Did some aliens, did some marines, as of this patch...
Aliens feel weak and ######, marines feel amazing, raping slow ass skulks and lerks with 100 fps all day, well what if you can't aim the shotgun? Well friend we have your pal the grenade launcher for all your 1 shotting needs. Just fire it into the general direction of the bad guys and you're guaranteed to instakill someone at least every 3 shots.
if you aren't going to shrink the models (which is what really should happen, you should buff the ###### out of skulks and lerks at least, takes like 19 bites to kill 1 marine, who can hop, during said hop if you bite him he flies away like a ###### butterfly, and oh yeah, he can 1 shot you whenever he wants w/the shotgun)
- marines are great, they only seem OP because aliens are garbage
- it should be really obvious that skulks p much suck and if you die with a good unit you're a skulk for another 4 hours waiting to get an upgrade, if you're forced to be a unit for so long at least make it fun
- lots of alien upgrades don't really seem like they do anything useful, like i dont even want to take most of them, yet they're limited as if they're very powerful, lol, why (frenzy, which is gone, actually seemed like it did something nice)
- even when winning it feels like losing because aliens combat is so dull and weak
also, the game is not ready for release performance wise, still dips down to 45 fps sometimes (i5 4.3ghz, radeon 6900, 8 gigs ram) and more importantly, lots of people appear to warp around, and i get some weird rubberband/freezing type ######. And whatever the interp thing is set to make it more instant, because it's pretty bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1990180:date=Oct 12 2012, 03:06 AM:name=unkind)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (unkind @ Oct 12 2012, 03:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Did some aliens, did some marines, as of this patch...
Aliens feel weak and ######, marines feel amazing, raping slow ass skulks and lerks with 100 fps all day, well what if you can't aim the shotgun? Well friend we have your pal the grenade launcher for all your 1 shotting needs. Just fire it into the general direction of the bad guys and you're guaranteed to instakill someone at least every 3 shots.
if you aren't going to shrink the models (which is what really should happen, you should buff the ###### out of skulks and lerks at least, takes like 19 bites to kill 1 marine, who can hop, during said hop if you bite him he flies away like a ###### butterfly, and oh yeah, he can 1 shot you whenever he wants w/the shotgun)
- marines are great, they only seem OP because aliens are garbage
- it should be really obvious that skulks p much suck and if you die with a good unit you're a skulk for another 4 hours waiting to get an upgrade, if you're forced to be a unit for so long at least make it fun
- lots of alien upgrades don't really seem like they do anything useful, like i dont even want to take most of them, yet they're limited as if they're very powerful, lol, why (frenzy, which is gone, actually seemed like it did something nice)
- even when winning it feels like losing because aliens combat is so dull and weak
also, the game is not ready for release performance wise, still dips down to 45 fps sometimes (i5 4.3ghz, radeon 6900, 8 gigs ram) and more importantly, lots of people appear to warp around, and i get some weird rubberband/freezing type ######. And whatever the interp thing is set to make it more instant, because it's pretty bad.
-2c<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> the marine movement buff is a great example of "marines are great, they only seem OP because aliens are garbage". it feels freed up so you can do doublejumps and certain small movement tricks are more fluid, and of course everyone complains about marines being overpowered. aliens are really awful in comparison.
I agree with every point, and especially on the game not being ready performance wise. balance issues can usually be fixed before people lose interest in a game, but if the game runs like ass on a large majority of players' computers, then they're more likely to drop it immediately IMO. the argument has been that it's related to the servers' ticrate, but it's still not fun to play. now with the recent update the alien flashlight seems to flicker the worse your performance is, so if you have 3+ exosuits in a room then you might as well not even use the flashlight or even play the game because everyone just warps around the map, including the flailing hitbox structures and not to mention the hundreds of places and ways you can get stuck on a surface and /unstuck not being a standard option or bandaid. these are bugs that will ruin the playing experience of a newbie more than a balance change like more diverse tech paths.
GISPBattle GorgeDenmarkJoin Date: 2004-03-20Member: 27460Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester, Forum staff
w00p, crashbugs fixed :) Took some time to find the couse, but the guys nailed it! :) And since i do recieve the question offen. Yes you can be a usefull teamplayer when playing on a lowend machine. I finished that game top3 on the scorebourd even thoe i averaged 10fps in that game. (Damn US based server) - Focusing on doing the objectives and being pointman/bait in fights. + being wise about your pres management, helping secure areas whit mines or spending 10 pres on 2 welders for your teammates to pick up, so they can get better guns and gear faster all add up.
tldr: \o/ yay crashfixes, and you can be a valuable contribution to your team on low end rigs.
