<!--quoteo(post=1843914:date=May 4 2011, 08:43 AM:name=wackoisgod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wackoisgod @ May 4 2011, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when you say wont build do you mean then you give them an order to build they don't ? Or they start building and its not actually doing anything ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's the same issue as in 175, I think it's the collision coming into play. They either collide with the buildings on the path, or with the actual building they're trying to build/repair, at least in the case of MACs sent to build a previously dropped building (especially visible with the empty built CC, if a MAC approaches it from the "front", it will collide with it instead of repairing it). Sending multiple MACs to build will also cause them to collide with each other and stop building unless you carefully micromanage them (happens especially when actually moving in position to build, when they tend to go back and approach again and knock into each other).
<!--quoteo(post=1843935:date=May 4 2011, 09:01 AM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ May 4 2011, 09:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You basically have to go shotty and weed out the Hydras early on. Though, it is pretty time consuming dealing with Hydras using Rifle and Pistol with that small hitbox.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hydras have hitbox that's big enough but everyone expects it to be in the flowers (where it is, barely). The big one is at the base of hydra and unsuspecting players don't aim for it. But I found that out only after I got pissed off enough to launch model viewer.
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1843970:date=May 4 2011, 09:40 AM:name=MOOtant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MOOtant @ May 4 2011, 09:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hydras have hitbox that's big enough but everyone expects it to be in the flowers (where it is, barely). The big one is at the base of hydra and unsuspecting players don't aim for it. But I found that out only after I got pissed off enough to launch model viewer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try getting a server admin to turn on traces. It wil show you exactly when and where you things things. "trace all" in server console (on a listen server, you have to do "cheats 1", "trace all" "cheats 0" - the trace command is only active in cheat/dev mode, but the traces don't need cheat to work).
- no trailing FT effects - FT reload animation gets interrupted if "attack" is still held and it plays "out of ammo" animation, until the reload is done "in the background" - if you drop the pistol you can't pick it up again (rifle & ft work) - if you have no pistol, have primary slot selected, and try to select secondary slot (pistol) game crashes
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1843977:date=May 4 2011, 02:43 PM:name=PersianImm0rtal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PersianImm0rtal @ May 4 2011, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843977"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Holy ######, you should be playing on high at 60 FPS with that kind of specs...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed and is instead getting performance MUCH lower then mine...
spyware/faulty hardware/bad OC could be the cause here.
PC development, receiving flak from big rig peeps when the problem could still be on their end :P
[edit] Emphasis on "could" I'm not saying it is certain :)
I read Charlie's most recent notes involving the infestation -- I think it's pretty exciting. I believe the scale and implementation of the dynamic environments will be what NS2 is known for and separate it from other FPS/RTS type hybrids. I really hope they go all out on this and hit and it outta the park.
Small engine or implementation quirks aside, I think things will shape up very quickly. The team seems to have been really bustin' ***. You've been doing a great job keeping us all informed and up-to-date on the work as well. I really hope you find that engine programmer soon to expedite the work that Max has laid out before him.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1843914:date=May 3 2011, 10:43 PM:name=wackoisgod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wackoisgod @ May 3 2011, 10:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843914"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->when you say wont build do you mean then you give them an order to build they don't ? Or they start building and its not actually doing anything ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The drifters go to the location, but when given an order to build a harvester/hive, they just sit there. It seems that if the drifter does this once, it will always be bugged and you have to keep creating drifters at the hive until one happens to work. I also had one case where a drifter just stopped in the middle of a hallway for no reason. I couldn't move it at all for the rest of the game, and it apparently could not be killed by the marines.
MACs have similar issues. They won't repair something that is 1 foot away when given a command, and also refuse to build stuff.
The new rockdown part is nice. But is that all or just a "beta" of the new rockdown. (the left side on rockdown is a bit narrow that should be reworked. ^^)
A big problem is that marines can jump down in the new part but dont die. They have to type kill in console because there is no way back.
<!--quoteo(post=1844006:date=May 4 2011, 12:33 PM:name=Quovatis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quovatis @ May 4 2011, 12:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844006"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The drifters go to the location, but when given an order to build a harvester/hive, they just sit there. It seems that if the drifter does this once, it will always be bugged and you have to keep creating drifters at the hive until one happens to work. I also had one case where a drifter just stopped in the middle of a hallway for no reason. I couldn't move it at all for the rest of the game, and it apparently could not be killed by the marines.
