Sometimes i think to myself, This is not NS1 and the same factors do not work with the maps for NS2. Be fucking creative and stop being ns1 followers and think or something new. moreso, give australians (mf & baka & Grissi) the rights to edit this game and it would be perfect any one else is a fucking idiot & should not be listened to & i'm sorry but titus(rantologoy) should not be listened to.
Honestly, have these balance tester think that maybe the maps are the issue. You're trying to balance the game around maps that don't work?
Alot of oldschool ns1 vets from aus have turned there back on this game.
I'm surprised any of these testers have not asked for any australian input, From all the suggestion i've seen a few high profile players in australia have the best solutions to this game. While you think we are unable to compete on a international standard. I can tell you right now given a chance to lan on the same ping i would be surprised if we didn't come out on top.
If you actually think that these people can have a positive impact on balance, then please encourage them to give their feedback on the mod. The people working on the mod are extremely receptive to feedback and ideas, but those ideas have to work within the current system. Things like "remove alien commander and exosuits" are not good suggestions -- they're too radical. The point of the mod is to keep the competitive game as similar to the vanilla game as possible while improving fun and balance.
Everyone has been asked for input. Australians have not been excluded. There is a thread about the balance mod on both these public UWE forums and the ensl forums. Everyone has had the opportunity to suggest ideas and criticize changes both before and after each iteration is created.
ZeframJoin Date: 2004-05-11Member: 28611Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts, Retired Community Developer
I write this post as an NSL admin, but mostly a forum mod. Keep the personal attacks and conversations to yourselves. Really don't care for the side conversations, gossip, and slander of one another. Keep the conversations on topic and constructive.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
now the fade stuff died down, can someone please explain to me why you plan to swap gorge tunnel entrance replacements? *points to earlier post disagreeing*
now the fade stuff died down, can someone please explain to me why you plan to swap gorge tunnel entrance replacements? *points to earlier post disagreeing*
You can choose which tunnel entrance to replace now, there is no order. They are separate "structures" in the gorge build menu- drop tunnel entrance, and drop tunnel exit.
and makes climbing things with low jetpack fuel (like the boxes in Platform on Biodome) very cumbersome, since you have to either wait for enough fuel to fly to your destination or waste fuel so you can make each jump.
Fuel management is real.
A better response would include your opinion on why eliminating jumping when wearing a jetpack that's not out of fuel is good game design and an improvement to the game. You seem to be approaching these changes as though the old behavior needs to be justified and the new behavior is the default, which is backward. The downsides of these changes need to be carefully considered and that should be much of what this thread is about.
and makes climbing things with low jetpack fuel (like the boxes in Platform on Biodome) very cumbersome, since you have to either wait for enough fuel to fly to your destination or waste fuel so you can make each jump.
Fuel management is real.
At least in my eyes, part of fuel management is being able to say "Hey, I can normal jump up these boxes, lemme do that instead of wasting JP fuel" and being able to do so. With the comp mod changes to jetpacks, specifically the method of activation (Was it this way originally? TBH I can't remember, too many patches ago.) it just seems really counter-intuitive to not have that option to just plain jump onto small ledges you could ordinarily get to (thinking of the 2' high step in Organ on Jambi, because honestly, who takes the stairs?) without using the JP in some form now. I'm fine with the reduced fuel and all that jazz, just not sure if the increased responsiveness is an equal trade for your marine forgetting how to jump and thus making navigating the map more obnoxious (and thus less responsive in a different aspect) when you don't actually need/want the JP's abilities yet.
Aaand shadowposted by Fisk. How dare you!!11oneeleventy
In another point, I fail to see the use of the gorge tunnel change in regards to which tunnel gets nuked first. I thought about it, and nope. Cant see it.
Atm in live you either go as a skulk to a high risk area, clean it up with a pack, go gorge, spit out a tunnel and hike back.
In a less risky situation you make your first tunnel before you gorge hike to a medium risk 2nd spot.
In example 1 you probably would not want to change any tunnel entrance before a tunnel entrance dies. You Didnt invest the whole teams effort just to nuke it right away. So which tunnel gets replaced first is not remotely a problem.
In example 2 you still keep your 'more risky' non hive tunnel while you replace the very safe hive entrance. (to swap it to another hive for example) Removing the riskier side from remote would not be needed in most cases as it would either get shot down regardless. Gorge tunnels shouldnt be placed on a whim.
