It’s clear that Unknown Worlds likes marines more than aliens. Point in fact, last patch they reduced the egg regeneration time by 25%. I have to ask why? Point in fact; when I decide to play NS2 I click the players tab to join a server. I have yet to see 12 player servers topping the list, I see 18, 20, 24 player servers. The egg regeneration is just killing aliens in larger games and right now, that is what is out there.
Unknown Worlds, do you think this game will sell or play at a 6v6 game or 12v12 game?
In my personal opinion, stop brutally killing the game and the maps. Make the game fun for players that are new to the game or not that good, and not even for pro-players.
<!--quoteo(post=1990111:date=Oct 11 2012, 09:54 PM:name=Know pain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Know pain @ Oct 11 2012, 09:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It’s clear that Unknown Worlds likes marines more than aliens. Point in fact, last patch they reduced the egg regeneration time by 25%. I have to ask why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was done along with the removal of "emergency egg spawning" because in pubs the entire alien team would skulk rush and die. They would spawn so many emergency eggs that they all respawned in 15 seconds and were all back in the marine base right away.
<!--quoteo(post=1990109:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:50 AM:name=Princess_of_Power)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Princess_of_Power @ Oct 12 2012, 05:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990109"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- a lot of people are mistaking the bite width reduction as a nerf when it's actually a fairly good gameplay change. it basically just increases the skill ceiling so that there is actually a large difference between an average skulk and a good skulk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually not entirely true. This change lowers the skill floor but the skill ceiling remains the same (I.E. If you were good at aiming bites in the last build then you'll still be pretty good, but if you were bad at aiming you are now going to struggle more)
It would only raise the skill ceiling if at the same time as making aiming harder they also made the bite more powerful, so that having perfect aim this build would be superior than having perfect aim in the previous build, as well as being more difficult.
It's not more powerful, it's just harder to use which is a straight nerf.
I agree that a change was needed though (I haven't played the current build yet to test it) in the last build it was too easy to aim the bites. This change is good in theory because it rewards players for good aiming.
<!--quoteo(post=1990018:date=Oct 11 2012, 07:18 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 11 2012, 07:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990018"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did they not change anything or was it just missed in the patch notes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well seeing as i can get 9+ speed wall jumping now ... its seems to have changed. But it could be bugged, you never know :P
<!--quoteo(post=1990092:date=Oct 12 2012, 03:33 PM:name=Joseppe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Joseppe @ Oct 12 2012, 03:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990092"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->=> conclusion: didnt noticed the phase gate under the location title (under the second "o" character of "Operations" on minimap on screenshot below)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^ exactly what i was talking about. Map needs a revert pretty please with clogs on top :)
<!--quoteo(post=1990114:date=Oct 11 2012, 10:02 PM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 11 2012, 10:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually not entirely true. This change lowers the skill floor but the skill ceiling remains the same (I.E. If you were good at aiming bites in the last build then you'll still be pretty good, but if you were bad at aiming you are now going to struggle more)
It would only raise the skill ceiling if at the same time as making aiming harder they also made the bite more powerful, so that having perfect aim this build would be superior than having perfect aim in the previous build, as well as being more difficult.
It's not more powerful, it's just harder to use which is a straight nerf.
I agree that a change was needed though (I haven't played the current build yet to test it) in the last build it was too easy to aim the bites. This change is good in theory because it rewards players for good aiming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> oops fixed. you're right, I meant the same concept but mixed up the phrasing.
doesn't really appear to have much impact at all but plenty of people are complaining about aliens being underpowered. that I won't deny; however, it's just for other reasons.
<!--quoteo(post=1990038:date=Oct 12 2012, 12:42 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 12:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990038"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulk bite was ###### stupid last patch. It needed a major nerf, no one was ever missing bites. If you were missing bites it says more about you as a player then the game itself. Myself, scatter, and a few of the other comp players in australia all thought bite needed a major nerf.
The skulk should not auto win just cause he managed to get in close... aiming your bites was a very important ns1 skill
TBH, I'm the only one building arc's to ###### around in pub games on the aus server. I'm yet to see anyone else do it... This will make ARC's must more useable and less punishing if you loose them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well I think you might know I am not the worlds best skilk...but for from teh worst either. You would miss bites when marines would start trying to jump like rabbits on crack...besides you have already done the hard part and get close.
Not everyone is at the same level as you and scatter...some of us are seemingly mortal. Just because you never missed a bite doesn't mean the rest of the australian players have not.
Arcs dont need to be cheaper...reason they dissappeared is because everyone thought exo was the game winner.
Aliens is boring to play now...I never enjoyed marines in NS1...found I had too much trouble getting kills. Not so in NS2....oh well.
This is a picture of the comm chair bug. I could just tell you outright what it is, but I like to tell stories.
Well, I joined a server and it was the start of a match. Somehow this guy (can't remember his full name, but I nicknamed him "Vit") stood on the front panel of the comm chair and mashed the button to open and close it. His body was clipping in and out of the chair. After like a minute, he closed the chair and backed out (which he could do because he was partly clipped outside the chair). So what we got was a closed comm chair with nobody in it. And nobody COULD get in it.
