Nah Darkling, the point is you want w2 sgs for fades normally, but since 252 a fade is a strong skulk (lol) oh no wait even shittier since one fade takes 2 minutes to kill a pg < LOL
By nerfing aliens, especially fades, they didn't kill the fade ball they killed the skill involved in the game since i would say skill wise alien goes like this gorge>lerk>fade>skulk>onos (:>)
For the sixpack, it is important that you keep your diet in check CCTE, i would recommend a french diet:
Black coffee without cream (it's for girls), a baguette cut in half with butter on it, add some sour orange jam on it depending on your taste.
I'm of the view that a1 is pointless in pubgames because people can't aim and don't know what the heck they are doing
This is exactly why you always get a1 first in pub... armor is always useful regardless of how well anyone can aim, damage is only useful if you can hit things. It's by far more efficient to increase the survivability of bad marines.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
@herakl3s
nah.. shotties w1 will do fine vs the early fades. And if you didnt manage some armor, weapon and shotty ups at the 5min mark you were already losing.
As a player I am a competent marine at killing, so I personally prefer Armour 1 first. As a pretty good commander though it always depends on the situation. For example if the team is staying alive quite well, I will usually get Weapons 1st, if they are dying more then I would like, then I would get weapons 1st. The same applies to weapons and armour 2, all depends on the teams situation in that particular game and what I think is necessary. Another thing I tend to do as com is ask they team which they prefer 1st if the situation can be a choice of either. In that case the majority vote wins the research. So really when ever it comes down to choosing, it all depends on how the game is going, which can be affected by what the kharra decide to upgrade and what strategy they are using
I'm of the view that a1 is pointless in pubgames because people can't aim and don't know what the heck they are doing
This is exactly why you always get a1 first in pub... armor is always useful regardless of how well anyone can aim, damage is only useful if you can hit things. It's by far more efficient to increase the survivability of bad marines.
A1 is useless because it's 3 bites either way, at least 70% of the time pub skulks aren't going to parasite first. A2 however is extremely useful.
I usually go for W1 first in pubs, because as sotanaht mentioned the only added benefit of A1 is the removal of the para+2bite combo which is very rarely used. Likewise, most of those guys don't exactly have amazing accuracy, so getting those extra damage points helps.
We had a long discussion about this within my team and I always thought A1 > W1.
Coming from ns1, I never questioned the advantages of A1 over W1 because
most of early rt harassments were done by a squad with a shotgunner so early firepower
wasn't such a necessity. Now that rt harassment is done by LMGs in NS2, I see why some
teams would go W1 first over A1. Also, our teammates pointed out that after the initial
engagement (provided that you have been bitten at least once), the effectiveness
of A1 is 0 from there on.
Anyhow, our team's conclusion was that it doens't matter if we go A1 or W1 as long as
we win engagements and keep upgrades coming.
But I still feel more confident when engaging in fights with A1.
W1 is good for you because it makes sure you only need 10 bullets for a skulk. People tend to forget natural regen on aliens - unless you hammer down a skulk in one burst, he will in all likelyhood reg at least 1 hp and then you need another hit. Doesn't sound like much, but still. I tend to get upgrades depending on my teams and my opponents playstyle. If the rines are walking in groups >= 3 men or the aliens are frightened pansies, it's weapons 1 first.
W1 is good for you because it makes sure you only need 10 bullets for a skulk. People tend to forget natural regen on aliens - unless you hammer down a skulk in one burst, he will in all likelyhood reg at least 1 hp and then you need another hit. Doesn't sound like much, but still. I tend to get upgrades depending on my teams and my opponents playstyle. If the rines are walking in groups >= 3 men or the aliens are frightened pansies, it's weapons 1 first.
1 more bullet to kill a skulk is what... 0.05 seconds? you don't fire 10 individual shots anyway, you probably overkill by at least 4-5 shots. it's really not down to calculations, it's simply the fact that damage is fundamentally superior to armor unless special breakpoints come into effect.
bonus whenever you attack -VS- bonus when you defend only if your hp drops below X
W1 is good for you because it makes sure you only need 10 bullets for a skulk. People tend to forget natural regen on aliens - unless you hammer down a skulk in one burst, he will in all likelyhood reg at least 1 hp and then you need another hit. Doesn't sound like much, but still. I tend to get upgrades depending on my teams and my opponents playstyle. If the rines are walking in groups >= 3 men or the aliens are frightened pansies, it's weapons 1 first.
1 more bullet to kill a skulk is what... 0.05 seconds? you don't fire 10 individual shots anyway, you probably overkill by at least 4-5 shots. it's really not down to calculations, it's simply the fact that damage is fundamentally superior to armor unless special breakpoints come into effect.
bonus whenever you attack -VS- bonus when you defend only if your hp drops below X
It's better to look at it as a % of time you deal 90 damage to a skulk and die
It actually happens to me quite a bit
One way to think about the two:
If you have armor1 and you survive with less than 40 health, armor1 was useful
If you have weap0 and deal 90 damage to a skulk then die, weap1 would have been useful
W1 is good for you because it makes sure you only need 10 bullets for a skulk. People tend to forget natural regen on aliens - unless you hammer down a skulk in one burst, he will in all likelyhood reg at least 1 hp and then you need another hit. Doesn't sound like much, but still. I tend to get upgrades depending on my teams and my opponents playstyle. If the rines are walking in groups >= 3 men or the aliens are frightened pansies, it's weapons 1 first.