If the change on tunnel entrances goes live, your 'risky' tunnel entrance will most likely be replaced first. Which is just the one you dont want to replace given the effort it took to put up.
Sure you can argue you want to replace that tunnel entrance and move it to somewhere else but that only displays e lack of insight on your tunnel placement early on.
I don't think you've kept up with the changes to the mod. Gorge tunnels are now separated into two different tunnels. You have a button for 'entrance' and one for 'exit'. The 'entrance' tunnel is green on your map. This allows for gorges to have absolute control about which tunnel to replace.
Sometimes i think to myself, This is not NS1 and the same factors do not work with the maps for NS2. Be fucking creative and stop being ns1 followers and think or something new. moreso, give australians (mf & baka & Grissi) the rights to edit this game and it would be perfect any one else is a fucking idiot & should not be listened to & i'm sorry but titus(rantologoy) should not be listened to.
Every single person that plays NS2 has been asked for feedback via this thread and the one on the NSL site. Not only this, but there's been a thread on the ausns2.org forums linking to the changes and asking for feedback anywhere.
Not only this, but you commented saying that "best changes & direction this game has had in a long way". Were you just drunk when you responded here?
Anyone that has ANY opinion about the balance mod should feel free to post here in a constructive manner. This means backing up your comment of "nezza shouldn't call the changes stupid" with a reason like "because nezza posted somewhere else that he likes all the changes".
Honestly, have these balance tester think that maybe the maps are the issue. You're trying to balance the game around maps that don't work?
I have considered this. I don't think this is the case. I think it's more of the forced dual resource systems with both teams having Pres and Tres. But this isn't something that we can fix without making an entirely new game. If you have opinions about map balance, feel free to post them somewhere and maybe something will get done. Bitching and whining won't fix anything.
The double jump to jetpack/jumping without fuel was a change post NS2 release IIRC, I believe it was actually in reinforced. There are several problems with it, one being that it adds a significant delay to the initial takeoff of the jetpack, something which really cannot be resolved in a way which most people would like. I am of the belief that if you manage your jetpack fuel well, you should never have trouble jumping up small boxes or ledges, the jetpack should be easily controllable and allow you to do that. If you run the jetpack out of fuel, well thats honestly a mistake by the player - its like a fade without energy, its something that should generally get you killed if it happens in combat. Should people really be so concerned about that specific portion of the change, We can always add back in the ability to jump when out of jetpack fuel.
Some of these changes may make play harder at lower skill levels, but this is something that is actually needed within NS2. There are certain lifeforms and weapons which scale wildly with skill, leaving lower div gameplay a balance paradox at times.
Dragon: Currently, jumping is possible with the jetpack when out of fuel, unless this has changed since yesterday. The fade comparison doesn't seem particularly apt because fades are allowed to walk regardless of how much energy they have. A marine buying a jetpack loses one form of mobility some of the time, which is a condition that feels very sloppy and makes certain kinds of movement difficult. The worst part is that a marine is most penalized when his fuel is low but not out, because he doesn't have enough fuel to fly anywhere and also too much fuel to be allowed to jump.
I don't believe that jumping and jetpack use are as mutually exclusive as they've seemed in every iteration of the jetpack so far. Two possibilities I can think of that should work:
1. Pressing the jump button could activate both a jump and the jetpack. Tapping the button for a jump would use minimal fuel and you'd get your jump regardless of the amount of fuel you have. This would definitely work in vents.
2. Pressing the jump button while on the ground would trigger a jump, with the jetpack activating if the button is held or is pressed while not on the ground. This should also work in vents because even if the marine lands on the ground again before the jetpack activates, holding the button should still activate it. The hold delay for the jetpack would need to be tuned so it feels right.
If those aren't acceptable, then the current behavior could be made less bad by allowing jump when the jetpack has so little fuel that jumping is actually better. As soon as it has more fuel, the jump key would activate the jetpack, instead. What 'mode' it's in could be indicated with color on the fuel bar. I don't like this solution, but it's certainly better than nothing.
The fade comparison doesn't seem particularly apt because fades are allowed to walk regardless of how much energy they have.
Marines can walk, regardless of how much jetpack fuel they have...
EDIT: Dragon is saying that energy is to fade movement as fuel is to jetpack movement. You can't blink without managing your energy, and you can't jet without managing your fuel. If you choose to waste your fuel to climb on top of a box that gets you onto a bigger platform, rather than just flying up (or walking?) to the platform itself, then that's on you.