I love the lighting generated by the flamethrower. Will we ever see lighting generated by LMGS and Exo miniguns obviously smaller? It makes the view-model weapon appear much more alive and connected with the environment!
Also, when will we see the return of No Shadows Fading? Love my shadows!
I'd like to commend hacker_13 (post #55) for such mature, sensible comments, given that it was only his second post ! (almost unheard of on internet forums !)
As far as the balance changes go, rest assured that they only stay in after extensive testing - some of us spend every night helping to test them.
Twigs - get over yourself, it's a game - don't like it, don't play it !
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2012
Looks like a good patch, look forward to playing it tonight.
I think increasing hive build time is necessary, but I also agree with the posters saying that you haven't addressed the fundamental problem that t1 aliens can't compete in the midgame. The are many reasons for this, but some obvious ones: Mass marine shotguns, mass marine mines, slow alien movement speed compared to marines with phase gates, slow alien pres accumulation meaning you won't get fades until 9+ minutes into the game, t2 blink.
Giving aliens other viable tactics than instant second hive drop requires two things: (1) There must be a risk associated with instant dropping a hive (high reward should also be high risk), typically that marines have a good chance at taking the second hive down before evolves if it is instadropped, and (2) There must be viable alternatives to dropping the second hive instantly, all with their own risk/reward values.
<!--quoteo(post=1990071:date=Oct 12 2012, 04:55 AM:name=Twigs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twigs @ Oct 12 2012, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apart from some gripes with the patch my main issue and concern is why the flying ###### you expect to get a serious competitive scene when you patch the game the night before the tournament WITH balance changes, breaking the game some more ( Marine comm seeing cysts being placed and Alien comm seeing exactly where the marine with the flamethrower is. ), giving the teams no ###### chance in hell to even naturally ease into the patch and get used to it all.
Just ###### it. I'm still gonna play in the tournament but ###### like this is what will kill a competitive scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is not a problem at all, relax. This looks like a good patch and I'm glad they released it before the tournament so we can play it instead of 221.
<!--quoteo(post=1990090:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:30 AM:name=SquishyOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SquishyOne @ Oct 12 2012, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That said marines now have MASSIVE mobility in combat depending on their surroundings. My comment had nothing to do with sprint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not really. Unlike NS1, you don't gain any speed from chaining jumps, and even with speed gain the advantage of doing it was very limited.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think increasing hive build time is necessary, but I also agree with the posters saying that you haven't addressed the fundamental problem that t1 aliens can't compete in the midgame. The are many reasons for this, but some obvious ones: Mass marine shotguns, mass marine mines, slow alien movement speed compared to marines with phase gates, slow alien pres accumulation meaning you won't get fades until 9+ minutes into the game, t2 blink.
Giving aliens other viable tactics than instant second hive drop requires two things: (1) There must be a risk associated with instant dropping a hive (high reward should also be high risk), typically that marines have a good chance at taking the second hive down before evolves if it is instadropped, and (2) There must be viable alternatives to dropping the second hive instantly, all with their own risk/reward values.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, I really hope this gets addressed before release somehow, alien strategic play is incredibly linear currently.
<!--quoteo(post=1990225:date=Oct 12 2012, 02:37 PM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Oct 12 2012, 02:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Marine structures can be dropped on Infestation, but cannot be constructed until infestation is cleared."
This change will annoy alot of Comms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually is it more frustrating to spam something like rt over dying infestion since you cant often see it, and you need to be elsewhere.
This change can get a bit exploitative though, but I dont think its going to be big problem just yet.
<!--quoteo(post=1990081:date=Oct 12 2012, 06:06 AM:name=Twigs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twigs @ Oct 12 2012, 06:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990081"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Even though this is beta having a tournament IS a big deal no matter what. If that's the reasoning behind it why would you even have a tournament in a game that's in beta? Just forcing the teams to take it up the ass by patching the night before the tournament isn't exactly the smoothest move. They could've waited untill monday to patch and it wouldn't have interfered with this weekends tournament and given folks a week of practice untill the next one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So let me get this straight. Since prepping the game and taking full advantage of the open beta nature of this game is obviously the priority, you would rather have no tournament at all, than one in which you have to play with some unknown variables? Really?