MACs have similar issues. They won't repair something that is 1 foot away when given a command, and also refuse to build stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I had an issue similar to this. Some of the time, selecting other structures and then clicking the Drifter/MAC again would fix it.
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
edited May 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1843941:date=May 4 2011, 03:08 AM:name=Enceladus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Enceladus @ May 4 2011, 03:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843941"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, it's quite funny.. Few patches ago, hydra building was a problem, since it slowed down the server too much, and everybody was like "fix the hydras, we can't use them". Now they can be used, and it turns around "Fix the hydras, they are everywhere!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, we we're complaining about how they were everything and we couldn't use them without tanking the server (but people still did). UWE only solved half of the problem.
I simply fail to understand why you spend any time adding new features, when the primary problem with the current state of the game is that it is not playable.
When I look for servers with players on, I usually see 1-2 servers with players on, in the entire world. Having up to 16 people in the world testing the game is ofcourse better than not having anybody test it at all, but I imagine you thousands of people have bought the game and would be potentially playing it, if it was in a playable state.
The game really doesn't need a lot of features in order to run. If it was possible to play a simple game of one alien race and one weapon for the marine on a single map with no interactable objects except the CC and the hive, and the game only had the shoot and the bite sound, the game could still be enjoyable and fun to play.
So far the one huge issue with the game, that prevents it from being playable is that it still runs at an extremely low framerate, once you encounter an enemy (Even with all settings set to low).
Having worked as a software developer for more than 10 years, I completely understand that fully optimizing the game isn't a priority until the required features are complete. Customers don't expect a beta product to be fully optimized before the final release, but they usually expect to be able to use the product for <i>some </i>of the tasks that the product was intended to do.
Therefore I implore you: Please make fixing the extremely low framerate your main priority until the framerate reaches a level where aiming is possible with an enemy in your vicinity.
Unfortunatly they have only a select few C++-programmers and are a bit overstocked with Lua-monkeys possibly. That's not to say they shouldn't be adding\fixing gameplay-elements, but updates to the beta-public should probably be synced with Engine-optimizations, rather than Lua-improvements (though improvements in the Lua-script can certainly result in a higher FPS too).
I think the problem is mostly with the servers not be able to keep up. Which is mostly because it isn't a mulitcore so the core gets maxed and the ticks of the server drop to 5 instead of being at 30. It would be a lot nicer if everyone wasn't studdering around with only a few people on. Before you say anything, no the servers dont suck.
Yes, the next few sprints REALLY need to be based on networking and server performance. This game is multiplayer-only and as such your netcode is going to make or break you. This NEEDS to become a priority ASAP.
<!--quoteo(post=1844012:date=May 4 2011, 05:23 PM:name=L34D)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L34D @ May 4 2011, 05:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844012"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The new rockdown part is nice. But is that all or just a "beta" of the new rockdown. (the left side on rockdown is a bit narrow that should be reworked. ^^)
A big problem is that marines can jump down in the new part but dont die. They have to type kill in console because there is no way back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The new version of Rockdown is still a work in progress. Other areas of the map are being reworked as well, mainly to open them up so they are less tight, namely the marine expansion to the east.
We also know about marines being able to jump down and not get back out again, and that has been addressed as well.
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I do like the new Rockdown area. The lighting just needs to be a tad brighter there. Also, I'd recommend putting the resource node closer to the tech point...at least with a line-of-sight, as that tech point is not going to get much use when there isn't a nearby res node (no relocation). And I'm sure you guys know the mini-map is messed up with the new addition. It doesn't quite overlay correctly and many things on the top and left side of the map are off the minimap.
<!--quoteo(post=1844022:date=May 4 2011, 10:41 AM:name=Laggin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Laggin @ May 4 2011, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844022"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I simply fail to understand why you spend any time adding new features, when the primary problem with the current state of the game is that it is not playable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is indeed playable. I play it every day to some extent. What do you mean by playable? What kind of hardware do you have? Playable is a very relative term. That being said, we totally understand your concern and all I can say is we have been focused on improving performance for a long time and are focused on performance currently.
