AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
edited April 2012
My personal opinion to hardcaps of anything: DO NOT APPLY THEM TO THE GAME, Let serverside mods do that. Also i am sad you havent had the time to fully test your fixes and just released this! Grrrrr pax east infecting UWE with the meet'n'greet flu and taking them away from their jobs! Anyway, take your time on the next build and squash all the bugs you can find! Edit: I can bear to look at the editor again, back to mapping. I take my comments of this being minor back! This is great!
The new visuals for players upon death are quite neat. Kicking in a little quick, though, at least with Marines; their bodies vanish, before they even hit the ground. Personally, I'd change the 'rine ragdoll physics to "anti-gravity", so they get pulled up when they disintegrate.
The smouldering skin effect on burning aliens looks great, too. Sure, it's nothing of importance for the game, but it's a nice visual touch.
<!--quoteo(post=1924494:date=Apr 12 2012, 01:28 AM:name=jomachinegun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jomachinegun @ Apr 12 2012, 01:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For some reason steam wont let me update the new patch. The option doesnt even come up. help please<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First impression was that the build was unplayable, the worst yet. It appeared to be a server issue as the next server I joined was the smoothest I have enjoyed. So client side is rocking for me with fairly smooth 25-35 FPS (That's great for me) on a good server, 0.9-18 on an unstable server.
The end game still drops in framerate at marine spawn or the last hive though.
<!--quoteo(post=1924390:date=Apr 12 2012, 02:40 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Apr 12 2012, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924390"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->skulk movement is fairly precise and crisp once you get above 30 fps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didnt play this patch but skulk movement kicks ass since b203. Walljumping (was great idea to alternate skulk movement) makes so much fun ! Really enjoy to play skulk now.
when i remember starting playing starcraft and countstrike i remember so many IMBA strategies, tricks and skills are got broken, washed away to never be used again, because some one figured out an easy counter for it. people who started playing these games five years after me, broke my skill level in a few month, which took me years to get there, just because when they entered the game, they gained all those achievements the scene had explored immediately.
lets wait for game is FEATURE COMPLETE and then lets HACK the hell outa the gameplay... lets find strategies, tricks and develop skills, instead of *fat kid whining on console in front of tv*: hey thats unfair, i will spend day and night, writing complaint emails to the developers and opening hate threads in the forum, till the nerf that, cap that etc.
it should be about skill and there shouldnt be CAPS at all, maybe they introduce something like they wanted with co maps, some capped mode for newbies to learn at, so no one can go 150:10 - but maybe they do it ingame, like a handycap for good players. lets say record the gamedata in a database and analyse it on the fly and then dynamic ly set skillcaps according to the players data :) imba skilled fades get nerfed down if an absolut newb is in the opposite team, or newb players get more health or what do i know about ^^
just lets find ways different to RESTRICTION
the whole world is restricted everywhere, at least in my free spare time playing games i do not want to be restricted from the top and want to get in what i invested my time! (because in the end it is every time about or lifetime and how we spent it - isnt it?)
So how do you defeat a train of say 10 arcs coming to the hive?
We spotted unescorted ARCs - maybe 6 or 7 of them - as they rolled into vent. Had a lerk, skulk and onos attacking them constantly and yet about four of them reached the hive and deployed right next to it. Surely a game ending tactic like that should require more skill and coordination?
You don't want restrictions but I don't see you complaining about the speed caps, the weapon caps, the caps on player numbers, the caps on how many RTs you can have, caps on how many bullets your gun can have, etc. Without caps and restrictions it would be a few people floating around an empty space in noclip mode. Everyone else will have left.
I really have no doubt something is going to be changed to make ARCs weaker. I've seen it so many times in the alpha and beta. Something OP is defended by people who say we just need tactics to overcome it. Don't complain if the alpha flamethrower insta-kills aliens and shoots through walls, it's your fault for letting them upgrade the armoury! It should take 5 marines to kill 2 crags, they're supposed to work as a team!
