Guys this is no gameplay element. The models are made by artists. It's their work and their choice. Plus, I like the fade as it is. I'd ###### my pants meeting him in reallife. Don't tell me this beast is cute.
Edit: looked at the model again. This is so full of detail. And the eyes look like he is an old, experienced murderer. Those glowing concepts you presented have no personality at all. It's like "bad - glowy eyes". Aliens are not Satan.
<!--quoteo(post=1823324:date=Jan 11 2011, 01:55 PM:name=countbasie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (countbasie @ Jan 11 2011, 01:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guys this is no gameplay element. The models are made by artists. It's their work and their choice. Plus, I like the fade as it is. I'd ###### my pants meeting him in reallife. Don't tell me this beast is cute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you read the thread the artist in question posted that he wasnt completly satisfied with the fade model. that's why we are voicing our opinions.
<!--quoteo(post=1823325:date=Jan 11 2011, 06:58 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jan 11 2011, 06:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823325"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you read the thread the artist in question posted that he wasnt completly satisfied with the fade model. that's why we are voicing our opinions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
its the eyes. epic's concept of changing the eyes alone is something i immediately noticed for every one of the models. go visit the original NS concept art. hell even the original NS "evil eye" logo or the one at the top of this very forum for the onos demonstrates what these people are saying is missing.. and thats the eyes. the overall concept, proportion, colors, matching theme, are GREAT! but the eyes... for each model (Save for the gorge, who is allowed to look silly and cartoony) need to be slightly tweaked or re done to have any sort of real threat felt. the absense of pupils may also help as shown in the ns1 art or epic's mock up.. *shrugs*
I agree, the eyes should look more evil and predatory.
On the other hand, the eyes currently have a sort of intelligence in their look; but I still think that (or at least the way it is currently) works to detriment.
If you can pull off uncannily intelligent, animalistic, threatening and predatory, all in one... please do so.
We understand the desire to see the pupils removed from the kharaa eyes, however it was a deliberate decision to leave them in. While glowing yellow eyes with no pupils may look more scary, it also makes the aliens much more demonic looking. We are trying to avoid making the aliens the "evil" creatures, and the marines the good guys. The aliens are just animals trying to adapt and survive, and having pupils moves them away from the evil demon look into more of something you would find in nature.
Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1823362:date=Jan 11 2011, 01:09 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 11 2011, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sweet. thanks for the reply, Cory. you could leave the pupils in but still modify the "shape" of the eye? plenty of creatures in nature obviously have pupils and have scary mutha truckin eyes still (cats, snakes, and wolves anyone?)
or are you guys trying to stray away from "Scary space alien" look entirely?? if so... may i ask why the change in design? (its just because i dont know many healthy people who want to shoot down cute friendly alien types. :)
I prefer scary monsters over cute animals in a tactical first person shooter - for sure.
fade somehow has the worst eyes, they are too round and the pupils are too big I guess. also very important, the ingame color is too bright (brighter then concept / rendered images). just my opinion.
edit: NS1 had a horrificly scary fade, and was very succesfull at that.
I agree...the eyes need to look more sinister and the skull should be sharber IMO....but most of all those front teeth have to go IMO he looks like Nosferatu XD <a href="http://robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com/1922/03/nosferatu11.jpg" target="_blank">http://robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com/...nosferatu11.jpg</a>
I LOVE the dimmed, translucent and large pupils the fade currently has. Makes him look murderous and inhuman without going overboard with glowing demon-eyes. not that youre ever going to see that in-action, but still
I agree about the onos eye however, it's plain boring and too human-like
<!--quoteo(post=1823362:date=Jan 11 2011, 10:09 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 11 2011, 10:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We understand the desire to see the pupils removed from the kharaa eyes, however it was a deliberate decision to leave them in. While glowing yellow eyes with no pupils may look more scary, it also makes the aliens much more demonic looking. We are trying to avoid making the aliens the "evil" creatures, and the marines the good guys. The aliens are just animals trying to adapt and survive, and having pupils moves them away from the evil demon look into more of something you would find in nature.
Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand your thought on impartial sides (with no good/evil), but it's really not that action-oriented to be alien politically correct. The two sides haven't met to suddenly be diplomatic, it's an all-out war, and the emotions should reflect that.
And just to be praising a little too: Love your artwork Cory, the colours and environments are amazing. =)
<!--quoteo(post=1823362:date=Jan 11 2011, 10:09 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 11 2011, 10:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[...]especially on the Onos[...].<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Make them horizontal xD <a href="http://www.google.de/images?hl=de&rlz=&q=goat%20pupil&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi" target="_blank"><img src="http://thingsthatarerectangles.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/3234566200_159bedcb6d.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>*click*
It's not the pupil, its the shape of the eye that should be changed <img src="http://thegamersjournal.com/fps/pc/naturalselection/logo_ns.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> THIS is how the fade eye should look ;)
urinalcakeCan't work a sound cardUnited StatesJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7799Members
Posh. It's a great model, that is intensely more consistent with the rest of the models than the Kharaa in NS1. I think a great job was done.
However, as far as the face goes, uhh, yeah, maybe more straightforward narrow eyes and a longer snout would give him a bit of a more sinister feel, he does sort of feel like a puppy on his hind legs at the moment.
<!--quoteo(post=1823399:date=Jan 12 2011, 07:26 AM:name=Zeno)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeno @ Jan 12 2011, 07:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823399"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://thegamersjournal.com/fps/pc/naturalselection/logo_ns.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> THIS is how the fade eye should look ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
<!--quoteo(post=1823362:date=Jan 11 2011, 03:09 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 11 2011, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We understand the desire to see the pupils removed from the kharaa eyes, however it was a deliberate decision to leave them in. While glowing yellow eyes with no pupils may look more scary, it also makes the aliens much more demonic looking. We are trying to avoid making the aliens the "evil" creatures, and the marines the good guys. The aliens are just animals trying to adapt and survive, and having pupils moves them away from the evil demon look into more of something you would find in nature.
Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanting the kharaa to be an instinctual species rather than demonic creatures with an "evil" motive is understandable, but it will take more than them having pupils for an average person to think they're <i>not</i> the "bad guys". At first glance, most people would undoubtedly make the conclusion that the marines are the "good guys" for the simple fact that they're humans (I did, anyway). How demonic or non-threatening the aliens look is irrelevant because you can't identify with the kharaa in any way. It's the same in any game where the conflict involves two visually distinct forces that differ anatomically.
For example, between the Horde and Alliance in World of Warcraft, most would assume the Alliance are the "good guys" based off of numerous visual cues and themes they are given (also look at what the two names imply at face value). The Alliance has castles, humans, clean environments, and ride non-threatening creatures like horses and rams. The Horde have orcs, the undead, sinister tribal like cities, and ride aggressive or evil looking creatures like raptors or undead demonic horses. But playing either side will eventually lead you to uncover that neither side is necessarily good (or more importantly, that the Horde <i>aren't</i> bad...except for the Undead). Both do bad as well as good, but you only find that out through action (seeing the Horde do good/Alliance do bad) and dialog/storytelling. Natural Selection has neither as it's action is player driven and it's storytelling/dialog is non-existent (unless you count back story which is optional as the player has to seek it out).
Personally you'd have an easier time making the marines <i>not</i> the good guys than you'd have trying to show that the kharaa are <i>not</i> the bad guys. I think giving the marines a slightly sinister or less than admirable underbelly is a great idea, but again, there's no evidence in the game what so ever to support that and so they pretty much win the "good guy" award by default in my opinion. And you have plenty of cool avenues to take the marines in that direction too, today's corporations and governments give writers plenty of material to make the "evil/incompetent/greedy government/corporation" angle.
