MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2014
Earlier today I noticed that I had flipped the entire occlusion geometry in the level outwards before publishing Alpha03 to the workshop, so I did a quick fix of that and republished(again). Other than that I have been working on Lockers most of the day as I had some ideas about how it should look. Still needs some more work on the lighting I think and the RT location is a bit boring on the details. And some textures need to be replaced. Here's what I've got so far
Be sure to join in on the playtest of the latest version tomorrow(thursday 27th) at 18:00 CET!
Always great to see a new map around here! Like this one, especially Automation Systems. Looks like you can have alot of fun in that room. Pump controls is a nice spot aswell. Like the idea behind Surface. Cool stuff. Transport Ways, Equipment Storage and Drill Site im not so sure on. It strikes me abit as corridors, corridors and yet more corridors.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Thanks for your comments Jones. At this stage I also feel that Transport and Storage are a lot like corridors. And it seems to me that marines can get to storage too fast and therefore it is too easy for them to take drill site even if it is the main alien hive. The map is a re-imagination of a map I did for ns1 that was never really played much. So a lot of the rooms and their feeling and purpose is already planned, it just takes time to get there.
My plan for the left side of the map, specially Transport, is to make it unique even if it is quite straight. I want it to be a lot taller than it is and with more opportunities for aliens to ambush marines. Storage obviously needs some work in the sense that marines can hold it too easy.
After todays playtest there are a few things that were very clear:
- Storage/Drill site/Transport needs some reworking to help aliens hold it a bit easier. Add vent to Drill site.
- Arc from Central path to pump control is overpowered. Must be fixed.
- Complete rebuild of Generators is needed!
- Add vent from mineral processing to transfer.
- MAYBE add vent from generators OR pump control to central path.
- Both the hive and the rt are very exposed from the level underneath in automation system.
My plan for Transport, short term, is to move the whole thing more left on the map, to shorten the line of sight from Storage down to the connection in to Drill Site. Block off the path that now goes directly from Loading Bay to Transport and add a corridor in to Security instead so marines need to pass by the vent that is there to get to Storage. The possibility for adding the two hallways, that make up Transport today, into one larger area is tempting at the moment. And I could see it working once fully detailed.
The ARC spot from Lounge to Production is also too overpowered. This is why I want to flip Production around to point east instead of west into the map. This will not affect travel times on the right side of the map.
As for Generators I want to rebuild the whole damn thing to make more sense in relation to both location name and alien game play.
I will also move Pump Control and Pumping Stations north to avoid the ARCing of pump control from central path. This means some rework of the western access point to Mineral Processing.
I want to do some more work on the layout of the middle room, Automation System, as it seems to be hard to get up to the upper level of it as a marine coming in from Security.
Here is some quick photoshopping I did to illustrate what I want to do. It has no names as I just used the minimap .tga file(which apparently doesn't have names on it.
Nothing there is final but this is the general idea at the moment.
Another thing about the playtest today is that I feel that the teams were heavily unbalanced in most of the rounds. And the fact that the whole thing is greybox mostly doesn't help aliens much. The things I've noted above were the obvious flaws and I will use the next two weeks to update the layout and add in more hiding spots and cover for aliens in general all over the map.
Thanks to everyone who played today, you were great! For now I have loads of things to work with and it can only get better!
I played this map yesterday for the first time. I think it's a pretty nice layout for the most parts. I really liked the space in the center TP, really nice elevations.
Timings felt OK though the marines seemed to get the aliens cornered pretty easily with not much room to wiggle themselves out. Maybe it was just the teams at that part.
Navigating in the top left TP felt kinda weird since you have to do a little extra turn around the big crate.
I really like the layout. There's a few confusing bits but nothing you cannot fix with landmarks and lighting.
