GPU Boost and NS2

babochee · October 2013

For what ever reason my SLI'd GTX 780's core clock will never go over 600-650mhz, and yet I'm playing at 40-50fps most of the time... I want to be @ 100+ all the time since any input lag drives me Cr@zY. Why arn't my cards clocking up to 1200+mhz like they do in other games? Is this is a server side issue?

Also, I get the same issue with just 1 card in.

Who is the culprit? or am i doing something wrong?

Thx

Ofc vsync is off... dont insult me

ezekel · October 2013

you're probably not using an nvidia driver that has the SLI profiles for natural selection 2; what render-er do you have ns2 set as? anyway just grab your latest drivers (if it's beta then get the beta)

Warning: Always read up on the nvidia forum before getting a driver to see errors people are having, if you notice a common error in a game you play then I'd wait for the next driver release, nvidia drivers are known to fix one thing, then break fifty other things.. I'm on what's considered a pretty outdated driver now because I know it's stable and the only game (that I remember) has any issues is black ops 2, which I don't give a crap about; stability > newest driver

wopwop · October 2013

Are you sure you're not being bottlenecked by your CPU regardless of your GPUs frequency?

ezekel · October 2013

wopwop wrote: »

Are you sure you're not being bottlenecked by your CPU regardless of your GPUs frequency?

I'm not sure that would cause his cards to downclock (or not upclock, whichever)

babochee · October 2013

- I do have the latest drivers, and its not just with 2 cards, its with 1. I have it set in EVGA Precision to target 120fps. Ill get 120 fps in the ready room and during the beginning of the game but once people start joining and things get going in game... it goes from 40 to 60 to 120 back to 40 and 60. It wont just stay @ 120... I play metro Last Light with Nvidia surround and get better FPS

-I have messed with dx9 and dx11 settings with same effect

-My CPU is a i5 3570 sitting @ 4.8ghz with a 480x120 rad cooling it.

Again, this is with just 1 card as well as 2... SLI has nothing 2 do with this. SLI profiles arnt the issue, nor the drivers, Ive tried this on 3 different drivers

Im wondering why GPU boost keeps my clocks under 700mhz, this problem just blows my mind... I want a way to be able to set my core speed to whatever I want.

ezekel · October 2013

"For what ever reason my SLI'd GTX 780's core clock will never go over 600-650mhz"

You seem confused, anyway I'm not sure what evga precision is but it sounds like crap that you should disable, I'm getting way better frames than you on a lower cpu clock (even though I have multi-threading, but should make no difference) and one generation down (but maybe my card might be better? but you have two)

So disable that, list your full specs/driver version, resolution, and graphic settings and hopefully someone can further assist you because your performance 'should' be higher

Also let me know if turning off that 3rd party gpu tool makes a difference, I never use those kind of things

wopwop · October 2013

When things get messy in mid-late game, as your fps goes down,

open console - type r_stats
there should be an information about how much time your CPU spends waiting for your GPU, displayed in milliseconds.
If you get 0 ms, that indicates a CPU bottleneck.

As for the frequency, I don't know. It should run at standard frequency during heavy 3D load.
If you have a CPU bottleneck, which is likely in NS2, maybe it could be some kind of energy saving feature introduced in the 7xx series? I'm not up to date on these cards, duh

ezekel · October 2013

wopwop wrote: »

When things get messy in mid-late game, as your fps goes down,

open console - type r_stats
there should be an information about how much time your CPU spends waiting for your GPU, displayed in milliseconds.
If you get 0 ms, that indicates a CPU bottleneck.

As for the frequency, I don't know. It should run at standard frequency during heavy 3D load.
If you have a CPU bottleneck, which is likely in NS2, maybe it could be some kind of energy saving feature introduced in the 7xx series? I'm not up to date on these cards, duh

you might be right, maybe he should try turning in the control panel -always max performance- instead of energy saver or whatever; he said his cpu is clocked @ 4.8ghz.. doubt it's the cpu

babochee · October 2013

ezekel wrote: »

"For what ever reason my SLI'd GTX 780's core clock will never go over 600-650mhz"

You seem confused, anyway I'm not sure what evga precision is but it sounds like crap that you should disable, I'm getting way better frames than you on a lower cpu clock (even though I have multi-threading, but should make no difference) and one generation down (but maybe my card might be better? but you have two)

So disable that, list your full specs/driver version, resolution, and graphic settings and hopefully someone can further assist you because your performance 'should' be higher

Also let me know if turning off that 3rd party gpu tool makes a difference, I never use those kind of things

How am I confused? My cores in SLI dont go over 600mhz as well as the single card configuration.... I'm now confused as to why you're confused.

wopwop wrote: »

When things get messy in mid-late game, as your fps goes down,

open console - type r_stats
there should be an information about how much time your CPU spends waiting for your GPU, displayed in milliseconds.
If you get 0 ms, that indicates a CPU bottleneck.