Having said that, I think the kharaa should look as cool as possible, like have no pupils :) And if you're really worried about the kharaa looking too demonic, why did you give them horns? You'd be hard pressed to find a religious depiction of evil that doesn't involve the likes of horns or spikes, which the kharaa have.
I agree with everyone else though, the fade looks great with the exception of the face.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
<!--quoteo(post=1823456:date=Jan 11 2011, 08:12 PM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (doeseph @ Jan 11 2011, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823456"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You'd be hard pressed to find a religious depiction of evil that doesn't involve the likes of horns or spikes, which the kharaa have.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and lets not forget the hive alerts "your hive is under attack" .. that voice. doesnt sound like something i'd want to stumble on in the woods. sounds like a possessed soul. which is OK by me. :)
I think the only thing humanising the kharaa is going to do is attract the furry contingent. Marine players want to feel justified filling the kharaa with lead. Kharaa players want to feel badass while they tear marines apart. This is a combat game, there is no escaping that, it's about a war. In war, there has to be a bad guy, or why would you be fighting? IMHO, trying to make both sides good guys just makes for weak, ambiguous character design. You just can't all be good guys, so what to do?...
There's a lesson to be learned from Warhammer 40,000 here. There are no good guys. Every side is just as deluded, blood-hungry and out of their tree as the next. Even the "morally justified" races are only justified in their own twisted way. I'm positive this is done very much intentionally. It works off the idea that it's easier to make the player hate the enemy than love himself. You do NOT want soldiers questioning their justification in killing their enemy, it's bad in a real warzone, it's bad in a fantasy one.
Want my advice? Don't try to give the Kharaa some kind of humanity to draw sympathy from the player- Instead take away some of the marine's humanity, make them as morally questionable as the kharaa. Want people to empathise with the Kharaa? Make them feel good about killing marines and let the marines feel good about killing Kharaa. Shiny, fresh faced soldiers are boring and unbelievable anyway.
The reason I see the Kharaa as the vilian is because all the battlefields in NS1/2 are in Marine territory indicating that the Kharaa invaded them. If UWE makes some maps based around the Kharaa homeworld then it will give the game a more neutral feel.
<!--quoteo(post=1823557:date=Jan 12 2011, 07:33 AM:name=Kaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kaine @ Jan 12 2011, 07:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823557"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the only thing humanising the kharaa is going to do is attract the furry contingent. Marine players want to feel justified filling the kharaa with lead. Kharaa players want to feel badass while they tear marines apart. This is a combat game, there is no escaping that, it's about a war. In war, there has to be a bad guy, or why would you be fighting? IMHO, trying to make both sides good guys just makes for weak, ambiguous character design. You just can't all be good guys, so what to do?...
There's a lesson to be learned from Warhammer 40,000 here. There are no good guys. Every side is just as deluded, blood-hungry and out of their tree as the next. Even the "morally justified" races are only justified in their own twisted way. I'm positive this is done very much intentionally. It works off the idea that it's easier to make the player hate the enemy than love himself. You do NOT want soldiers questioning their justification in killing their enemy, it's bad in a real warzone, it's bad in a fantasy one.
Want my advice? Don't try to give the Kharaa some kind of humanity to draw sympathy from the player- Instead take away some of the marine's humanity, make them as morally questionable as the kharaa. Want people to empathise with the Kharaa? Make them feel good about killing marines and let the marines feel good about killing Kharaa. Shiny, fresh faced soldiers are boring and unbelievable anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! <u>Marines sound and look like sissies</u>, and theyre plain boring. Seriously, the voice commands sound like a cocky brat.
Although it might be too late in the development process to change them, it would be awesome to have more brutal and hardened marines. Give them more muscle, dents and marks in their armor as proof of earlier battles and change their voice, for example.
Think between gears of war and what we have now.
With horse-looking fades, sissy marines and bright, colorful environments, this game doesn't convey the grim feeling of war it should..