Going off yesterdays game I feel the marine base was too hard to attack as alien. The fact its an uphill climb for aliens to get to the marine slide makes hit and run tactics a lot less viable since you cannot get as much speed through wall running or belly sliding. Personally I'd recommend flattening the map a bit more or at least the west side approaching marine starting area.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited February 2014
Thanks for comments guys! Did you take a look at the changes I have planned @Howser? I have been working a lot on it today.
Reworked both automation systems and central path, moved transport and storage slightly west, pump control and stations north, flipped production around, moved transfer a little bit west and started rebuilding generators.
Will continue tomorrow to add the connection from loading bay to security(took away the path from loading to transport).
I will definitely look into lowering surface so there isn't a climb toward the entrances, this is a very good idea so thank you for that!
I'll be posting an updated layout with a changelog as soon as I have it ready. After that it's on to start doing some detailing prototypes around the whole map.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
I'll be sure to let you know once the map has at least some detail in every room/corridor, IE. Beta phase, @bdbkush.
Changes to the layout are mostly complete, except a lot of the vents. I've been working on the new Generators locations since friday and it is fairly close to complete at the moment. The reason I have chosen to detail it is one of the assignments for a course in my studies is to deliver images of an environment and I agreed with my teachers that I would do a fully detailed room from my level project. So here's a teaser shot of Generators, still WIP, from the editor.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2014
Layout update almost complete. Only missing some vents and a few holes to cap here and there.
I also see, now that I reworked the path from Lounge/Transfer to Production that the whole room needs a redesign. But that is next in line after doing a real overhaul on Transport Halls and Storage.
EDIT: Colored the overview in green and red to illustrate which areas will have which kind of styling. Green means towards clean and the red means more towards gritty/dirty.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Ok so I have been spending the last week detailing 3 areas of the map that had some of the biggest issues for aliens during the playtest. These areas are Generators, Transport Halls and Storage. They are all now close to final, but a bit is lacking on the detail and possibly the lighting side. So far I am very happy with what I have achieved in such short time, but keep in mind that this is also what I spend mostly all my days doing as it is after all a uni project. Now I am done for today and want to show you guys that which I have been working on.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2014
I've been hard at work with Production the last days. I almost finished it last night but then realized that I was not happy with most of the ceiling and walls. So I started over with those and so far it is looking much better than what I had after finishing my work yesterday. Here's an editor shot which is of course heavy WIP(ignore any holes, they will be capped).
Any feedback on this and the previous screenshots is very welcome!
I also hope to have a new version out before Sunday but at the moment, since I have been spending so much time on Production, it looks like it won't be until next week. My goal is to have all tech points close to fully detailed and the rest of the map having a lot more geometrical features, textures and more variation in lighting to make it easier to navigate.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Thanks bdbkush! I think you will be waiting for quite a long time if you don't want to run maps with some grey areas.
Still going strong with this. Production(the room!) is almost finished, just missing some detail on a few walls in there now. Moved on to start work on Drill Site today, turns out it will be a cave like area!
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Drill Site close to finished. Missing some minor detail here and there that I want to do. It has to do with the power node and its connection to the tech point/resource node. As well as some of the support structure for the catwalks. But I think this is good enough for next version.
(It was hard to capture the room in 2 screenshots)
Next on the list is Mineral Processing. After that I will move on to capping all the new holes I've created around the map, add some random geometry cover where I see it's needed, some basic texturing just to get rid of most of the greybox and rebuilding deleted parts of occlusion geometry before releasing next version.
Automation System is still too important. Did you do anything to make it less powerful? If not, the map is going to be whoever controls Automation System wins the game.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2014
Thanks for your feedback Cyber, but I don't see you mention why you feel that the room is "still too important".
Automation System has been completely redesigned. And will get another overhaul before next version. The ledge has been completely removed and I have added stairs up from both Security and Central Path(instead of the separate route along the east side of the room to get up to tech point level) to make it easier, for example for Onos pushing there if marines have it. Marines are able to ARC it from Security but if aliens have bile bomb this can prove challenging. The room is also going to be larger in total than it was.