As for the frequency, I don't know. It should run at standard frequency during heavy 3D load.
If you have a CPU bottleneck, which is likely in NS2, maybe it could be some kind of energy saving feature introduced in the 7xx series? I'm not up to date on these cards, duh

It does say 0ms, how would that indicate a CPU bottleneck?
My you think ns2 is causing my 4.8ghz i5 3570 to bottleneck? O_O Im running the game at the lowest settings @ 1920x1080, I cant see how that is possible.

I threw these same cards in my i7 system, same issue.

babochee · October 2013

Yeah, the fps just drop from 120 to 55 and back over and over. Even if I dont move the mouse

wopwop · October 2013

Uhm I have no idea about that wild variation. It sure is strange.

The 0ms indicates a CPU bottleneck because, as I understood, well, your CPU is *not* waiting for your GPU to render frames.
That means it's working as much as it can... it's the GPU waiting for the CPU.

As I said, NS2 is a heavily CPU dependant game.
Playing at lowest settings shouldn't really help: most video settings are more GPU than CPU intensive... you are just shifting more relative load on the CPU that way. The bottleneck remains.

Testing on an i7 shouldn't help at all, identical results are no surprise.
All i7s have over i5s is hyperthreading. Almost - if any - no game benefits of it, let alone NS2 that only uses 1 core and a fraction of a 2nd core.

As a side note, I'm on a 2500K + 6950 2gb.
The CPU is stock now, but as NS2 only uses mostly 1 core, it should self clock around 3,8 ghz.
In mid-late game I'm *always* bottlenecked by my CPU, when I dip around 40s.

I had the same bottleneck on my CPU when it was clocked at 4,4 ghz too.
Your 3570 @ 4,8 is quite a bit better obviously, but the gap between my 6950 and your GTX780 is enormous (we're looking at a 100% increase in power).

If I'm bottlenecked with a 6950, then it doesn't surprise me you get a CPU bottleneck with that much more powerful video card.

About the variation, that's a different problem imho.
Do you, by any chance, have a monitor on your GPU frequency / load?

MSI afterburner is a great tool to keep track of that data; it records core frequency and load % over time, so you can check if weird stuff is going on.

Davil · October 2013

Well I have a pair of GTX 680's and I tend to maintain around 140. So let's try a few things, one check your vsync settings and try changing it. I have vsync set to triple buffering and it doesn't limit my fps to 60 like it should but maybe not having it on at all could be a problem for you. The next thing is try turning on PhysX which in the general setting for the game, since you have a 780 your card will do advanced physx which will allow one gpu to process physics and take load off your cpu and also makes debris and stuff look better in most games. The next thing would be to try switching the game to fullscreen windowed mode. If you have 2 monitors keep Precision up on the other monitor and make sure your cards aren't overheating at all, this sounds like the most likely culprit due to the fact that you're saying the game gets slower as time goes on. If your card is getting up to about 80 or so it's probably throttling to reduce the temperature and that would explain a lot of things. I'd also try disabling target framerate as it's not a very good tool to be honest, most of the time I find it doesn't work as intended anyway. And the last thing you could try would be to download the newest beta drivers 331.40 as they have a new DX11 SLI profile in them.

Edit* Missed the part about your cpu being the bottleneck, I would recommend getting a program called Real Temp, let it run while you're playing the game and check the max temps. If they're anywhere above 80 you can expect your cpu to be throttling, you can still try all that other stuff though particularly the PhysX part. And also what kind of cooling are you using on your CPU?

IronHorse · October 2013

*Moved to tech support*

Please upload your techsupport.exe zip file. (found in your ns2 install dir)
Need that to analyze your hardware and drivers and ns2 logs etc etc...

But yea.. if you are 0ms waiting on GPU, then you are CPU bottle necked.
You shouldn't be with that OC tho, so something is wrong.
Provide the zip file and we'll go on from there

babochee · October 2013

wopwop wrote: »

Uhm I have no idea about that wild variation. It sure is strange.

The 0ms indicates a CPU bottleneck because, as I understood, well, your CPU is *not* waiting for your GPU to render frames.
That means it's working as much as it can... it's the GPU waiting for the CPU.