He did it next match as well. Okay, fine. I encouraged him to. I could have done it after watching him, but I didn't want to take the blame for screwing up the game. For some reason my immature mind found this extremely funny. We had fun dancing on the top of the CC.
It was all fine and dandy until some guy threatened the use of an admin on us. Thus ended our fun. Oh well.
I'm actually pretty sure the guy knew how to do the bug before 222, but I'm not sure. So, if you can, fix it. It's honestly pretty easy to do and if everyone found out could either be a disaster or it might just lead to some fun social moments. Although some tryhards might get mad. So it's probably a better idea to fix it :/
I saw it happen in flight control and sub on summit. Pretty sure it can only happen with Marine comm chairs as they close when entered Would assume it can be done on other maps as well.
Sorry for the picture being in an attachment and for being so low res and small. New to the forums and pic link didn't work.
Played a few games tonight. Here's my feelings/thoughts (as well as many that were playing on the servers):
<ul><li><!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Feels really difficult to kill a marine now.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I mean seriously, if all you can see is their feet/legs and the frame rates drop in combat, it's really hard to get a bite in.</li><li><!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Marines are killing aliens through walls<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->: <ul><li>Either a significant amount of time getting away from a marine and all of a sudden you die. Happens a lot. Very unnerving when you are dying when you shouldn't.</li><li>Or you're being burned by a flame thrower through a wall/vent that they can't actually shoot a weapon at your position.</li></ul> </li><li> <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Marines seemed to be winning more/easier.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li><li> As marine-comm: <b><!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Dropping buildings like phase-gates and robo-factories do not place as expected! Typical 90 degree rotation! And in some cases they simply move across the room!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></li><li> <!--coloro:#98FB98--><span style="color:#98FB98"><!--/coloro-->On the other hand performance has never been better, and as a result the game has never looked better. :)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li></ul>
Marines received better aim, arc's are back again. This patch feels marines got the better end of the patch. Please, reconsider buffing aliens in the next patch. I am tired of having marines winning most of the games. And, now this patch makes it even more easier for them to win faster. I was hoping to see more buffs for aliens on this patch. Since, most of the games before this patch are marines winning. Most servers everyone is waiting to join Marines instead of Aliens. I don't even know why ARC's got a huge buff.
Most of these changes seem as though marines are getting a buff, but really its just making marines have more viable tech choices. THey have not buffed arc's, they have made them a VIABLE tech choice. B220 and below they were not afforable as they were too risky / an investment compared to other tech paths.
I really don't understand why some of you are saying skulk is so hard to play or bite is impossible. This leading to you finding aliens unenjoyable... I only notice this when playing against very skilled marines because of the skill ceiling of skulks being very low (no skilled movement) vs the skill ceiling of marines being very high (100% accuracy).
I don't know what they have done with b222 walljump (still at work) but if they have finally fixed it and made it usable (speed 10-13) this should help.
<!--quoteo(post=1990128:date=Oct 11 2012, 10:13 PM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 11 2012, 10:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990128"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't understand why some of you are saying skulk is so hard to play or bite is impossible. This leading to you finding aliens unenjoyable... I only notice this when playing against very skilled marines because of the skill ceiling of skulks being very low (no skilled movement) vs the skill ceiling of marines being very high (100% accuracy).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you bite your whole screen turns black and you lose sight. If they make skulks not have it so your screen turns black when you bite than it might give aliens a better chance in pushing the marine rush. I don't know why the eyeballs in skulks are inside the mouth. When ever I bite I lose sight and find myself missing my 2nd bite and 4th bite. Maybe it takes more skill but atm it is very tough. But, most of the time I get 1 shooted by marines now, so I can't even bite now lol
<!--quoteo(post=1990130:date=Oct 12 2012, 04:25 PM:name=Mango)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mango @ Oct 12 2012, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When you bite your whole screen turns black and you lose sight. If they make skulks not have it so your screen turns black when you bite than it might give aliens a better chance in pushing the marine rush. I don't know why the eyeballs in skulks are inside the mouth. When ever I bite I lose sight and find myself missing my 2nd bite and 4th bite. Maybe it takes more skill but atm it is very tough. But, most of the time I get 1 shooted by marines now, so I can't even bite now lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay.
Without sounding like i'm an elitist it is literally just L2p. My only bit of advice can be to not hold down bite (mouse1) and instead only bite when the marine is on your screen. This will lessen the disorientation experienced by your screen blacking in and out 2 times a second.
I went through the same thing 10 years ago when 1.04 was released :) No one said NS was an easy game, it is afterall why so many of us love the game and it has so much replayability.
<!--quoteo(post=1990128:date=Oct 12 2012, 07:13 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 07:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990128"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most of these changes seem as though marines are getting a buff, but really its just making marines have more viable tech choices. THey have not buffed arc's, they have made them a VIABLE tech choice. B220 and below they were not afforable as they were too risky / an investment compared to other tech paths.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In an competitive environment yes, in the public environment these changes only serve to balance the game even more in favor for marines. Because in public environments people seldom play by static build orders for timing pushes. As such this change will only increase "marine stuff spam".