These things take time and certain people focus on certain aspects. I wish it was just a single inner loop that could be optimized but it isn't sadly. We will get there. 1.0 will run much, much better than the current beta (which again, I would definitely call playable).
<!--quoteo(post=1844023:date=May 4 2011, 10:46 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ May 4 2011, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->updates to the beta-public should probably be synced with Engine-optimizations, rather than Lua-improvements (though improvements in the Lua-script can certainly result in a higher FPS too).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a chaotic mix between engine and Lua optimizations. These are interdependent and not easy to separate most of the time. It is convenient to throw around terms like "engine" and "Lua-script" but in reality, it is just a bunch of code. The code knows no difference between engine and Lua. An obvious improvement in one piece of code can have a negative effect on another piece of code. All factors need to be considered and more importantly, tested. We are working on ways to automate this process since we lack a dedicated team to do it for us.
<!--quoteo(post=1844028:date=May 4 2011, 10:53 AM:name=Bricksolid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bricksolid @ May 4 2011, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844028"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the problem is mostly with the servers not be able to keep up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For some people this is true. If your client gets a decent framerate and the server you are on is running off a 5 year old laptop, you may perceive this as a problem with the game on your computer. In other cases the client is to blame. We are working on improving both, right now Max is focused on client side occlusion improvements that will make the framerate steadier and probably faster and I am going to spend some time on server optimizations related to infestation soon.
The battle rages on.
<!--quoteo(post=1844031:date=May 4 2011, 11:01 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 4 2011, 11:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, the next few sprints REALLY need to be based on networking and server performance. This game is multiplayer-only and as such your netcode is going to make or break you. This NEEDS to become a priority ASAP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I can assure you is that the next few sprints will be based on improving what needs to be improved based on many confusing and fuzzy factors. It is a delicate balance this game development stuff. Not one thing can be the single focus I am afraid. If we were to spend all our time and energy on networking we may well find out in 2 months that networking was fine, it didn't need to be worked on at all. The problem was really in the player's perception of the time incoherencies inherent in networking a game and a simple tweak to gameplay or art would fix the problem. Einstein didn't consider multiplayer games when he limited the speed of light I am afraid :(
We decide what to work on based on a lovely mix of metrics, gut instincts, luck, and experience.
As some band I can't remember the name of said: "It's getting better all the time"
<!--quoteo(post=1843902:date=May 4 2011, 05:55 AM:name=PoNeH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PoNeH @ May 4 2011, 05:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yet another build that I cannot test due to averaging below 15 FPS. Thanks!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
System specs? Game settings? Resolution? Not sure what you could possibly be running short of a laptop that would get 15 fps. With a Radeon 4850, Core2 E8400, settings max, res at 1680x1050, I get 30-40fps on tram, 25fps dips during combat. On rockdown you can add 5-10fps to that on average. My computer is 3 years old. You should be running alright unless you're using a 5+ year old PC.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=korupt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korupt)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CPU: i7 920 GPU: GTX 295 OC RAM: 6gbDDR HDD:500 VelociRaptor hard drive Steam game's +NS2 FPS 15- 28 Max settings Fps Drops down to 11 when near hive's etc./?\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What resolution? Rockdown, tram? I'd say it's strange if you're running 1680x1050 or lower, since your specs are generally better than mine. I'd venture a guess and say that your SLI profile isn't working, so your GTX 295 is likely running just one GPU core, at those clock speeds, it's roughly equivalent to a GTX 275-280, which puts it around the same league as what I'm running.
What's the CPU speed, stock or OC? I overclocked my Core2 by 26% and got almost a 20% increase in FPS. If you're running stock, you could potentially see what a mild OC would do you for you, if you know how.
That's good. The server REALLY needs an overhaul. Dropping down into the single tick range really isn't acceptable. Even the mighty 156 struggles like crazy to keep up about halfway though the game. You guys really need to execute flawlessly in this area. It really is your key to success regardless of whether you see it or not. The #1 thing that will KILL this game is networking or server-side lag. People get infuriated when they die because the server screwed them.
<!--quoteo(post=1844086:date=May 4 2011, 09:51 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ May 4 2011, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As some band I can't remember the name of said: "It's getting better all the time"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Skulks are still broken. It's nearly impossible to hit a marine. Plus I can't see any fades. I can't see my own arms when I'm a fade, my own outline when setting up a teleport, or other players that are Fades. They're all invisible to me.
