@d0ped0g The key words in his statement are: Until we get proper bugfixes for the original NS2.
This is something that is unrelated to Faultline games, and is totally outside of their control.
Correct it would be like continuing to complain to UWE about lack of multithread support but that is more of a LUA issue. (although not using lua would have avoided that... but hey that is what we got and it is not going to change)
Not sure what you're getting at with that comparison.
All I'm trying to say is that it's entirely possible and reasonable to not buy this game and it have nothing to do with Faultline. The original suggestion was that the person who isn't buying it because of his dissatisfaction with ns2 is somehow blaming Faultline for these issues - which not only is false, but unfair to characterize it as such, as applying common sense would indicate that this is a misrepresentation of what he said.
Unless, of course, somebody can convince me that - "Until we get proper bugfixes for the original NS2, I am not buying anything." - somehow unequivocally indicates blame towards Faultline...
In a thread solely about standalone combat and Faultline games, where many of the preceding comments are about how people will definitely be buying combat, or questions about how much combat will be, common sense dictates that "I am not buying anything" relates at least in part to combat standalone.
The threat of withholding purchase by a potential customer clearly has the aim of telling UWE how dissatisfied he is with them, but this must, given the context, also apply towards faultline games by definition, whether or not this was the original intention (I don't think it was, but that's not the point). The reason this statement is true is because by specifically not buying the game in a protest, not only does whatever UWE's proportion of the sale (however big or small that may be) get withheld - undoubtedly the intention - but also Faultline Games is 'punished' by this protest move by not getting their share, which at a guess is likely to be significantly the greater amount.
I'm not arguing that his intention isn't solely towards UWE - of course it is.
But:
a) Not buying combat is denying faultline games a sale (which by inference they would otherwise have had)
b) Putting an ultimatum that original NS2 must be fixed before he buys combat gives faultline games no way to appease the customer: they have no say on what UWE does to NS2, it's a totally standalone game and a separate company.
Either way, it's a petty, badly worded post that is bad manners to Faultline Games, because something outside of their control that applies to another game is stated as the impediment to the sale. It's frankly also bad manners to come to UWE's own forums to bitch about their product without saying anything constructive, although that does appear to be the norm around here. It's fine to criticise, but it's common courtesy to do so constructively.
I'll try and wrap this up for everybody's benefit:
I think if you originally just said "Punishing Faultline games for your complaints (UWE's) NS2 development is pretty low" instead of "Blaming Faultline games for your complaints about (UWE's) NS2 development is pretty low" then I might not have even posted a response (and I think if you'd worded it like that initially, my common sense would have also lead me to understand that you meant collaterally rather than intentionally too).
It's just that the latter quote is either a deliberate strawman, or an accidental misrepresentation of your own position by wording it wrong or whatever. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt it's the last one in the interest of moving on. Anyway, I now explicitly understand that the former quote with the word "punishing" in replace of your original word "blaming" is more representative of your own position - so that's a whole different story.
The collateral damage is regrettable. Low though? I'll just concede that can be left up to debate and just leave it at that. We've already drifted into this particular subject away from the primary thesis (blame as opposed to what we're talking about now - unintentional collateral punishment), so I've really said all I have to say on that regarding money and intent and whatnot - and a debate on this subject would never have gotten me to put hand to keyboard to type this garbage if I knew that's what I was getting into when I first posted. So even though the subject could certainly be expanded on and picked apart further and further until it's bone-dry, that secondary debate isn't really worth my obviously-not-so-precious time (at least, not anymore). We've already done far too much waffling on about it, when it isn't even what the initial disagreement was about (the blame thing).
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited April 2014
Hear ye, hear ye :
@d0ped0g you are hereby decreed as the king of semantics in these forums!
Argue forth good sir, and don't let your misinterpreting or long replies slow your crusade!
Someone out there surely appreciates - or at least is entertained by - this good read. :-P
I second that, can we keep this Combat related and stop arguing about what UWE is doing with THEIR game, surly there are other topics out there to go to for that sort of thing.
Something I'm curious about us whether or not alien and marine movement will be the same. I guess what I'm getting at is would it still be a useful tool for practicing ns2 or will enough tHings be slightly altered enough that I don't want to get too used to things in combat so as not to carry more bad habits into real ns2c games?
About the price - Is it safe to bet that it will be less expensive that a full copy of NS2? (that is, less than $24.99)
Remember, we're not exactly sure WHAT it is yet. The impression I got was that it is substantially more than just a port of the NS2 mod (more game modes, maps... I don't remember if/where I read this... just seem to remember it for some reason...) But yea, I certainly can't see it costing as much as NS2. I'd be happy paying $10-15 for it... but again that's entirely dependent on the content of the game... so more of a guess, really.
Just out of curiosity, who is testing this game? Is it the same pool of NS2 playtesters?
Jesus, this thread went from combat to how we interpret one person's one post. Le sigh.
Curious as to why you disagreed with my post, rooba. Anyway.... combat!
I think more people just need to visit the announcement page. Half of these questions will be answered there (or there is no answer to certain question because it is unknown).