I had to exercise all my self control in order to not get this entire post snipped.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1990228:date=Oct 12 2012, 01:40 PM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Oct 12 2012, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually is it more frustrating to spam something like rt over dying infestion since you cant often see it, and you need to be elsewhere.
This change can get a bit exploitative though, but I dont think its going to be big problem just yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't imagine how annoying it is to try to build buildings dropped on the edge of the infestation to see if you can build them or not. And trying this every second when the infestation is receding. We'll also see how many sneaky PGs will be dropped on the edge of the of the infestation only to be found unbuildable without killing the cyst which of course reveals the whole operation.
<!--quoteo(post=1990236:date=Oct 12 2012, 07:58 AM:name=Zeikko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeikko @ Oct 12 2012, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't imagine how annoying it is to try to build buildings dropped on the edge of the infestation to see if you can build them or not. And trying this every second when the infestation is receding. We'll also see how many sneaky PGs will be dropped on the edge of the of the infestation only to be found unbuildable without killing the cyst which of course reveals the whole operation.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah this is definitely going to be a bad thing. You can also drop a CC on a cysted TP and block the hive - the khaamander cant even see the chair so it just looks like the hive can't be put there, bad for new players.
<!--quoteo(post=1990141:date=Oct 12 2012, 03:07 AM:name=Uh-Oh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uh-Oh @ Oct 12 2012, 03:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990141"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I played the hell out of NS1. Best. Game. Ever. I could leap + 1 shot-kill-bite non-armored marines with ease (what was that upgrade called again?).
I was a good marine and a good alien because I played way too much. 10 years ago, I didn't have a job, a wife and kids. Okay, I still don't have kids....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here here -- it is a great mod. That was my favorite technique as a skulk, leaping just above the marine then using focus to bite as I pass over him. Some of those marines were good enough to put you down with a shotgun in mid air every time, though.
Not quite 10 years for me (more like 8-9), but yeah as soon as the kid came, my gaming dropped to almost nothing. If one parent isn't taking care of the kid, the other one has to, leaving little time for anything personal. If you have one (or more), you'll soon find the only time you can play games is Saturday and Sunday mornings from 6am to 8am (or when everyone else is asleep). Or at work if you are lucky enough.
I used to be much better too, though. I remember weekends in college where I'd wake up 6am or 8am in the morning after drinking all Friday night (I don't sleep long after drinking heavy) and playing Natural Selection pretty much all day straight until evening with breaks for only food and bathroom in between. Mostly ramen and post drinking bathroom issues. Wow...those were the days :/
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About the marine knockback on bite...I really hope Biscum meant that the marine jumping to get distance was the intentional thing and not the actual effect for gameplay's sake. It makes sense for an Onos gore perhaps...throwing the marine a bit when he is not planted on the ground, but a skulk bite doing so just seems like an overlook. I don't think we need the marines flying around any more than they already do.
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Does no one else think the z-buffer (z-fighting) fix is as awesome as I think? Thanks to whoever fixed that, UWE.
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Also...the marine structure building...no one else think it's a neat idea for the texture materialization like the marine spawning effect? Many RTS games have a procedural generated model when being built. It's a nice visual and great indicator.
<!--quoteo(post=1990251:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:27 AM:name=Shaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shaker @ Oct 12 2012, 05:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah this is definitely going to be a bad thing. You can also drop a CC on a cysted TP and block the hive - the khaamander cant even see the chair so it just looks like the hive can't be put there, bad for new players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, a littel skulk can remove a ghost building just by touching it. But an 8.000 kilogramm Hive cant. This gamedesign is sometimes ... >_<
<!--quoteo(post=1990260:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:00 AM:name=Mr.Greedy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mr.Greedy @ Oct 12 2012, 05:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990260"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, a littel skulk can remove a ghost building just by touching it. But an 8.000 kilogramm Hive cant. This gamedesign is sometimes ... >_<<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Definitely agree that dropping hives should destroy ghost CC's. Would be a bit of a pain otherwise...
Great patch, but I feel the pain of the clans for all the changes before the tournament. UWE should give them time to train with a new patch and not release it one day before.
