We'll be adding all of these things when the time is right. We have other core game and engine work to do first though, because we believe they are more important.
Sure you can say it's not important now but i know it would improve the number of regular players online and variety of game play, i've already made a good argument for adding it sooner rather than later but it's up to them at the end of the day, i just don't understand why this stuff has been neglected for so long, all anyone wants is a better game and this will go a long way to helping with that, im not asking for official maps, merely the ability for community ones to be played as and when they become available, this would also help take some pressure off the team, win win.
It's absolutely possible to code a client mod that could download maps via FTP. The issue is, the maps would have the uploaded and indexed accordingly to an unofficial site. Downloading via the server itself would be laborious, and using off-site index would be preferable because it reduces the server load and there is no need for the server to do anything.
The system could simply provide an in-game option to download maps via a UI, or it could also extend to check if the game has the map the client is looking for and subsequently download the necessary files if it does not.
Note that not all maps use *just* the official files. Many add their own materials and props too. So support for downloading each of these files in the correct place would also be required. This suggests that we might want to download files in the form of a ZIP or other archive format (7z, for example) and include a library to extract these files according to the file structure in the archive. This would also reduce server load.
It's possible, it just requires a lot of work: <ul><li>Implementing two new libraries.</li><li>Implementing a UI</li><li>Setting up a repository for the maps</li></ul> It can be done by the community, but if it is going to be done by the community it should be started ASAP *after* the next build.
What we want is to mirror a map server into our map folder, right ? We could just call wget at the start of the game :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are a lot of tools out there for mirroring data, but sometimes you just want to do something very simple: download the latest contents of a FTP directory while leaving what you have already downloaded alone. wget supports a mirror command that provides this exact functionality. Just enter the directory where you would like to store the mirror and execute this command: wget --mirror [prot]://[username]:[password]@[hostname]/[directory to mirror]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if you can an external program from lua though.
<!--quoteo(post=1884665:date=Nov 11 2011, 04:00 PM:name=Trainee.ger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Trainee.ger @ Nov 11 2011, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->is there a chance that a member of the community can code this? matso? player? schimmel?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Schimmel is a member of the dev team now, so he's working on those more important tasks that Flayra mentioned.
We do have map rotation and auto downloading on our list for the near future, though, so it's not too far away. But performance improvements that have been made should make Tram playable again, and we will be releasing Mineshaft in the patch after 188, so soon there will be more official maps to play then just Summit.
I should bring to your attention that DLLs on the client-side are deprecated and I'm expecting will be made inoperable before v1.0, so any time invested in a venture that relies on it (such as map-downloading) is a bit of a time-waster long-term.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884674:date=Nov 11 2011, 06:52 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 11 2011, 06:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884674"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Schimmel is a member of the dev team now, so he's working on those more important tasks that Flayra mentioned.
We do have map rotation and auto downloading on our list for the near future, though, so it's not too far away. But performance improvements that have been made should make Tram playable again, and we will be releasing Mineshaft in the patch after 188, so soon there will be more official maps to play then just Summit.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Aw, I was looking forward to mineshaft in 188 :( Someone said earlier that it would be released together with occlusion culling, is this not true anymore?
<!--quoteo(post=1884687:date=Nov 11 2011, 10:28 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Nov 11 2011, 10:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884687"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Aw, I was looking forward to mineshaft in 188 :( Someone said earlier that it would be released together with occlusion culling, is this not true anymore?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Occlusion will be in patch 188, Mineshaft in patch 189.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884691:date=Nov 12 2011, 12:30 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 12 2011, 12:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Occlusion will be in patch 188, Mineshaft in patch 189.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> *sad* Looking forward to see/feel both though, thanks for the update. Keep up the good work!
<!--quoteo(post=1884691:date=Nov 11 2011, 06:30 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 11 2011, 06:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884691"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Occlusion will be in patch 188, Mineshaft in patch 189.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's good reason is there to hold mineshaft back for another update?
If oc is working and the map is playable then that's all that really matters, it's ok if it's not polished.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1884907:date=Nov 14 2011, 05:15 PM:name=Electr0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electr0 @ Nov 14 2011, 05:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's good reason is there to hold mineshaft back for another update?
If oc is working and the map is playable then that's all that really matters, it's ok if it's not polished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wondered about this as well, I guess it's because they want map rotation in first?
If we were to get rotation and downloads or a few more community maps temporarily available in the next patch in an official/unofficial manner, i think we would be sorted for some time to come.
<!--quoteo(post=1884907:date=Nov 14 2011, 04:15 PM:name=Electr0)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Electr0 @ Nov 14 2011, 04:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884907"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's good reason is there to hold mineshaft back for another update?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> One reason is that it uses an extensive amount of particle FX, more so then any of the other maps currently, and it is noticeable in the performance. Max wants to do a pass on the particles to make them less expensive, before we release Mineshaft.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Not to mention rifle muzzle smoke particles and Lerk spikes were directly injected into my CPU and GPU it seemed, back around 180-ish.
Better optimise first instead of getting flames from the community, with and overkill of particles shot your way, /me looks in the general direction of Schimmel :P
<!--quoteo(post=1884929:date=Nov 14 2011, 11:48 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Nov 14 2011, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1884929"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One reason is that it uses an extensive amount of particle FX, more so then any of the other maps currently, and it is noticeable in the performance. Max wants to do a pass on the particles to make them less expensive, before we release Mineshaft.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes sense and all, but couldn't you just disable the particle generators and release it? We can worry about making the maps pretty later.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited November 2011
tram was never broke by particle effects to my understanding? in fact its not really "broke".. its just not as optimized, either in performance or gameplay. (cant wait to see new changes in it tho!)