<!--quoteo(post=1990128:date=Oct 12 2012, 07:13 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 07:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990128"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't understand why some of you are saying skulk is so hard to play or bite is impossible. This leading to you finding aliens unenjoyable... I only notice this when playing against very skilled marines because of the skill ceiling of skulks being very low (no skilled movement) vs the skill ceiling of marines being very high (100% accuracy).
I don't know what they have done with b222 walljump (still at work) but if they have finally fixed it and made it usable (speed 10-13) this should help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not that the skulk is "hard to play" it's that it's ###### boring to play. At this point i enjoy Marine movement way more than skulk movement because it feels way more skill based (and these changes sound like they will make Marine movement even more agile). As Marine i already jump circles around the majority of skulks, as skulk the most you can do is trying to use map geometry for cover and evade direct LoS to act as an decoy for other skulks, due to broken/crappy walljumping mechanics.
Let's also not forget that skulk bite range and width have been constantly nerfed over the last couple of builds, just to put leap/cele skulks more in line. What all this ignores: In nearly 3 weeks there will be at least 50.000 new players, most of them with a tendency to stack Marines and many of them with barely any FPS meele combat experience.
What do you think is gonna happen when "easy new player mode Marine" meets "Skulk, get better you simply suck mode"? It won't be pretty and it won't be fun. Comp players can talk about skill ceilings and "getting better" all they want, it won't change the fact that the basic gameplay of the Kharaa team will leave a horrible impression on new players, an impression that will most likely make them stack Marines even more.
I haven't played the new build yet, maybe walljumping is the awesome-sauce now (still sucks compared to original strafejumping as walljumping depends way too much on map geometry to actually work), maybe the fade will still be fun even without vertical shadowstepping (sound totally unfun, but hey let's give it a try). But right now a few of these changes feel like the exact opposite of what the game actually needs.
<!--quoteo(post=1990114:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:02 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 12 2012, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually not entirely true. This change lowers the skill floor but the skill ceiling remains the same (I.E. If you were good at aiming bites in the last build then you'll still be pretty good, but if you were bad at aiming you are now going to struggle more)
It would only raise the skill ceiling if at the same time as making aiming harder they also made the bite more powerful, so that having perfect aim this build would be superior than having perfect aim in the previous build, as well as being more difficult.
It's not more powerful, it's just harder to use which is a straight nerf.
I agree that a change was needed though (I haven't played the current build yet to test it) in the last build it was too easy to aim the bites. This change is good in theory because it rewards players for good aiming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This puts the whole problem in the right perspective, many of the "skulk nerfs" have been handled that way. Problem with this is that regular adaptive players will just adapt to the change as they are already used to the frantic and intense skulk meele combat. So overall potential of a good skulk is in no way diminished, the only permanent result is that an style of gameplay that's new (and as such difficult) will be way harder for new players to get into. And that's simply not a good direction to go with the most basic Kharaa unit that people spent most of their time with. In the end this only adds an needlessly steep learning curve to an game that's already stuffed up with steep learning curve mechanics.
I played the hell out of NS1. Best. Game. Ever. I could leap + 1 shot-kill-bite non-armored marines with ease (what was that upgrade called again?).
I was a good marine and a good alien because I played way too much. 10 years ago, I didn't have a job, a wife and kids. Okay, I still don't have kids....
I've played the NS2 beta a lot lately. My computer is awful. It's old. I get 30-40 fps when it doesn't count, and 5-15 when it counts. Lately, the fps has been getting better though. I can get a steady 15-25 in fights. It's not great, but playable most of the time.
The game is still in beta, and even when it's out, it'll be adjusted and updated for years. So I am not worried it will eventually be one of the greater games out there.
Nevertheless, I am still worried that the initial experience of new players will be very harsh.
As it stands, the game is freaking hardcore for new players who haven't played NS1, and I'm not even talking about skill. The sheer amount of things to learn and master can be discouraging. Learn the marine side, techs, weapons, mechanics. Learn the alien side, upgrades and abilities. Learn the maps. Learn commander mode. All of that is good and fun, altough it lacks some serious in-game tutorials and tools to make sure its a smooth learning curve.
But add to that the fact that most new alien players will have a life expectancy of 4 seconds, and it can get downright frustrating and overwhelming.
As it stands, I have played a lot, and tonight (in part because of my poor fps) I couldn't hit the broadest side of a barn. Obviously I am not a super skilled player, but I am far from being less than average. As it stands, I firmly believe that new customers will have an incredibly hard time adjusting to the level of skill required for the alien team.
I've also seen a tendency for marine teams to have insane Kill/death ratios compared to alien teams, even when the match is even. I frequently see the majority of a marine team with 4+ "kills per death" scores.
Dying 4 times to get 1 kill is not satisfying. While every game is different, and I enjoy both sides, the average marine vs skulk encounter is too hard for me. I get extatic if I simply break even in my KD.
Please upload your CHANGELOGS to the Steam NS2 News Site (http://store.steampowered.com/news/?feed=steam_updates&appids=4920) This way, each time you update the game, NS2 will show up under NEWS.