1 more bullet to kill a skulk is what... 0.05 seconds? you don't fire 10 individual shots anyway, you probably overkill by at least 4-5 shots. it's really not down to calculations, it's simply the fact that damage is fundamentally superior to armor unless special breakpoints come into effect.
bonus whenever you attack -VS- bonus when you defend only if your hp drops below X
It's better to look at it as a % of time you deal 90 damage to a skulk and die
It actually happens to me quite a bit
One way to think about the two:
If you have armor1 and you survive with less than 40 health, armor1 was useful
If you have weap0 and deal 90 damage to a skulk then die, weap1 would have been useful
i agree... but still think the extra calculations are unnecessary because it's fundamentally better... to me, doing the calculations seems is like having to calculate the best way to walk down some stairs - maybe it could be better to throw yourself down face first - but only if there's an end goal to make it worthwhile.
I just think about how hard it is to kill a marine that takes more than 3 bites. Practically impossible is what it is, especially if they can jump. That's why I want A2 ASAP, it pretty much makes skulks useless.
armor one is better on large servers, it can save you money on second ip, so then you can rush weapon one right after armor one.
While I tend to agree, it's also true that weapons 1 can save you in the same way that armour 1 does, because your marines will be shooting skulks that little bit sooner.
pub, armor is nice, but really, where my welds at?
This is another reason I go weapons in pubs, because I know if I was on the field I'd rather have an upgrade always working than a one off before I die.
pub, armor is nice, but really, where my welds at?
This is another reason I go weapons in pubs, because I know if I was on the field I'd rather have an upgrade always working than a one off before I die.
also, taking down rts is a fulltime job. and Rt duty is usually a suicide job anyway.
and a full lmg clip on wep 0 doesn't kill a cyst reliably. I like to lmg pistol the cyst then unload 3 magazines into the harvester. bonus points for that nice juicy drifter. which wept upgrades helps kill before the comm can react.
I usually go for W1 first in pubs, because as sotanaht mentioned the only added benefit of A1 is the removal of the para+2bite combo which is very rarely used. Likewise, most of those guys don't exactly have amazing accuracy, so getting those extra damage points helps.
The damage done by a marine with no accuracy is zero whether its w0 or w3. The value in such players are that they can soak up enough damage to give your competent shooters the time needed to win the game for you.
Also, your comparing the value of a1 on the basis of vs skulks, but the real value is vs gorges (2-3 early gorges with spit/hydras can be very deadly) and lerks (spikes/bite and later spores). Unless you have enough good shooters, the marginal value of w1 is less than a1 particularly in the crucial fights vs gorges and lerks.
Honestly, I'd figure out if aliens went shift first; majority of the time (now) they go shift, so I'd safe A1 is a safe bet, w1 just reduces the effect of cara and if they don't have it then it doesn't matter; plus if everyone can aim i'd rather have them be able to take one more impact which I can med and have them further secure the map
I'm a field player though but that's my perspective from my 'decent' commanding, since the economy is pretty slow for aliens tres wise, you could even go A2 before W1 if they went shift
But if they're doing well, then get w1 sooner w/ SGs because once fades start rotating and taking out your builder/securing the map you gonna have a sad sad day
I'm of the view that a1 is pointless in pubgames because people can't aim and don't know what the heck they are doing
This is exactly why you always get a1 first in pub... armor is always useful regardless of how well anyone can aim, damage is only useful if you can hit things. It's by far more efficient to increase the survivability of bad marines.
A1 is useless because it's 3 bites either way, at least 70% of the time pub skulks aren't going to parasite first. A2 however is extremely useful.
I suggest A2 then W1.
A1 is pretty nice to have when lerks come out in my experience.
I usually go for W1 first in pubs, because as sotanaht mentioned the only added benefit of A1 is the removal of the para+2bite combo which is very rarely used. Likewise, most of those guys don't exactly have amazing accuracy, so getting those extra damage points helps.
The damage done by a marine with no accuracy is zero whether its w0 or w3. The value in such players are that they can soak up enough damage to give your competent shooters the time needed to win the game for you.
Also, your comparing the value of a1 on the basis of vs skulks, but the real value is vs gorges (2-3 early gorges with spit/hydras can be very deadly) and lerks (spikes/bite and later spores). Unless you have enough good shooters, the marginal value of w1 is less than a1 particularly in the crucial fights vs gorges and lerks.
If the marine has 0% accuracy it will make no difference, but if he has, say 6-8% accuracy (with 15 being the amount you probably want to have), it will make a difference because he will need to connect with fewer bullets. Very few bad players actually miss every shot they take, so talking about 0% accuracy doesn't really apply.
