaining? Forget it, buddy. You make yourself unhappy.
BTW: The only melee thing a lerk should be able to is to slam into a marine's face at high velocity.
Blink is actually improved.
Use skulks with leap, hydras, lerk spikes/spores and perhaps even fades to kill jetpacks...
This is just a joke. It needs balancing. But the lerk is fine as it is. It sucked that they removed the spikes in NS1 and gave it bite. Made no sense at all. Lerk being the ranged alien is perfect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whats a joke to you is not to me.
Just because you're happy with the changes that does not make you the only voice of reason.
I do get that you like it the way it is. I'm just trying to find a way everyone can be happy.
I'm not saying remove the long range attacks. I just don't see why we cant both have our way. :p
Isn't that called farting? :/
If yours do that much damage - thats your problem.
;)
Basically swap wep1 and wep2 around!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I quite like this idea..
I dunno, I dont see why they can't just add back bite and keep everything else as it is now though. Then people get their sniper lerk AND people like me get to enjoy swooping down and chomping again.
I maintain that it's a bit silly to have the lerk flying about all over the level just so he can sit at a distance and snipe. Kinda a downer on the whole feeling of: "Great I made it to lerk - now I get to fly everywhere!!"
Flying = exciting and fast paced. Sniping not so much.
Having spikes do more damage when in mid air would actually encourage some interesting gameplay...
Just an idea. And I realise that it doesn't make sense...
But then we are talking about an alien that shoots gas and has a forever re-generating supply of spikes. :p
Hah, the Lerk rocks. Earlier we were playing junction or something and since we'd fought off the skulk rush with a relocation of the CC, the damn lerks started to swarm and gas the new CC site which was quite enclosed and as a result, owned us completely, couldnt even see the skulks through the gas, needless to say we lost. Without the lerks it would of just been a few skulks which we could have dealt with.
So, in short, lerks rock. Though not at close range, but were they ever? Yes I miss the bite but they kick ass still. I got sniped as a marine by one, totally surprised me!
Maybe overpowered...
Keep the ideas coming methinks - it's allways good to explore these posibilities. :)
Lerks should be able to bite and a fade should have a anti-gravity upgrade, gorges should be able to build all structures. But this is not NS1, and is a mute complaint and i'm sure in the end all of the balance issues will be...well....balanced.
For now i think it works for the purpose of testing the network and lurk is nasty with the spikes but if you watch any of NS2HD's videos you can see after the 2nd hive/command center goes up the balance (if any) is way fubared. So maybe we wait just a bit longer to see what happens. If the end is not what you want then make a mod to attach skulk bite to slot # and change heal spray to flamethrower (with damage reversed of course).
Reminder: CLOSED BETA was not released because it was ready for it. But given the situation it was an acceptable decision. Nothing is ready for public yet so please keep that in mind. they could pull anything from the game and replace with anything at this point. The moral of the story: Keep banging pots on the floor and mom will surely take it away.
Maybe overpowered...
Keep the ideas coming methinks - it's allways good to explore these posibilities. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah idk how you would balance it. i don't think it would be overpowered vs jp's since in a dogfight it would come down to skill and whether a lerk could anticipate a jp's landing spot, and wouldn't really affect jp's in open rooms... but could make narrow hallways deadly
hang from the ceiling and snipe rines etc
or is that out now?
I think the best aspect of lerk play is flying an spiking, and I have gotten some great kills this way. It is a lot easier on tram, but rockdown is difficult, because there is really only one area (marine base) to effectively do it at the moment.
Lerk is a great unit at the moment, spores really push the marines back and they can take out buildings from range. Especially useful for hitting power nodes whilst being out of sight.
They should also carry a massive AVP for picking off terrorists at bomb spot B
The problem is that you can't dodge while targetting a marine. On NS1 numbers it takes roughly a half mag of LMG _or_ a pistol mag to kill a lerk (and those are rounded upwards quite a bit from the theoretical damage potential).
The shotgun spikes are suggested because they're burst damage and you won't have to fly straight long enough to get peppered by that lmg or pistol.
I want a bite attack for Marines.
then I would let it in the beta and wait a while.
if it's still inbalanced and ppl don't like it, replace it with the bite
It was FUN. A lot of fun...
I rly miss swooping down from the rafters and noming on some unsuspecting marine....
I mean giving it a bite is hardly overpowered in my mind. Especially if you just made it a weaker bite than the skulk.
If anything, giving a long ranged weapon to a class that can escape combat so easily is the overpowered thing! It makes it so the lerk is basically never in danger. No danger - no fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I completely agree with this!
I want a bite attack for Marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
qft