<!--quoteo(post=1976708:date=Sep 12 2012, 08:54 PM:name=DggMuffin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DggMuffin @ Sep 12 2012, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976708"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sure UWE has the time and manpower to do large-scale studies. IMO the suggestions taken into consideration from the forum are more than I could have asked for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, and I don't mean it as a jab at UWE either. They do a LOT with very few (and very talented) people. The problem is that you can't make far-reaching decisions based on posts from the 10 most frenetic people in this community. It hasn't worked so far and it's not going to start working. Debating mechanics that are too deeply built into the game to be removed is not that useful...but it doesn't mean they're good. In a lot of cases, things were justified with blanket statements like "user friendliness!" and "making comebacks easier!" because those are hip in game development, not because they are good for ns2. What you end up with is a community where 50% of the people say "I like the new feature I've barely tried!" and the other 50% say "I don't like it because it's not like in Quake". You end up with a big fat sack of useless feedback and leave it as it is.
<!--quoteo(post=1976721:date=Sep 12 2012, 09:09 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lmao thanks for de-legitimizing everything you ever said ever with those 6 words. Maybe you should play this game a few times, then comment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sorry you're right the lerk is good that's why there's a 10 page thread on the front page with everyone saying it isn't
<!--quoteo(post=1976726:date=Sep 13 2012, 01:13 AM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 13 2012, 01:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->sorry you're right the lerk is good that's why there's a 10 page thread on the front page with everyone saying it isn't<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... you forgot the part where that thread was based off an old build before the recent massive lerk buffs. But again, you don't actually play this game, you just complain about it.
<!--quoteo(post=1976721:date=Sep 13 2012, 02:09 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 13 2012, 02:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lmao thanks for de-legitimizing everything you ever said ever with those 6 words.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk doesnt suck but it isnt good either
Gorge, compared to what it was in NS1, is very bland and the second GLs come up half his job (area denial) is pretty impossible to do.
skulks are fine, a slight speed buff to make up for the wall hopping going would be nice but not really needed, especially since celerity or leap very rapidly is the standard now.
As for those saying no blink fade is doable how do you deal with shotties? I can pick off solo or pairs of machinegun marines sure but the second theres more than 2 or a shotgun it becomes a death sentance to go in without blink. Not that that's a bad thing but how do I get around it?
<!--quoteo(post=1976627:date=Sep 12 2012, 07:59 PM:name=DggMuffin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DggMuffin @ Sep 12 2012, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976627"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5) Uhh ill stream and u can watch me. Couple shadowstep with double jump and you can shift/space/shift/space/shift/space your way across the map in no time (no SS delay).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You think blink's primary application is traveling around the map?
<!--quoteo(post=1976627:date=Sep 12 2012, 07:59 PM:name=DggMuffin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DggMuffin @ Sep 12 2012, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976627"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3) Early game marines need sprint, they are as slow as exos without it (slow being a tradeoff for the heavy guns/armor). Again, they have to stop to shoot, so I don't see the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I realize this is not NS1 but it seems to me many of the core concepts are the same, and marines seemed to have no trouble then and no one even had any thoughts of sprint. Also most people dont realize you sprint nearly 1.5 times faster with your axe out.
<!--quoteo(post=1976721:date=Sep 12 2012, 09:09 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lmao thanks for de-legitimizing everything you ever said ever with those 6 words. Maybe you should play this game a few times, then comment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you judge the legitimacy of someones words based on other things they said rather than the words themselves then you are probably committing some sort of fallacy, and more importantly there is little point trying to discuss things with you.
<!--quoteo(post=1976742:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:25 PM:name=1dominator1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1dominator1 @ Sep 12 2012, 06:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976742"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You think blink's primary application is traveling around the map?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my post. I use blink to get in and out of fights (and map movement when adren is up), but SS in combat is almost as good as blink imo (purely b/c of its spam-able nature when jumping right after SS). Of course it cant deal with JP's, but I can get in and out almost as fast with SS.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
You guys also need to remember NS1.04 or go play that again to refresh your memories on how great UWE have always been at evolving a game in the direction that the community want - and I'm speaking as someone who came from the community, onto the NS1 dev team to facilitate exactly that.