<!--quoteo(post=1823362:date=Jan 11 2011, 03:09 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 11 2011, 03:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823362"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We are trying to avoid making the aliens the "evil" creatures, and the marines the good guys. The aliens are just animals trying to adapt and survive, and having pupils moves them away from the evil demon look into more of something you would find in nature.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fwuh?
I don't want to condescend but perhaps this sounded more plausible on paper than it does in practice. Not only is xenophobia a huge part of human nature, but even amongst earth's animal kingdom a lot of people are afraid of anything that doesn't have fur and a cute face. Giving lizard-like aliens with claws, fangs, etc pupils isn't really doing them any favors in my humble opinion. It's human nature to believe that if something is killing humans (even something as friendly/cute looking as a dolphin), then it is typically regarded as the enemy; one step away from being "evil".
...and this is all without pointing out that since the dawn of television and film, non-humanoid aliens have almost always been portrayed as the enemy. It's ingrained in our collective consciousness.
I understand where you guys are coming from. I agree there is nothing intrinsically "evil" about a predatory animal. However, when humanity is on the menu even a killer bunny might as well have glowing pupil-less eyes (and is fair game for a holy hand grenade). In the context of a multi-player FPS, objectivity or sympathy is already off the table. The Kharaa being non-human man-eaters is just the nail in the coffin in any debate about who the "bad guys" are in NS2.
I think the shape of the head and the eyes makes the aliens look doofy. It is most noticable in the fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1823345:date=Jan 11 2011, 02:36 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 11 2011, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823345"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its the eyes. epic's concept of changing the eyes alone is something i immediately noticed for every one of the models. go visit the original NS concept art. hell even the original NS "evil eye" logo or the one at the top of this very forum for the onos demonstrates what these people are saying is missing.. and thats the eyes. the overall concept, proportion, colors, matching theme, are GREAT! but the eyes... for each model (Save for the gorge, who is allowed to look silly and cartoony) need to be slightly tweaked or re done to have any sort of real threat felt. the absense of pupils may also help as shown in the ns1 art or epic's mock up.. *shrugs*
The Fade model is <b>good</b>, real talk. The design isn't great but that's just nitpicking. The only thing i'd seriously suggest is that it wold look better with the 4 forward-facing mouth-fangs from the concept vs the 2 buckteeth.
Glowing pupil-less eyes would be far too cartoony for the NS2 art style.
Comments
Plus, I like the fade as it is. I'd ###### my pants meeting him in reallife. Don't tell me this beast is cute.
Edit: looked at the model again. This is so full of detail. And the eyes look like he is an old, experienced murderer. Those glowing concepts you presented have no personality at all. It's like "bad - glowy eyes". Aliens are not Satan.
Plus, I like the fade as it is. I'd ###### my pants meeting him in reallife. Don't tell me this beast is cute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you read the thread the artist in question posted that he wasnt completly satisfied with the fade model. that's why we are voicing our opinions.
Then I didn't say anything.
But I still like it.
go visit the original NS concept art. hell even the original NS "evil eye" logo or the one at the top of this very forum for the onos demonstrates what these people are saying is missing.. and thats the eyes. the overall concept, proportion, colors, matching theme, are GREAT! but the eyes... for each model (Save for the gorge, who is allowed to look silly and cartoony) need to be slightly tweaked or re done to have any sort of real threat felt.
the absense of pupils may also help as shown in the ns1 art or epic's mock up.. *shrugs*
example:
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/69njhx.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
On the other hand, the eyes currently have a sort of intelligence in their look; but I still think that (or at least the way it is currently) works to detriment.
If you can pull off uncannily intelligent, animalistic, threatening and predatory, all in one... please do so.
Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sweet.
thanks for the reply, Cory.
you could leave the pupils in but still modify the "shape" of the eye? plenty of creatures in nature obviously have pupils and have scary mutha truckin eyes still (cats, snakes, and wolves anyone?)
or are you guys trying to stray away from "Scary space alien" look entirely?? if so... may i ask why the change in design?