Fades rely on walking when their energy runs out, like marines apparently rely on jumping when their fuel runs out. Thanks for contributing.
EDIT: To reply to your edit, this is about being allowed to jump. Fades have to manage energy to blink. Marines have to manage fuel to fly. However, fades can move without blink regardless of how much energy they have, but marines' jumping is tied to how much fuel they have. Trying to ignore this and phrase the argument as being about how someone chose to spend their fuel is not useful.
I don't really think the loss of the jump when buying a jetpack is important. I also don't see what would be lost by reimplementing a jump as long as the jet can feel smooth. The problem with vanilla jets is the jump -> jet is not set up properly, so you get a very slow feeling takeoff and you sometimes cannot jet in vents. I think the jets should work in vents and I think the initial takeoff should feel smooth. If that can be maintained with jumping added, I don't see why not to do that.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2014
Suggestion:
I think Babblers just need some very very minor adjustments: They need more minimum force on their jump (the babbler has two variables that affect its jump force, minimum and maximum, based on its distance to its target). They also should jump lower.
From my testing, they can actually damage marines that are at maximum jump range. Ironically, Babbler become crippled when they try to jump at marines that are next to them. It's quite hilarious to watch Babblers repeatedly jump over your head, and miss when you stand still and hold the crouch key.
I honestly don't think the change that is proposed will negatively impact dodging gameplay at all. It will be an extremely rare occurrence to be wanting to jump somewhere but you don't want to use/have fuel.. the jetpack should get you there quicker and more effectively.. just manage your fuel honestly.. I don't know of any area in NS2 where I can jump that I would also use a ton of fuel getting to. It seems so rare that this issue would even be something to think about.
That said.. I agree that if possible the most technically smooth way of implementing the jetpack should be used so that jumping is still smooth and usable as well.
Hello all, thank you for those that showed up to the balance meeting and gave feedback. We've reviewed the state of the mod and made a few adjustments, the changelog can be found in the document and I will post it here as well (reasoning can be found in the doc):
Changes:
-Increase cooldown on Hallucination from 3 → 5 seconds
-Split Phantom back into 2 separate upgrades, Silence and Cloak. (shade hive will have 3 upgrades)
-Transfer more Phasegate eHP into armor. From 2000hp550ap → 1500hp800ap
-Reduce Onos Gore energy cost from 13 → 10, and Charge energy cost from 38 → 30
-Increase Metabolize tres cost from 10 → 15. Increase Improved Metabolize tres cost from 15 → 20, Switch normal Metabolize biomass requirement with Charge (move Charge to biomass 2, Metabolize to biomass 3)
Fixes:
-Advanced Metabolize now requires Metabolize to be researched before you can research it.
-Added the ability to jump back to the jetpack- it's not double jump, and jumping still consumes fuel, but you should always be able to jump regardless of current fuel levels
-Sent whips to whip-bootcamp to improve their aim and reliability (should no longer bug out constantly when a marine is clearly in their melee range)
With that, THE BIG(ish)PATCH will be going into the live competitive mod on Monday, 4/21. As always we are always accepting feedback and keeping an eye on things.
(as always huge thank you to Dragon for coding everything!)
The new jetpack feels fantastic to use - definitely the best of any so far. However, I'm a little worried that it encourages hops, which you can use to move quickly throughout the map with effectively no fuel loss because you regain most of the spent fuel by the time you hit the ground. If you run out of fuel in the air while dodging something, the fuel you regain by the time you land will also make you able to quickly dodge again with a hop. I'm curious to hear what others think about this.
Well, "hops" or using it as a pogo stick would be the way I would recommend using it. That's just efficient use of the energy in general. Get the most for your fuel but still get increased speed.
Spamming it and just flying around for extended periods of time is not the most efficient way of using it and in those scenarios you will likely die.
If you run out of fuel mid air and have to land but then are able to infinitely dodge after that with small hops it might need to be looked at but I haven't really seen jetpacks in a real game yet so I'm going to hold my judgement.
EDIT:
After testing it myself you really only get one small jet jump after you run out and then you don't regain fast enough to continue using small jet jumps to any degree of usefulness.
So I think it was worth looking at but currently fine "as is" personally.
