This means finals might not end until 5-6 am in europe... Is this reasonable? I cant stay up that late, Im a working man who cant mess up my sleep scheadule like that.
<!--quoteo(post=1975560:date=Sep 11 2012, 09:42 AM:name=Agiel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Agiel @ Sep 11 2012, 09:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975560"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wouldn't it be better to play at least the finals on the day after? This is going to be a lot of matches and delays are bound to happen. Assuming a European team makes it to the finals it's going to be morning by the time they get there, and I doubt their quality of play will be the best it can be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1975650:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:13 AM:name=RedDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedDragon @ Sep 11 2012, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975650"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not for nothing, but this seems a bit hastily put together, especially coming off the heels of the last tournament.
I think you might want to postpone for another week so all the kinks can get worked out, and also to give teams some down time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah I think this week works....just a few kinks to work out. Already 3 teams signed up, so he's halfway there!
I would be fine with the finals being Sunday... it wasn't intentional last week but worked out fine.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Teams must consist of 6 players
Substitutions are allowed, but a max of 2 players per round may be brought in to replace other players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We have 12 players in our team roster, all of them want to play and most of them have work commitments, i cant see why its unfair for us to play any of the 12 that we want for any given round?
Is it unfair that we have so many players to pick from? any of the teams could recruit 12 members and do the same, and i wouldnt have any problem with it.
<!--quoteo(post=1975614:date=Sep 11 2012, 12:37 PM:name=Ryne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ryne @ Sep 11 2012, 12:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975614"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wasabi, which maps will be played? I do not see a mention of that<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think all matches should be on the same map to keep it as fair as possible. Also all the teams must vote for what map the 'WASABI CUP' is going to be played on aslo, to keep it fair. And maybe have a vote for random starts being enabled/disabled
<!--quoteo(post=1975706:date=Sep 11 2012, 04:58 PM:name=Hunter.S.T.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hunter.S.T. @ Sep 11 2012, 04:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We have 12 players in our team roster, all of them want to play and most of them have work commitments, i cant see why its unfair for us to play any of the 12 that we want for any given round?
Is it unfair that we have so many players to pick from? any of the teams could recruit 12 members and do the same, and i wouldnt have any problem with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Recruit some more and make 2 teams?
edit: on 2nd thought guess not everybody would be fine with that... edit2: with having both in the same tournament, not the creating part :P
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you allow unlimited replacement teams might turn out to have separated alien and marine teams.
<b>Unlimited replacement between matches is fine though.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If there is a draw after 2 rounds the Stream Admins will flip a coin to determine what side the teams will play If playing an NA v EU match the loser of the flip will chose the server to play on<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does this mean the admin will decide which team calls heads and which calls tails, then allow whichever team wins the flip the choice of marines/aliens? Just want to be absolutely clear as I was a bit confused at first.
And also, how can this be made to be completely above board? Not to question anyone's integrity, but it would be hard to defend against calls of shenanigans if the admin was literally flipping a coin. =]
I had spoken to Locklear before posting this and let him know that I would absolutely be ok with Nxzl putting in two teams. The reason for the 2 player max swap out each round is exactly what people have described in here, each round you can replace two players so by a third game you could have an entirely different team form the first round but also because teams build there counter startegies on how the opposing team played the first round, if you change up the majority of the team its a little lopsided, IMO.
As for the final, Yes I am willing to postpone the Final matches to Sunday if all the teams that sign up are ok with that and can make it work. As far as the map, once all the teams are signed up and locked in we will have a meeting of the captains to discuss any further issues and maps in play, etc...
I do agree it is very soon after the last one but there is a lot of excitement going around and getting more of this organized play going is good for the community and helps work towards an even bigger event in the future.
Ego Gamer, I have a coinflip app, the loser of the previous map will get to call heads or tails.... I have no control over how the app picks heads or tails...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had spoken to Locklear before posting this and let him know that I would absolutely be ok with Nxzl putting in two teams. The reason for the 2 player max swap out each round is exactly what people have described in here, each round you can replace two players so by a third game you could have an entirely different team form the first round but also because teams build there counter startegies on how the opposing team played the first round, if you change up the majority of the team its a little lopsided, IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If teams are building their counter strategies for their marine game, based on how their opponents just played their marine game, then they are doing it wrong.
I am still not sure why you think it is lopsided to be able to field any of the 12 players from our roster on any given round, but its your tournament, and you are welcome to announce whatever rules you would like. Best of luck with the tournament.
Personally any player swapping is badmanners, outside of issues that are beyond the control of the players.. Swapping someone out for someone else completely defeats the purpose of having a main team, and the pros/cons of choosing players with strengths/weaknesses.. basically your admitting to wanting to switch out bad marine players for good marine players and vice versa on aliens..
I think Dragon is right, also using any other esport game out there right now, show me an example of any team that swaps out players? I think I am being pretty felxible in allowing substitutions. I would hope that with 12 players Nxzl would submit a team, but if you dont think its worth your time or effort to put together a team that would be a bummer. There is no monetary prize here people its just to have some good games and get used to playing the brackets. These events will be be ever changing and adjusting based on how they play out. I am more than willing to have a conversation with anyone about any of the rules, hit me up on steam, skype, ts or email.
Awesome work Wasabi! Once a few more teams are signed up, I will blast this thing all over the tweetbook+ and get you guys up in lights with the biggest audience we can muster!
There is only one player on our team who would be swapped out for the reason you mention, i.e. he is an amazing alien, but a poor marine. Another 2 are swapped mainly for ping differences, when we change to play on a euro vs american server, so, being able to swap 2 players as per the rules isnt really a problem for these factors, and isnt the source of my complaint.