<!--quoteo(post=1990141:date=Oct 12 2012, 02:07 AM:name=Uh-Oh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uh-Oh @ Oct 12 2012, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dying 4 times to get 1 kill is not satisfying. While every game is different, and I enjoy both sides, the average marine vs skulk encounter is too hard for me. I get extatic if I simply break even in my KD.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good, keep it up and keep playing. That's the satisfying part.
Skulk bite seems fine I actually had an amazing back and forth game tonight. Aliens got 2 hives pretty quick, flight control and atrium, marines started in sub access. The initial alien comm for some reason didn't expand any further during the first 10 minutes or so and marines were spending most of their time pressuring the hive. We ejected the comm and I dropped crossroads, but marines got data and took atrium. Looked like we were going to lose as they were pushing flight and we lost it but then we got the power down in sub and we took back flight and atrium. Then marines came back and got sub again and took down flight so we only had atrium and crossroads. Then we got data power down and they lost everything. It was about a 100 minute game and I have to say it was one of the best I've had. The health drop on the arms lab was awesome, it really makes it more in line with the alien upgrades as far as a valid target.
<!--quoteo(post=1990102:date=Oct 12 2012, 02:42 PM:name=PsiWarp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsiWarp @ Oct 12 2012, 02:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990102"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If a Marine times his jump correctly, he can utilize the knockback generated by Skulk bite to get some distance. I believe this is intentional, but don't quote me on that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1990083:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:15 AM:name=Samus1111111)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Samus1111111 @ Oct 12 2012, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990083"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thoughts so far<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Posting my thoughts like Samus. Some of it is just like samus wrote it since i have the same feelins about it as he do.
Pros:
- Performance boost. | Feels quicker more responsive and + FPS. - Server browser. | Better but not even close to the menu mod. (Why you guys have it look like that is beyond me) - Skulk bite. | Felt more responsive, more precise. (Ppl just holding attack seams to be at a disadvantage, good job) - MaxFPS command. | Great, now please increase the scope of the command to >100
Cons:
- MaxFPS command. | Didn't allow me to increase above 100 fps ? - Skulk bite. | Haven't experienced this myself but looks bad, maybe it's different for structures ? - ARC trains. | Was chocked when i saw the huge changes to arcs. - Hive build time. | Was not needed. What was needed was to do something so aliens don't HAVE to have t2 tech to fight t1 tech marines.
Please, when making changes, try small to medium changes first. Going overboard (like on ARCs) and changing everything at once is very bad for the game.
Sentries. Babblers. More performance. More balance.
Last build i was hitting 5 bites and only 1 was registering out of them. if that got nerfed again, well, i'll stick with the marines. Maybe thats the bad performance or bad hit reg(?).... Well, sometimes i get insta-killed with 1 bite as marine.... the game only shows that i was hit once but registers 3 or more (and i do believe the opponent did bite all those times on me) but it sux, i cant predict anything... :\
Does the filter modded servers options get rid of servers that might just be using something like an admin mod or ns2 stats etc, that don't affect gameplay?
Arcs- Arcs needed a buff. Ever since the exo patch (217), they were only used if the game was already won and the comm just had a surplus of res. Exos couldn't be nerfed, because they're already easy enough to take out and they're a 50-75 res unit. By making Arcs faster and easier to get, they become closer to the beginning of the tech line and thus are more viable when breaking entrenched alien positions. Just tonight we had a ton of crags around a corner and the marine comm used a group of arcs to blast them to smithereens. This was a good decision.
The problem is that the game is already balanced in the marines' favor making this change look bad. I think that arcs needed a buff (not a damage buff), but something else on the marine side needed a nerf. Maybe a direct one (such as a FEW more bullets to kill a skulk) and an indirect one (longer and more costly to get W3 and A3?). Don't take these ideas to thought, as they are off the top of my head. But you get the point.
Skulk Bite- As of now, I'm not having HUGE issues with it. Sure others might be and I've had my share of screw-ups too. But it doesn't feel THAT big to me. I don't know, maybe I just didn't play long enough or maybe I just had good luck. I do think that it should have stayed the way it was in 221 though.
Regardless of effect, Aliens needed a BUFF, not a nerf. Recently they have been losing a little too much. I think it started with the exo patch. Personally, I think the exos are fine themselves. But they pushed the rest of everything else over the edge.
Alien Vs Marine Tech Tree- I actually think they work pretty well. Here I'm going to focus on some of the things that people have been most complaining about. A lot of betas seem to think that the fact Marines get phases and beacons is unfair. To understand why I view this IS fair, think back to how aliens are supposed to be played.
Aliens, even the fade relies on guerrilla tactics. Nothing, not even they Onos (under sustained fire) can take on a team of marines for an extended period of time. Marines, on the other hand fight from a distance and must keep the aliens in their line of fire for as long as they can. Traveling in groups increases the chance that spraying the assault rifle will score a kill, and will also severely cut down the distance an alien will be able to remain in your sight. Skulks and fades might even liken themselves to a boggart (Harry Potter reference anyone?) and will now know who to attack. If an alien hits three marines with a bite each, none will be killed and they will all continue pushing. The point is, marines are strongest in an organized siege, and aliens are strongest with hit-run fighting, maybe even hitting/running in groups (skulk rush).
