The last thing I want is to play against a bunch of pink-model-using hooligans. I'd love if there were clear markers in the server list for Pure servers (no mods), Server-mod servers (server mod only), Full Mod server (mods which require a client component; I imagine Sanity fits this model), and Unregulated (any mods; enjoy your hive of scum and villany.) And "clear" doesn't mean the server name is a different color because even with a lot of hours invested into NS2 I couldn't tell you what the existing server name colors mean except Green (rookie friendly).
Whoever runs the competitive servers config is a grumpy obnoxious man of a illegitimate birth who doesn't like any sort of customization apart from crosshairs. So if you want to play on the most boring and least user friendly servers that don't even allow a custom decal on your rifle you know where to look.
<!--quoteo(post=2058525:date=Jan 9 2013, 05:19 PM:name=GORGEous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GORGEous @ Jan 9 2013, 05:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058525"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would have to be the other way around. You'd have to allow server operators (or UWE) to whitelist mods like the orange phase gates or cute gorge eyes. If you tried to blacklist a mod that turned skulks into 100% green #0000, then someone would just make a mod with a skulk that is green #0001.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->In principle I don't disagree. However, it would also be a lot more work to whitelist all these modes instead of blacklist. So we could try it and see if people would respect the will of server ops. If they don't, then we can look at other methods including seeing if a person can be banned from the workshop.
I was suggesting starting at least intrusive option, since a whitelist would markedly restrict the modding community. They'd have to be going around to server OPs trying to convince them to add it etc.
Hey, it's worth a shot, and it wouldn't be a hard change to make. Just allow server OPs to have a blacklist file that they can stick the MODID in, and it will ban that mod from the server. Should people circumvent this, then we can try stronger measures. At least it gives the server OPs more power in controlling their servers - outside of these bad mods - and that's always good.
This seems to me to be the perfect time for some server advertisement:
Come to HBZ Servers and enjoy mostly cheatmod-free playing since all pink skulk mods etc. are disabled due to advanced consistency checks. This may take longer while loading but it is definitly worth it to have same circumstances for every player!
I think that this would have to be an all or nothing approach. For example, you can change any parts of the HUD but nothing of the player models. Not just bits and pieces within each category.
it would be too time consuming for admins to whitelist each new mod that comes around. Having a server setting which allows different level of modding would be a good feature. For example, a level 0 is pure server, level 1 allows hud mods, level 2 allows level 1 mods plus model mods etc. However its a delicate balance for game performance as we already know that this game seems to struggle delivering high in-game performance.
I remember in CS 1.6 days, there were models which had giant spikes coming out of them which would protrude through walls. Now this is clearly a form of hacking and obviously not in the intention of fair gameplay.
It should be clearly evident if a player is allowed to use mods to enhance their ability or aesthetics. I for one wouldn't want to play on a server to be disadvantaged because another player has installed mods which paints skulks neon colours. The skulks advantage to blend in is one of its' main advantages and anything that changes that is changing the balance of the game.
In my opinion, mods detract from the CORE gameplay which is the majority of players. Modding should be considered the minority, but should also be acknowledged as an important aspect of the game for longevity and creativity.
<!--quoteo(post=2058589:date=Jan 9 2013, 04:23 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Jan 9 2013, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058589"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whoever runs the competitive servers config is a grumpy obnoxious man of a illegitimate birth who doesn't like any sort of customization apart from crosshairs. So if you want to play on the most boring and least user friendly servers that don't even allow a custom decal on your rifle you know where to look.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The issue isn't the mods that put a custom decal on your rifle, it's the ones that just delete the rifle model.
In my own personal opinion, modding of this type and degree shows a lack of dedication to the design choices made in the game.
For example, I assume the skulk is the color he is for a reason. I mean, he isn't pink, he is a color which blends in well with the surroundings, and its a class made for ambushing. Sounds planned. So in such a case, why is it possible to change the skulks skin at all? Its clearly a preconceived design choice, so why are players able to undo these choices at all? The jetpack has slow lift while moving forward, but I haven't found a legal mod that allows players to remove this. It may not sound like the same thing, but if its a design choice, then players should not simply be able to undo it, regardless of what it is.
I am generally against changes on of any type to the released game, and I don't like that they have been included to the degree that they have. New game modes created by players are fine, but if you allow players to change every little part of your officially released game, then how many aspects of your game are just there for the sake of being there, rather than being conscious design choices?
