What upgrades do you use in alien?

2

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  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    No...being a 9 bullet kill is really really bad. Skill only takes you so far.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    Ghosthree3 wrote: »
    No...being a 9 bullet kill is really really bad. Skill only takes you so far.

    in this situation, im speaking to the players that skill hasn't taken far enough.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Adrenaline on the onos, and never onos without boneshield if you can help it.
    I usually get adrenaline lerk but have been experimenting with cele in early game recently. Both are viable but late game the cele is mostly pointless as you need energy for umbra and building biting.
    I wish cara gave the lerk an extra 10 to 20 armour over current. The lerk is very squashy against good marines.
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members
    edited December 2013
    Skulk: celery, phant, cara
    Gorge: adren, phant, cara (sometimes regen)
    Lerk: adren, aura, regen
    Fade: adren, phantom, regen
    Onos: adren, phantom, cara.
  • c_cc_c Norway Join Date: 2013-11-14 Member: 189371Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Skulk: Cele, phant, cara
    Gorge: Adren, phant, regen
    Lerk: Cele, aura, regen
    Fade: Adren, aura, regen
    Onos: Cele, aura, regen
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Skulk early: Regen/Cele/Phantom
    Skulk Late: Cara/Cele/Phantom (occasionally Aura)

    Battle-Gorge: Cele/Regen/Aura
    Support-Gorge: Adren/Regen (or Cara)/Aura

    Lerk: Adren/Regen/Aura (vs good shooters Cele instead of adren occasionally)

    Fade: Adren/Cara/Aura

    Onos: Cele/Regen/Aura (with good com/gorge support Cara)
  • CuelCuel Join Date: 2013-01-22 Member: 181295Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited December 2013
    Skulk : (cele/ cara) those extra shots with cara is simply worth it. If the marines knows how to aim, regen is useless. Adrenaline provides nothing for a skulk. More leap? You're not wall jumping correctly.

    Gorge (adren / cara): bile and heal drains too much energy to value celerity. Adren allows you to out heal marines shooting your hydras, celerity won't. Cara becuase you are the regen.

    Lerk: (cele/ cara), normally. Unless I want to play as support, then I'll take adren for umbra. As for carapace, If you are a "combo" lerk, and not only spiking, you will need that extra armor for melee. Flying back to the hive to heal will always be ten times faster then waiting for the slow regen.

    Fade: (cele / cara), the first time I even tried adrenaline was in 260 becuase of the energy changes. I couch stay in fights longer, but the speed decrease felt awful and made it harder to reach marines if you land one meter away. But now it feels much better with the changes in 261. Cara is just a no-brainer, that's what's keeping you alive. And same as the lerk, going backto hive is always faster then waiting for regen.

    Onos: (adren / cara): when charge is up, you basically have celerity. Managing energy with celerity will result in you having to escape faster and hoping that you have enough energy to out run any marines chasing you, the risk is too high. As with the other life forms, cara will help you stay alive. Running back to the hive takes longer but hopefully there's a friendly gorge to heal you after an encounter.

    All life forms: aura.

  • PatridgePatridge Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190135Members
    I like to use celerity and carapace as a skulk. Sometimes switching over to regen while I'm hiding so I don't have to get back to the hive. I use celerity early game as a gorge with regen most of the time. I don't play lerk. As fade, I often go celerity and regen. I don't find my energy management a problem at all. Onos is celerity and regen too.
  • MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
    edited December 2013
    My preferences...

    Skulk - Celerity / Phantom / Regen - If using Xenocide I'll take Aura and Carapace, but I find Adrenaline to be completely 100% useless for Skulks.

    Gorge - Adrenaline / Phantom / Carapace - Adrenaline and Carapace are both no brainers, and Aura isn't as useful as being able to build silently or use cloak to evade a group of Marines.

    Lerk - Celerity / Aura / Regen - Once Marines get shotguns I sometimes switch to Adrenaline for spiking from a distance. Though when biting or using Spores I always go back to Celerity. Adrenaline Lerks are just too slow when up against weapons upgrades and shotguns.

    Fade - Celerity / Phantom / Regen - If Marines have good aim and/or are good at spotting cloaked aliens I'll switch to Aura. Never had problems with my energy pool though, so I think Adrenaline is a bit of a waste.

    Onos - Celerity / Phantom / Regen - I never change this one up... Without Celerity I'm too slow, without Phantom I'm too loud, and without Regen I have to rely entirely on Gorges, Crags, and Hives to heal.