NS2 is not perfect, but I think the initial release of NS2 is a much much better game than the initial release of NS1 was, and I am confident that with a full-time team working on evolving NS2 with post-release updates, it will reach a stable state much more quickly than NS1 did.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1976922:date=Sep 13 2012, 10:09 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Sep 13 2012, 10:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976922"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You guys also need to remember NS1.04 or go play that again to refresh your memories on how great UWE have always been at evolving a game in the direction that the community want - and I'm speaking as someone who came from the community, onto the NS1 dev team to facilitate exactly that.
NS2 is not perfect, but I think the initial release of NS2 is a much much better game than the initial release of NS1 was, and I am confident that with a full-time team working on evolving NS2 with post-release updates, it will reach a stable state much more quickly than NS1 did.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is true and I have no doubts this game will keep improving, but:
1. NS1 was a free mod, NS2 is a (rather expensive) standalone game. 2. Why repeat the mistakes they/we (should've) learnt over the past ten years?
I should also add that I don't agree with the OP -- UWE haven't "ruin(ed) all good in ns1", nor is that a fair critique of the enormous amount of work they continue to put into this game. They have, however, made some strange design decisions which I, and many others, disagree with.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1976982:date=Sep 13 2012, 01:38 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 13 2012, 01:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976982"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->25 dollars is now "rather expensive"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For a multiplayer only game in 2012, yes. I would even say that "rather" is an understatement.
<!--quoteo(post=1976728:date=Sep 13 2012, 02:15 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 13 2012, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... you forgot the part where that thread was based off an old build before the recent massive lerk buffs. But again, you don't actually play this game, you just complain about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You mean the minor changes that made no appreciable difference in practice? Maybe <i>you</i> should play the game more.
<!--quoteo(post=1976728:date=Sep 12 2012, 09:15 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 09:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... you forgot the part where that thread was based off an old build before the recent massive lerk buffs. But again, you don't actually play this game, you just complain about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerks aren't that good still until they fix his tech tree, he won't be used much in competitive games because of this and this is why I thought the latest patch wasn't thought through too well with some of the lerk buffs. What exactly went on in play testing? As for the gorge their healing is crazy good and spit can out-dps a couple of marines, too bad hitreg is so messed up at the moment, or he might just be op.
<!--quoteo(post=1976986:date=Sep 13 2012, 08:44 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Sep 13 2012, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976986"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->For a multiplayer only game in 2012, yes. I would even say that "rather" is an understatement.
You mean the minor changes that made no appreciable difference in practice? Maybe <i>you</i> should play the game more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I would say its rather inexpensive, but opinions are what they are.
As well, spores are actually exceptionally effective against large groups of marines in high population public games. The Lerk changes in 219 have greatly improved the late game utility of the lifeform.
I still think it needs some work, and I certainly don't think the Lerk is particularly viable in competitive games quite yet, but these changes were a step in the right direction.
Is this the part where I say "maybe <i>you</i> should play the game more?"
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited September 2012
<!--quoteo(post=1976980:date=Sep 13 2012, 01:28 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Sep 13 2012, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976980"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is true and I have no doubts this game will keep improving, but:
1. NS1 was a free mod, NS2 is a (rather expensive) standalone game. 2. Why repeat the mistakes they/we (should've) learnt over the past ten years?
I should also add that I don't agree with the OP -- UWE haven't "ruin(ed) all good in ns1", nor is that a fair critique of the enormous amount of work they continue to put into this game. They have, however, made some strange design decisions which I, and many others, disagree with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not for a minute suggesting that people should pay money and accept sub-par products, or that we should apply the same quality standard to a commercial game that we applied to a mod back in the day.
I was addressing the claim that NS2 ruined everything good about NS1 and I was specifically pointing out that the OP is comparing version 1 of NS2 to version 3.2 of NS1, which is disingenuous to say the least.