I hope Advanced Metabolize + Regen will be addressed. Fades gain way too much HP from those abilities right now making it very hard to pinch a fade or even kill a fade in an extended fight. It's to the point where a hurt Fade never has to go to a hive once they have these abilities, seems a bit OP. Honestly if you want to make regen viable for Fade, I can't see how you can have Advanced Metabolize as an ability. I can't imagine it's possible to balance both of these abilities to make them acceptable by themselves and not broken when used together, I would suggest scrapping Advanced Metabolize and allow regen to stay a viable Fade upgrade as there's a legitimate trade-off between it an Cara right now if you are never going to get Advanced Metabolize.
Also Onos feels completely useless until he has Celerity and/or Charge and even then he probably needs Umbra support to not flash to 3 marines even with support. As is, it feels like a complete waste of 55 pres. At least make Onos 2 hit a1 marines again by making the damage 95, that way you don't 1 shot armorless marines, but you still 2 hit a1 marines.
The effective HP of an armor 1 marine is 200 (100 + 50*2), so without changing the way onos damage affects armor or changing the amount of armor at armor 1, I'm pretty sure you can't make armorless and armor 1 marines both take 2 hits.
Fades rely on walking when their energy runs out, like marines apparently rely on jumping when their fuel runs out. Thanks for contributing.
EDIT: To reply to your edit, this is about being allowed to jump. Fades have to manage energy to blink. Marines have to manage fuel to fly. However, fades can move without blink regardless of how much energy they have, but marines' jumping is tied to how much fuel they have. Trying to ignore this and phrase the argument as being about how someone chose to spend their fuel is not useful.
To fix we should add 2 second cooldown on marines being able to walk post jetpack use.
The metabolize and regeneration combination comes up at biomass 5 on 2 hives.
If you don't have weapons2+ by then you deserve to get lolsteamrolled by metabolize fades. If you do have weapons2 + then you just need to land your shots and the fades are kept at bay pretty reasonably.
If you think you deserve to frag a fade SOLO (just what I've been hearing as feedback in the reddit pugs) after hitting two full pellet shots then you are flawed in your mindset of the gameplay. Land your pistols on his exit if you want the frag imo.
Not the best example because Tane started walker fading once he got in [ I'm in no way bashing Tane here ]
but it shows how EASY it was to kill fades with the hp and energy that they have against W2/W3 premiere - ish level shotgun play.
I think that it's not super OP (it being the metabolize ability), it could be nerfed slightly on energy/hp recovery but let's not forget so quickly how gimped Fades felt and were in the late game vs ye old ROFL 2 shot weapons 3 shotgun and relying mostly on a dice roll in engagements that two shotgunners didn't land consistent shots on you. At least with metabolize and regen/cara now you have a better chance of surviving those late game engagements and you have more up time.
It should probably tweaked a small bit so that the Fade can't regenerate as much as he can when mucous + regen and metabolize all stack but I'm not sure how that can be addressed personally. Maybe just reducing the amount the advanced metabolize heals..
It does force better marine play.. but I don't find that a bad thing.
What the lower divisons lack in aim they can make up for in positioning and teamwork; if the Fade is low.. cut him quickly and get the frag before he can regenerate @ hive or nearby!
What the lower divisons lack in aim they can make up for in positioning and teamwork; if the Fade is low.. cut him quickly and get the frag before he can regenerate @ hive or nearby!
uhhhh. no. no they can't. That's why they're lower divs. You should know the biggest difference between the many 'premier level shooters' and actual premier players is the speed at which people do things which is directly related to their general gamesense/decisionmaking. It only gets worse the lower div you go. That's why there's all these 40-50 min stalemates in low divs.
Making fades better the longer an engagement goes on via regen and metabolize doesn't make them that much better at a premier level, but makes then rediculously op at a low level. A premier level fight is over after the first reload. Lower div fights usually go on for 2-3 reloads. Even further, regen is king of pubs where noone can hit a fade so they never need to back off and heal.
Comments
If you actually think that these people can have a positive impact on balance, then please encourage them to give their feedback on the mod. The people working on the mod are extremely receptive to feedback and ideas, but those ideas have to work within the current system. Things like "remove alien commander and exosuits" are not good suggestions -- they're too radical. The point of the mod is to keep the competitive game as similar to the vanilla game as possible while improving fun and balance.
Everyone has been asked for input. Australians have not been excluded. There is a thread about the balance mod on both these public UWE forums and the ensl forums. Everyone has had the opportunity to suggest ideas and criticize changes both before and after each iteration is created.
You can choose which tunnel entrance to replace now, there is no order. They are separate "structures" in the gorge build menu- drop tunnel entrance, and drop tunnel exit.