For this reason, Marines are given tools to combat how fast aliens can move on the map. One being the phase. Without it, Marines would spend far too much time going from place to place. It is their saving grace. But if it is destroyed, either a forward operating base is cut off, or a push is put on hold. Their reliance on them is much like their reliance on a power node.
The beacon is also one of these tools. If a base is in grave danger of being destroyed, a marine commander may choose to beacon his entire team to a specific point. This can be a game-saver. The power node rush can end a game in an instant, and is the alien teams greatest weapon. This is countered by the beacon, preventing many early to mid-game finishes.
But a beacon can leave other locations on the map undefended for a short while. The alien team can choose to abandon their initial push and rush everything else. Another drawback to the beacon is the fact that exos cannot be teleported, leaving them defenseless It is a double-edged sword: teleporting your team to areas of distress can save you as much as it can cripple you.
The movement system between the two teams is different, but runs parallel. Marines funnel themselves out of a point to their destination, cutting the distance between their target. Aliens use raw speed to get from place to place. Contrary to what people have stated, they DO have upgrades for their movement, in the form of things like celerity, adrenaline, and leap. They even get some of these for free, which mirrors the W3/A3 thing everyone is so fussy about.
Don't get me wrong: Aliens need a buff. The game shouldn't be released like this. Their damage, health... anything. Fortunately, we still have time for one or two more patches. People will scorn me for saying this, but they is still time. And with the level of complaining being done, I'm pretty sure UWE has noticed. Really, you can't go one comment page without seeing how many are not liking how aliens play now.
And of course the performance improvements are good. I'm actually confident that buyers won't be raging all over the forums that they can't play the game. But one thing still needs to be addressed. The freezing. God, it burns! Is this the server issue you've tweeted about fixing? If so, then thanks, and sorry for looking like I'm complaining about a BETA. Although, I would still like to point out that there is this weird flickering issue with the game. I'm not sure if this is confined to aliens (as I have been playing them a lot at the moment) but I think it might be the night-vision blinking. Don't take my word as god's though. It could be a universal screen bug.
Anyway, whatever happens... hats off to you guys at UWE. You're amazing. I'm glad I pre-ordered and got to test the Beta. It's been an honor.
Did they fix skulk movement mechanics? Increasing hive build time won't do anything, quick hives are a symptom of an underlying cause (i.e 1 hive alien play being non viable)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ARC needed to be more viable, but I am surprised no changes were made to prevent trains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> AFAIK the splash damage to each-other is still in? Granted I think that's a pretty terrible solution to stop them from being spammed (hidden modifier!), UWE seems to be convinced that this will suffice. Anyway, not going to bother with ARCs until sentries are fixed.
Comments
Unknown Worlds, do you think this game will sell or play at a 6v6 game or 12v12 game?
In my personal opinion, stop brutally killing the game and the maps. Make the game fun for players that are new to the game or not that good, and not even for pro-players.
This was done along with the removal of "emergency egg spawning" because in pubs the entire alien team would skulk rush and die. They would spawn so many emergency eggs that they all respawned in 15 seconds and were all back in the marine base right away.
Actually not entirely true. This change lowers the skill floor but the skill ceiling remains the same (I.E. If you were good at aiming bites in the last build then you'll still be pretty good, but if you were bad at aiming you are now going to struggle more)
It would only raise the skill ceiling if at the same time as making aiming harder they also made the bite more powerful, so that having perfect aim this build would be superior than having perfect aim in the previous build, as well as being more difficult.
It's not more powerful, it's just harder to use which is a straight nerf.
I agree that a change was needed though (I haven't played the current build yet to test it) in the last build it was too easy to aim the bites. This change is good in theory because it rewards players for good aiming.
Well seeing as i can get 9+ speed wall jumping now ... its seems to have changed.
But it could be bugged, you never know :P
(under the second "o" character of "Operations" on minimap on screenshot below)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^ exactly what i was talking about. Map needs a revert pretty please with clogs on top :)
It would only raise the skill ceiling if at the same time as making aiming harder they also made the bite more powerful, so that having perfect aim this build would be superior than having perfect aim in the previous build, as well as being more difficult.
It's not more powerful, it's just harder to use which is a straight nerf.
I agree that a change was needed though (I haven't played the current build yet to test it) in the last build it was too easy to aim the bites. This change is good in theory because it rewards players for good aiming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
oops fixed. you're right, I meant the same concept but mixed up the phrasing.
doesn't really appear to have much impact at all but plenty of people are complaining about aliens being underpowered. that I won't deny; however, it's just for other reasons.
The skulk should not auto win just cause he managed to get in close... aiming your bites was a very important ns1 skill
TBH, I'm the only one building arc's to ###### around in pub games on the aus server. I'm yet to see anyone else do it... This will make ARC's must more useable and less punishing if you loose them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well I think you might know I am not the worlds best skilk...but for from teh worst either.
You would miss bites when marines would start trying to jump like rabbits on crack...besides you have already done the hard part and get close.
Not everyone is at the same level as you and scatter...some of us are seemingly mortal.
Just because you never missed a bite doesn't mean the rest of the australian players have not.
Arcs dont need to be cheaper...reason they dissappeared is because everyone thought exo was the game winner.