<!--quoteo(post=1844101:date=May 4 2011, 03:05 PM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 4 2011, 03:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844101"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulks are still broken. It's nearly impossible to hit a marine. Plus I can't see any fades. I can't see my own arms when I'm a fade, my own outline when setting up a teleport, or other players that are Fades. They're all invisible to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, sounds like something may have downloaded incorrectly. Can you verify the game cache in steam?
I just thought of something else. Can you post your log if this happens again? Any lines related to a "vertex buffer" specifically. Thanks.
<!--quoteo(post=1844086:date=May 4 2011, 09:51 PM:name=MurphyIdiot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MurphyIdiot @ May 4 2011, 09:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It is indeed playable. I play it every day to some extent. What do you mean by playable? What kind of hardware do you have? Playable is a very relative term. That being said, we totally understand your concern and all I can say is we have been focused on improving performance for a long time and are focused on performance currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Playable = stable, fast, fun and balanced.
Stable - relatively stable lately. 175 crashed a lot.
Fast - 40-60 FPS without any drops below when I'm just walking through very boring indoor map. 30 server ticks. 20 server snapshots sent. You're talking about optimization but I haven't seen anyone attempting to host 32 slot server. If UWE can't host big playtests then how about testing with tickrate 100?
Flamer particle lowers FPS as much as it always did.
Fun - arbitrary but that's not my problem. :P The obvious part is that custom maps aren't really downloadable and there has been no attempt to put onos, siege cannon, JP and HA in the game yet. No one knows what bugs will get triggered and what gameplay will work out.
Balanced - That builds up on everything above. If fade moves around the map like drunk, blinking particle covers the screen so much that you can't see where you landed and efficiency is worse than worst walker fade in NS1 vs silly marine that learned to jump around then I don't call it balanced. After some time it also gets frustrating. One part of it is probably a bug and another is how low combo of tickrate/snapshots/FPS fades really get in average situation.
I could overclock memory and/or CPU to get stable 30+ FPS (and not just average) but why? I'd rather play NS1.
There's huge difference since few months ago already and I mostly believe that after 6-12 months from now it'll be playable. But it isn't yet.
I think playability comes from the ability of NS2 to function on server hardware that isn't the most top end and server systems that may share their resources with other games.
I've never had a good playable game, although it's probably down to the fact NS2 as of yet, doesn't have a version optimised for a standard server admin. You'd need to be running it on it's own, on a dedi i7 box or similar to get anything playable.
Comments
If it's the same issue as in 175, I think it's the collision coming into play. They either collide with the buildings on the path, or with the actual building they're trying to build/repair, at least in the case of MACs sent to build a previously dropped building (especially visible with the empty built CC, if a MAC approaches it from the "front", it will collide with it instead of repairing it). Sending multiple MACs to build will also cause them to collide with each other and stop building unless you carefully micromanage them (happens especially when actually moving in position to build, when they tend to go back and approach again and knock into each other).
Hydras have hitbox that's big enough but everyone expects it to be in the flowers (where it is, barely). The big one is at the base of hydra and unsuspecting players don't aim for it. But I found that out only after I got pissed off enough to launch model viewer.
Try getting a server admin to turn on traces. It wil show you exactly when and where you things things. "trace all" in server console (on a listen server, you have to do "cheats 1", "trace all" "cheats 0" - the trace command is only active in cheat/dev mode, but the traces don't need cheat to work).
- FT reload animation gets interrupted if "attack" is still held and it plays "out of ammo" animation, until the reload is done "in the background"
- if you drop the pistol you can't pick it up again (rifle & ft work)
- if you have no pistol, have primary slot selected, and try to select secondary slot (pistol) game crashes
GPU: GTX 295 OC
RAM: 6gbDDR
HDD:500 VelociRaptor hard drive Steam game's +NS2
FPS 15- 28
Max settings
Fps Drops down to 11 when near hive's etc./?\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holy ######, you should be playing on high at 60 FPS with that kind of specs...
Indeed and is instead getting performance MUCH lower then mine...
spyware/faulty hardware/bad OC could be the cause here.