A better response would include your opinion on why eliminating jumping when wearing a jetpack that's not out of fuel is good game design and an improvement to the game. You seem to be approaching these changes as though the old behavior needs to be justified and the new behavior is the default, which is backward. The downsides of these changes need to be carefully considered and that should be much of what this thread is about.
At least in my eyes, part of fuel management is being able to say "Hey, I can normal jump up these boxes, lemme do that instead of wasting JP fuel" and being able to do so. With the comp mod changes to jetpacks, specifically the method of activation (Was it this way originally? TBH I can't remember, too many patches ago.) it just seems really counter-intuitive to not have that option to just plain jump onto small ledges you could ordinarily get to (thinking of the 2' high step in Organ on Jambi, because honestly, who takes the stairs?) without using the JP in some form now. I'm fine with the reduced fuel and all that jazz, just not sure if the increased responsiveness is an equal trade for your marine forgetting how to jump and thus making navigating the map more obnoxious (and thus less responsive in a different aspect) when you don't actually need/want the JP's abilities yet.
Aaand shadowposted by Fisk. How dare you!!11oneeleventy
I don't think you've kept up with the changes to the mod. Gorge tunnels are now separated into two different tunnels. You have a button for 'entrance' and one for 'exit'. The 'entrance' tunnel is green on your map. This allows for gorges to have absolute control about which tunnel to replace.
Every single person that plays NS2 has been asked for feedback via this thread and the one on the NSL site. Not only this, but there's been a thread on the ausns2.org forums linking to the changes and asking for feedback anywhere.
Not only this, but you commented saying that "best changes & direction this game has had in a long way". Were you just drunk when you responded here?
Anyone that has ANY opinion about the balance mod should feel free to post here in a constructive manner. This means backing up your comment of "nezza shouldn't call the changes stupid" with a reason like "because nezza posted somewhere else that he likes all the changes".
I have considered this. I don't think this is the case. I think it's more of the forced dual resource systems with both teams having Pres and Tres. But this isn't something that we can fix without making an entirely new game. If you have opinions about map balance, feel free to post them somewhere and maybe something will get done. Bitching and whining won't fix anything.
Some of these changes may make play harder at lower skill levels, but this is something that is actually needed within NS2. There are certain lifeforms and weapons which scale wildly with skill, leaving lower div gameplay a balance paradox at times.
I don't believe that jumping and jetpack use are as mutually exclusive as they've seemed in every iteration of the jetpack so far. Two possibilities I can think of that should work:
1. Pressing the jump button could activate both a jump and the jetpack. Tapping the button for a jump would use minimal fuel and you'd get your jump regardless of the amount of fuel you have. This would definitely work in vents.
2. Pressing the jump button while on the ground would trigger a jump, with the jetpack activating if the button is held or is pressed while not on the ground. This should also work in vents because even if the marine lands on the ground again before the jetpack activates, holding the button should still activate it. The hold delay for the jetpack would need to be tuned so it feels right.
If those aren't acceptable, then the current behavior could be made less bad by allowing jump when the jetpack has so little fuel that jumping is actually better. As soon as it has more fuel, the jump key would activate the jetpack, instead. What 'mode' it's in could be indicated with color on the fuel bar. I don't like this solution, but it's certainly better than nothing.
Marines can walk, regardless of how much jetpack fuel they have...
EDIT: Dragon is saying that energy is to fade movement as fuel is to jetpack movement. You can't blink without managing your energy, and you can't jet without managing your fuel. If you choose to waste your fuel to climb on top of a box that gets you onto a bigger platform, rather than just flying up (or walking?) to the platform itself, then that's on you.
EDIT: To reply to your edit, this is about being allowed to jump. Fades have to manage energy to blink. Marines have to manage fuel to fly. However, fades can move without blink regardless of how much energy they have, but marines' jumping is tied to how much fuel they have. Trying to ignore this and phrase the argument as being about how someone chose to spend their fuel is not useful.
I think Babblers just need some very very minor adjustments: They need more minimum force on their jump (the babbler has two variables that affect its jump force, minimum and maximum, based on its distance to its target). They also should jump lower.
From my testing, they can actually damage marines that are at maximum jump range. Ironically, Babbler become crippled when they try to jump at marines that are next to them. It's quite hilarious to watch Babblers repeatedly jump over your head, and miss when you stand still and hold the crouch key.
That said.. I agree that if possible the most technically smooth way of implementing the jetpack should be used so that jumping is still smooth and usable as well.