The games we played on the playtest I organized did not revolve around who has Automation System or not. In fact it was Storage, Central Path and Generators that were the most problematic areas(aside from everything being greybox). Locking down Generators as marines would lock down the entire east hand side of the map for example.
As a fix for the Central Path problem(ARC the Pump Control resource node) the room has been moved enough to make sure this doesn't happen. It will also get a vent to make it harder for marines to keep the location.
Next version will be number 4 in the line so I expect issues that needs to be fixed. But I have done my best so far to fix the things I saw myself in the playtest.
You did remake it, my mistake. I feel shame that I missed it.
The playtests I was involved in, the two at least, the Systems gave control over the rest of the map. With the remake, I would have to see. In fact, quite a lot got changed.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2014
No worries Cyber! I really don't expect people to pay that much attention to what I post here. Any response is a bonus for me
You are right though, I forgot that one alien game where Automation was taken early on. However I do feel that the teams were heavily imbalanced so I think that played a large part in it as well.
A lot got changed and hopefully for the better. I believe it will be a lot better on next version when there will be generally more things for aliens to hide on/behind!
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
Just coming in with a small update. Progress is mostly the same as before. Just a little tired so I've been redoing a lot of occlusion geometry and capping random holes in the map today. I really feel like I need to get the next version out as soon as possible. And that is the reason that I won't try to make everything texture(well maybe just something random that looks horrible) for all rooms. Automation System overhaul will have to wait as well. Mineral Processing is almost done but I currently don't have the energy to finish it for next release. I will leave some walls grey.
What I need to do for the version to be ready is fix some power node issues here and there, adjust location entities and just add random geometry for cover where there are long lines of sight still. I also need to add the vent from Drill Site to Pumping Stations, and from Mineral Processing to Transfer. Other than that the layout is complete.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2014
Ignore the last post! There was apparently something wrong with workshop so the map had not updated properly. But now it is up and running like it should(I hope!)
Changelog:
- Detailed Lockers.
- Flipped Production to point east on the map instead of west. To get rid of ARC spot from Lounge.
- Edited Lounge to Production corridor according to flip and made it shorter.
- Moved Storage, Transport Halls and Security westwards.
(shorter line of sight from Storage to Service)
- Blocked path from Loading Bay to Transport Halls.
- Added stairs from Security to Automation System so players move directly up to Tech Point level using that path.
- Moved Pump Control, Pumping Stations and Cyst Corridor slightly north.
(to remove ARC spot from Central Path to Pump Control)
- Moved Central Path slightly south and redesigned the location.
(to remove ARC spot from Central Path to Pump Control)
- Added path from Loading Bay to Transport Halls that passed through Security.
- Almost complete rebuild of Automation System to account for new ARC spots created by path from Loading Bay to Security
(moved tech point slightly east.)
- Moved Transfer slightly west to shorten travel time from Production to Generators.
(reduces line of sight from Production to Transfer)
- Moved Surface tech point lower to allow aliens to push easier(no more uphill).
- Fixed vent from Generators to Production.
- Moved Lounge a tiny bit west and resized the room.
- Moved and fixed path from Lounge to Production.
- Fixed vent from Lockers to Production(not in the room, but in the entering corridor).
- Moved vent entrance from Automation System to System Access.
- Fixed path from Upper Pumping Station to Mineral Processing to account from north movement of Pumping Stations.
(Mineral now has two west wall entrances spawning out of the same corridor.)
- Completely redesigned and detailed Generators.
- Completely redesigned and detailed Transport Halls.
- Detailed Storage.
- Removed Service location and power node. Combined half/half of it with Storage/Drill Site.
- Completely redesigned and detailed Production(still WIP).
- Detailed Drill Site.
- Added vent from Drill Site to Pumping Stations.
- Completely redesigned and detailed Mineral Processing(still WIP).