PC development, receiving flak from big rig peeps when the problem could still be on their end :P
[edit]
Emphasis on "could" I'm not saying it is certain :)
Small engine or implementation quirks aside, I think things will shape up very quickly. The team seems to have been really bustin' ***. You've been doing a great job keeping us all informed and up-to-date on the work as well. I really hope you find that engine programmer soon to expedite the work that Max has laid out before him.
The drifters go to the location, but when given an order to build a harvester/hive, they just sit there. It seems that if the drifter does this once, it will always be bugged and you have to keep creating drifters at the hive until one happens to work. I also had one case where a drifter just stopped in the middle of a hallway for no reason. I couldn't move it at all for the rest of the game, and it apparently could not be killed by the marines.
MACs have similar issues. They won't repair something that is 1 foot away when given a command, and also refuse to build stuff.
A big problem is that marines can jump down in the new part but dont die. They have to type kill in console because there is no way back.
MACs have similar issues. They won't repair something that is 1 foot away when given a command, and also refuse to build stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I had an issue similar to this. Some of the time, selecting other structures and then clicking the Drifter/MAC again would fix it.
Few patches ago, hydra building was a problem, since it slowed down the server too much, and everybody was like "fix the hydras, we can't use them". Now they can be used, and it turns around "Fix the hydras, they are everywhere!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, we we're complaining about how they were everything and we couldn't use them without tanking the server (but people still did). UWE only solved half of the problem.
When I look for servers with players on, I usually see 1-2 servers with players on, in the entire world. Having up to 16 people in the world testing the game is ofcourse better than not having anybody test it at all, but I imagine you thousands of people have bought the game and would be potentially playing it, if it was in a playable state.
The game really doesn't need a lot of features in order to run. If it was possible to play a simple game of one alien race and one weapon for the marine on a single map with no interactable objects except the CC and the hive, and the game only had the shoot and the bite sound, the game could still be enjoyable and fun to play.
So far the one huge issue with the game, that prevents it from being playable is that it still runs at an extremely low framerate, once you encounter an enemy (Even with all settings set to low).
Having worked as a software developer for more than 10 years, I completely understand that fully optimizing the game isn't a priority until the required features are complete. Customers don't expect a beta product to be fully optimized before the final release, but they usually expect to be able to use the product for <i>some </i>of the tasks that the product was intended to do.
Therefore I implore you: Please make fixing the extremely low framerate your main priority until the framerate reaches a level where aiming is possible with an enemy in your vicinity.
A big problem is that marines can jump down in the new part but dont die. They have to type kill in console because there is no way back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The new version of Rockdown is still a work in progress. Other areas of the map are being reworked as well, mainly to open them up so they are less tight, namely the marine expansion to the east.
We also know about marines being able to jump down and not get back out again, and that has been addressed as well.
-Cory
It is indeed playable. I play it every day to some extent. What do you mean by playable? What kind of hardware do you have? Playable is a very relative term.
That being said, we totally understand your concern and all I can say is we have been focused on improving performance for a long time and are focused on performance currently.
These things take time and certain people focus on certain aspects. I wish it was just a single inner loop that could be optimized but it isn't sadly. We will get there. 1.0 will run much, much better than the current beta (which again, I would definitely call playable).
<!--quoteo(post=1844023:date=May 4 2011, 10:46 AM:name=player)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (player @ May 4 2011, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844023"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->updates to the beta-public should probably be synced with Engine-optimizations, rather than Lua-improvements (though improvements in the Lua-script can certainly result in a higher FPS too).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a chaotic mix between engine and Lua optimizations. These are interdependent and not easy to separate most of the time. It is convenient to throw around terms like "engine" and "Lua-script" but in reality, it is just a bunch of code. The code knows no difference between engine and Lua. An obvious improvement in one piece of code can have a negative effect on another piece of code. All factors need to be considered and more importantly, tested. We are working on ways to automate this process since we lack a dedicated team to do it for us.
<!--quoteo(post=1844028:date=May 4 2011, 10:53 AM:name=Bricksolid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bricksolid @ May 4 2011, 10:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844028"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the problem is mostly with the servers not be able to keep up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For some people this is true. If your client gets a decent framerate and the server you are on is running off a 5 year old laptop, you may perceive this as a problem with the game on your computer. In other cases the client is to blame. We are working on improving both, right now Max is focused on client side occlusion improvements that will make the framerate steadier and probably faster and I am going to spend some time on server optimizations related to infestation soon.