(its just because i dont know many healthy people who want to shoot down cute friendly alien types. :)
fade somehow has the worst eyes, they are too round and the pupils are too big I guess. also very important, the ingame color is too bright (brighter then concept / rendered images). just my opinion.
edit: NS1 had a horrificly scary fade, and was very succesfull at that.
he looks like Nosferatu XD
<a href="http://robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com/1922/03/nosferatu11.jpg" target="_blank">http://robsmovievault.files.wordpress.com/...nosferatu11.jpg</a>
I also don't like the fades feet. the legs look fine, its those feet look funny to me.
I agree about the onos eye however, it's plain boring and too human-like
Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand your thought on impartial sides (with no good/evil), but it's really not that action-oriented to be alien politically correct. The two sides haven't met to suddenly be diplomatic, it's an all-out war, and the emotions should reflect that.
And just to be praising a little too: Love your artwork Cory, the colours and environments are amazing. =)
Make them horizontal xD
<a href="http://www.google.de/images?hl=de&rlz=&q=goat%20pupil&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi" target="_blank"><img src="http://thingsthatarerectangles.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/3234566200_159bedcb6d.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>*click*
It's not the pupil, its the shape of the eye that should be changed
<img src="http://thegamersjournal.com/fps/pc/naturalselection/logo_ns.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
THIS is how the fade eye should look ;)
I think a great job was done.
However, as far as the face goes, uhh, yeah, maybe more straightforward narrow eyes and a longer snout would give him a bit of a more sinister feel, he does sort of feel like a puppy on his hind legs at the moment.
THIS is how the fade eye should look ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
Some of the pupils will probably get reworked a bit, however, especially on the Onos, but we aren't going to remove them completely.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wanting the kharaa to be an instinctual species rather than demonic creatures with an "evil" motive is understandable, but it will take more than them having pupils for an average person to think they're <i>not</i> the "bad guys". At first glance, most people would undoubtedly make the conclusion that the marines are the "good guys" for the simple fact that they're humans (I did, anyway). How demonic or non-threatening the aliens look is irrelevant because you can't identify with the kharaa in any way. It's the same in any game where the conflict involves two visually distinct forces that differ anatomically.
For example, between the Horde and Alliance in World of Warcraft, most would assume the Alliance are the "good guys" based off of numerous visual cues and themes they are given (also look at what the two names imply at face value). The Alliance has castles, humans, clean environments, and ride non-threatening creatures like horses and rams. The Horde have orcs, the undead, sinister tribal like cities, and ride aggressive or evil looking creatures like raptors or undead demonic horses. But playing either side will eventually lead you to uncover that neither side is necessarily good (or more importantly, that the Horde <i>aren't</i> bad...except for the Undead). Both do bad as well as good, but you only find that out through action (seeing the Horde do good/Alliance do bad) and dialog/storytelling. Natural Selection has neither as it's action is player driven and it's storytelling/dialog is non-existent (unless you count back story which is optional as the player has to seek it out).
Personally you'd have an easier time making the marines <i>not</i> the good guys than you'd have trying to show that the kharaa are <i>not</i> the bad guys. I think giving the marines a slightly sinister or less than admirable underbelly is a great idea, but again, there's no evidence in the game what so ever to support that and so they pretty much win the "good guy" award by default in my opinion. And you have plenty of cool avenues to take the marines in that direction too, today's corporations and governments give writers plenty of material to make the "evil/incompetent/greedy government/corporation" angle.
Having said that, I think the kharaa should look as cool as possible, like have no pupils :) And if you're really worried about the kharaa looking too demonic, why did you give them horns? You'd be hard pressed to find a religious depiction of evil that doesn't involve the likes of horns or spikes, which the kharaa have.
