Ns Unbalanced, Period.
Butt_monkey_salad
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 11006Banned
Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 11006Banned
Marines win 15% of time, aliens win 85%. Now heres some Answers to common complaints:
Marines were made to act as a team rather than go rambo like aliens- yes well one team having to be more organized than another to win is not balanced at all, silly.
Just secure 2 hives so they cant get fades- ok, thats possible, but only IF they are rushing AND they fail. If not then obviously they will secure them first since they are closer to aliens. And trust me, a game cannot be won if they get more than 1 hive. Never had never will.
If u cant beat them, then find a way and stop whining- it doesnt work that same way with aliens, obviously. Unbalanced once again. And its a teamwork game consisting of more than me so its not me, its the crap race.
U just need a good commander- And where do i find one?? Cmon, the outcome shouldnt rely on whether or not ONE person was good at commanding, that is too single-sided.
In the end...Nomatter how u look at it, u gotta just admit it isnt balanced and thats a fact. As an Alien I can be laid back and still win, as a marine I can be right in the barrel and still fail miserably. End of story
Marines were made to act as a team rather than go rambo like aliens- yes well one team having to be more organized than another to win is not balanced at all, silly.
Just secure 2 hives so they cant get fades- ok, thats possible, but only IF they are rushing AND they fail. If not then obviously they will secure them first since they are closer to aliens. And trust me, a game cannot be won if they get more than 1 hive. Never had never will.
If u cant beat them, then find a way and stop whining- it doesnt work that same way with aliens, obviously. Unbalanced once again. And its a teamwork game consisting of more than me so its not me, its the crap race.
U just need a good commander- And where do i find one?? Cmon, the outcome shouldnt rely on whether or not ONE person was good at commanding, that is too single-sided.
In the end...Nomatter how u look at it, u gotta just admit it isnt balanced and thats a fact. As an Alien I can be laid back and still win, as a marine I can be right in the barrel and still fail miserably. End of story
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Not only should this post be locked, but there've been disagreements about this since forever. Aliens have to teamwork in order to stop siege cannons. Chances are it isn't just one marine sitting there, and you have to deal with the phase gate sitting there as well. If you're just one lonely skulk, you're toast.
Play some more, switch servers a little, and then come back and see if you notice how the game is balanced pretty well right now.
However anybody remember the first days of CS? I mean seriously give the game like 6 months and it will build a good following of experienced players. Right now its hit and miss but in the future and oh yes I see a future for this game it will be much better.
Taskman <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Update: sorry, make that 6
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And trust me, a game cannot be won if they get more than 1 hive. Never had never will.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hahahha, see? You suck. I just lost a game last night when we had 2 hives. And i also won SEVERAL games when they had 2 hives. you or your teammates suuuuck
I played a FOUR, yes F-O-U-R hour NS game the other night. The game went back and forth at least a dozen times. They secured 2 hives, we secured 2 hives, they took one, we took a different one back. Went on like that for foooooour hours. They had fades for the longest time and it kept us on our toes. They even took out our main base at one point, but our kick **obscenity** comm rebuilt in a different hive. I was on the marine team, and we finally secured 2 hives and was going for the 3rd but then the server crashed =( Two hives does NOT = gg, fades do NOT = gg. Most people think that cause they have no clue what to do when they hear them.
As comm, (with good teammates) i never lose as marine. My win factor is 100% because I have marines that can perform, that listen, and that know what they are doing. Also they know the map just as well as I do.
So dont complain about "ns is unbalanced, waaaa" just cause you cant understand how to win as marine. The game is more indepth then any other mod out there, and takes a little bit longer to learn. I dont wanna see this mod changed overnight because of people like you think there are unbalances cause you cant win.
You can't just talk from anecdotal evidence and expect your words to have any weight.
I played a FOUR, yes F-O-U-R hour NS game the other night. The game went back and forth at least a dozen times. They secured 2 hives, we secured 2 hives, they took one, we took a different one back. Went on like that for foooooour hours. They had fades for the longest time and it kept us on our toes. They even took out our main base at one point, but our kick **obscenity** comm rebuilt in a different hive. I was on the marine team, and we finally secured 2 hives and was going for the 3rd but then the server crashed =( Two hives does NOT = gg, fades do NOT = gg. Most people think that cause they have no clue what to do when they hear them.
As comm, (with good teammates) i never lose as marine. My win factor is 100% because I have marines that can perform, that listen, and that know what they are doing. Also they know the map just as well as I do.
So dont complain about "ns is unbalanced, waaaa" just cause you cant understand how to win as marine. The game is more indepth then any other mod out there, and takes a little bit longer to learn. I dont wanna see this mod changed overnight because of people like you think there are unbalances cause you cant win.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then it IS unbalanced cuz marines need a good comm and aliens dont even need a comm at all.