The battle rages on.
<!--quoteo(post=1844031:date=May 4 2011, 11:01 AM:name=jkflipflop)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jkflipflop @ May 4 2011, 11:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1844031"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, the next few sprints REALLY need to be based on networking and server performance. This game is multiplayer-only and as such your netcode is going to make or break you. This NEEDS to become a priority ASAP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All I can assure you is that the next few sprints will be based on improving what needs to be improved based on many confusing and fuzzy factors. It is a delicate balance this game development stuff. Not one thing can be the single focus I am afraid. If we were to spend all our time and energy on networking we may well find out in 2 months that networking was fine, it didn't need to be worked on at all. The problem was really in the player's perception of the time incoherencies inherent in networking a game and a simple tweak to gameplay or art would fix the problem. Einstein didn't consider multiplayer games when he limited the speed of light I am afraid :(
We decide what to work on based on a lovely mix of metrics, gut instincts, luck, and experience.
As some band I can't remember the name of said: "It's getting better all the time"
System specs? Game settings? Resolution? Not sure what you could possibly be running short of a laptop that would get 15 fps. With a Radeon 4850, Core2 E8400, settings max, res at 1680x1050, I get 30-40fps on tram, 25fps dips during combat. On rockdown you can add 5-10fps to that on average. My computer is 3 years old. You should be running alright unless you're using a 5+ year old PC.
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=korupt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (korupt)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->CPU: i7 920
GPU: GTX 295 OC
RAM: 6gbDDR
HDD:500 VelociRaptor hard drive Steam game's +NS2
FPS 15- 28
Max settings
Fps Drops down to 11 when near hive's etc./?\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What resolution? Rockdown, tram? I'd say it's strange if you're running 1680x1050 or lower, since your specs are generally better than mine. I'd venture a guess and say that your SLI profile isn't working, so your GTX 295 is likely running just one GPU core, at those clock speeds, it's roughly equivalent to a GTX 275-280, which puts it around the same league as what I'm running.
What's the CPU speed, stock or OC? I overclocked my Core2 by 26% and got almost a 20% increase in FPS. If you're running stock, you could potentially see what a mild OC would do you for you, if you know how.
It's <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP4apO4dbhw" target="_blank">The Beatles</a>.
Thanks for the patch and for answering in such detail.
Hmm, sounds like something may have downloaded incorrectly. Can you verify the game cache in steam?
I just thought of something else. Can you post your log if this happens again? Any lines related to a "vertex buffer" specifically. Thanks.
Im playing on a laptop with an intel quadcore2 cpu and a nvidia gtx 260m gfx card, not the baddest specs, but runs well in the default resolution.
That being said, we totally understand your concern and all I can say is we have been focused on improving performance for a long time and are focused on performance currently.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Playable = stable, fast, fun and balanced.
Stable - relatively stable lately. 175 crashed a lot.
Fast - 40-60 FPS without any drops below when I'm just walking through very boring indoor map. 30 server ticks. 20 server snapshots sent. You're talking about optimization but I haven't seen anyone attempting to host 32 slot server. If UWE can't host big playtests then how about testing with tickrate 100?
Flamer particle lowers FPS as much as it always did.
Fun - arbitrary but that's not my problem. :P The obvious part is that custom maps aren't really downloadable and there has been no attempt to put onos, siege cannon, JP and HA in the game yet. No one knows what bugs will get triggered and what gameplay will work out.
Balanced - That builds up on everything above. If fade moves around the map like drunk, blinking particle covers the screen so much that you can't see where you landed and efficiency is worse than worst walker fade in NS1 vs silly marine that learned to jump around then I don't call it balanced. After some time it also gets frustrating. One part of it is probably a bug and another is how low combo of tickrate/snapshots/FPS fades really get in average situation.
I could overclock memory and/or CPU to get stable 30+ FPS (and not just average) but why? I'd rather play NS1.
There's huge difference since few months ago already and I mostly believe that after 6-12 months from now it'll be playable. But it isn't yet.
I've never had a good playable game, although it's probably down to the fact NS2 as of yet, doesn't have a version optimised for a standard server admin. You'd need to be running it on it's own, on a dedi i7 box or similar to get anything playable.