@OP. I would like to say that u are correct about certain mods. I for one tho usually download the weapon mods for example the compact LMG mod. I think mods like those are acceptable, well for me that is but many have different views about it. Other mods like changing appearances and changing the HUD to make it easier to see aliens/marines and or makes it easier to see in general makes the game boring and unfair.
+1 to the suggestion that there are three types of servers. Server side modded, those which allow client side stuff and those which are 100% vanilla which don't allow anything except hud. The latter being the majority of the official servers and the most populated one would hope.
Someone's desire to have a decal on their weapon should not out weigh the need to have a level playing field.
Cheats will Cheat, be it aimbots, model swaps, wall hacks... Nothing you can do except pitty their need to be top of the scoreboard, which only they care about... its kinda sad really.
That said, in NS2 rambo wont win a team the game, he may be annoying but if you know he's using skin mods gang up on him, Ive done this before with friends.
Turning off shadows/atmospherics/occlusion also gives an advantage in comparison to players who keep those settings on. Changing textures can give you some extra advantage, yes. So can it be called cheating? In some way, yes. But it's such a soft form of cheating, it doesn't really bother me. If anything, I actually feel sad for the people that have to resort to these kind of measures. Butchering up their game like this just to get some additional kills. It's like those people who turn up gamma/brightness to rediculous levels just to see better in the dark.
In any case, I don't think the negative outways the positive the modding community can bring on the table. Let people customise the look of their game if they want to, even if it might be in their advantage. It's not like they're wallhacking, speedhacking or aimbotting. They'll still have to play decent to win games.
<!--quoteo(post=2058804:date=Jan 10 2013, 12:43 PM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Jan 10 2013, 12:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058804"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In any case, I don't think the negative outways the positive the modding community can bring on the table. Let people customise the look of their game if they want to, even if it's in their advantage. It's not like they're wallhacking, speedhacking or aimbotting. They'll still have to play decent to win games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In a game where one team strongly relies on hiding from the other in certain situations this statement is just wrong.
I mean, why forbid Wallhack? its not like you cant kill that hacking person anyway...
<!--quoteo(post=2058805:date=Jan 10 2013, 07:49 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Jan 10 2013, 07:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058805"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In a game where one team strongly relies on hiding from the other in certain situations this statement is just wrong.
I mean, why forbid Wallhack? its not like you cant kill that hacking person anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't approve of changing skulk textures to a bright white. But I don't think it's a big enough problem worth limiting the customisation options of players.
<!--quoteo(post=2058797:date=Jan 10 2013, 09:26 PM:name=MuckyMcFly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuckyMcFly @ Jan 10 2013, 09:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058797"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cheats will Cheat, be it aimbots, model swaps, wall hacks... Nothing you can do except pitty their need to be top of the scoreboard, which only they care about... its kinda sad really.
That said, in NS2 rambo wont win a team the game, he may be annoying but if you know he's using skin mods gang up on him, Ive done this before with friends.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No he/she likely wont win the game for their team but he/she can make playing against him/her annoying.
I think the time will come that we do have to start cracking down on some of the easier exploits (such as models or textures)...we will always have aimbotters and the like...but they are always in lower numbers as you do risk VAC bans (where models currently are not checked by most servers).
I haven't noticed any longer load times on the 2 aus servers I know of that force consistency (Monash), I'm sure there's some random clan ones that do as well, otherwise every UWE/internode server is open slather.
Where the ###### are the nude mods for aliens as well, sort it out modders ffs, need a NS2nexus website to get this done properly bunch of amateurs over here.
Can anyone tell me why there's a pinkskulk.dds in the game files as well, specifically a bright pink skulk, was this a spectator feature once?
<!--quoteo(post=2058689:date=Jan 9 2013, 09:57 PM:name=BentRing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BentRing @ Jan 9 2013, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058689"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The issue isn't the mods that put a custom decal on your rifle, it's the ones that just delete the rifle model.
One is cosmetic, the other gives an advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
crosshairs give the same advantage too. Going to ban those as well?
Personally I think crosshairs are dead on the line I would draw.
While I do think a puple dot gives a certain advantage compared to the normal light blue thing I can accept people using them. That'S because I think you get the same kind of benefit from things like disabling rich infestation etc.
Anything above this however I personally regard as a form of cheat.
I think it would be easier if server admins had access to a config file in the dedicated server and they could list in it client mods that they do allow on the server. The admin could simply put in the workshop mod ID and that's all it would take. If a client is using any other mod not on the accept list then the server forces the client to deactivate it or possibly send a message to the client saying "XXX mod is not allowed on this server, please disable it before joining this server".