<!--quoteo(post=1990268:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:12 AM:name=Jibrail)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jibrail @ Oct 12 2012, 05:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990268"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Great patch, but I feel the pain of the clans for all the changes before the tournament. UWE should give them time to train with a new patch and not release it one day before.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So much competitive > pub-and-everyone-else-who-wants-to-play-the-game mindset floating around. I think most of us are just happy to have something new to play for the weekend and to provide feedback.
They have 3 weeks til launch, theres a tourney every weekend, the tourneys arent even for money as far as I know. They need all the test data they can get on each patch. Chill out.
Regarding the patch, I am a little surprised to see all the alien nerfs and marine buffs. I can see where the devs are coming with all the changes on a 1 by 1 basis and from that perspective they are great but unfortunately the hard reality is I think the aliens need more to be able to compete with the marines pre-leap. I havn't tried the wall jumping out yet so I guess we will see if that makes it all work together.
That said I had a few pub games the other day where the aliens stomped the marines every game, but there werent really any all-star 20-5 marines on the team.
I love that when the Onos is Umbra'd that it drags a trail of it with itself. You should so apply this to Onos along with other attributes, such as enzyme and perhaps even spore cloud. Would help supporting classes behind it and perhaps allow for some interesting attacks?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Rewrote server browser (much faster now)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice, but the performance slider is silly. There are only two relevant performance cases: 1) the server can handle NS2 or 2) the server can't handle NS2. I doubt that anybody is going to choose option 2.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine structures can be dropped on Infestation, but cannot be constructed until infestation is cleared.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is not obvious in the game. For example, I tried to build a PG that looked like it was just off the infestation, but nothing happened. Hadn't I read the changelog I wouldn't have known why. There is no feedback.
<!--quoteo(post=1990286:date=Oct 12 2012, 02:53 PM:name=Raza.)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raza. @ Oct 12 2012, 02:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990286"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Nice, but the performance slider is silly. There are only two relevant performance cases: 1) the server can handle NS2 or 2) the server can't handle NS2. I doubt that anybody is going to choose option 2.
That is not obvious in the game. For example, I tried to build a PG that looked like it was just off the infestation, but nothing happened. Hadn't I read the changelog I wouldn't have known why. There is no feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Needs a 'red' hologram instead of blue when on infestation still. Problem solved.
Ive been reading about NS2 for awhile but didnt make the jump in time to get beta access, that being said ive already preordered NS2. Reading all the change-logs and watching the videos makes me very excited for this game to be released. I like seeing what changes and fixes happen then popping into the forum to see the community response.
- Skulk bite (see next post for pics) - ARC trains are back (very, VERY bad) - Increased hive build time was not needed. What was needed was to do something so aliens don't HAVE to have t2 tech to fight t1 tech marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> after i saw the change about arcs, it was clear there will be a train again...can't the devs not think about that? it´s like ,,oh arcs not used, decrease the price, quick!!´´ marines are really strong why they make them stronger and cheaper with everypatch...but we will see what people say if the final version is arrived, a lot of public player will write this. except the marine player, they cry if they see a onos killing them and spam the forums with ,,ONOS ARE TO STRONG, KILL IT! REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME!´´
<!--quoteo(post=1990311:date=Oct 12 2012, 09:39 AM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Oct 12 2012, 09:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->after i saw the change about arcs, it was clear there will be a train again...can't the devs not think about that? it´s like ,,oh arcs not used, decrease the price, quick!!´´ marines are really strong why they make them stronger and cheaper with everypatch...but we will see what people say if the final version is arrived, a lot of public player will write this. except the marine player, they cry if they see a onos killing them and spam the forums with ,,ONOS ARE TO STRONG, KILL IT! REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME!´´<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> eh? the only complaints about onos ive read is that the devour was too strong and was completely broken when a lagger used it
<!--quoteo(post=1990311:date=Oct 12 2012, 04:39 PM:name=RTV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RTV @ Oct 12 2012, 04:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->after i saw the change about arcs, it was clear there will be a train again...can't the devs not think about that? it´s like ,,oh arcs not used, decrease the price, quick!!´´ marines are really strong why they make them stronger and cheaper with everypatch...but we will see what people say if the final version is arrived, a lot of public player will write this. except the marine player, they cry if they see a onos killing them and spam the forums with ,,ONOS ARE TO STRONG, KILL IT! REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME!´´<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There needs to be ARC trains. How is that not obvious? How many ARC trains, or even single ARCs have you seen in the last few patches?
If you take something that is used almost all the time, and improve it, that is a buff. If you take something that is never used, and improve it, that's including a new game element.