<!--quoteo(post=1924569:date=Apr 12 2012, 05:09 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Apr 12 2012, 05:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So how do you defeat a train of say 10 arcs coming to the hive?
We spotted unescorted ARCs - maybe 6 or 7 of them - as they rolled into vent. Had a lerk, skulk and onos attacking them constantly and yet about four of them reached the hive and deployed right next to it.
Surely a game ending tactic like that should require more skill and coordination?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't let them get so much TRES to be able to build them all? If they spent so much TRES on that, then they must be lacking in other areas - upgrades, phase gates, weapons, jump packs.
And well, if they had everything else and still managed to do that then what else do you want them to do? Build Exosuits and storm the hive that way? I think ARCs should have some kind of nerf, but they're really the only way for a pub marine team to end a game against hives and hallways filled with hydras and whips at this point.
<!--quoteo(post=1924569:date=Apr 12 2012, 09:09 AM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Apr 12 2012, 09:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So how do you defeat a train of say 10 arcs coming to the hive?
We spotted unescorted ARCs - maybe 6 or 7 of them - as they rolled into vent. Had a lerk, skulk and onos attacking them constantly and yet about four of them reached the hive and deployed right next to it.
Surely a game ending tactic like that should require more skill and coordination?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem really butthurt about arc. All i must say is if you let them build 10 arcs and drive them all the way to base and all you had was a lerk a onos and a skulk on it... you and your team must really suck. A robo factory is 20 res then you gotta upgrade(10 i think) to pump acrs out. then 10 res a arc.... need at least 4 arc for them to be worth anything to get a hive down. So ye....
No matter how they got the res, it doesn't change the fact an arc train is a completely skill-less way to end a game which has been hard fought by both sides.
That's what people would say about the one touch kill flamethrowers. If the marines have them its your fault for letting them upgrade the armoury. Marines said the same about earlier versions of the fade. If you let them get the second hive you deserve to lose.
I think the game is more fun for most players when there is always a way to counter something, and where nothing the enemy has is so powerful it obliterates the good efforts of the enemy team.
<!--quoteo(post=1924572:date=Apr 12 2012, 01:23 PM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ Apr 12 2012, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All i must say is if you let them build 10 arcs and drive them all the way to base and all you had was a lerk a onos and a skulk on it... you and your team must really suck.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it was an ordinary team in an ordinary server. Some of them were probably new to the game and learning how to play, others don't understand English so well and we weren't all using mics.
This is how the game is experienced by most people who play it. Especially on the alien side.
Your expectations are a bit high I think.
Teamwork is a fantastic part of NS2 and good team work should be rewarded. But should teams have to display near flawless team work? There are so many things going on around a map and in public games you simply won't ever find the majority of players perfectly following what they 'should' be doing. It seems weird that they don't need fantastic team work for anything except defeating an ARC train.
So your saying you want COD: NS2? Want things to be easy and 3 guys could carry a team? So teamwork isnt fully needed to win. Maybe give aliens more starting res so they can get faster fade? So they can make it so marines cant get res as easy? Or maybe it would be cool if the hive could relocate. So when you seen arcs coming it could move to another hive site, so it would give more time to take down the arc train :)
<!--quoteo(post=1924579:date=Apr 12 2012, 01:48 PM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ Apr 12 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So your saying you want COD: NS2? Want things to be easy and 3 guys could carry a team? So teamwork isnt fully needed to win. Maybe give aliens more starting res so they can get faster fade? So they can make it so marines cant get res as easy? Or maybe i would be cool if the hive could relocate. So when you seen arcs coming it could move to another hive site, so it would give more time to take down the arc train :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, this is exactly what he is saying. I want it too. COD NS2 sounds more fun than the current game.
I cant discern all the individual visual effects, but something looks much more immediate and involving in this build, its like a kind of warm embracing clarity... its hard to put my finger on it, but its impressive.
frame rates not taken too much of a hit, if any, and the news that yet more optimisation is coming is great. Though I've moaned about focusing on frame rates in the past, I can understand leaving it till later.