I know it's not a perfect method but it will help.
I prefer servers which allow me to do whatever I like with my game. It is just for me. And I prefer a prettier much more eyefriendly alien vision, models, UI etc. And to be honest, the vanilla game has so many aweful things. aliensight, scans, crosshair, minimap, large map.....
Not enough servers allow you to customize your alien sight. (I use "Gliss Vision" or "minimal Alien Vision", which are so much prettier)
Cheating has been part of the internet. Just because some people abuse it should not mean everyone has to suffer. I avoid HBZ servers due to that. I like my models alot more. First server I faved was the one who allowed me to use Gliss Vision.
Right. And that is why everyone should get what they want. The people that prefer the vanilla version should easily find servers that only allow vanilla mods. And people that like custom stuff, can play on servers that allow moding.
The best solution is really to get an equivalent of sv_pure 2 in the game and mark the server with a specific color that are configured with it.
<!--quoteo(post=2058804:date=Jan 10 2013, 08:43 AM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Jan 10 2013, 08:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058804"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Turning off shadows/atmospherics/occlusion also gives an advantage in comparison to players who keep those settings on. Changing textures can give you some extra advantage, yes. So can it be called cheating? In some way, yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->NO. If these settings are part of the game, then the developers have taken into account that the use (or lack thereof) won't affect the game in a substantial way.
It's like saying that turning on alien vision will alter gameplay. The issue is that it is part of the game. Use it or not, that's personal choice. When people make graphic changes to the game via methods from outside the game, then you can call it 'cheating'. However, saying that it's cheating to change the in game settings is just plain silly.
<!--quoteo(post=2058823:date=Jan 10 2013, 04:50 AM:name=gnoarch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gnoarch @ Jan 10 2013, 04:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2058823"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally I think crosshairs are dead on the line I would draw.
While I do think a puple dot gives a certain advantage compared to the normal light blue thing I can accept people using them. That'S because I think you get the same kind of benefit from things like disabling rich infestation etc.
Anything above this however I personally regard as a form of cheat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a mod that makes gorges shoot out hearts instead of green ###### because it's adorable. Does this make me a cheater? I have a mod that makes powernodes have a sick little dinosaur on them. Does that make me a cheater? I have a mod that makes gorges' eyes slightly bigger, called cute gorge eyes. Does that make me a cheater? I have a mod that makes my rifle pink with a hello kitty symbol on it. Does that make me a cheater?
There are a ###### ton more mods than there are neon green skins. Don't punish us all because a few people don't know how to turn up their contrast.
Comments
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109537600&searchtext=" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...amp;searchtext=</a>
I was suggesting starting at least intrusive option, since a whitelist would markedly restrict the modding community. They'd have to be going around to server OPs trying to convince them to add it etc.
Hey, it's worth a shot, and it wouldn't be a hard change to make. Just allow server OPs to have a blacklist file that they can stick the MODID in, and it will ban that mod from the server. Should people circumvent this, then we can try stronger measures. At least it gives the server OPs more power in controlling their servers - outside of these bad mods - and that's always good.
I can do it in about 30 seconds. Simply replace your physical skulk models in your ns2 folder with the green skulk one.
Come to HBZ Servers and enjoy mostly cheatmod-free playing since all pink skulk mods etc. are disabled due to advanced consistency checks. This may take longer while loading but it is definitly worth it to have same circumstances for every player!
Greetings
it would be too time consuming for admins to whitelist each new mod that comes around. Having a server setting which allows different level of modding would be a good feature. For example, a level 0 is pure server, level 1 allows hud mods, level 2 allows level 1 mods plus model mods etc. However its a delicate balance for game performance as we already know that this game seems to struggle delivering high in-game performance.
I remember in CS 1.6 days, there were models which had giant spikes coming out of them which would protrude through walls. Now this is clearly a form of hacking and obviously not in the intention of fair gameplay.
It should be clearly evident if a player is allowed to use mods to enhance their ability or aesthetics. I for one wouldn't want to play on a server to be disadvantaged because another player has installed mods which paints skulks neon colours. The skulks advantage to blend in is one of its' main advantages and anything that changes that is changing the balance of the game.
In my opinion, mods detract from the CORE gameplay which is the majority of players. Modding should be considered the minority, but should also be acknowledged as an important aspect of the game for longevity and creativity.