Comments
Aliens feel weak and ######, marines feel amazing, raping slow ass skulks and lerks with 100 fps all day, well what if you can't aim the shotgun? Well friend we have your pal the grenade launcher for all your 1 shotting needs. Just fire it into the general direction of the bad guys and you're guaranteed to instakill someone at least every 3 shots.
if you aren't going to shrink the models (which is what really should happen, you should buff the ###### out of skulks and lerks at least, takes like 19 bites to kill 1 marine, who can hop, during said hop if you bite him he flies away like a ###### butterfly, and oh yeah, he can 1 shot you whenever he wants w/the shotgun)
- marines are great, they only seem OP because aliens are garbage
- it should be really obvious that skulks p much suck and if you die with a good unit you're a skulk for another 4 hours waiting to get an upgrade, if you're forced to be a unit for so long at least make it fun
- lots of alien upgrades don't really seem like they do anything useful, like i dont even want to take most of them, yet they're limited as if they're very powerful, lol, why (frenzy, which is gone, actually seemed like it did something nice)
- even when winning it feels like losing because aliens combat is so dull and weak
also, the game is not ready for release performance wise, still dips down to 45 fps sometimes (i5 4.3ghz, radeon 6900, 8 gigs ram) and more importantly, lots of people appear to warp around, and i get some weird rubberband/freezing type ######. And whatever the interp thing is set to make it more instant, because it's pretty bad.
-2c
Aliens feel weak and ######, marines feel amazing, raping slow ass skulks and lerks with 100 fps all day, well what if you can't aim the shotgun? Well friend we have your pal the grenade launcher for all your 1 shotting needs. Just fire it into the general direction of the bad guys and you're guaranteed to instakill someone at least every 3 shots.
if you aren't going to shrink the models (which is what really should happen, you should buff the ###### out of skulks and lerks at least, takes like 19 bites to kill 1 marine, who can hop, during said hop if you bite him he flies away like a ###### butterfly, and oh yeah, he can 1 shot you whenever he wants w/the shotgun)
- marines are great, they only seem OP because aliens are garbage
- it should be really obvious that skulks p much suck and if you die with a good unit you're a skulk for another 4 hours waiting to get an upgrade, if you're forced to be a unit for so long at least make it fun
- lots of alien upgrades don't really seem like they do anything useful, like i dont even want to take most of them, yet they're limited as if they're very powerful, lol, why (frenzy, which is gone, actually seemed like it did something nice)
- even when winning it feels like losing because aliens combat is so dull and weak
also, the game is not ready for release performance wise, still dips down to 45 fps sometimes (i5 4.3ghz, radeon 6900, 8 gigs ram) and more importantly, lots of people appear to warp around, and i get some weird rubberband/freezing type ######. And whatever the interp thing is set to make it more instant, because it's pretty bad.
-2c<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the marine movement buff is a great example of "marines are great, they only seem OP because aliens are garbage". it feels freed up so you can do doublejumps and certain small movement tricks are more fluid, and of course everyone complains about marines being overpowered. aliens are really awful in comparison.
I agree with every point, and especially on the game not being ready performance wise. balance issues can usually be fixed before people lose interest in a game, but if the game runs like ass on a large majority of players' computers, then they're more likely to drop it immediately IMO. the argument has been that it's related to the servers' ticrate, but it's still not fun to play. now with the recent update the alien flashlight seems to flicker the worse your performance is, so if you have 3+ exosuits in a room then you might as well not even use the flashlight or even play the game because everyone just warps around the map, including the flailing hitbox structures and not to mention the hundreds of places and ways you can get stuck on a surface and /unstuck not being a standard option or bandaid. these are bugs that will ruin the playing experience of a newbie more than a balance change like more diverse tech paths.
And since i do recieve the question offen. Yes you can be a usefull teamplayer when playing on a lowend machine. I finished that game top3 on the scorebourd even thoe i averaged 10fps in that game. (Damn US based server) - Focusing on doing the objectives and being pointman/bait in fights.
+ being wise about your pres management, helping secure areas whit mines or spending 10 pres on 2 welders for your teammates to pick up, so they can get better guns and gear faster all add up.
tldr: \o/ yay crashfixes, and you can be a valuable contribution to your team on low end rigs.