- Added vent from Mineral Processing to Transfer.
- Added vent from Generators to Central Path.
- Added more cover for aliens around the map, may still not be enough.
- Added arrow decals to Transfer when coming from Production to avoid people running into the dead end
- Fixed some textures not scaling/tiling correctly in Transfer.
Screenshots:
Transfer(with decals):
Generators:
Mineral Processing(Still WIP):
Drill Site:
Storage:
Transport Halls:
Lockers:
Production(Still WIP):
Alpha04 Layout:
I'll be trying to get some play tests going on my own but it would be nice to have it tested during next Sunday's play test session as well. Enjoy!
Edit: Here's a blog post I wrote today about the version release and some thoughts behind the changes that were made if anyone wants to read it. It also contains a few more screenshots.
You keep lying to me bro. Automation system is too important. So close and Marine friendly they will always have it. Then they can put pressure onto Pump Control/Generators. Pump Control is not as bad since there is another cyst path, but once they put pressure onto Generators, Production is Marines.
This map is so Marine friendly it hurts. Loading Bay and Lockers is super easy for Marine res to hold. Aliens get Pump Control and Generators, both destroyed by Automation System.
The path to Mineral Processing to Generators has always been uphill for Aliens and piss hard to attack. Small path with no real side paths, so Marines just camp and destroy Generators.
All that needs to be done to solve this is give Mineral to Generators not a horrible path, and make Automation System a natural middle location, instead of a natural Marine base.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
edited March 2014
Not a great way to start your feedback by calling me a liar. When did I ever lie to you? I told you that Automation System had been redesigned, and it has. Other than that you are stating valid points and I appreciate it. Not at all trying to go into defensive mode here, just explaining my own observations from my own testing.
Calling the path from Mineral Processing to Generators uphill I think is a bit drastic as it barely rises and I have no problem maintaining speed through it going from Mineral Processing.
I have been working very hard on the timing for Automation System, from both alien starting positions(Drill Site/Mineral Processing) and for marines from Surface. Both ways(through Lockers or Loading Bay/Security) takes About 20 seconds for marines to sprint with all equipment and the axe up. For aliens it takes about 20 seconds(For a wall-jumping skulk) from Drill Site going either through Pump Control/Central Path or Storage/Transport/vent to Security and a little less than 20 seconds(17-18 or so) going from Mineral Processing through Generators/Central Path. I want to ask though, is this a timing related issue with Automation, or just the fact that the room is marine friendly due to being basically grey-box? Or could it be an issue with aliens not working and making pushes/defenses together? There are a lot of things to consider.
I am not sure if the timing for the middle tech point should be almost the same for both teams. I will do some tests on official maps that are also included in ENSL competitive play and see what I find out. Either way I think this has a lot to do with the fact that Automation System is barely detailed and not so much that it is too close to marines compared to aliens. Maybe a little bit closer to aliens and actually detailing the room is going to help a lot.
Another thing I should mention is that I was walking around the map with a friend on friday and he stated that it was such a shame that Production had the entrances so close to each other. He thought the room was such a nice fighting space for both teams and that with the entrances so close it would barely be used because people would just run directly through. And I realized that this was probably true. What my point is with this is that I spent a lot of time thinking about the space in terms of both teams having some sort of equal space to fight in, so I think I should actually re-texture it, switch out some of the detailing and move the whole location to middle and make it into Automation System instead of Production.
As far as Generators goes, it was extremely horrible in the last version. What I did to try to fix this was redesign and detail the room, give aliens some more height and geometry to work with as well as the ventilation from Mineral Processing to Transfer to make it easier for them to defend. The ventilation entrances towards Production and Central Path should also help the aliens a lot in defending/attacking the room. It's also very natural for grey-boxes(path from Generators to Mineral Processing to take your example) to be very marine friendly and this is something I will work on for the next version(at least in some areas if not all) by adding in more geometry for aliens to work with as a start in the actual detailing process of the whole map.