    If you haven't noticed, I think Carapace is a fairly worthless upgrade when compared to Regen. I only use it when Regen is pointless to have (ie Xeno Skulk or Gorge) lol

  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    edited December 2013
    Lol at all these phantom oni. You know the screen shakes when you move and the 5% visibility on the massive beast is literally impossible not to see, right?
    Not to mention that if you are using phantom and regeneration, the regen health tick effect is visible through the phantom cloak. Silence is still golden, but aura for lerks and higher is a must to avoid traps and target weak enemies.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Lol at all these phantom oni. You know the screen shakes when you move and the 5% visibility on the massive beast is literally impossible not to see, right?
    Not to mention that if you are using phantom and regeneration, the regen health tick effect is visible through the phantom cloak. Silence is still golden, but aura for lerks and higher is a must to avoid traps and target weak enemies.

    You CAN use phantom on lerk/fade. Aura is usually better (almost always for lerk, aura+spike is too much win) but sometimes attacking silently can be the bigger bonus.

    Onos though? Not even once. Like you said, the silence is nullified by the rattling sound effect, (Yes, SOUND effect, as in silence doesn't make an onos actually quiet) and even if the marines are blind enough not to see your outline while cloaked it'll be hard for them to miss shooting you by accident. About the only use for Phantom as Onos is to hide your numbers, it's impossible to tell one indistinct blur from two indistinct blurs.
  • FreekerFreeker France Join Date: 2013-10-28 Member: 188858Members, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
    I changed my mind a bit with the Onos after reading some of the replies.
    Switched from cara to regen. I have to say that it feels more comfortable when there is no gorge/comm support.
    I also tried Adren without upgrade, find it not valuable at all (difficult to close the gap with marine)

    And Aura is indeed great for the onos. Probably won't switch back to phantom.
  • MoFoMoFo Join Date: 2013-09-09 Member: 188047Members
    edited December 2013
    Roobubba wrote: »
    Lol at all these phantom oni. You know the screen shakes when you move and the 5% visibility on the massive beast is literally impossible not to see, right?
    Not to mention that if you are using phantom and regeneration, the regen health tick effect is visible through the phantom cloak. Silence is still golden, but aura for lerks and higher is a must to avoid traps and target weak enemies.


    Oh believe me I am well aware of every point you just made... However as someone who only plays in pubs I find it to be extremely effective. It doesn't silence you all the way, but it's certainly MUCH better than sounding like an avalanche that can be heard 3 rooms away. (Especially if you hold cntrl) As far as cloak, I have great success tucking into corners then jumping out on Marines when they show up... 9 times out of 10 they don't see me until it's too late, and even if they do they often panic into running away...

    Also, I never rely on cloak while Regen is healing me.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    aura is so OP, I really don't understand people using phantom at all, especially after early game troll phase. knowing where enemies are and their health is powerful as hell. I just go celerity aura Regen on anything. Cara maybe if im having a lot of trouble with skulking... but im ok withlosing my skulk, so...
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    amoral wrote: »
    aura is so OP, I really don't understand people using phantom at all, especially after early game troll phase. knowing where enemies are and their health is powerful as hell. I just go celerity aura Regen on anything. Cara maybe if im having a lot of trouble with skulking... but im ok withlosing my skulk, so...

    The way I see it for regen to be effective as a skulk you would have to be playing it like a non-disposable lifeform. Get in, get a couple hits and then get out again. Unfortunately with so little health you are liable to die before you even know you've taken damage so judging when to get out is pure guesswork. It also means you are spending more time (and risk of death) escaping than fighting.

    For me, when I engage as a skulk it's me or them, or more accurately it's how many of them I can take with me. I have no intention of escaping until they are all dead which doesn't happen frequently enough to warrant regen and would happen a lot less frequently without cara.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    edited December 2013
    Aura is overrated, it's pretty much wallhacks yeah, but you can determine numbers and location from sound, + the fact that flashlights shine thru walls now.
    Derp
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Aura is underated, it's pretty much wallhacks yeah, but you can determine numbers and location from sound, + the fact that flashlights shine thru walls now.

    You mean overrated? Because I don't think it's possible for it to be rated any higher.

  • A_PajanderA_Pajander Join Date: 2002-12-31 Member: 11695Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    amoral wrote: »
    Cara is a crutch, unless the marines have godly aim, having less health teaches you better habits. you won't always have the luxury of extra armor

    The problem with regen, at least for Fade, is that it's only good if the marines aren't very good shots or if it's an easy match and you don't ever really have to get into those tight spots. But if that's the case, then it doesn't really matter what you take, you were gonna win anyway. To be good enough to save you from those situations where you will die as a Fade, regeneration would have to be buffed so much it would probably be overpowered (like in some of those older builds).