<!--quoteo(post=1977008:date=Sep 13 2012, 09:41 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (puzl @ Sep 13 2012, 09:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977008"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was addressing the claim that NS2 ruined everything good about NS1 and I was specifically pointing out that the OP is comparing version 1 of NS2 to version 3.2 of NS1, which is disingenuous to say the least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I honestly think this is a point that needs to be made more often, or ideally understood better by the community. NS 1.04 was a very different game from NS 3.2, or even from NS 2.0 for that matter. Natural Selection continued to evolve as UWE responded to community feedback and game testing, over a period of years after it as initially released.
While its well and good that we have fond memories of that game, its successor is in many ways different, and I think we would all do better to keep in mind UWE's rather impressive commitment to listening to their community as we continue such discussions regarding NS2's development, rather than simply assuming their decisions are bad simply because you don't like them.
NS2 hasn't even reached release yet, and while we are close, it is important to remember that NS1's release was merely a milestone in its long development history. I suspect we shall see the same for NS2.
And honestly, that kind of commitment from a developer is worth investing in.
<!--quoteo(post=1976704:date=Sep 12 2012, 06:48 PM:name=internetexplorer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (internetexplorer @ Sep 12 2012, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's very little cooperation because, again, half the tech in the game is bad. There's no notion of "splitting pres between players by choosing complementary roles" because classes like the gorge and lerk flat-out <b>suck</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
so im curious , what gorge/lerk changes would you implement.
<!--quoteo(post=1977040:date=Sep 13 2012, 10:41 AM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Sep 13 2012, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so im curious , what gorge/lerk changes would you implement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Easy, I'll answer that for you. Replace spikes with spores again,or even better make spores a 1 hive upgrade. This would make it so 1 hive strategies would be possible, not so it's always quick second hive until fade spam. I also <b>hope to god</b> that UWE doesn't just give fades a flat nerf. That would be a bad move for so many reasons. As for gorges, something as simple as being able to mark where you want the khamm to place structures would go a long way. Even better if it makes it cost a little bit less for the structure. I wish they would extend the beta because it would take a few mechanics like these to make NS2 a finished product, and they really need to be tested thoroughly.
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1975949:date=Sep 11 2012, 11:47 PM:name=kalakuja)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kalakuja @ Sep 11 2012, 11:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just can't see any way that these things have made ns2 a better game than ns1. Please help me understand.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Play for a few more hours and you will understand. Understanding comes through experience, not asking WTF? questions.
<!--quoteo(post=1977052:date=Sep 13 2012, 03:05 PM:name=Soul_Rider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Soul_Rider @ Sep 13 2012, 03:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1977052"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Play for a few more hours and you will understand. Understanding comes through experience, not asking WTF? questions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, asking should result in someone trying to explain the logic. If you can't argue for the changes even in text form, I doubt they'll be much better ingame.
And I by no means say that the changes are necessarily bad, but I think a lot of the frustration on these forums is exactly because of the 'wait and see' mantra. Too many times we've seen features run into obvious dead ends without anyone understanding why it had to be tried out. While such missteps are understandable, they really add up to the frustration in a development process as long as this one.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Lerk spores are in the game, they require a 2nd hive and research - there is no pistol whip.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They share a name, but the mechanic is very different.
Pistol whip in NS does not mean what you think it means. Don't ask me about etymology, but it refers to the NS1 pistol being dead accurate and having a high ROF so that you can pick of a stationary alien before they notice they are being fired upon. It kind of works in NS2 because the sound system is so bOrked that it sometimes takes a while to noticethat you are even getting shot.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Bunnyhopping was a product of the hl engine, not ns1. - wallhopping is currently broken.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bunnyhopping was never part of the engine. The player physics code is in the <b>mod</b> code. <i>I can remove bunnyhopping from a HL mod without ill effect</i>, you're saying Charlie and Max can't?