As I said, NS2 is a heavily CPU dependant game.
Playing at lowest settings shouldn't really help: most video settings are more GPU than CPU intensive... you are just shifting more relative load on the CPU that way. The bottleneck remains.

Testing on an i7 shouldn't help at all, identical results are no surprise.
All i7s have over i5s is hyperthreading. Almost - if any - no game benefits of it, let alone NS2 that only uses 1 core and a fraction of a 2nd core.

As a side note, I'm on a 2500K + 6950 2gb.
The CPU is stock now, but as NS2 only uses mostly 1 core, it should self clock around 3,8 ghz.
In mid-late game I'm *always* bottlenecked by my CPU, when I dip around 40s.

I had the same bottleneck on my CPU when it was clocked at 4,4 ghz too.
Your 3570 @ 4,8 is quite a bit better obviously, but the gap between my 6950 and your GTX780 is enormous (we're looking at a 100% increase in power).

If I'm bottlenecked with a 6950, then it doesn't surprise me you get a CPU bottleneck with that much more powerful video card.

About the variation, that's a different problem imho.
Do you, by any chance, have a monitor on your GPU frequency / load?

MSI afterburner is a great tool to keep track of that data; it records core frequency and load % over time, so you can check if weird stuff is going on.

Yeah I use EVGA's tool for monitoring

Davil wrote: »

Well I have a pair of GTX 680's and I tend to maintain around 140. So let's try a few things, one check your vsync settings and try changing it. I have vsync set to triple buffering and it doesn't limit my fps to 60 like it should but maybe not having it on at all could be a problem for you. The next thing is try turning on PhysX which in the general setting for the game, since you have a 780 your card will do advanced physx which will allow one gpu to process physics and take load off your cpu and also makes debris and stuff look better in most games. The next thing would be to try switching the game to fullscreen windowed mode. If you have 2 monitors keep Precision up on the other monitor and make sure your cards aren't overheating at all, this sounds like the most likely culprit due to the fact that you're saying the game gets slower as time goes on. If your card is getting up to about 80 or so it's probably throttling to reduce the temperature and that would explain a lot of things. I'd also try disabling target framerate as it's not a very good tool to be honest, most of the time I find it doesn't work as intended anyway. And the last thing you could try would be to download the newest beta drivers 331.40 as they have a new DX11 SLI profile in them.

Edit* Missed the part about your cpu being the bottleneck, I would recommend getting a program called Real Temp, let it run while you're playing the game and check the max temps. If they're anywhere above 80 you can expect your cpu to be throttling, you can still try all that other stuff though particularly the PhysX part. And also what kind of cooling are you using on your CPU?

They arn't overheating, my room stays around 20c and almost never goes over 21c. My gtx 780's are Galaxy's HOF version of the card... so the cooling is adaquate... especially since my cards dont go over 600mhz in game. The cards stay around 50c during game-play.

As for realtemp, I keep it going all the time. Ive been building gaming rigs since 1993. My cpu never goes over 45c unless I'm benchmarking.

Thanks for the tips

Cpu clocks down to 4.2ghz when on the desktop

babochee · October 2013

Just checked, the physx is on

dePARA · October 2013

1st - your log is from ibisgaming, one of the worst servers out there.
No matter what hardware you are using, you will get ALWAYS bad performance there.

Next try following:
go %appdata%/ and delete the natural selection 2 folder

Restart the game and dont skip the optimation (your shaders compiling during game, wich is not normal)

babochee · October 2013

Changed the vsync to triple buffer and turned off the EVGA precision target fps off... when I just stare @ the floor the fps go from 200 to exactly 80 and back again over and over again within 2-3 seconds. So weird....

I also noticed that the clock speed on my gpu core goes from 536mhz when the fps rise to 200 and then rises to 692mhz and then 810mhz for a split second when the fps drops to 80. But when I alt tab into ns2 from the desktop the gpu core is clocked @ 1082mhz and the fps stay at 200 for about 5 seconds before the fps begins to jump back and forth from 80 to 200 again. No matter what im doing

Davil · October 2013

Have you tried switching between the Dx9 and Dx11 modes?

dePARA · October 2013

And again:
Your GPU is compiling the shaders during the game again and again, wich is not normal.
During this compilation process your GPU-clock rise and the fps drops.

Try to delete cache folder in %appdata%/Natural selection 2 or the whole natural selection 2 folder to reset the game in %appdata% .
Dont skip the optimation process @ gamestart

You should also try to play on better servers after that.

babochee · October 2013

This problem exists in every server, not just ibisgaming. Good to know that server isnt worth playing in. How do you tell? With the performance setting under play?