Aliens is boring to play now...I never enjoyed marines in NS1...found I had too much trouble getting kills.
Not so in NS2....oh well.
This is a picture of the comm chair bug. I could just tell you outright what it is, but I like to tell stories.
Well, I joined a server and it was the start of a match. Somehow this guy (can't remember his full name, but I nicknamed him "Vit") stood on the front panel of the comm chair and mashed the button to open and close it. His body was clipping in and out of the chair. After like a minute, he closed the chair and backed out (which he could do because he was partly clipped outside the chair). So what we got was a closed comm chair with nobody in it. And nobody COULD get in it.
He did it next match as well. Okay, fine. I encouraged him to. I could have done it after watching him, but I didn't want to take the blame for screwing up the game. For some reason my immature mind found this extremely funny. We had fun dancing on the top of the CC.
It was all fine and dandy until some guy threatened the use of an admin on us. Thus ended our fun. Oh well.
I'm actually pretty sure the guy knew how to do the bug before 222, but I'm not sure. So, if you can, fix it. It's honestly pretty easy to do and if everyone found out could either be a disaster or it might just lead to some fun social moments. Although some tryhards might get mad. So it's probably a better idea to fix it :/
I saw it happen in flight control and sub on summit. Pretty sure it can only happen with Marine comm chairs as they close when entered Would assume it can be done on other maps as well.
Sorry for the picture being in an attachment and for being so low res and small. New to the forums and pic link didn't work.
<ul><li><!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Feels really difficult to kill a marine now.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> I mean seriously, if all you can see is their feet/legs and the frame rates drop in combat, it's really hard to get a bite in.</li><li><!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Marines are killing aliens through walls<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->:
<ul><li>Either a significant amount of time getting away from a marine and all of a sudden you die. Happens a lot. Very unnerving when you are dying when you shouldn't.</li><li>Or you're being burned by a flame thrower through a wall/vent that they can't actually shoot a weapon at your position.</li></ul>
</li><li> <!--coloro:#F5DEB3--><span style="color:#F5DEB3"><!--/coloro-->Marines seemed to be winning more/easier.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li><li> As marine-comm: <b><!--coloro:#F4A460--><span style="color:#F4A460"><!--/coloro-->Dropping buildings like phase-gates and robo-factories do not place as expected! Typical 90 degree rotation! And in some cases they simply move across the room!<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></b></li><li> <!--coloro:#98FB98--><span style="color:#98FB98"><!--/coloro-->On the other hand performance has never been better, and as a result the game has never looked better. :)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--></li></ul>
I really don't understand why some of you are saying skulk is so hard to play or bite is impossible. This leading to you finding aliens unenjoyable... I only notice this when playing against very skilled marines because of the skill ceiling of skulks being very low (no skilled movement) vs the skill ceiling of marines being very high (100% accuracy).
I don't know what they have done with b222 walljump (still at work) but if they have finally fixed it and made it usable (speed 10-13) this should help.
When you bite your whole screen turns black and you lose sight. If they make skulks not have it so your screen turns black when you bite than it might give aliens a better chance in pushing the marine rush. I don't know why the eyeballs in skulks are inside the mouth. When ever I bite I lose sight and find myself missing my 2nd bite and 4th bite. Maybe it takes more skill but atm it is very tough. But, most of the time I get 1 shooted by marines now, so I can't even bite now lol
Okay.
Without sounding like i'm an elitist it is literally just L2p. My only bit of advice can be to not hold down bite (mouse1) and instead only bite when the marine is on your screen. This will lessen the disorientation experienced by your screen blacking in and out 2 times a second.
I went through the same thing 10 years ago when 1.04 was released :) No one said NS was an easy game, it is afterall why so many of us love the game and it has so much replayability.
In an competitive environment yes, in the public environment these changes only serve to balance the game even more in favor for marines. Because in public environments people seldom play by static build orders for timing pushes. As such this change will only increase "marine stuff spam".
<!--quoteo(post=1990128:date=Oct 12 2012, 07:13 AM:name=male_fatalities)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (male_fatalities @ Oct 12 2012, 07:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990128"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I really don't understand why some of you are saying skulk is so hard to play or bite is impossible. This leading to you finding aliens unenjoyable... I only notice this when playing against very skilled marines because of the skill ceiling of skulks being very low (no skilled movement) vs the skill ceiling of marines being very high (100% accuracy).
I don't know what they have done with b222 walljump (still at work) but if they have finally fixed it and made it usable (speed 10-13) this should help.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not that the skulk is "hard to play" it's that it's ###### boring to play. At this point i enjoy Marine movement way more than skulk movement because it feels way more skill based (and these changes sound like they will make Marine movement even more agile). As Marine i already jump circles around the majority of skulks, as skulk the most you can do is trying to use map geometry for cover and evade direct LoS to act as an decoy for other skulks, due to broken/crappy walljumping mechanics.
Let's also not forget that skulk bite range and width have been constantly nerfed over the last couple of builds, just to put leap/cele skulks more in line.
What all this ignores: In nearly 3 weeks there will be at least 50.000 new players, most of them with a tendency to stack Marines and many of them with barely any FPS meele combat experience.