Bunnyhopping was kept on purpose. It was a good mechanic.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Without marine sprint it would be gg early as no one could get to rt's to save them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS maps where bigger and aliens had an even greater speed advantage. It worked fine, there's no reason it shouldn't now.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Personal res is actually nice for pubs etc so new players don't get stuck as skulks forever, you also have more freedom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens always had personal res(and only personal res). Marines always had team res(and only team res). This is part of the asymetry that made NS such a good game.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Fade blink being a resaerch is A, a good rez sink, and B it stops comms from dropping fade eggs early as they need a second hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've yet to see a good argument for why aliens need a comm.
I hate how people are fooled into thinking sprinting is a must have mechanic. Remove jump/backwards speed restrictions and buff marine base speed. Without any other movement mechanics it's perfectly fine. No need to unbind your s key or break a leg every time you jump.
Thank you. ns2 feels more like a public sort of game with lots of useless stuff to try out and getting killed has a little meaning. Have only played a few team scrims in ns2 but they had a same kind of feeling and watching some of ns2hd vids it seemed like that aswell. Are they balancing the game for public 8v8s?
I played NS1 a lot, and have been trying to get into NS2 to re-live what I used to love.
NS2 just does not feel the same, it feels like everything is forced, rather than fluid like NS1. I must admit I just watched the video posted previously of that mod made by Xdragon, and it to me is more appealing.
1 of my personal biggest peves atm is the sound of the skulk, they sound like a suction cup on walls, rather than something with sharp claws digging into metal which should be a more piercing sound - but thats just me and my imagination off on one!
NS1 was truly a great game, it just felt right - no matter what version, sure there was a steep learning curve but thats what made the game more fun and enjoyable, and made people improve.
Infestation - whilst being a cool idea and im not knocking the technology - I remember when seeing the first tech demos and thinking christ that looks awesome - sort of takes a bit of mistery out of the game as NS1 the majority of the areas were clean, and an unsuspecting marine, could quite easily walk round the corner into a wall of offence chambers for example, which would be kind of .... cool?
I understand the way that UWE have gone about trying to make something thats more commercially viable, to become a game studio, however if the game fell more in line with what NS1 used to be, just with better graphics and a few tweaks, the word of the community would have carried the game to a better level as it could quite easily become an eSport.
The removal of bunny hopping to make the game easier posted previously, I don't believe in, as when you get a bit of experience, you are able to track hoppers and shoot where they are going to land, so not really a valid point. Now if anything (this is personal and probably does not effect everyone - i find it a lot harder to track marines and skulks as they just seem to go over or through you rather than sticking to you which is really annoying!)
As the game stands at present, my honest feeling is that it should not be labelled as NS2 as it just does not feel anything like a follow on. Too many drastic things have changed, that differentiate the games. If UWE are trying to copy sort of the COD franchise, there aren't the same style sweeping changes across the board which makes the apple fall very far from the tree. From a COD point of view as well Combat would have been very similar!
I hope that elements of this thread are taken into account by UWE or that the mod by XDragon comes to light to make a playable verson of NS as a sequal.
I hate how people are fooled into thinking sprinting is a must have mechanic. Remove jump/backwards speed restrictions and buff marine base speed. Without any other movement mechanics it's perfectly fine. No need to unbind your s key or break a leg every time you jump.
Backpedaling was severely nerfed in NS1 as well, and for good reason, marines could kite skulks effortlessly. And marines that constantly spammed jump were never fun to fight against either. Now you have a few good jumps and you better make good use of them as a marine when facing skulks.
This isn't a deathmatch arena shooter where bunny hopping actually enhances the gameplay, NS was always a more tactical, calculated team based shooter.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
<!--quoteo(post=1981884:date=Sep 23 2012, 11:05 AM:name=Onii-chan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onii-chan @ Sep 23 2012, 11:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1981884"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS was always a more tactical, calculated team based shooter.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And yet they seemed to have removed the tactics, calculation and need to be a team in ns2. also it's not a shooter, its an rts with shooter mechanics (or it should be, anyway)
IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
edited September 2012
I never liked spikes. Lerks purely with bite made it so you could actually had to make yourself vulnerable to damage structures and other players, as you had to be within the certain melee radius. Now lerks can just spin in the air and circle around stationary targets while most marines(non skilled or lacking a strong pc) will be unable to shoot the lerk down.