Thx for this info, Ill give it a try.

Do you mean this folder? C:\Users\BABO\AppData\Roaming\Natural Selection 2

babochee · October 2013

Ok, I deleted the cache folder. Without even joining and game and sitting at the main menu, the problem is still there. Goes from 80 to 200 fps non-stop. Joined a game, same issue. There was no optimization process that occured. Grrr....

Ill try deleting the entire NS2 folder now.

babochee · October 2013

After deleting the entire folder the game loaded in 1280x800... the fps was still jumping from 80 to 160 non-stop at the game menu. Joined a game, same issue. I then changed the resolution to 1920*1080. Rejoined a game and now the fps drop to 78, pause for a second and rise to 200 and pause for a second and back again.

No optimization process occurred during any of this.

xDragon · October 2013

if your r_stats always shows 0, even when your FPS is dropping, then type profile in console to open the profiler. Space pauses/resumes it, and you can use [ and ] to move between frames. Run the profiler for a bit then use [ or ] to select one of the tall (slow) frames, and post SS.

I would also turn off any kind of dynamic vsync/vsync/triple buffering as those can cause your fps to dip when you drop below certain thresholds. The Precision FPS target is also something I would turn off, atleast for testing.

Ironsoul · October 2013

what the heck, your core is at 600mhz? The stock clock for the 780 is 863MHz on the core. So for some unknown reason your card is underclocked to about 2/3 it's capacity. I recommend you check your temperatures and fan speeds. EVGA precision might be holding your fan speeds low, the GPU goes "woah, I got no thermal headroom, I'll just underclock to stop from bursting into flames".

I was using MSI afterburner and somehow managed to lock my 7970 fan speed at 20%, anyway, this caused my GPU to throttle to stop itself overheating. The thing which clued me into that fact (aside from the quiet fan noise hah) was the 100 degree gpu temperature. So if you GPU(s) are running at high temperatures they will throttle. Be sure your fan speeds are set to auto with no customised fan speed ramps.

babochee wrote: »

After deleting the entire folder the game loaded in 1280x800... the fps was still jumping from 80 to 160 non-stop at the game menu. Joined a game, same issue. I then changed the resolution to 1920*1080. Rejoined a game and now the fps drop to 78, pause for a second and rise to 200 and pause for a second and back again.

No optimization process occurred during any of this.

That there (jumping from 80 to 160) makes me think that it's definitely thermal throttling due to fan speed being too low. It's exactly what my 7970 did, my framerate would jump from 30 to 60 (different game) every 5 seconds or so.

ezekel · October 2013

Didn't read through all the posts, but try this

1) Disable precision/manual control panel taking over ns2.exe the application (let the game decide for itself) - also do not use v-sync.. you can't even hope to hit your framerates with v-sync on

2) Set your GPU from energy saver mode to use maximum performance, and then see if it goes up to your clock speeds

This is a weird issue, and I'm almost certain it's being caused by something you either did in control panel or with some 3rd party application

Ironsoul · October 2013

babochee wrote: »

Why arn't my cards clocking up to 1200+mhz like they do in other games? Is this is a server side issue?

If my theory is correct and it's thermal throttling. Most other games don't really push graphics cards to their extremes. One example I can think of is Chivalry medieval warfare. At 1920x1080, my graphics card gets about 60% usage on the gpu.

Natural selection 2 on the other hand will push a graphics card to it's limits; 100% usage.

If the GPU isn't being utilised fully, it won't produce as much heat and will run at full speed if able. If the GPU is being stressed out completely, it will become (very) hot and do one of three things to cool itself down: first, increase the fan speed. Second, it will downclock the gpu core and finally, if all else fails, it'll shut the computer down.

So in other games, the GPU won't overheat if it's not being completely used, and will run at it's full clock: 1200mhz. But in NS2, if it gets too hot, it'll downlock itself to stay within thermal limits.

babochee · October 2013

Ironsoul wrote: »

babochee wrote: »

Why arn't my cards clocking up to 1200+mhz like they do in other games? Is this is a server side issue?

If my theory is correct and it's thermal throttling. Most other games don't really push graphics cards to their extremes. One example I can think of is Chivalry medieval warfare. At 1920x1080, my graphics card gets about 60% usage on the gpu.

Natural selection 2 on the other hand will push a graphics card to it's limits; 100% usage.

If the GPU isn't being utilised fully, it won't produce as much heat and will run at full speed if able. If the GPU is being stressed out completely, it will become (very) hot and do one of three things to cool itself down: first, increase the fan speed. Second, it will downclock the gpu core and finally, if all else fails, it'll shut the computer down.