About the price - Is it safe to bet that it will be less expensive that a full copy of NS2? (that is, less than $24.99)
Remember, we're not exactly sure WHAT it is yet. The impression I got was that it is substantially more than just a port of the NS2 mod (more game modes, maps... I don't remember if/where I read this... just seem to remember it for some reason...) But yea, I certainly can't see it costing as much as NS2. I'd be happy paying $10-15 for it... but again that's entirely dependent on the content of the game... so more of a guess, really.
Just out of curiosity, who is testing this game? Is it the same pool of NS2 playtesters?
Disclaimer: No facts incomming
Only reason I would say that the price should be less that NS2 is that many (if not most) of the assets, and I would assume a good portion of the base code came from NS2...so they wouldn't need to charge for the work to create that (at least not as much).
If it does become a platform for things like Xenoswarm, Skulks With Shotguns and other mods (which does sound likely), I think it'd be fair to charge as much as NS2 costs, but not more.
Of course I am completely ignorant of any kind of coding/modding/game dev experience, and will buy it either way.
About the price - Is it safe to bet that it will be less expensive that a full copy of NS2? (that is, less than $24.99)
Remember, we're not exactly sure WHAT it is yet. The impression I got was that it is substantially more than just a port of the NS2 mod (more game modes, maps... I don't remember if/where I read this... just seem to remember it for some reason...) But yea, I certainly can't see it costing as much as NS2. I'd be happy paying $10-15 for it... but again that's entirely dependent on the content of the game... so more of a guess, really.
Just out of curiosity, who is testing this game? Is it the same pool of NS2 playtesters?
Disclaimer: No facts incomming
What? Of course there's facts incoming. I figure we'll probably have some concrete answers once they ship the game. It'd be a little presumptuous to just say "buy our game, oh but we're not telling you what's in it!"
EDIT: Bah, read your post wrong. Thought you were saying they (faultline) weren't going to tell us anything, lol.
I don't get what they're trying to achieve by doing this?
Combat is a good mod but i can't see them adding nearly enough content to make it ok to resale us something which should be free anyway, i bought ns2 partly based on how much community content was expected to come, i feel it fell quite short of it's potential.
If it's as i expect and 90% code changes then im sorry but that's not good enough.
Can servers run existing combat maps without them needing to be reuploaded to the workshop?
If so im not sure some mappers will be happy their work is being used in another game they can't play without paying for.
As I mentioned earlier, due to the time frame we have before release and map making takes months before you see a finished map we are using existing maps, the mappers are working closely with us to polish them and add changes where its needed. right now there is one new map in the works by our mapper Mr.P and more to follow by others once the ones we are gonna ship with are in good shape.
As I mentioned earlier, due to the time frame we have before release and map making takes months before you see a finished map we are using existing maps, the mappers are working closely with us to polish them and add changes where its needed. right now there is one new map in the works by our mapper Mr.P and more to follow by others once the ones we are gonna ship with are in good shape.
Oooh which maps? Surely faceoff and pulse made the cut!
Hi everyone, I wanted to ask something here just to get an idea of how interested you the community are in this before we plan anything.
We are currently starting to implement more new things in the game so my question is would you rather have a small live Q&A soon but not show off the new things or wait a little longer to do one were we show the new things? or perhaps a mixture of both?
I'm not sure when it will be as we have enough work on our hands atm but we really want to do one at some point.
Let us know what you think so that we plan it beforehand.
Both. Say I was unable to watch the first one, but may be able to watch the second with my questions. Maybe the first will produce good discussion bringing more discussion after we sit on it awhile. I myself am very curious, so I assume many are too, so sooner would be my preference if not both.
I like the Combat mode when you don't feel like it to play a full blown strategic game and you just want to frag/eat enemies. And the only game where i can get Shade upgrade right from the start. In full game, in 99% of times, comm's use all other upgrades first and if i'm lucky, shade for the last when the game is over anyway. And that sucks.
As I mentioned earlier, due to the time frame we have before release and map making takes months before you see a finished map we are using existing maps, the mappers are working closely with us to polish them and add changes where its needed. right now there is one new map in the works by our mapper Mr.P and more to follow by others once the ones we are gonna ship with are in good shape.
Oooh which maps? Surely faceoff and pulse made the cut!
Comments
Correct it would be like continuing to complain to UWE about lack of multithread support but that is more of a LUA issue. (although not using lua would have avoided that... but hey that is what we got and it is not going to change)
All I'm trying to say is that it's entirely possible and reasonable to not buy this game and it have nothing to do with Faultline. The original suggestion was that the person who isn't buying it because of his dissatisfaction with ns2 is somehow blaming Faultline for these issues - which not only is false, but unfair to characterize it as such, as applying common sense would indicate that this is a misrepresentation of what he said.
Unless, of course, somebody can convince me that - "Until we get proper bugfixes for the original NS2, I am not buying anything." - somehow unequivocally indicates blame towards Faultline...