Comments
Yeah, and I don't mean it as a jab at UWE either. They do a LOT with very few (and very talented) people.
The problem is that you can't make far-reaching decisions based on posts from the 10 most frenetic people in this community. It hasn't worked so far and it's not going to start working. Debating mechanics that are too deeply built into the game to be removed is not that useful...but it doesn't mean they're good. In a lot of cases, things were justified with blanket statements like "user friendliness!" and "making comebacks easier!" because those are hip in game development, not because they are good for ns2. What you end up with is a community where 50% of the people say "I like the new feature I've barely tried!" and the other 50% say "I don't like it because it's not like in Quake". You end up with a big fat sack of useless feedback and leave it as it is.
Lmao thanks for de-legitimizing everything you ever said ever with those 6 words. Maybe you should play this game a few times, then comment.
sorry you're right the lerk is good that's why there's a 10 page thread on the front page with everyone saying it isn't
... you forgot the part where that thread was based off an old build before the recent massive lerk buffs. But again, you don't actually play this game, you just complain about it.
Lerk doesnt suck but it isnt good either
Gorge, compared to what it was in NS1, is very bland and the second GLs come up half his job (area denial) is pretty impossible to do.
skulks are fine, a slight speed buff to make up for the wall hopping going would be nice but not really needed, especially since celerity or leap very rapidly is the standard now.
As for those saying no blink fade is doable how do you deal with shotties? I can pick off solo or pairs of machinegun marines sure but the second theres more than 2 or a shotgun it becomes a death sentance to go in without blink. Not that that's a bad thing but how do I get around it?
You think blink's primary application is traveling around the map?
<!--quoteo(post=1976627:date=Sep 12 2012, 07:59 PM:name=DggMuffin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DggMuffin @ Sep 12 2012, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976627"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3) Early game marines need sprint, they are as slow as exos without it (slow being a tradeoff for the heavy guns/armor). Again, they have to stop to shoot, so I don't see the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I realize this is not NS1 but it seems to me many of the core concepts are the same, and marines seemed to have no trouble then and no one even had any thoughts of sprint. Also most people dont realize you sprint nearly 1.5 times faster with your axe out.
<!--quoteo(post=1976721:date=Sep 12 2012, 09:09 PM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 12 2012, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976721"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lmao thanks for de-legitimizing everything you ever said ever with those 6 words. Maybe you should play this game a few times, then comment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you judge the legitimacy of someones words based on other things they said rather than the words themselves then you are probably committing some sort of fallacy, and more importantly there is little point trying to discuss things with you.
Sorry, I wasn't very clear in my post. I use blink to get in and out of fights (and map movement when adren is up), but SS in combat is almost as good as blink imo (purely b/c of its spam-able nature when jumping right after SS). Of course it cant deal with JP's, but I can get in and out almost as fast with SS.
NS2 is not perfect, but I think the initial release of NS2 is a much much better game than the initial release of NS1 was, and I am confident that with a full-time team working on evolving NS2 with post-release updates, it will reach a stable state much more quickly than NS1 did.
Tell me how much stuff is missing.
Lol
NS2 is not perfect, but I think the initial release of NS2 is a much much better game than the initial release of NS1 was, and I am confident that with a full-time team working on evolving NS2 with post-release updates, it will reach a stable state much more quickly than NS1 did.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true and I have no doubts this game will keep improving, but:
1. NS1 was a free mod, NS2 is a (rather expensive) standalone game.
2. Why repeat the mistakes they/we (should've) learnt over the past ten years?
I should also add that I don't agree with the OP -- UWE haven't "ruin(ed) all good in ns1", nor is that a fair critique of the enormous amount of work they continue to put into this game. They have, however, made some strange design decisions which I, and many others, disagree with.