The issue isn't the mods that put a custom decal on your rifle, it's the ones that just delete the rifle model.
One is cosmetic, the other gives an advantage.
For example, I assume the skulk is the color he is for a reason. I mean, he isn't pink, he is a color which blends in well with the surroundings, and its a class made for ambushing. Sounds planned.
So in such a case, why is it possible to change the skulks skin at all? Its clearly a preconceived design choice, so why are players able to undo these choices at all? The jetpack has slow lift while moving forward, but I haven't found a legal mod that allows players to remove this. It may not sound like the same thing, but if its a design choice, then players should not simply be able to undo it, regardless of what it is.
I am generally against changes on of any type to the released game, and I don't like that they have been included to the degree that they have. New game modes created by players are fine, but if you allow players to change every little part of your officially released game, then how many aspects of your game are just there for the sake of being there, rather than being conscious design choices?
Someone's desire to have a decal on their weapon should not out weigh the need to have a level playing field.
That said, in NS2 rambo wont win a team the game, he may be annoying but if you know he's using skin mods gang up on him, Ive done this before with friends.
In any case, I don't think the negative outways the positive the modding community can bring on the table. Let people customise the look of their game if they want to, even if it might be in their advantage. It's not like they're wallhacking, speedhacking or aimbotting. They'll still have to play decent to win games.
In a game where one team strongly relies on hiding from the other in certain situations this statement is just wrong.
I mean, why forbid Wallhack? its not like you cant kill that hacking person anyway...
I mean, why forbid Wallhack? its not like you cant kill that hacking person anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't approve of changing skulk textures to a bright white. But I don't think it's a big enough problem worth limiting the customisation options of players.
That said, in NS2 rambo wont win a team the game, he may be annoying but if you know he's using skin mods gang up on him, Ive done this before with friends.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No he/she likely wont win the game for their team but he/she can make playing against him/her annoying.
I think the time will come that we do have to start cracking down on some of the easier exploits (such as models or textures)...we will always have aimbotters and the like...but they are always in lower numbers as you do risk VAC bans (where models currently are not checked by most servers).
Where the ###### are the nude mods for aliens as well, sort it out modders ffs, need a NS2nexus website to get this done properly bunch of amateurs over here.
Can anyone tell me why there's a pinkskulk.dds in the game files as well, specifically a bright pink skulk, was this a spectator feature once?
One is cosmetic, the other gives an advantage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
crosshairs give the same advantage too. Going to ban those as well?
While I do think a puple dot gives a certain advantage compared to the normal light blue thing I can accept people using them. That'S because I think you get the same kind of benefit from things like disabling rich infestation etc.
Anything above this however I personally regard as a form of cheat.
I know it's not a perfect method but it will help.
I prefer servers which allow me to do whatever I like with my game. It is just for me. And I prefer a prettier much more eyefriendly alien vision, models, UI etc.
And to be honest, the vanilla game has so many aweful things.
aliensight, scans, crosshair, minimap, large map.....
Not enough servers allow you to customize your alien sight. (I use "Gliss Vision" or "minimal Alien Vision", which are so much prettier)
Cheating has been part of the internet. Just because some people abuse it should not mean everyone has to suffer.
I avoid HBZ servers due to that. I like my models alot more.
First server I faved was the one who allowed me to use Gliss Vision.
Greetings
The best solution is really to get an equivalent of sv_pure 2 in the game and mark the server with a specific color that are configured with it.
It's like saying that turning on alien vision will alter gameplay. The issue is that it is part of the game. Use it or not, that's personal choice. When people make graphic changes to the game via methods from outside the game, then you can call it 'cheating'. However, saying that it's cheating to change the in game settings is just plain silly.
While I do think a puple dot gives a certain advantage compared to the normal light blue thing I can accept people using them. That'S because I think you get the same kind of benefit from things like disabling rich infestation etc.
Anything above this however I personally regard as a form of cheat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a mod that makes gorges shoot out hearts instead of green ###### because it's adorable. Does this make me a cheater?
I have a mod that makes powernodes have a sick little dinosaur on them. Does that make me a cheater?
I have a mod that makes gorges' eyes slightly bigger, called cute gorge eyes. Does that make me a cheater?
I have a mod that makes my rifle pink with a hello kitty symbol on it. Does that make me a cheater?
There are a ###### ton more mods than there are neon green skins. Don't punish us all because a few people don't know how to turn up their contrast.