What do you think is gonna happen when "easy new player mode Marine" meets "Skulk, get better you simply suck mode"? It won't be pretty and it won't be fun.
Comp players can talk about skill ceilings and "getting better" all they want, it won't change the fact that the basic gameplay of the Kharaa team will leave a horrible impression on new players, an impression that will most likely make them stack Marines even more.
I haven't played the new build yet, maybe walljumping is the awesome-sauce now (still sucks compared to original strafejumping as walljumping depends way too much on map geometry to actually work), maybe the fade will still be fun even without vertical shadowstepping (sound totally unfun, but hey let's give it a try). But right now a few of these changes feel like the exact opposite of what the game actually needs.
<!--quoteo(post=1990114:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:02 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Oct 12 2012, 06:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990114"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually not entirely true. This change lowers the skill floor but the skill ceiling remains the same (I.E. If you were good at aiming bites in the last build then you'll still be pretty good, but if you were bad at aiming you are now going to struggle more)
It would only raise the skill ceiling if at the same time as making aiming harder they also made the bite more powerful, so that having perfect aim this build would be superior than having perfect aim in the previous build, as well as being more difficult.
It's not more powerful, it's just harder to use which is a straight nerf.
I agree that a change was needed though (I haven't played the current build yet to test it) in the last build it was too easy to aim the bites. This change is good in theory because it rewards players for good aiming.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This puts the whole problem in the right perspective, many of the "skulk nerfs" have been handled that way. Problem with this is that regular adaptive players will just adapt to the change as they are already used to the frantic and intense skulk meele combat. So overall potential of a good skulk is in no way diminished, the only permanent result is that an style of gameplay that's new (and as such difficult) will be way harder for new players to get into. And that's simply not a good direction to go with the most basic Kharaa unit that people spent most of their time with. In the end this only adds an needlessly steep learning curve to an game that's already stuffed up with steep learning curve mechanics.
I could leap + 1 shot-kill-bite non-armored marines with ease (what was that upgrade called again?).
I was a good marine and a good alien because I played way too much. 10 years ago, I didn't have a job, a wife and kids. Okay, I still don't have kids....
I've played the NS2 beta a lot lately. My computer is awful. It's old. I get 30-40 fps when it doesn't count, and 5-15 when it counts. Lately, the fps has been getting better though. I can get a steady 15-25 in fights. It's not great, but playable most of the time.
The game is still in beta, and even when it's out, it'll be adjusted and updated for years. So I am not worried it will eventually be one of the greater games out there.
Nevertheless, I am still worried that the initial experience of new players will be very harsh.
As it stands, the game is freaking hardcore for new players who haven't played NS1, and I'm not even talking about skill. The sheer amount of things to learn and master can be discouraging. Learn the marine side, techs, weapons, mechanics. Learn the alien side, upgrades and abilities. Learn the maps. Learn commander mode.
All of that is good and fun, altough it lacks some serious in-game tutorials and tools to make sure its a smooth learning curve.
But add to that the fact that most new alien players will have a life expectancy of 4 seconds, and it can get downright frustrating and overwhelming.
As it stands, I have played a lot, and tonight (in part because of my poor fps) I couldn't hit the broadest side of a barn.
Obviously I am not a super skilled player, but I am far from being less than average. As it stands, I firmly believe that new customers will have an incredibly hard time adjusting to the level of skill required for the alien team.
I've also seen a tendency for marine teams to have insane Kill/death ratios compared to alien teams, even when the match is even. I frequently see the majority of a marine team with 4+ "kills per death" scores.
Dying 4 times to get 1 kill is not satisfying. While every game is different, and I enjoy both sides, the average marine vs skulk encounter is too hard for me. I get extatic if I simply break even in my KD.
This way, each time you update the game, NS2 will show up under NEWS.
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/kGV2c.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Good, keep it up and keep playing. That's the satisfying part.
few people getting lua errors on flame thrower:
Script Error #1: lua/Weapons/Marine/Flamethrower.lua:602: attempt to index local 'player' (a nil value)
...
Posting my thoughts like Samus.
Some of it is just like samus wrote it since i have the same feelins about it as he do.
Pros:
- Performance boost. | Feels quicker more responsive and + FPS.
- Server browser. | Better but not even close to the menu mod. (Why you guys have it look like that is beyond me)
- Skulk bite. | Felt more responsive, more precise. (Ppl just holding attack seams to be at a disadvantage, good job)
- MaxFPS command. | Great, now please increase the scope of the command to >100
Cons:
- MaxFPS command. | Didn't allow me to increase above 100 fps ?
- Skulk bite. | Haven't experienced this myself but looks bad, maybe it's different for structures ?
- ARC trains. | Was chocked when i saw the huge changes to arcs.
- Hive build time. | Was not needed. What was needed was to do something so aliens don't HAVE to have t2 tech to fight t1 tech marines.
Please, when making changes, try small to medium changes first. Going overboard (like on ARCs) and changing everything at once is very bad for the game.
NOTE: I also have not seen all the changes.