I was just looking around the mapping forum and saw this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIkdRV7Xu5Y" target="_blank">vid</a> showing some game play on ns2_turtle, it made me realize just how badly we need maps, rotation and most importantly the ability to download them in game when connecting to a server, it's almost like im seeing a different game, simply because we've been stuck playing the same map at any point in time.
The devs seriously need to reconsider just how important this stuff is to the playability of the game, this has been put off for far too long and i think many will now agree, performance is better, occlusion culling is in and a whole load of bugs have been fixed, so can we please just get this sorted for 189 and add some variety to the game?
"Technical task <b>Map changing</b> has appeared with status Unstarted" "Technical task <b>Auto-download mod files from the server to the client</b> has appeared with status Unstarted"
Looks like the game is about to get a lot more interesting!
One thing they should make clear is whether a server is pure or not in the list, so the beta can still be tested properly without people reporting stuff that might be caused by mods, it might also be good to know if bots are playing on a server as well.
That has been there before, but it's good to see it's actually scheduled for 190 this time around. With such significant new features it may also mean we won't see 190 until the new year.
<!--quoteo(post=1887971:date=Dec 2 2011, 06:50 AM:name=Magneto)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Magneto @ Dec 2 2011, 06:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1887971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Technical task <b>Map changing</b> has appeared with status Unstarted" "Technical task <b>Auto-download mod files from the server to the client</b> has appeared with status Unstarted"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope it will support redirects from external download host's. Imagine the bogging of a server trying to deal with that on multiple clients while multiple clients are already in playing. New player connection hitches <!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>(bandwidth bottlenecks?)</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->have been an issue in allot of multilayer online games.
Comments
you would earn our eternal gratitude and maybe some bucks from unknown worlds :)
The system could simply provide an in-game option to download maps via a UI, or it could also extend to check if the game has the map the client is looking for and subsequently download the necessary files if it does not.
Note that not all maps use *just* the official files. Many add their own materials and props too. So support for downloading each of these files in the correct place would also be required. This suggests that we might want to download files in the form of a ZIP or other archive format (7z, for example) and include a library to extract these files according to the file structure in the archive. This would also reduce server load.
It's possible, it just requires a lot of work:
<ul><li>Implementing two new libraries.</li><li>Implementing a UI</li><li>Setting up a repository for the maps</li></ul>
It can be done by the community, but if it is going to be done by the community it should be started ASAP *after* the next build.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are a lot of tools out there for mirroring data, but sometimes you just want to do something very simple: download the latest contents of a FTP directory while leaving what you have already downloaded alone. wget supports a mirror command that provides this exact functionality. Just enter the directory where you would like to store the mirror and execute this command:
wget --mirror [prot]://[username]:[password]@[hostname]/[directory to mirror]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if you can an external program from lua though.
Schimmel is a member of the dev team now, so he's working on those more important tasks that Flayra mentioned.
We do have map rotation and auto downloading on our list for the near future, though, so it's not too far away. But performance improvements that have been made should make Tram playable again, and we will be releasing Mineshaft in the patch after 188, so soon there will be more official maps to play then just Summit.
--Cory
We do have map rotation and auto downloading on our list for the near future, though, so it's not too far away. But performance improvements that have been made should make Tram playable again, and we will be releasing Mineshaft in the patch after 188, so soon there will be more official maps to play then just Summit.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aw, I was looking forward to mineshaft in 188 :( Someone said earlier that it would be released together with occlusion culling, is this not true anymore?
Occlusion will be in patch 188, Mineshaft in patch 189.
--Cory
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
*sad*
Looking forward to see/feel both though, thanks for the update. Keep up the good work!
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's good reason is there to hold mineshaft back for another update?
If oc is working and the map is playable then that's all that really matters, it's ok if it's not polished.
If oc is working and the map is playable then that's all that really matters, it's ok if it's not polished.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wondered about this as well, I guess it's because they want map rotation in first?
One reason is that it uses an extensive amount of particle FX, more so then any of the other maps currently, and it is noticeable in the performance. Max wants to do a pass on the particles to make them less expensive, before we release Mineshaft.
--Cory
Better optimise first instead of getting flames from the community, with and overkill of particles shot your way, /me looks in the general direction of Schimmel :P
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That makes sense and all, but couldn't you just disable the particle generators and release it? We can worry about making the maps pretty later.
(cant wait to see new changes in it tho!)
The devs seriously need to reconsider just how important this stuff is to the playability of the game, this has been put off for far too long and i think many will now agree, performance is better, occlusion culling is in and a whole load of bugs have been fixed, so can we please just get this sorted for 189 and add some variety to the game?
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIkdRV7Xu5Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIkdRV7Xu5Y</a>
Also worth a look...
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH9RhXRLB_M" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH9RhXRLB_M</a>
"Technical task <b>Auto-download mod files from the server to the client</b> has appeared with status Unstarted"
Looks like the game is about to get a lot more interesting!
One thing they should make clear is whether a server is pure or not in the list, so the beta can still be tested properly without people reporting stuff that might be caused by mods, it might also be good to know if bots are playing on a server as well.
"Technical task <b>Auto-download mod files from the server to the client</b> has appeared with status Unstarted"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope it will support redirects from external download host's. Imagine the bogging of a server trying to deal with that on multiple clients while multiple clients are already in playing. New player connection hitches <!--sizeo:2--><span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>(bandwidth bottlenecks?)</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->have been an issue in allot of multilayer online games.