I don't think gorges and lerks are nearly as relevant as skulks for this comparison, seeing as players are unlikely to encounter gorges or lerks in the opening minutes. By the time lerks come up, I will generally be on w1 a1, unless my team cannot hold any RTs which likely means we would lose no matter what. So unless there is a very aggressive gorge (which does not occur often, they usually stick to naturals in the opening minutes) then encounters that occur in the first 2-3 minutes of the game exclusively involve skulks. On top of this, welder use is not as common in pubs as it is in organized play, further decreasing the value of armor upgrades as compared to weapons.
Granted, I will always research a1 right after w1, so we're really only talking about a window of about a minute here, but I still think that at the public level weapons 1 gives more value as a first research than armor 1.
Comments
By nerfing aliens, especially fades, they didn't kill the fade ball they killed the skill involved in the game since i would say skill wise alien goes like this gorge>lerk>fade>skulk>onos (:>)
For the sixpack, it is important that you keep your diet in check CCTE, i would recommend a french diet:
Black coffee without cream (it's for girls), a baguette cut in half with butter on it, add some sour orange jam on it depending on your taste.
This is exactly why you always get a1 first in pub... armor is always useful regardless of how well anyone can aim, damage is only useful if you can hit things. It's by far more efficient to increase the survivability of bad marines.
nah.. shotties w1 will do fine vs the early fades. And if you didnt manage some armor, weapon and shotty ups at the 5min mark you were already losing.
A1 is useless because it's 3 bites either way, at least 70% of the time pub skulks aren't going to parasite first. A2 however is extremely useful.
I suggest A2 then W1.
Ma bad, fixed.
Pretty much what i meant, been the safest build since beta
Coming from ns1, I never questioned the advantages of A1 over W1 because
most of early rt harassments were done by a squad with a shotgunner so early firepower
wasn't such a necessity. Now that rt harassment is done by LMGs in NS2, I see why some
teams would go W1 first over A1. Also, our teammates pointed out that after the initial
engagement (provided that you have been bitten at least once), the effectiveness
of A1 is 0 from there on.
Anyhow, our team's conclusion was that it doens't matter if we go A1 or W1 as long as
we win engagements and keep upgrades coming.
But I still feel more confident when engaging in fights with A1.
1 more bullet to kill a skulk is what... 0.05 seconds? you don't fire 10 individual shots anyway, you probably overkill by at least 4-5 shots. it's really not down to calculations, it's simply the fact that damage is fundamentally superior to armor unless special breakpoints come into effect.
bonus whenever you attack -VS- bonus when you defend only if your hp drops below X
It's better to look at it as a % of time you deal 90 damage to a skulk and die
It actually happens to me quite a bit
One way to think about the two:
If you have armor1 and you survive with less than 40 health, armor1 was useful
If you have weap0 and deal 90 damage to a skulk then die, weap1 would have been useful
I prefer weapon upgrades as long as you have lvl2 upgrades around the 9min mark and as long as aliens don't go phantom first.
i agree... but still think the extra calculations are unnecessary because it's fundamentally better... to me, doing the calculations seems is like having to calculate the best way to walk down some stairs - maybe it could be better to throw yourself down face first - but only if there's an end goal to make it worthwhile.
I'm sure you can find a broken power node to self-weld on if you are desperate.
This is another reason I go weapons in pubs, because I know if I was on the field I'd rather have an upgrade always working than a one off before I die.
also, taking down rts is a fulltime job. and Rt duty is usually a suicide job anyway.
and a full lmg clip on wep 0 doesn't kill a cyst reliably. I like to lmg pistol the cyst then unload 3 magazines into the harvester. bonus points for that nice juicy drifter. which wept upgrades helps kill before the comm can react.
Also, your comparing the value of a1 on the basis of vs skulks, but the real value is vs gorges (2-3 early gorges with spit/hydras can be very deadly) and lerks (spikes/bite and later spores). Unless you have enough good shooters, the marginal value of w1 is less than a1 particularly in the crucial fights vs gorges and lerks.
I'm a field player though but that's my perspective from my 'decent' commanding, since the economy is pretty slow for aliens tres wise, you could even go A2 before W1 if they went shift
But if they're doing well, then get w1 sooner w/ SGs because once fades start rotating and taking out your builder/securing the map you gonna have a sad sad day
A1 is pretty nice to have when lerks come out in my experience.
If the marine has 0% accuracy it will make no difference, but if he has, say 6-8% accuracy (with 15 being the amount you probably want to have), it will make a difference because he will need to connect with fewer bullets. Very few bad players actually miss every shot they take, so talking about 0% accuracy doesn't really apply.
I don't think gorges and lerks are nearly as relevant as skulks for this comparison, seeing as players are unlikely to encounter gorges or lerks in the opening minutes. By the time lerks come up, I will generally be on w1 a1, unless my team cannot hold any RTs which likely means we would lose no matter what. So unless there is a very aggressive gorge (which does not occur often, they usually stick to naturals in the opening minutes) then encounters that occur in the first 2-3 minutes of the game exclusively involve skulks. On top of this, welder use is not as common in pubs as it is in organized play, further decreasing the value of armor upgrades as compared to weapons.
Granted, I will always research a1 right after w1, so we're really only talking about a window of about a minute here, but I still think that at the public level weapons 1 gives more value as a first research than armor 1.