So in other games, the GPU won't overheat if it's not being completely used, and will run at it's full clock: 1200mhz. But in NS2, if it gets too hot, it'll downlock itself to stay within thermal limits.

It is in no way thermal throttling. If you saw what card I am using you would understand why. I run METRO LAST LIGHT on 3 screens with my core overclocked to 1300mhz and the card STILL runs cool. Maxes out at 75c. The card is set not to throttle until 94c. Which I can't even hit if I wanted to with the cooler this card is using. Plus my room sits at a solid 20c day in and day out.

http://www.amazon.com/Galaxy-GeForce-Express-Graphics-78XNH5DV8PXV/dp/B00DZIFN4M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1380853791&sr=8-1&keywords=gtx+780+hof

ezekel wrote: »

Didn't read through all the posts, but try this

1) Disable precision/manual control panel taking over ns2.exe the application (let the game decide for itself) - also do not use v-sync.. you can't even hope to hit your framerates with v-sync on

2) Set your GPU from energy saver mode to use maximum performance, and then see if it goes up to your clock speeds

This is a weird issue, and I'm almost certain it's being caused by something you either did in control panel or with some 3rd party application

I havent played with vsync on since 1992. Also, the energy saver mode changes nothing and I've tested my issue with zero third person gpu utilities and again, it changed nothing.

The problem is more complex than what most of ally are recommending, Ive been messing with high end gaming rigs for over 20 years now.

xDragon wrote: »

if your r_stats always shows 0, even when your FPS is dropping, then type profile in console to open the profiler. Space pauses/resumes it, and you can use [ and ] to move between frames. Run the profiler for a bit then use [ or ] to select one of the tall (slow) frames, and post SS.

I would also turn off any kind of dynamic vsync/vsync/triple buffering as those can cause your fps to dip when you drop below certain thresholds. The Precision FPS target is also something I would turn off, atleast for testing.

This I will try right now.

Thanks for the tips, the search continues.

babochee · October 2013

Ok, first off I want to thank everyone for their suggestions.

dePARA's idea of deleting the cache file in appdata along with reinstalling NS2 fixed the issue. Simply reinstalling didn't fix the issue but deleting this file along with reinstalling did.

I guess we wont find what was wrong, but that's the fix. Perhaps the issue will return, dunno.

babochee · October 2013

Ironsoul wrote: »

what the heck, your core is at 600mhz? The stock clock for the 780 is 863MHz on the core. So for some unknown reason your card is underclocked to about 2/3 it's capacity. I recommend you check your temperatures and fan speeds. EVGA precision might be holding your fan speeds low, the GPU goes "woah, I got no thermal headroom, I'll just underclock to stop from bursting into flames".

I was using MSI afterburner and somehow managed to lock my 7970 fan speed at 20%, anyway, this caused my GPU to throttle to stop itself overheating. The thing which clued me into that fact (aside from the quiet fan noise hah) was the 100 degree gpu temperature. So if you GPU(s) are running at high temperatures they will throttle. Be sure your fan speeds are set to auto with no customised fan speed ramps.

babochee wrote: »

After deleting the entire folder the game loaded in 1280x800... the fps was still jumping from 80 to 160 non-stop at the game menu. Joined a game, same issue. I then changed the resolution to 1920*1080. Rejoined a game and now the fps drop to 78, pause for a second and rise to 200 and pause for a second and back again.

No optimization process occurred during any of this.

That there (jumping from 80 to 160) makes me think that it's definitely thermal throttling due to fan speed being too low. It's exactly what my 7970 did, my framerate would jump from 30 to 60 (different game) every 5 seconds or so.

Just some food for thought, GPU boost clocks this card at 1100mhz out of the box.

Ironsoul · October 2013

I still think you accidentally bumped something to stop the fan spinning up :P

babochee wrote: »

I've tested my issue with zero third person gpu utilities and again, it changed nothing.

If you did bump something to set the fan speed to low, then even closing the program will keep the fan speed set low. I'll drop the subject now. I'm only talking from experience. The framerate jumping high and low is classic thermal throttling.

dePARA · October 2013

@babochee

You ask about how i know what servers are bad performing ones.

First indicator is warping during high fps
If you have warping and rubberbanding type net_stats in console and watch the serverrate.
Dont join servers going constantly under 20.
Last but not least you can compare servers on this site:
http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/index.php

Here is the graph from the server of your log-files for example:
http://ns2servers.devicenull.org/servers/273675/174.37.194.20:27015

GPU Boost and NS2

Comments