The reason that only tech points and some areas have been detailed so much is that I couldn't decide on a room to hand in for one of my uni assignments.
I will be conducting some 6vs6 testing with even teams during the coming week(hopefully!) and see what I figure out then as well. However I want to thank you for your observations and feedback because anything helps!
From what I remember from yesterday, Automaton System was too open. Once marines were in there, aliens couldn't really attack because of LoS. I remember once when I attacked it, I ran into 3 marines and frantically searched for cover, but didn't find any. So, adding cover would probably help to make the room more alien friendly.
Master, when I said you be lying, I didn't mean it as aggressive as I sounded. In fact, it wasn't you. Someone said Automation System is fine but that is not the case.
The issue with Automation System is more that it is just ungodly open and shooting fest for Marines like Ford said. Most mid points of the map tend to have a lot of room for the Aliens to get around. Summit has pillars, a tunnel, some random cliff thing, and whatnot. Biodome has a massively large area yes, but it is very easy to circle around the entire thing.
Automation System has nothing that matters. Aliens only have one real fast way to attack from Central Path. Going around to Security is nice, but it takes too much effort for how important the place is. Then like I said before. Central Path then allows for easy access into Generators that will have it cysts forever cut.
Side note, please enable another path from Mineral to Generator. The biggest issue is that it is so easy to cut off cyst once Marines have Central Path, that Production just fell. The tunnel from Mineral to Transfer is also very unfriendly. To get to the tunnel requires one going around the Mineral floor, and that is very weird. Then the tunnel path is a straight vertical so it is a pain for Gorges.
MasterGgmfbstJoin Date: 2003-08-24Member: 20169Members, Squad Five Blue
That's ok Cyber, I just wanted to state it as an unnecessary way to start a comment. No hard feelings!:)
The whole center of the map is getting a serious overhaul. I have already taken the room that was Production and moved it to the center, taking the form of Automation System. Instead of having a way from Central Path to Pump Control, that route will go directly from Auto, but on the lefthand side of it that will also spring out into the lower part of Transport Halls(northern part of it on the map). Hard to explain everything in words, so will try to bring a mockup layout of the plan tomorrow! Stay tuned for it and please give me your thoughts on it asap!
I will move the vent entrance in Mineral to the ceiling instead of under the floor as well.
Gen already has 3 entry points and I really don't want it to have another, but expect a redesign of the route from Mineral to Gen.
Comments
Be sure to join in on the playtest of the latest version tomorrow(thursday 27th) at 18:00 CET!
My plan for the left side of the map, specially Transport, is to make it unique even if it is quite straight. I want it to be a lot taller than it is and with more opportunities for aliens to ambush marines. Storage obviously needs some work in the sense that marines can hold it too easy.
After todays playtest there are a few things that were very clear:
My plan for Transport, short term, is to move the whole thing more left on the map, to shorten the line of sight from Storage down to the connection in to Drill Site. Block off the path that now goes directly from Loading Bay to Transport and add a corridor in to Security instead so marines need to pass by the vent that is there to get to Storage. The possibility for adding the two hallways, that make up Transport today, into one larger area is tempting at the moment. And I could see it working once fully detailed.
The ARC spot from Lounge to Production is also too overpowered. This is why I want to flip Production around to point east instead of west into the map. This will not affect travel times on the right side of the map.
As for Generators I want to rebuild the whole damn thing to make more sense in relation to both location name and alien game play.
I will also move Pump Control and Pumping Stations north to avoid the ARCing of pump control from central path. This means some rework of the western access point to Mineral Processing.
I want to do some more work on the layout of the middle room, Automation System, as it seems to be hard to get up to the upper level of it as a marine coming in from Security.
Here is some quick photoshopping I did to illustrate what I want to do. It has no names as I just used the minimap .tga file(which apparently doesn't have names on it.
Nothing there is final but this is the general idea at the moment.