Hello all, thank you for those that showed up to the balance meeting and gave feedback. We've reviewed the state of the mod and made a few adjustments, the changelog can be found in the document and I will post it here as well (reasoning can be found in the doc):
Changes:
-Increase cooldown on Hallucination from 3 → 5 seconds
-Split Phantom back into 2 separate upgrades, Silence and Cloak. (shade hive will have 3 upgrades)
-Transfer more Phasegate eHP into armor. From 2000hp550ap → 1500hp800ap
-Reduce Onos Gore energy cost from 13 → 10, and Charge energy cost from 38 → 30
-Increase Metabolize tres cost from 10 → 15. Increase Improved Metabolize tres cost from 15 → 20, Switch normal Metabolize biomass requirement with Charge (move Charge to biomass 2, Metabolize to biomass 3)
Fixes:
-Advanced Metabolize now requires Metabolize to be researched before you can research it.
-Added the ability to jump back to the jetpack- it's not double jump, and jumping still consumes fuel, but you should always be able to jump regardless of current fuel levels
-Sent whips to whip-bootcamp to improve their aim and reliability (should no longer bug out constantly when a marine is clearly in their melee range)
With that, THE BIG(ish)PATCH will be going into the live competitive mod on Monday, 4/21. As always we are always accepting feedback and keeping an eye on things.
(as always huge thank you to Dragon for coding everything!)
Why do you need to jump when you have a jetpack!??!/!:!L!I1j;f
Spamming it and just flying around for extended periods of time is not the most efficient way of using it and in those scenarios you will likely die.
If you run out of fuel mid air and have to land but then are able to infinitely dodge after that with small hops it might need to be looked at but I haven't really seen jetpacks in a real game yet so I'm going to hold my judgement.
EDIT:
After testing it myself you really only get one small jet jump after you run out and then you don't regain fast enough to continue using small jet jumps to any degree of usefulness.
So I think it was worth looking at but currently fine "as is" personally.
Madeon. Talented young mofo.
Also Onos feels completely useless until he has Celerity and/or Charge and even then he probably needs Umbra support to not flash to 3 marines even with support. As is, it feels like a complete waste of 55 pres. At least make Onos 2 hit a1 marines again by making the damage 95, that way you don't 1 shot armorless marines, but you still 2 hit a1 marines.
To fix we should add 2 second cooldown on marines being able to walk post jetpack use.
If you don't have weapons2+ by then you deserve to get lolsteamrolled by metabolize fades. If you do have weapons2 + then you just need to land your shots and the fades are kept at bay pretty reasonably.
If you think you deserve to frag a fade SOLO (just what I've been hearing as feedback in the reddit pugs) after hitting two full pellet shots then you are flawed in your mindset of the gameplay. Land your pistols on his exit if you want the frag imo.
Not the best example because Tane started walker fading once he got in [ I'm in no way bashing Tane here ]
but it shows how EASY it was to kill fades with the hp and energy that they have against W2/W3 premiere - ish level shotgun play.
I think that it's not super OP (it being the metabolize ability), it could be nerfed slightly on energy/hp recovery but let's not forget so quickly how gimped Fades felt and were in the late game vs ye old ROFL 2 shot weapons 3 shotgun and relying mostly on a dice roll in engagements that two shotgunners didn't land consistent shots on you. At least with metabolize and regen/cara now you have a better chance of surviving those late game engagements and you have more up time.
It should probably tweaked a small bit so that the Fade can't regenerate as much as he can when mucous + regen and metabolize all stack but I'm not sure how that can be addressed personally. Maybe just reducing the amount the advanced metabolize heals..
It does force better marine play.. but I don't find that a bad thing.
What the lower divisons lack in aim they can make up for in positioning and teamwork; if the Fade is low.. cut him quickly and get the frag before he can regenerate @ hive or nearby!
uhhhh. no. no they can't. That's why they're lower divs. You should know the biggest difference between the many 'premier level shooters' and actual premier players is the speed at which people do things which is directly related to their general gamesense/decisionmaking. It only gets worse the lower div you go. That's why there's all these 40-50 min stalemates in low divs.
Making fades better the longer an engagement goes on via regen and metabolize doesn't make them that much better at a premier level, but makes then rediculously op at a low level. A premier level fight is over after the first reload. Lower div fights usually go on for 2-3 reloads. Even further, regen is king of pubs where noone can hit a fade so they never need to back off and heal.
The way it scales just doesn't work.