What on Earth is "Toothy's Delight"?? From the changelog:
<b>Toothy's delight, smooth player movement.</b>
O_o
Also, when will we see the return of No Shadows Fading? Love my shadows!
As far as the balance changes go, rest assured that they only stay in after extensive testing - some of us spend every night helping to test them.
Twigs - get over yourself, it's a game - don't like it, don't play it !
I think increasing hive build time is necessary, but I also agree with the posters saying that you haven't addressed the fundamental problem that t1 aliens can't compete in the midgame. The are many reasons for this, but some obvious ones: Mass marine shotguns, mass marine mines, slow alien movement speed compared to marines with phase gates, slow alien pres accumulation meaning you won't get fades until 9+ minutes into the game, t2 blink.
Giving aliens other viable tactics than instant second hive drop requires two things: (1) There must be a risk associated with instant dropping a hive (high reward should also be high risk), typically that marines have a good chance at taking the second hive down before evolves if it is instadropped, and (2) There must be viable alternatives to dropping the second hive instantly, all with their own risk/reward values.
<!--quoteo(post=1990071:date=Oct 12 2012, 04:55 AM:name=Twigs)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Twigs @ Oct 12 2012, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990071"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Apart from some gripes with the patch my main issue and concern is why the flying ###### you expect to get a serious competitive scene when you patch the game the night before the tournament WITH balance changes, breaking the game some more ( Marine comm seeing cysts being placed and Alien comm seeing exactly where the marine with the flamethrower is. ), giving the teams no ###### chance in hell to even naturally ease into the patch and get used to it all.
Just ###### it. I'm still gonna play in the tournament but ###### like this is what will kill a competitive scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is not a problem at all, relax. This looks like a good patch and I'm glad they released it before the tournament so we can play it instead of 221.
<!--quoteo(post=1990090:date=Oct 12 2012, 05:30 AM:name=SquishyOne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SquishyOne @ Oct 12 2012, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1990090"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That said marines now have MASSIVE mobility in combat depending on their surroundings. My comment had nothing to do with sprint.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. Unlike NS1, you don't gain any speed from chaining jumps, and even with speed gain the advantage of doing it was very limited.
Giving aliens other viable tactics than instant second hive drop requires two things: (1) There must be a risk associated with instant dropping a hive (high reward should also be high risk), typically that marines have a good chance at taking the second hive down before evolves if it is instadropped, and (2) There must be viable alternatives to dropping the second hive instantly, all with their own risk/reward values.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This, I really hope this gets addressed before release somehow, alien strategic play is incredibly linear currently.
This change will annoy alot of Comms.
This change will annoy alot of Comms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually is it more frustrating to spam something like rt over dying infestion since you cant often see it, and you need to be elsewhere.
This change can get a bit exploitative though, but I dont think its going to be big problem just yet.
They could've waited untill monday to patch and it wouldn't have interfered with this weekends tournament and given folks a week of practice untill the next one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So let me get this straight. Since prepping the game and taking full advantage of the open beta nature of this game is obviously the priority, you would rather have no tournament at all, than one in which you have to play with some unknown variables? Really?
I had to exercise all my self control in order to not get this entire post snipped.
This change can get a bit exploitative though, but I dont think its going to be big problem just yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't imagine how annoying it is to try to build buildings dropped on the edge of the infestation to see if you can build them or not. And trying this every second when the infestation is receding. We'll also see how many sneaky PGs will be dropped on the edge of the of the infestation only to be found unbuildable without killing the cyst which of course reveals the whole operation.
Yeah this is definitely going to be a bad thing. You can also drop a CC on a cysted TP and block the hive - the khaamander cant even see the chair so it just looks like the hive can't be put there, bad for new players.
I could leap + 1 shot-kill-bite non-armored marines with ease (what was that upgrade called again?).
I was a good marine and a good alien because I played way too much. 10 years ago, I didn't have a job, a wife and kids. Okay, I still don't have kids....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here here -- it is a great mod. That was my favorite technique as a skulk, leaping just above the marine then using focus to bite as I pass over him. Some of those marines were good enough to put you down with a shotgun in mid air every time, though.
Not quite 10 years for me (more like 8-9), but yeah as soon as the kid came, my gaming dropped to almost nothing. If one parent isn't taking care of the kid, the other one has to, leaving little time for anything personal. If you have one (or more), you'll soon find the only time you can play games is Saturday and Sunday mornings from 6am to 8am (or when everyone else is asleep). Or at work if you are lucky enough.