I did just experience the onos/ gun jamming bug again (and to make things worse, he told us that his escape was a close call), but I'm sure its on the agenda.
oh, also, the font makes my smiley faces look like they are melting.
on the subject of arcs... I would say leave the balance of this issue until the game is feature complete, things will make more sense at that point.
<!--quoteo(post=1924579:date=Apr 12 2012, 01:48 PM:name=JuCCi-PuCCi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JuCCi-PuCCi @ Apr 12 2012, 01:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924579"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or maybe it would be cool if the hive could relocate. So when you seen arcs coming it could move to another hive site, so it would give more time to take down the arc train :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The funny thing is, that this is planed (or was?) for NS2. It is called echo:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Echo (Currently Unavailable) Description: Targeted ability that lets Alien Commander move a structure or Drifter elsewhere on the map (even a Hive or Harvester).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not sure about the Marine death effect... It's pretty, but it's a step away from NS2's gritty feel. (I know it won't happen, but I would much rather see maimed and bloody Marines.)
<!--quoteo(post=1924774:date=Apr 12 2012, 03:54 PM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Apr 12 2012, 03:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1924774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure about the Marine death effect... It's pretty, but it's a step away from NS2's gritty feel. (I know it won't happen, but I would much rather see maimed and bloody Marines.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Seconded. We had corpse eating being seriously discussed a few builds ago. Now, magic fizzing. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a step in a different direction.
I agree they happen to soon. They start fizzing before they hit the ground almost. I think it would have more aesthetic impact if they started fizzing between .75-1.5 seconds later, just a pause as they rag doll then they start to fizz as if it took a second for their vitals to fail.
Comments
Also i am sad you havent had the time to fully test your fixes and just released this! Grrrrr pax east infecting UWE with the meet'n'greet flu and taking them away from their jobs!
Anyway, take your time on the next build and squash all the bugs you can find!
Edit: I can bear to look at the editor again, back to mapping. I take my comments of this being minor back! This is great!
<a href="http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/04/would-i-rather-command-marines-in-natural-selection-2-or-bite-them-in-half-hmmm/" target="_blank">http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/04/would-i-r...m-in-half-hmmm/</a>
The smouldering skin effect on burning aliens looks great, too. Sure, it's nothing of importance for the game, but it's a nice visual touch.
verify the game's files.
The end game still drops in framerate at marine spawn or the last hive though.
Didnt play this patch but skulk movement kicks ass since b203.
Walljumping (was great idea to alternate skulk movement) makes so much fun !
Really enjoy to play skulk now.
Once this is running at a smooth 60fps it will be one of the best looking and great playing games out there.
Im loving playing with people all over the world too, makes a nice change.
Keep up the good work.
lets wait for game is FEATURE COMPLETE and then lets HACK the hell outa the gameplay... lets find strategies, tricks and develop skills, instead of *fat kid whining on console in front of tv*: hey thats unfair, i will spend day and night, writing complaint emails to the developers and opening hate threads in the forum, till the nerf that, cap that etc.
it should be about skill and there shouldnt be CAPS at all, maybe they introduce something like they wanted with co maps, some capped mode for newbies to learn at,
so no one can go 150:10 - but maybe they do it ingame, like a handycap for good players. lets say record the gamedata in a database and analyse it on the fly and then dynamic ly set skillcaps according to the players data :) imba skilled fades get nerfed down if an absolut newb is in the opposite team, or newb players get more health or what do i know about ^^
just lets find ways different to RESTRICTION
the whole world is restricted everywhere, at least in my free spare time playing games i do not want to be restricted from the top and want to get in what i invested my time!
(because in the end it is every time about or lifetime and how we spent it - isnt it?)
We spotted unescorted ARCs - maybe 6 or 7 of them - as they rolled into vent. Had a lerk, skulk and onos attacking them constantly and yet about four of them reached the hive and deployed right next to it. Surely a game ending tactic like that should require more skill and coordination?