For a multiplayer only game in 2012, yes. I would even say that "rather" is an understatement.
<!--quoteo(post=1976728:date=Sep 13 2012, 02:15 AM:name=antacid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antacid @ Sep 13 2012, 02:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1976728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... you forgot the part where that thread was based off an old build before the recent massive lerk buffs. But again, you don't actually play this game, you just complain about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean the minor changes that made no appreciable difference in practice? Maybe <i>you</i> should play the game more.
Lerks aren't that good still until they fix his tech tree, he won't be used much in competitive games because of this and this is why I thought the latest patch wasn't thought through too well with some of the lerk buffs. What exactly went on in play testing? As for the gorge their healing is crazy good and spit can out-dps a couple of marines, too bad hitreg is so messed up at the moment, or he might just be op.
You mean the minor changes that made no appreciable difference in practice? Maybe <i>you</i> should play the game more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I would say its rather inexpensive, but opinions are what they are.
As well, spores are actually exceptionally effective against large groups of marines in high population public games. The Lerk changes in 219 have greatly improved the late game utility of the lifeform.
I still think it needs some work, and I certainly don't think the Lerk is particularly viable in competitive games quite yet, but these changes were a step in the right direction.
Is this the part where I say "maybe <i>you</i> should play the game more?"
1. NS1 was a free mod, NS2 is a (rather expensive) standalone game.
2. Why repeat the mistakes they/we (should've) learnt over the past ten years?
I should also add that I don't agree with the OP -- UWE haven't "ruin(ed) all good in ns1", nor is that a fair critique of the enormous amount of work they continue to put into this game. They have, however, made some strange design decisions which I, and many others, disagree with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not for a minute suggesting that people should pay money and accept sub-par products, or that we should apply the same quality standard to a commercial game that we applied to a mod back in the day.
I was addressing the claim that NS2 ruined everything good about NS1 and I was specifically pointing out that the OP is comparing version 1 of NS2 to version 3.2 of NS1, which is disingenuous to say the least.
I honestly think this is a point that needs to be made more often, or ideally understood better by the community. NS 1.04 was a very different game from NS 3.2, or even from NS 2.0 for that matter. Natural Selection continued to evolve as UWE responded to community feedback and game testing, over a period of years after it as initially released.
While its well and good that we have fond memories of that game, its successor is in many ways different, and I think we would all do better to keep in mind UWE's rather impressive commitment to listening to their community as we continue such discussions regarding NS2's development, rather than simply assuming their decisions are bad simply because you don't like them.
NS2 hasn't even reached release yet, and while we are close, it is important to remember that NS1's release was merely a milestone in its long development history. I suspect we shall see the same for NS2.
And honestly, that kind of commitment from a developer is worth investing in.
so im curious , what gorge/lerk changes would you implement.
Easy, I'll answer that for you. Replace spikes with spores again,or even better make spores a 1 hive upgrade. This would make it so 1 hive strategies would be possible, not so it's always quick second hive until fade spam. I also <b>hope to god</b> that UWE doesn't just give fades a flat nerf. That would be a bad move for so many reasons. As for gorges, something as simple as being able to mark where you want the khamm to place structures would go a long way. Even better if it makes it cost a little bit less for the structure. I wish they would extend the beta because it would take a few mechanics like these to make NS2 a finished product, and they really need to be tested thoroughly.
Play for a few more hours and you will understand. Understanding comes through experience, not asking WTF? questions.
Well, asking should result in someone trying to explain the logic. If you can't argue for the changes even in text form, I doubt they'll be much better ingame.
And I by no means say that the changes are necessarily bad, but I think a lot of the frustration on these forums is exactly because of the 'wait and see' mantra. Too many times we've seen features run into obvious dead ends without anyone understanding why it had to be tried out. While such missteps are understandable, they really add up to the frustration in a development process as long as this one.