The threat of withholding purchase by a potential customer clearly has the aim of telling UWE how dissatisfied he is with them, but this must, given the context, also apply towards faultline games by definition, whether or not this was the original intention (I don't think it was, but that's not the point). The reason this statement is true is because by specifically not buying the game in a protest, not only does whatever UWE's proportion of the sale (however big or small that may be) get withheld - undoubtedly the intention - but also Faultline Games is 'punished' by this protest move by not getting their share, which at a guess is likely to be significantly the greater amount.
I'm not arguing that his intention isn't solely towards UWE - of course it is.
But:
a) Not buying combat is denying faultline games a sale (which by inference they would otherwise have had)
b) Putting an ultimatum that original NS2 must be fixed before he buys combat gives faultline games no way to appease the customer: they have no say on what UWE does to NS2, it's a totally standalone game and a separate company.
Either way, it's a petty, badly worded post that is bad manners to Faultline Games, because something outside of their control that applies to another game is stated as the impediment to the sale. It's frankly also bad manners to come to UWE's own forums to bitch about their product without saying anything constructive, although that does appear to be the norm around here. It's fine to criticise, but it's common courtesy to do so constructively.
I think if you originally just said "Punishing Faultline games for your complaints (UWE's) NS2 development is pretty low" instead of "Blaming Faultline games for your complaints about (UWE's) NS2 development is pretty low" then I might not have even posted a response (and I think if you'd worded it like that initially, my common sense would have also lead me to understand that you meant collaterally rather than intentionally too).
It's just that the latter quote is either a deliberate strawman, or an accidental misrepresentation of your own position by wording it wrong or whatever. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt it's the last one in the interest of moving on. Anyway, I now explicitly understand that the former quote with the word "punishing" in replace of your original word "blaming" is more representative of your own position - so that's a whole different story.
The collateral damage is regrettable. Low though? I'll just concede that can be left up to debate and just leave it at that. We've already drifted into this particular subject away from the primary thesis (blame as opposed to what we're talking about now - unintentional collateral punishment), so I've really said all I have to say on that regarding money and intent and whatnot - and a debate on this subject would never have gotten me to put hand to keyboard to type this garbage if I knew that's what I was getting into when I first posted. So even though the subject could certainly be expanded on and picked apart further and further until it's bone-dry, that secondary debate isn't really worth my obviously-not-so-precious time (at least, not anymore). We've already done far too much waffling on about it, when it isn't even what the initial disagreement was about (the blame thing).
@d0ped0g you are hereby decreed as the king of semantics in these forums!
Argue forth good sir, and don't let your misinterpreting or long replies slow your crusade!
Someone out there surely appreciates - or at least is entertained by - this good read. :-P
/my derailing contribution
About the price - Is it safe to bet that it will be less expensive that a full copy of NS2? (that is, less than $24.99)
Remember, we're not exactly sure WHAT it is yet. The impression I got was that it is substantially more than just a port of the NS2 mod (more game modes, maps... I don't remember if/where I read this... just seem to remember it for some reason...) But yea, I certainly can't see it costing as much as NS2. I'd be happy paying $10-15 for it... but again that's entirely dependent on the content of the game... so more of a guess, really.
Just out of curiosity, who is testing this game? Is it the same pool of NS2 playtesters?
Curious as to why you disagreed with my post, rooba. Anyway.... combat!
I think more people just need to visit the announcement page. Half of these questions will be answered there (or there is no answer to certain question because it is unknown).
Disclaimer: No facts incomming
Only reason I would say that the price should be less that NS2 is that many (if not most) of the assets, and I would assume a good portion of the base code came from NS2...so they wouldn't need to charge for the work to create that (at least not as much).
If it does become a platform for things like Xenoswarm, Skulks With Shotguns and other mods (which does sound likely), I think it'd be fair to charge as much as NS2 costs, but not more.
Of course I am completely ignorant of any kind of coding/modding/game dev experience, and will buy it either way.
What? Of course there's facts incoming. I figure we'll probably have some concrete answers once they ship the game. It'd be a little presumptuous to just say "buy our game, oh but we're not telling you what's in it!"
EDIT: Bah, read your post wrong. Thought you were saying they (faultline) weren't going to tell us anything, lol.
Yes, as of right now the playtesters who worked on NS2 are UWE Playtesters and are working on all projects - NS2, Subnautica, & Combat.
Combat is a good mod but i can't see them adding nearly enough content to make it ok to resale us something which should be free anyway, i bought ns2 partly based on how much community content was expected to come, i feel it fell quite short of it's potential.
If it's as i expect and 90% code changes then im sorry but that's not good enough.
Can servers run existing combat maps without them needing to be reuploaded to the workshop?
If so im not sure some mappers will be happy their work is being used in another game they can't play without paying for.
Total guess here, but I would assume faultline would either A) pay them for use of their maps, or
Oooh which maps? Surely faceoff and pulse made the cut!
This seems like a shameless troll post to what really wasn't worth saying. Pretty disgusting.
Yes, I agree
We are currently starting to implement more new things in the game so my question is would you rather have a small live Q&A soon but not show off the new things or wait a little longer to do one were we show the new things? or perhaps a mixture of both?
I'm not sure when it will be as we have enough work on our hands atm but we really want to do one at some point.
Let us know what you think so that we plan it beforehand.
Called it. Pulse made it!