You don't want restrictions but I don't see you complaining about the speed caps, the weapon caps, the caps on player numbers, the caps on how many RTs you can have, caps on how many bullets your gun can have, etc. Without caps and restrictions it would be a few people floating around an empty space in noclip mode. Everyone else will have left.
I really have no doubt something is going to be changed to make ARCs weaker. I've seen it so many times in the alpha and beta. Something OP is defended by people who say we just need tactics to overcome it. Don't complain if the alpha flamethrower insta-kills aliens and shoots through walls, it's your fault for letting them upgrade the armoury! It should take 5 marines to kill 2 crags, they're supposed to work as a team!
We spotted unescorted ARCs - maybe 6 or 7 of them - as they rolled into vent. Had a lerk, skulk and onos attacking them constantly and yet about four of them reached the hive and deployed right next to it.
Surely a game ending tactic like that should require more skill and coordination?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't let them get so much TRES to be able to build them all? If they spent so much TRES on that, then they must be lacking in other areas - upgrades, phase gates, weapons, jump packs.
And well, if they had everything else and still managed to do that then what else do you want them to do? Build Exosuits and storm the hive that way? I think ARCs should have some kind of nerf, but they're really the only way for a pub marine team to end a game against hives and hallways filled with hydras and whips at this point.
We spotted unescorted ARCs - maybe 6 or 7 of them - as they rolled into vent. Had a lerk, skulk and onos attacking them constantly and yet about four of them reached the hive and deployed right next to it.
Surely a game ending tactic like that should require more skill and coordination?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You seem really butthurt about arc. All i must say is if you let them build 10 arcs and drive them all the way to base and all you had was a lerk a onos and a skulk on it... you and your team must really suck. A robo factory is 20 res then you gotta upgrade(10 i think) to pump acrs out. then 10 res a arc.... need at least 4 arc for them to be worth anything to get a hive down. So ye....
That's what people would say about the one touch kill flamethrowers. If the marines have them its your fault for letting them upgrade the armoury. Marines said the same about earlier versions of the fade. If you let them get the second hive you deserve to lose.
I think the game is more fun for most players when there is always a way to counter something, and where nothing the enemy has is so powerful it obliterates the good efforts of the enemy team.
Can we have a civil discussion?
No it was an ordinary team in an ordinary server. Some of them were probably new to the game and learning how to play, others don't understand English so well and we weren't all using mics.
This is how the game is experienced by most people who play it. Especially on the alien side.
Your expectations are a bit high I think.
Teamwork is a fantastic part of NS2 and good team work should be rewarded. But should teams have to display near flawless team work? There are so many things going on around a map and in public games you simply won't ever find the majority of players perfectly following what they 'should' be doing. It seems weird that they don't need fantastic team work for anything except defeating an ARC train.
Yes, this is exactly what he is saying. I want it too. COD NS2 sounds more fun than the current game.
I would love to see more resource play.
I cant discern all the individual visual effects, but something looks much more immediate and involving in this build, its like a kind of warm embracing clarity... its hard to put my finger on it, but its impressive.
frame rates not taken too much of a hit, if any, and the news that yet more optimisation is coming is great.
Though I've moaned about focusing on frame rates in the past, I can understand leaving it till later.
I did just experience the onos/ gun jamming bug again (and to make things worse, he told us that his escape was a close call), but I'm sure its on the agenda.
oh, also, the font makes my smiley faces look like they are melting.
on the subject of arcs... I would say leave the balance of this issue until the game is feature complete, things will make more sense at that point.
stay frosty.
The funny thing is, that this is planed (or was?) for NS2. It is called echo:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Echo (Currently Unavailable)
Description: Targeted ability that lets Alien Commander move a structure or Drifter elsewhere on the map (even a Hive or Harvester).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded. We had corpse eating being seriously discussed a few builds ago. Now, magic fizzing. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's a step in a different direction.