Another thing about the playtest today is that I feel that the teams were heavily unbalanced in most of the rounds. And the fact that the whole thing is greybox mostly doesn't help aliens much. The things I've noted above were the obvious flaws and I will use the next two weeks to update the layout and add in more hiding spots and cover for aliens in general all over the map.
Thanks to everyone who played today, you were great! For now I have loads of things to work with and it can only get better!
Timings felt OK though the marines seemed to get the aliens cornered pretty easily with not much room to wiggle themselves out. Maybe it was just the teams at that part.
Navigating in the top left TP felt kinda weird since you have to do a little extra turn around the big crate.
Going off yesterdays game I feel the marine base was too hard to attack as alien. The fact its an uphill climb for aliens to get to the marine slide makes hit and run tactics a lot less viable since you cannot get as much speed through wall running or belly sliding. Personally I'd recommend flattening the map a bit more or at least the west side approaching marine starting area.
Reworked both automation systems and central path, moved transport and storage slightly west, pump control and stations north, flipped production around, moved transfer a little bit west and started rebuilding generators.
Will continue tomorrow to add the connection from loading bay to security(took away the path from loading to transport).
I will definitely look into lowering surface so there isn't a climb toward the entrances, this is a very good idea so thank you for that!
I'll be posting an updated layout with a changelog as soon as I have it ready. After that it's on to start doing some detailing prototypes around the whole map.
Changes to the layout are mostly complete, except a lot of the vents. I've been working on the new Generators locations since friday and it is fairly close to complete at the moment. The reason I have chosen to detail it is one of the assignments for a course in my studies is to deliver images of an environment and I agreed with my teachers that I would do a fully detailed room from my level project. So here's a teaser shot of Generators, still WIP, from the editor.
I also see, now that I reworked the path from Lounge/Transfer to Production that the whole room needs a redesign. But that is next in line after doing a real overhaul on Transport Halls and Storage.
EDIT: Colored the overview in green and red to illustrate which areas will have which kind of styling. Green means towards clean and the red means more towards gritty/dirty.
Just spent around 30 min on that pillar/trim thing.
Transport Halls:
Storage:
Any feedback on this and the previous screenshots is very welcome!
I also hope to have a new version out before Sunday but at the moment, since I have been spending so much time on Production, it looks like it won't be until next week. My goal is to have all tech points close to fully detailed and the rest of the map having a lot more geometrical features, textures and more variation in lighting to make it easier to navigate.
Still going strong with this. Production(the room!) is almost finished, just missing some detail on a few walls in there now. Moved on to start work on Drill Site today, turns out it will be a cave like area!
Next on the list is Mineral Processing. After that I will move on to capping all the new holes I've created around the map, add some random geometry cover where I see it's needed, some basic texturing just to get rid of most of the greybox and rebuilding deleted parts of occlusion geometry before releasing next version.
Automation System has been completely redesigned. And will get another overhaul before next version. The ledge has been completely removed and I have added stairs up from both Security and Central Path(instead of the separate route along the east side of the room to get up to tech point level) to make it easier, for example for Onos pushing there if marines have it. Marines are able to ARC it from Security but if aliens have bile bomb this can prove challenging. The room is also going to be larger in total than it was.
The games we played on the playtest I organized did not revolve around who has Automation System or not. In fact it was Storage, Central Path and Generators that were the most problematic areas(aside from everything being greybox). Locking down Generators as marines would lock down the entire east hand side of the map for example.
As a fix for the Central Path problem(ARC the Pump Control resource node) the room has been moved enough to make sure this doesn't happen. It will also get a vent to make it harder for marines to keep the location.
Next version will be number 4 in the line so I expect issues that needs to be fixed. But I have done my best so far to fix the things I saw myself in the playtest.
The playtests I was involved in, the two at least, the Systems gave control over the rest of the map. With the remake, I would have to see. In fact, quite a lot got changed.