They share a name, but the mechanic is very different.
Pistol whip in NS does not mean what you think it means. Don't ask me about etymology, but it refers to the NS1 pistol being dead accurate and having a high ROF so that you can pick of a stationary alien before they notice they are being fired upon. It kind of works in NS2 because the sound system is so bOrked that it sometimes takes a while to noticethat you are even getting shot.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Bunnyhopping was a product of the hl engine, not ns1. - wallhopping is currently broken.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bunnyhopping was never part of the engine. The player physics code is in the <b>mod</b> code. <i>I can remove bunnyhopping from a HL mod without ill effect</i>, you're saying Charlie and Max can't?
Bunnyhopping was kept on purpose. It was a good mechanic.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Without marine sprint it would be gg early as no one could get to rt's to save them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS maps where bigger and aliens had an even greater speed advantage. It worked fine, there's no reason it shouldn't now.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Personal res is actually nice for pubs etc so new players don't get stuck as skulks forever, you also have more freedom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aliens always had personal res(and only personal res). Marines always had team res(and only team res). This is part of the asymetry that made NS such a good game.
<!--quoteo(post=1975953:date=Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM:name=Flipper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flipper @ Sep 11 2012, 05:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1975953"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Fade blink being a resaerch is A, a good rez sink, and B it stops comms from dropping fade eggs early as they need a second hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've yet to see a good argument for why aliens need a comm.
ns2 feels more like a public sort of game with lots of useless stuff to try out and getting killed has a little meaning. Have only played a few team scrims in ns2 but they had a same kind of feeling and watching some of ns2hd vids it seemed like that aswell.
Are they balancing the game for public 8v8s?
NS2 just does not feel the same, it feels like everything is forced, rather than fluid like NS1. I must admit I just watched the video posted previously of that mod made by Xdragon, and it to me is more appealing.
1 of my personal biggest peves atm is the sound of the skulk, they sound like a suction cup on walls, rather than something with sharp claws digging into metal which should be a more piercing sound - but thats just me and my imagination off on one!
NS1 was truly a great game, it just felt right - no matter what version, sure there was a steep learning curve but thats what made the game more fun and enjoyable, and made people improve.
Infestation - whilst being a cool idea and im not knocking the technology - I remember when seeing the first tech demos and thinking christ that looks awesome - sort of takes a bit of mistery out of the game as NS1 the majority of the areas were clean, and an unsuspecting marine, could quite easily walk round the corner into a wall of offence chambers for example, which would be kind of .... cool?
I understand the way that UWE have gone about trying to make something thats more commercially viable, to become a game studio, however if the game fell more in line with what NS1 used to be, just with better graphics and a few tweaks, the word of the community would have carried the game to a better level as it could quite easily become an eSport.
The removal of bunny hopping to make the game easier posted previously, I don't believe in, as when you get a bit of experience, you are able to track hoppers and shoot where they are going to land, so not really a valid point. Now if anything (this is personal and probably does not effect everyone - i find it a lot harder to track marines and skulks as they just seem to go over or through you rather than sticking to you which is really annoying!)
As the game stands at present, my honest feeling is that it should not be labelled as NS2 as it just does not feel anything like a follow on. Too many drastic things have changed, that differentiate the games. If UWE are trying to copy sort of the COD franchise, there aren't the same style sweeping changes across the board which makes the apple fall very far from the tree. From a COD point of view as well Combat would have been very similar!
I hope that elements of this thread are taken into account by UWE or that the mod by XDragon comes to light to make a playable verson of NS as a sequal.
+1 !!
And marines that constantly spammed jump were never fun to fight against either.
Now you have a few good jumps and you better make good use of them as a marine when facing skulks.
This isn't a deathmatch arena shooter where bunny hopping actually enhances the gameplay, NS was always a more tactical, calculated team based shooter.
And yet they seemed to have removed the tactics, calculation and need to be a team in ns2.
also it's not a shooter, its an rts with shooter mechanics (or it should be, anyway)