Last build i was hitting 5 bites and only 1 was registering out of them. if that got nerfed again, well, i'll stick with the marines. Maybe thats the bad performance or bad hit reg(?).... Well, sometimes i get insta-killed with 1 bite as marine.... the game only shows that i was hit once but registers 3 or more (and i do believe the opponent did bite all those times on me) but it sux, i cant predict anything... :\
Did i just heard "Aliens movie" motion tracker ?
Could be an issue if so.
Arcs-
Arcs needed a buff. Ever since the exo patch (217), they were only used if the game was already won and the comm just had a surplus of res. Exos couldn't be nerfed, because they're already easy enough to take out and they're a 50-75 res unit. By making Arcs faster and easier to get, they become closer to the beginning of the tech line and thus are more viable when breaking entrenched alien positions. Just tonight we had a ton of crags around a corner and the marine comm used a group of arcs to blast them to smithereens. This was a good decision.
The problem is that the game is already balanced in the marines' favor making this change look bad. I think that arcs needed a buff (not a damage buff), but something else on the marine side needed a nerf. Maybe a direct one (such as a FEW more bullets to kill a skulk) and an indirect one (longer and more costly to get W3 and A3?). Don't take these ideas to thought, as they are off the top of my head. But you get the point.
Skulk Bite-
As of now, I'm not having HUGE issues with it. Sure others might be and I've had my share of screw-ups too. But it doesn't feel THAT big to me. I don't know, maybe I just didn't play long enough or maybe I just had good luck. I do think that it should have stayed the way it was in 221 though.
Regardless of effect, Aliens needed a BUFF, not a nerf. Recently they have been losing a little too much. I think it started with the exo patch. Personally, I think the exos are fine themselves. But they pushed the rest of everything else over the edge.
Alien Vs Marine Tech Tree-
I actually think they work pretty well. Here I'm going to focus on some of the things that people have been most complaining about.
A lot of betas seem to think that the fact Marines get phases and beacons is unfair. To understand why I view this IS fair, think back to how aliens are supposed to be played.
Aliens, even the fade relies on guerrilla tactics. Nothing, not even they Onos (under sustained fire) can take on a team of marines for an extended period of time. Marines, on the other hand fight from a distance and must keep the aliens in their line of fire for as long as they can. Traveling in groups increases the chance that spraying the assault rifle will score a kill, and will also severely cut down the distance an alien will be able to remain in your sight. Skulks and fades might even liken themselves to a boggart (Harry Potter reference anyone?) and will now know who to attack. If an alien hits three marines with a bite each, none will be killed and they will all continue pushing. The point is, marines are strongest in an organized siege, and aliens are strongest with hit-run fighting, maybe even hitting/running in groups (skulk rush).
For this reason, Marines are given tools to combat how fast aliens can move on the map. One being the phase. Without it, Marines would spend far too much time going from place to place. It is their saving grace. But if it is destroyed, either a forward operating base is cut off, or a push is put on hold. Their reliance on them is much like their reliance on a power node.
The beacon is also one of these tools. If a base is in grave danger of being destroyed, a marine commander may choose to beacon his entire team to a specific point. This can be a game-saver. The power node rush can end a game in an instant, and is the alien teams greatest weapon. This is countered by the beacon, preventing many early to mid-game finishes.
But a beacon can leave other locations on the map undefended for a short while. The alien team can choose to abandon their initial push and rush everything else. Another drawback to the beacon is the fact that exos cannot be teleported, leaving them defenseless It is a double-edged sword: teleporting your team to areas of distress can save you as much as it can cripple you.
The movement system between the two teams is different, but runs parallel. Marines funnel themselves out of a point to their destination, cutting the distance between their target. Aliens use raw speed to get from place to place. Contrary to what people have stated, they DO have upgrades for their movement, in the form of things like celerity, adrenaline, and leap. They even get some of these for free, which mirrors the W3/A3 thing everyone is so fussy about.
Don't get me wrong: Aliens need a buff. The game shouldn't be released like this. Their damage, health... anything. Fortunately, we still have time for one or two more patches. People will scorn me for saying this, but they is still time. And with the level of complaining being done, I'm pretty sure UWE has noticed. Really, you can't go one comment page without seeing how many are not liking how aliens play now.
And of course the performance improvements are good. I'm actually confident that buyers won't be raging all over the forums that they can't play the game. But one thing still needs to be addressed. The freezing. God, it burns! Is this the server issue you've tweeted about fixing? If so, then thanks, and sorry for looking like I'm complaining about a BETA. Although, I would still like to point out that there is this weird flickering issue with the game. I'm not sure if this is confined to aliens (as I have been playing them a lot at the moment) but I think it might be the night-vision blinking. Don't take my word as god's though. It could be a universal screen bug.
Anyway, whatever happens... hats off to you guys at UWE. You're amazing. I'm glad I pre-ordered and got to test the Beta. It's been an honor.
Increasing hive build time won't do anything, quick hives are a symptom of an underlying cause (i.e 1 hive alien play being non viable)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ARC needed to be more viable, but I am surprised no changes were made to prevent trains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AFAIK the splash damage to each-other is still in? Granted I think that's a pretty terrible solution to stop them from being spammed (hidden modifier!), UWE seems to be convinced that this will suffice. Anyway, not going to bother with ARCs until sentries are fixed.