You are right though, I forgot that one alien game where Automation was taken early on. However I do feel that the teams were heavily imbalanced so I think that played a large part in it as well.
A lot got changed and hopefully for the better. I believe it will be a lot better on next version when there will be generally more things for aliens to hide on/behind!
What I need to do for the version to be ready is fix some power node issues here and there, adjust location entities and just add random geometry for cover where there are long lines of sight still. I also need to add the vent from Drill Site to Pumping Stations, and from Mineral Processing to Transfer. Other than that the layout is complete.
I will be adding some screens and a changelog to this post asap, but right now I need to play an ENSL match!
Changelog:
- Flipped Production to point east on the map instead of west. To get rid of ARC spot from Lounge.
- Edited Lounge to Production corridor according to flip and made it shorter.
- Moved Storage, Transport Halls and Security westwards.
(shorter line of sight from Storage to Service)
- Blocked path from Loading Bay to Transport Halls.
- Added stairs from Security to Automation System so players move directly up to Tech Point level using that path.
- Moved Pump Control, Pumping Stations and Cyst Corridor slightly north.
(to remove ARC spot from Central Path to Pump Control)
- Moved Central Path slightly south and redesigned the location.
(to remove ARC spot from Central Path to Pump Control)
- Added path from Loading Bay to Transport Halls that passed through Security.
- Almost complete rebuild of Automation System to account for new ARC spots created by path from Loading Bay to Security
(moved tech point slightly east.)
- Moved Transfer slightly west to shorten travel time from Production to Generators.
(reduces line of sight from Production to Transfer)
- Moved Surface tech point lower to allow aliens to push easier(no more uphill).
- Fixed vent from Generators to Production.
- Moved Lounge a tiny bit west and resized the room.
- Moved and fixed path from Lounge to Production.
- Fixed vent from Lockers to Production(not in the room, but in the entering corridor).
- Moved vent entrance from Automation System to System Access.
- Fixed path from Upper Pumping Station to Mineral Processing to account from north movement of Pumping Stations.
(Mineral now has two west wall entrances spawning out of the same corridor.)
- Completely redesigned and detailed Generators.
- Completely redesigned and detailed Transport Halls.
- Detailed Storage.
- Removed Service location and power node. Combined half/half of it with Storage/Drill Site.
- Completely redesigned and detailed Production(still WIP).
- Detailed Drill Site.
- Added vent from Drill Site to Pumping Stations.
- Completely redesigned and detailed Mineral Processing(still WIP).
- Added vent from Mineral Processing to Transfer.
- Added vent from Generators to Central Path.
- Added more cover for aliens around the map, may still not be enough.
- Added arrow decals to Transfer when coming from Production to avoid people running into the dead end
- Fixed some textures not scaling/tiling correctly in Transfer.
Screenshots:
Generators:
Mineral Processing(Still WIP):
Drill Site:
Storage:
Transport Halls:
Lockers:
Production(Still WIP):
Alpha04 Layout:
I'll be trying to get some play tests going on my own but it would be nice to have it tested during next Sunday's play test session as well. Enjoy!
Edit: Here's a blog post I wrote today about the version release and some thoughts behind the changes that were made if anyone wants to read it. It also contains a few more screenshots.
READ BLOG HERE
This map is so Marine friendly it hurts. Loading Bay and Lockers is super easy for Marine res to hold. Aliens get Pump Control and Generators, both destroyed by Automation System.
The path to Mineral Processing to Generators has always been uphill for Aliens and piss hard to attack. Small path with no real side paths, so Marines just camp and destroy Generators.
All that needs to be done to solve this is give Mineral to Generators not a horrible path, and make Automation System a natural middle location, instead of a natural Marine base.
Calling the path from Mineral Processing to Generators uphill I think is a bit drastic as it barely rises and I have no problem maintaining speed through it going from Mineral Processing.