Update: sorry, make that 6<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, I'm like, enlightened. That logic has like, totally given me like a totaly new aspect on life.
** Be nice **
And if they aliens dont communicate they can suffer just as much as the marines do. If aliens have more than 1 gorge, its just as bad as a comm that doesnt know what he's doing. Everyone on the team gets less, and can do less. I was in a game one time where 3 people went gorge and wouldnt get off...needless to say, we lost that game cause of them.
There are these funny things called resource nozzles. See, you're supposed to take them out so that one team doesnt get 10x the resources the other does. If you let a team get all or 90% of the nozzles on the map....well i'll say it again, you or your team just sucks and doesnt understand the mod yet.
Flayra and his team made an awsome, balanced, well-thought out game, and i dont think anything should be changed. It would be heart breaking to watch this mod change so newbies can have their way. It was like watching JK2 die, and watching WC3 go from awsome betas to final release.....it was just sad to watch
ok, so i played last night, commanded, enemy got 3 hives at one point, we won :/
on a public....
message
Marines win if they are good AND if aliens suck bad
Aliens win if they dont suck too bad, thats it
its anectodal evidence, but its about 50 games worth of it. Therefore it is hardly considered anecdotal now. People still havent gotten it after its been out for 2 months <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem I see is that even though the marines are supposed to be for newbie players (Less complicated team, you are told what to do instead of having to think, etc..) They take more skill to be effective. Each member of the marine team has to be working for the team, and not for themselfs, where an alien player can screw off and not have so much impact on the team as a whole.
I've been in many games where the whole group of marines has blown it, or a single marine has caused the whole team to lose, or (and this happens most often) someone tries commanding who has no idea how to win a game as marine. The first example, in one game I was commander on ns_eclipse, and after building some things at base, I sent most of the marines to the Matinence hive. About 4 of them made it there together, and before I could even build anything, a single skulk took out 3 of them. I wasn't about to place anything with a single marine there to build it, he was dead before backup arrived anyways. Now, when somthing like this fails, I change my plan. Now the aliens know we are going for that particular hive, the game just started, go for the other free hive instead. Unfortunatly, at this point, my marines had their heart set on taking Matinence, and would not follow my orders to move to a different hive. They kept going to the first hive we wanted, kept getting owned by waiting skulks, and eventually the fades rolled in, and if you got players that can't take out skulks, good luck against fades...
Many times as a soldier, I've had a single player get our whole squad owned due to lack of knowledge. When the game is in full swing, to lose a whole group of marines that had a specific task, such as seiging a hive, could mean the game. Again, on ns_eclipse, myself and a team of marines were waiting near the back entrance of the Eclipse Command hive. We were all crouched so that we didn't make sounds, and we were all quietly waiting for our commander to save enough resources so that we could setup there without having to wait around for extra resources before we could build more structures. Unfortunatly, a newbie player found his way to our location and started running around, using the pop-up menu to ask for ammo and medpacks, and the next thing you know, a freshly spawn skulk comes around the corner to inspect the noises he's heard. Next thing you know, 3 fades are in the room. Thank you Mr. Newbie.
Same thing has happened while traveling to a location. The group will be moving to their destination when a new player decides that he just has to pump a few LMG rounds into an offencive chaimber. This causes the aliens to get a big fat "Structre Under Attack" warning, with a big red dot showing them where they have to go to find some action. Next thing you know, a group of skulks is eating you.
I've won more than 15% of the marine games I have played, and I have probably won more than 75% of the games I have commanded. Winning with the marines can be done, but you need players who actually work as a team. One player can screw everything up.
The game is balanced... why?
Lets take some examples, Aliens first:
1) If you get lucky enough, you'll have one or two gorges and the other people won't gorge.
2) Aliens collect from a pool of resources. If there is one gorge and everybody else is spending, it will take longer for the gorge to get resources.
3) Yes, Aliens can use rambo tactics but, they're almost useless against a squad of three Marines.
4) I do believe Aliens are a stronger race but, they can't outmatch a hoard of communicating Marines.
Marines:
1) Good commander is a must. Obviously one with voice.
2) Rambo tactics are frowned upon. They're only useful when you want to secure a hive and you know that person can survive.
3) Phase gates work wonders.
4) Fully upgraded HA / HMG Marine = Dead Alien (Even Onos)
5) Five fully upgraded HA / HMG Marines = Dead alien team and all hives.
The deal with balance is how the resources are spent. If the resources on either team are spent incorrectly, it can mean certain death to that team. If nobody is communicating on Marines, then the Marines are dead. The Aliens can stand without communicating but, if they do, the game is much more fun.