I used to be much better too, though. I remember weekends in college where I'd wake up 6am or 8am in the morning after drinking all Friday night (I don't sleep long after drinking heavy) and playing Natural Selection pretty much all day straight until evening with breaks for only food and bathroom in between. Mostly ramen and post drinking bathroom issues. Wow...those were the days :/
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About the marine knockback on bite...I really hope Biscum meant that the marine jumping to get distance was the intentional thing and not the actual effect for gameplay's sake. It makes sense for an Onos gore perhaps...throwing the marine a bit when he is not planted on the ground, but a skulk bite doing so just seems like an overlook. I don't think we need the marines flying around any more than they already do.
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Does no one else think the z-buffer (z-fighting) fix is as awesome as I think? Thanks to whoever fixed that, UWE.
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Also...the marine structure building...no one else think it's a neat idea for the texture materialization like the marine spawning effect? Many RTS games have a procedural generated model when being built. It's a nice visual and great indicator.
Well, a littel skulk can remove a ghost building just by touching it. But an 8.000 kilogramm Hive cant. This gamedesign is sometimes ... >_<
Definitely agree that dropping hives should destroy ghost CC's. Would be a bit of a pain otherwise...
So much competitive > pub-and-everyone-else-who-wants-to-play-the-game mindset floating around. I think most of us are just happy to have something new to play for the weekend and to provide feedback.
Regarding the patch, I am a little surprised to see all the alien nerfs and marine buffs. I can see where the devs are coming with all the changes on a 1 by 1 basis and from that perspective they are great but unfortunately the hard reality is I think the aliens need more to be able to compete with the marines pre-leap. I havn't tried the wall jumping out yet so I guess we will see if that makes it all work together.
That said I had a few pub games the other day where the aliens stomped the marines every game, but there werent really any all-star 20-5 marines on the team.
Nice, but the performance slider is silly.
There are only two relevant performance cases:
1) the server can handle NS2 or
2) the server can't handle NS2.
I doubt that anybody is going to choose option 2.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Marine structures can be dropped on Infestation, but cannot be constructed until infestation is cleared.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is not obvious in the game. For example, I tried to build a PG that looked like it was just off the infestation, but nothing happened.
Hadn't I read the changelog I wouldn't have known why. There is no feedback.
yo dawg..
There are only two relevant performance cases:
1) the server can handle NS2 or
2) the server can't handle NS2.
I doubt that anybody is going to choose option 2.
That is not obvious in the game. For example, I tried to build a PG that looked like it was just off the infestation, but nothing happened.
Hadn't I read the changelog I wouldn't have known why. There is no feedback.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Needs a 'red' hologram instead of blue when on infestation still. Problem solved.
- Skulk bite (see next post for pics)
- ARC trains are back (very, VERY bad)
- Increased hive build time was not needed. What was needed was to do something so aliens don't HAVE to have t2 tech to fight t1 tech marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
after i saw the change about arcs, it was clear there will be a train again...can't the devs not think about that?
it´s like ,,oh arcs not used, decrease the price, quick!!´´
marines are really strong why they make them stronger and cheaper with everypatch...but we will see what people say if the final version is arrived, a lot of public player will write this.
except the marine player, they cry if they see a onos killing them and spam the forums with ,,ONOS ARE TO STRONG, KILL IT! REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME!´´
it´s like ,,oh arcs not used, decrease the price, quick!!´´
marines are really strong why they make them stronger and cheaper with everypatch...but we will see what people say if the final version is arrived, a lot of public player will write this.
except the marine player, they cry if they see a onos killing them and spam the forums with ,,ONOS ARE TO STRONG, KILL IT! REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME!´´<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
eh? the only complaints about onos ive read is that the devour was too strong and was completely broken when a lagger used it
it´s like ,,oh arcs not used, decrease the price, quick!!´´
marines are really strong why they make them stronger and cheaper with everypatch...but we will see what people say if the final version is arrived, a lot of public player will write this.
except the marine player, they cry if they see a onos killing them and spam the forums with ,,ONOS ARE TO STRONG, KILL IT! REMOVE IT FROM THE GAME!´´<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There needs to be ARC trains. How is that not obvious? How many ARC trains, or even single ARCs have you seen in the last few patches?
If you take something that is used almost all the time, and improve it, that is a buff.
If you take something that is never used, and improve it, that's including a new game element.