Really tho, i would love to let all of our clan play, if we are playing a weaker team, i would love to play some of our less played members, as all the nexzil players are amazing and highly skilled, and all of them deserve to contribute to nexzils victory, even if we only play our A team against certain teams.
This is why i say, that being able to sub only 2 in between rounds, is not a problem for us. Literally, it makes no difference at all, 2 is the maximum we would want to swap in and out of our a team, assuming that no1 had missed the first round due to work constraints.
But not being able to swap as many as we want when we face a weaker opponent in the next match up, is an issue, its not an issue that will make us loose, if anything, its more likely to make us win. All it will do is deprive some of our less played members of playtime in the tournament, and i feel that they deserve to play.
I dont want to bang on about this to much, as i hear that nexzil will not be entering this tournament, rendering the point a little moot. I do look forward to watching the matches tho, i set up a twitch.tv account a while ago, maybe ill stream ya all or join another caster, im sure it will be a great tournament, cant wait to see it!
You can already spec in first person: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120933" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=120933</a>
Hunter, thank you for making your case and I will spend some serious time thinking about it. I am also very saddened that Nxzl wont be playing in the CUP, I would think with 12 players it would be pretty easy for you to muster a strong team, but alas after last weekend I can understand taking a step back and relaxing.
Also since it doesnt look like Nxzl or INV will be playing we are looking to move the time back slightly earlier to help with the EU teams. So this will probably be the last change and I think its a good one so 10AM | 1PM | 18 | 19...
orly.... wow! rant you know how to make my day... I would be sad not to see at least some of you play. Remember its all for fun int he end, although who knows maybe I will get crazy and give a prize.... :)
For super srs tourneys I think very strict substitution rules are fine. For small "for fun" cups like this one and the one last weekend though I don't see much reason to be as harsh imo.
Rants makes the argument more conclusive, however please note in the more serious tournament(s) that rule will most likely be in effect so you should be prepared for it. but again this is for fun and wed love to watch some good games so LET DO THAT!
And a great thing about these for fun tournaments is that we can help refine the rules for more serious tournaments. It will be good to define a rule set that everyone can anticipate, plan and train around.
Comments
+1
I think you might want to postpone for another week so all the kinks can get worked out, and also to give teams some down time.
I think you might want to postpone for another week so all the kinks can get worked out, and also to give teams some down time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nah I think this week works....just a few kinks to work out. Already 3 teams signed up, so he's halfway there!
I would be fine with the finals being Sunday... it wasn't intentional last week but worked out fine.
Substitutions are allowed, but a max of 2 players per round may be brought in to replace other players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We have 12 players in our team roster, all of them want to play and most of them have work commitments, i cant see why its unfair for us to play any of the 12 that we want for any given round?
Is it unfair that we have so many players to pick from? any of the teams could recruit 12 members and do the same, and i wouldnt have any problem with it.
I think all matches should be on the same map to keep it as fair as possible. Also all the teams must vote for what map the 'WASABI CUP' is going to be played on aslo, to keep it fair. And maybe have a vote for random starts being enabled/disabled
Unlimited replacement between matches is fine though.
Is it unfair that we have so many players to pick from? any of the teams could recruit 12 members and do the same, and i wouldnt have any problem with it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Recruit some more and make 2 teams?
edit: on 2nd thought guess not everybody would be fine with that...
edit2: with having both in the same tournament, not the creating part :P
<b>Unlimited replacement between matches is fine though.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would be happy with this!
If playing an NA v EU match the loser of the flip will chose the server to play on<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Does this mean the admin will decide which team calls heads and which calls tails, then allow whichever team wins the flip the choice of marines/aliens? Just want to be absolutely clear as I was a bit confused at first.
And also, how can this be made to be completely above board? Not to question anyone's integrity, but it would be hard to defend against calls of shenanigans if the admin was literally flipping a coin. =]
As for the final, Yes I am willing to postpone the Final matches to Sunday if all the teams that sign up are ok with that and can make it work. As far as the map, once all the teams are signed up and locked in we will have a meeting of the captains to discuss any further issues and maps in play, etc...
I do agree it is very soon after the last one but there is a lot of excitement going around and getting more of this organized play going is good for the community and helps work towards an even bigger event in the future.
Thank you everyone!
If teams are building their counter strategies for their marine game, based on how their opponents just played their marine game, then they are doing it wrong.
I am still not sure why you think it is lopsided to be able to field any of the 12 players from our roster on any given round, but its your tournament, and you are welcome to announce whatever rules you would like. Best of luck with the tournament.
Really tho, i would love to let all of our clan play, if we are playing a weaker team, i would love to play some of our less played members, as all the nexzil players are amazing and highly skilled, and all of them deserve to contribute to nexzils victory, even if we only play our A team against certain teams.
This is why i say, that being able to sub only 2 in between rounds, is not a problem for us. Literally, it makes no difference at all, 2 is the maximum we would want to swap in and out of our a team, assuming that no1 had missed the first round due to work constraints.
But not being able to swap as many as we want when we face a weaker opponent in the next match up, is an issue, its not an issue that will make us loose, if anything, its more likely to make us win. All it will do is deprive some of our less played members of playtime in the tournament, and i feel that they deserve to play.
I dont want to bang on about this to much, as i hear that nexzil will not be entering this tournament, rendering the point a little moot. I do look forward to watching the matches tho, i set up a twitch.tv account a while ago, maybe ill stream ya all or join another caster, im sure it will be a great tournament, cant wait to see it!
Also since it doesnt look like Nxzl or INV will be playing we are looking to move the time back slightly earlier to help with the EU teams. So this will probably be the last change and I think its a good one so 10AM | 1PM | 18 | 19...