    But yeah I guess it would be good for learning the Fade. :) If you're surviving your fights as a regen Fade you're already doing something right. Then you can switch to cara and play just as carefully against better marines.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    A_Pajander wrote: »
    amoral wrote: »
    Cara is a crutch, unless the marines have godly aim, having less health teaches you better habits. you won't always have the luxury of extra armor

    The problem with regen, at least for Fade, is that it's only good if the marines aren't very good shots or if it's an easy match and you don't ever really have to get into those tight spots. But if that's the case, then it doesn't really matter what you take, you were gonna win anyway. To be good enough to save you from those situations where you will die as a Fade, regeneration would have to be buffed so much it would probably be overpowered (like in some of those older builds).

    But yeah I guess it would be good for learning the Fade. :) If you're surviving your fights as a regen Fade you're already doing something right. Then you can switch to cara and play just as carefully against better marines.


    exactly, save Cara for when you really need it, but play Regen for practice because you won't always have the luxury of extra health, and it will help you train in more engagements. always run as if you were a Regen fade and you should die less as a Cara one.

    similarly, I think it was ayanomoose who said he always went celerity,this was pre 260, because big energy pool isn't guaranteed, and he treated celerity as a pure speed buff.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Generally:
    skulk: cara/celerity/phantom but sometimes aura
    gorge: cara/either (depends on the situation, really)/aura
    lerk: cara/celerity/aura - this is the only one that's pretty much set in stone and never changes for me
    fade: n/a cuz I never play fade cuz I suck :D
    onos: usually cara/adren/aura, although even if the game is late enough I'll rarely wait to have enough res for aura before going onos and either I'll die or the game will end or I'll forget to get it later and never end up having it

    That said this isn't really advice because no one should be taking advice from me 'cause I'm awful.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Comes to my attention that I haven't actually made a list:
    Skulk:
    Cara/Aura/Celerity, phantom rarely only if early game (shade first)
    Gorge:
    All upgrades valid (even regen!). Battle gorges are Regen/aura/celerity, bilerushers and healbots are cara/phantom/adren
    Lerk:
    Aura(it's first 'cause it's best)/regen/adren. Celerity if early game (pre upgrade) but adren usually as soon as they have shotties so I can hang back and spike. Rarely cara if I'm staying near heal bases and want to cropdust the shotties.
    Fade:
    What's a fade?
    Onos:
    Celerity, Regen, Aura. The only one that is absolutely set in stone never to vary even a little bit. Regen ticks big, and onos are exposed to fire during a long period while trying to run away. Celerity means running away faster, coupled with charge in short bursts, no celerity onos is a lumbering oaf. Aura because phantom is worthless for onos.
  • JekyllJekyll Oregon Join Date: 2013-11-20 Member: 189469Members, Reinforced - Silver
    edited December 2013
    Help me fill out this chart:

    Key:
    Lifeform
    Natural regeneration rate (abbreviated NR for natural regeneration)
    Additional armor granted by Carapace (abbreviated CA for carapace armor)

    Skulk
    NR: 1.5hp/tic
    CA: 20

    Gorge
    NR: 3hp/tic
    CA: 25

    Lerk
    NR: 3hp/tic
    CA: 15

    Fade
    NR: 5hp/tic
    CA: 40

    Onos:
    NR: 25hp/tic
    CA: 150

    Regeneration just doubles the amount of health that a life form regains per tic (each tic is roughly 2 seconds).

    Skulk: 52 seconds
    Gorge: 33 seconds
    Lerk: 20 seconds
    Fade: 32 seconds
    Onos: 24 seconds
  • cpt000cpt000 Join Date: 2013-08-28 Member: 187152Members
    In a conventional game, I go for celerity anytime. But in combat, I always choose phantom, then celerity.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    i would like to pleasanly point out something about the differences between aura and phantom. You only (in most situations) need one aura user. unless you're in a pub and nobody is working together (or, cheesus forbid, and organised game!). phantom helps cloak numbers. even multiple onii can't be distinguished if they are all 'silent'.
    This is where the greatest advantage of phantom lies. Cloaking of numbers.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    i would like to pleasanly point out something about the differences between aura and phantom. You only (in most situations) need one aura user. unless you're in a pub and nobody is working together (or, cheesus forbid, and organised game!). phantom helps cloak numbers. even multiple onii can't be distinguished if they are all 'silent'.
    This is where the greatest advantage of phantom lies. Cloaking of numbers.

    i disagree that only one player per team needs aura. the most important aspects of aura is knowing where exactly enemies are, to fine tune ambushes, and more importantly, knowing who to target.

    if you're hitting a 3 man push, dropping it to a 2 man push even if you die is pretty damn powerful as a skulk. And positional information is incredibly difficult to convey in a quick and precise manner verbally. you drop a 3 man to a 2 man, you've dropped their everything power by 1/3. build speed, damage, angles covered, everything.
  • JekyllJekyll Oregon Join Date: 2013-11-20 Member: 189469Members, Reinforced - Silver
    By my possibly faulty math, the following times represent the viability of regeneration for each life form. For each life form, I have calculated the amount of time they would need to remain below their maximum health for the additional health gained from regeneration to make up for the extra health they would have had with Carapace.