I agree with everyone else though, the fade looks great with the exception of the face.
and lets not forget the hive alerts "your hive is under attack" .. that voice. doesnt sound like something i'd want to stumble on in the woods. sounds like a possessed soul. which is OK by me. :)
There's a lesson to be learned from Warhammer 40,000 here. There are no good guys. Every side is just as deluded, blood-hungry and out of their tree as the next. Even the "morally justified" races are only justified in their own twisted way. I'm positive this is done very much intentionally. It works off the idea that it's easier to make the player hate the enemy than love himself. You do NOT want soldiers questioning their justification in killing their enemy, it's bad in a real warzone, it's bad in a fantasy one.
Want my advice? Don't try to give the Kharaa some kind of humanity to draw sympathy from the player- Instead take away some of the marine's humanity, make them as morally questionable as the kharaa. Want people to empathise with the Kharaa? Make them feel good about killing marines and let the marines feel good about killing Kharaa. Shiny, fresh faced soldiers are boring and unbelievable anyway.
There's a lesson to be learned from Warhammer 40,000 here. There are no good guys. Every side is just as deluded, blood-hungry and out of their tree as the next. Even the "morally justified" races are only justified in their own twisted way. I'm positive this is done very much intentionally. It works off the idea that it's easier to make the player hate the enemy than love himself. You do NOT want soldiers questioning their justification in killing their enemy, it's bad in a real warzone, it's bad in a fantasy one.
Want my advice? Don't try to give the Kharaa some kind of humanity to draw sympathy from the player- Instead take away some of the marine's humanity, make them as morally questionable as the kharaa. Want people to empathise with the Kharaa? Make them feel good about killing marines and let the marines feel good about killing Kharaa. Shiny, fresh faced soldiers are boring and unbelievable anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes! <u>Marines sound and look like sissies</u>, and theyre plain boring. Seriously, the voice commands sound like a cocky brat.
Although it might be too late in the development process to change them, it would be awesome to have more brutal and hardened marines. Give them more muscle, dents and marks in their armor as proof of earlier battles and change their voice, for example.
Think between gears of war and what we have now.
With horse-looking fades, sissy marines and bright, colorful environments, this game doesn't convey the grim feeling of war it should..
Fwuh?
I don't want to condescend but perhaps this sounded more plausible on paper than it does in practice. Not only is xenophobia a huge part of human nature, but even amongst earth's animal kingdom a lot of people are afraid of anything that doesn't have fur and a cute face. Giving lizard-like aliens with claws, fangs, etc pupils isn't really doing them any favors in my humble opinion. It's human nature to believe that if something is killing humans (even something as friendly/cute looking as a dolphin), then it is typically regarded as the enemy; one step away from being "evil".
...and this is all without pointing out that since the dawn of television and film, non-humanoid aliens have almost always been portrayed as the enemy. It's ingrained in our collective consciousness.
I understand where you guys are coming from. I agree there is nothing intrinsically "evil" about a predatory animal. However, when humanity is on the menu even a killer bunny might as well have glowing pupil-less eyes (and is fair game for a holy hand grenade). In the context of a multi-player FPS, objectivity or sympathy is already off the table. The Kharaa being non-human man-eaters is just the nail in the coffin in any debate about who the "bad guys" are in NS2.
<!--quoteo(post=1823345:date=Jan 11 2011, 02:36 PM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Jan 11 2011, 02:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1823345"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->its the eyes. epic's concept of changing the eyes alone is something i immediately noticed for every one of the models.
go visit the original NS concept art. hell even the original NS "evil eye" logo or the one at the top of this very forum for the onos demonstrates what these people are saying is missing.. and thats the eyes. the overall concept, proportion, colors, matching theme, are GREAT! but the eyes... for each model (Save for the gorge, who is allowed to look silly and cartoony) need to be slightly tweaked or re done to have any sort of real threat felt.
the absense of pupils may also help as shown in the ns1 art or epic's mock up.. *shrugs*
example:
<img src="http://i56.tinypic.com/69njhx.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really mind the pupils, but the fade especially needs to look more predatory and aggressive.
Glowing pupil-less eyes would be far too cartoony for the NS2 art style.