The game is entirely team-oriented. You can't win if you're not a team. I've played in a server for more than eight hours at a time and won 80% of the games as Marines. The commander knew what to do (at times I would command and still win). Just look at in this way: You have the commander giving orders to his squad. Pick out one or two teammates to be the captains and give them orders to lead your other Marines. I've found that works EXTREMELY well.
Maybe they should just make hotkeys, ctrl-grouping, etc. to make commanding about as fluent as playing Warcraft 3. But they probably refuse to either cuz its too diffiult to program ALL that into HL or that its considered to be 'stealing ideas'. BS!
OMG, LOL...
I'm sorry, but you just invalidated any reasonable chance of having an agrument right there, you obveously don't know enough about the game to start commenting on its balance...
And as many have been saying, yes, the game can be won after aliens have 3 hives. I've won games as a marine with 3 alien hives, I've won many games where aliens have been allowed 2 hives, the balance upsets you are talking about seem more related to player skill levels then actual unbalancing issues in the game.
OMG, LOL...
I'm sorry, but you just invalidated any reasonable chance of having an agrument right there, you obveously don't know enough about the game to start commenting on its balance...
And as many have been saying, yes, the game can be won after aliens have 3 hives. I've won games as a marine with 3 alien hives, I've won many games where aliens have been allowed 2 hives, the balance upsets you are talking about seem more related to player skill levels then actual unbalancing issues in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im talking bout resource income, not skill.
By this i mean: each individual alien recieves as much income as Marines do as a WHOLE! And no Ive played the game and seen the resource and income AND how many resource nozzle we have and what I said was true. Flames that are meant to sound good get u nowhere logically. But nice try...
Eh... yes. If you have a bad team you will lose, unless the opposition is even worse. Just because you lose everytime you play doesn't mean the game is unbalanced.
Also, I just came off a server after 6 rounds played, aliens won 1 (I was alien every time). We weren't THAT bad (only one gorg etc) there were just too many aliens that weren't communicating or responding quick enough. The marines weren't exceptional, they just had a decent COM and didn't go rambo too much and weren't afraid to die for the team (it's tough to take a hive when suicide marines are just flowing through the phase gate in an endless stream).
Most games I play aliens get the 2:nd hive up one way or the other, then the game is decided on whether the marines can take it down before the aliens get too many fades and consolidate, unless the marines have already gathered up enough res to get HA/HMG/GL for enough people.
I think that if you read through the posts here and play some other servers you will realise this.
Anyway, you're way off base with the resources, both teams get the same. The aliens res goes into a "pool" and is then dealt to the aliens 1 share for everyone except gorgs who get 3 shares. Once one alien is maxed out, the others split his share. That's how it works. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yes. Flayra has no coding skill - that's why he somehow managed to make a game with both first person and real-time strategy elements, all in true 3D, with a particle map and weapons system and extra lighting effects, using disimmilar teams and both alien and human aspects. Making hotkeys is just so outside the real of his talents. As is obvious to most people, the lack of hotkeys was a time constraint, nothing more.
You need to go learn something about statistics, BMS. Your measurements (50 games, and I'm assuming that this is a truthful statement) is not nearly enough to know anything about NS balance. Come back in a few months when you have some real experience to offer.
This is kind of like beating a dead horse, I mean come on lets get over it now. I come here to find useful tips about how to improve me servers fps, or to stop bug explioters, and so and and so forth, but now I am just **obscenity**. Every time I come on here now its less and less helpful, and more just a bunch of people complaining about how the game is unbalanced.
NS has bugs (LIKE EVERY GAME) to tell you the truth, I am like amazed at what NS did, I have never seen a mod with so little bugs when released. What the NS team did for HL was show every one that with a new engine the limits to HL mods are as far as the eye can see.
I play marines all the time, infact I am known to ban people out of my server cause they do not play as a team. You know the kind that sit in your base next to the armory, yelling at you saying you suck at commander cause you will not give him a HW while your trying to secure there second hive and have like 2 resources.
Its not the game, personaly, you give me 3 good guys to command, and I will beat a team of 20 alliens. Siege......OMG you want to talk about unfair lets look at that. LMAO.
This is not CS, you do not run around kill a few guys and say your good. This is a team game, as far as I see it if your complaining about marines then its cause you suck at team play, and strait up stop complaining about it. If you think its unbalanced go play some hacker-strike or something. Lets leave the team based games to those that know how to work as a team.
AND LETS GET SOME PRODUCTIVE POSTING IN HERE, I COME HERE FOR HELP, NOT COMPLAINTS!!
But He does not Love this thread.
Jesus. According to the average expected game that's about 25 hours of straight gameplay. That's a lot, you have to learn something in that time.
--Frahg