    Skulk: 52 seconds
    Gorge: 33 seconds
    Lerk: 20 seconds
    Fade: 32 seconds
    Onos: 24 seconds

    Unsurprisingly, regeneration seems least viable for skulks. However I was surprised to see that Onos is second, and that regeneration for him may actually be more viable than for the lerk because he is slower and therefore it takes him longer to return to a hive or crag for healing.

    However I think these numbers in general indicate that regeneration is a pretty terrible choice for nearly every life form. Its niche is small at best.
  • sotanahtsotanaht Join Date: 2013-01-12 Member: 179215Members
    Do your numbers account for armor regen ticks? Regen restores health first, and if health is maxed it restores armor by the same amount which means that the effect is doubled during that time. Of course if you are currently taking damage it will pretty much always be regenning health so maybe that doesn't matter much.

    24 seconds looks pretty good for onos. it's the slow damage you take while retreating that is most important to survive I think, and that can last 24 seconds by itself. Plus once you do make it to a hive you are back in the fight faster.

    Lerk and Gorge use regen when they are in a position where they might not be retreating to a hive/crag AT ALL. The idea for lerk is to hide behind enemy lines and heal to full before passing back through either to attack or completely retreat. For gorge regen is used when you can't afford energy for healspray, which pretty much means you are using celerity and combined is only good for the battle gorge poking around walls.
  • ZinkeyZinkey Join Date: 2013-06-25 Member: 185694Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester
    Jekyll wrote: »
    By my possibly faulty math, the following times represent the viability of regeneration for each life form. For each life form, I have calculated the amount of time they would need to remain below their maximum health for the additional health gained from regeneration to make up for the extra health they would have had with Carapace.

    Skulk: 52 seconds
    Gorge: 33 seconds
    Lerk: 20 seconds
    Fade: 32 seconds
    Onos: 24 seconds

    Unsurprisingly, regeneration seems least viable for skulks. However I was surprised to see that Onos is second, and that regeneration for him may actually be more viable than for the lerk because he is slower and therefore it takes him longer to return to a hive or crag for healing.

    However I think these numbers in general indicate that regeneration is a pretty terrible choice for nearly every life form. Its niche is small at best.

    Not quite sure I agree with these figures...

    Skulk for example, full cara is + 20 armor which is +40EHP against normal damage. Full regen is 6% of max HP/Armor / tick which on 1biomass is about 2.5 hp/armor /sec. So to make up that extra 40 EHP up is about 16 seconds. Not taking into account armor regens at the same rate as health but is worth double against normal damage. So when regenerating armor as a skulk you are getting 5 EHP/sec. And as this is based on max health pools it also scales slightly with biomass.

    That being said I may be misunderstanding the whole thing, I was generally under the impression that regen was pretty good all around but leaves you at risk of getting minced by someone with a good shot.
  • maD_maX_maD_maX_ Join Date: 2013-04-07 Member: 184678Members
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Aura is overrated, it's pretty much wallhacks yeah, but you can determine numbers and location from sound, + the fact that flashlights shine thru walls now.
    Derp

    While a good player can determine all this while hiding in a vent timing his ambush, but this takes a few seconds to determine... But with aura you can fly full speed as a lerk/fade/hopping skulk without worrying about the sneaky rine cutting you off..

    Like you said Good players can track players through walls... But other good players know, when to turn off flashlights, walk, and where to cut you off.
  • amoralamoral Join Date: 2013-01-03 Member: 177250Members
    maD_maX_ wrote: »
    AuroN2 wrote: »
    Aura is overrated, it's pretty much wallhacks yeah, but you can determine numbers and location from sound, + the fact that flashlights shine thru walls now.
    Derp

    While a good player can determine all this while hiding in a vent timing his ambush, but this takes a few seconds to determine... But with aura you can fly full speed as a lerk/fade/hopping skulk without worrying about the sneaky rine cutting you off..

    Like you said Good players can track players through walls... But other good players know, when to turn off flashlights, walk, and where to cut you off.

    exactly, it definitely helps when marines are actively trying to cut off your retreat and flanking. good luck with your positional awareness in the middle or directly after an engagement. plus phantom for lerk is uber redundant.
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