I have been working very hard on the timing for Automation System, from both alien starting positions(Drill Site/Mineral Processing) and for marines from Surface. Both ways(through Lockers or Loading Bay/Security) takes About 20 seconds for marines to sprint with all equipment and the axe up. For aliens it takes about 20 seconds(For a wall-jumping skulk) from Drill Site going either through Pump Control/Central Path or Storage/Transport/vent to Security and a little less than 20 seconds(17-18 or so) going from Mineral Processing through Generators/Central Path. I want to ask though, is this a timing related issue with Automation, or just the fact that the room is marine friendly due to being basically grey-box? Or could it be an issue with aliens not working and making pushes/defenses together? There are a lot of things to consider.
I am not sure if the timing for the middle tech point should be almost the same for both teams. I will do some tests on official maps that are also included in ENSL competitive play and see what I find out. Either way I think this has a lot to do with the fact that Automation System is barely detailed and not so much that it is too close to marines compared to aliens. Maybe a little bit closer to aliens and actually detailing the room is going to help a lot.
Another thing I should mention is that I was walking around the map with a friend on friday and he stated that it was such a shame that Production had the entrances so close to each other. He thought the room was such a nice fighting space for both teams and that with the entrances so close it would barely be used because people would just run directly through. And I realized that this was probably true. What my point is with this is that I spent a lot of time thinking about the space in terms of both teams having some sort of equal space to fight in, so I think I should actually re-texture it, switch out some of the detailing and move the whole location to middle and make it into Automation System instead of Production.
As far as Generators goes, it was extremely horrible in the last version. What I did to try to fix this was redesign and detail the room, give aliens some more height and geometry to work with as well as the ventilation from Mineral Processing to Transfer to make it easier for them to defend. The ventilation entrances towards Production and Central Path should also help the aliens a lot in defending/attacking the room. It's also very natural for grey-boxes(path from Generators to Mineral Processing to take your example) to be very marine friendly and this is something I will work on for the next version(at least in some areas if not all) by adding in more geometry for aliens to work with as a start in the actual detailing process of the whole map.
The reason that only tech points and some areas have been detailed so much is that I couldn't decide on a room to hand in for one of my uni assignments.
I will be conducting some 6vs6 testing with even teams during the coming week(hopefully!) and see what I figure out then as well. However I want to thank you for your observations and feedback because anything helps!
The issue with Automation System is more that it is just ungodly open and shooting fest for Marines like Ford said. Most mid points of the map tend to have a lot of room for the Aliens to get around. Summit has pillars, a tunnel, some random cliff thing, and whatnot. Biodome has a massively large area yes, but it is very easy to circle around the entire thing.
Automation System has nothing that matters. Aliens only have one real fast way to attack from Central Path. Going around to Security is nice, but it takes too much effort for how important the place is. Then like I said before. Central Path then allows for easy access into Generators that will have it cysts forever cut.
Side note, please enable another path from Mineral to Generator. The biggest issue is that it is so easy to cut off cyst once Marines have Central Path, that Production just fell. The tunnel from Mineral to Transfer is also very unfriendly. To get to the tunnel requires one going around the Mineral floor, and that is very weird. Then the tunnel path is a straight vertical so it is a pain for Gorges.
The whole center of the map is getting a serious overhaul. I have already taken the room that was Production and moved it to the center, taking the form of Automation System. Instead of having a way from Central Path to Pump Control, that route will go directly from Auto, but on the lefthand side of it that will also spring out into the lower part of Transport Halls(northern part of it on the map). Hard to explain everything in words, so will try to bring a mockup layout of the plan tomorrow! Stay tuned for it and please give me your thoughts on it asap!
I will move the vent entrance in Mineral to the ceiling instead of under the floor as well.
Gen already has 3 entry points and I really don't want it to have another, but expect a redesign of the route from Mineral to Gen.
Ignore vents and the fact that there is no room for production on the right side yet! Comments and thoughts on this would be great!