Hmm I really think the rejoin ban is the whole point here, though. Not after the first kick, just to clarify. So say someone is afk and they get kicked, once they come back, they can freely rejoin. If they're repeatedly going afk and get kicked again, what's the harm in keeping that player out til map change or something? And just have it based like map to map? So like, kicked twice before server rotates maps, auto temp ban til map change?
Clearly they're not joined up to make an impact on their team if they're just taking up a slot then going afk (border-line trolling anyways, isn't that what we're trying to deter?), so why not keep em out til they're ready to sit down and be a productive teammate?
I think you are trying to find a solution for a problem that barely - if at all - exists. Don't make a system more complicated than it needs to be. Basic design philosophy. Decoy's proposed solution on trello should be able to deal with 99.9% of all cases, if not more, and that 0.1% is just not worth the additional complexity.
(Else I already see discussions of confusal appear every time someone tries to kick someone: "How does the new votekick work again?")
The more I thought about it, I don't like the idea of attaching a rejoin ban on votekicks. Players will get kicked for being AFK, being too high skilled, being too low skilled, etc. If you're just trying to remove someone from the server, you shouldn't also be voting to keep them away from the server. A kick and a temporary ban are two different things, they should have two different options.
I'm just not sure even a temp vote ban option should be available, either. I feel like that has more likelihood to be abused than a kick since it carries weightier consequences if indeed it is a troll vote.
All I'm saying is that it would be nice if servers could recognize on their own that if a player is kicked twice during one map, that player should then be prevented from joining again until map change (as an example). Mods reset at map change, dunno why this would have to be much different.
That said, I have no idea what spark/servers/etc. are capable of doing in that regard. Just shooting out ideas, voicing my opinion.
If people on here are having a hard time figuring it out, do you think it will work in a server with no forum members playing? Vote-kick can be trolled already. And people love the f1 button, as said before.
Meh, was gonna say more but I think it's mostly covered.
Make the yes and no random. F1 isn't always yes or no... just randomize it.
If people on here are having a hard time figuring it out, do you think it will work in a server with no forum members playing? Vote-kick can be trolled already. And people love the f1 button, as said before.
Meh, was gonna say more but I think it's mostly covered.
Make the yes and no random. F1 isn't always yes or no... just randomize it.
That button wasnt really the point. Some people will vote yes if a couple people on the other team call a vote-ban (temp or whatever) and give a legitimate reason (but a lie) to make more ppl vote yes. people won't wait and they'll join another server and avoid the other.
There's just a chance of this being abused, and however long the ban is will drive people away from certain servers that they got unjustifiably banned on one. This should stay in the hands of the admins. Then, someone can be accountable for the temp ban or perma ban.
Off-topic, is this a huge issue in ns2 right now (compared to other issues)? If it seems to be one of the bigger issues in the game, then continue ze debate!
Maybe we should all just ignore logic and respond NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO to basic requests. This reminds me of this:
Here's a mental excercise for you, if infact you are kicking someone from the server, what harm does a 5min ban do in this case? I really am curious what's the logical response to this. Abuse aside.
If the only complaint you have is what the function is called, then i'll just give up and continue amusing myself with pelargirl jokes.
I am a admin on a group of a servers, and I have seen MANY MANY cases of where people mindlessly hit f1 on votes.
Even among regulars, I've seen times where we voted reset 10x in a row, or mapchanged back and forth over and over. The majority of these people aren't trolls/bad people. They are just doing it for the lawls. Even if other people are against it, its not hard to convince the 'mob' to do something stupid/pointless.
Now can you imagine these people playing with the ability to timeout other players?
(Luckily the servers I play on disable votekick, as there is usually an admin/kidmin on)
I am a admin on a group of a servers, and I have seen MANY MANY cases of where people mindlessly hit f1 on votes.
Even among regulars, I've seen times where we voted reset 10x in a row, or mapchanged back and forth over and over. The majority of these people aren't trolls/bad people. They are just doing it for the lawls. Even if other people are against it, its not hard to convince the 'mob' to do something stupid/pointless.
Now can you imagine these people playing with the ability to timeout other players?
(Luckily the servers I play on disable votekick, as there is usually an admin/kidmin on)
Just my two cents.
Definitely the point. But we cannot expect to find out an admin on every servers unfortunately and that's probably why a such change for the vote kick is needed in my opinion at least. This is a risk to be taken and everything that is added can be removed regarding of the reaction of the players if there's too many abuses or something.
I really don't see why people are opposed to it. Use the Valve system. If you are kicked via a vote, attach a 5 min ban. There isn't any reason not to do this. If your afk, too nub, or just being an asshat, there shouldn't be an option for an instant rejoin.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
We should have a "Reason" text field to type into so that you dont have to play the dont game of people voting No because there was no reason given soon enough.
Comments
I think you are trying to find a solution for a problem that barely - if at all - exists. Don't make a system more complicated than it needs to be. Basic design philosophy. Decoy's proposed solution on trello should be able to deal with 99.9% of all cases, if not more, and that 0.1% is just not worth the additional complexity.
(Else I already see discussions of confusal appear every time someone tries to kick someone: "How does the new votekick work again?")
I'm just not sure even a temp vote ban option should be available, either. I feel like that has more likelihood to be abused than a kick since it carries weightier consequences if indeed it is a troll vote.
All I'm saying is that it would be nice if servers could recognize on their own that if a player is kicked twice during one map, that player should then be prevented from joining again until map change (as an example). Mods reset at map change, dunno why this would have to be much different.
That said, I have no idea what spark/servers/etc. are capable of doing in that regard. Just shooting out ideas, voicing my opinion.
Make the yes and no random. F1 isn't always yes or no... just randomize it.
That button wasnt really the point. Some people will vote yes if a couple people on the other team call a vote-ban (temp or whatever) and give a legitimate reason (but a lie) to make more ppl vote yes. people won't wait and they'll join another server and avoid the other.
There's just a chance of this being abused, and however long the ban is will drive people away from certain servers that they got unjustifiably banned on one. This should stay in the hands of the admins. Then, someone can be accountable for the temp ban or perma ban.
Off-topic, is this a huge issue in ns2 right now (compared to other issues)? If it seems to be one of the bigger issues in the game, then continue ze debate!
No. Nonononono.
Hell no.
Temp Voteban as an option, yes.
Votekick with a ban by default? nonono.
Votekick should NEVER have a ban effect, EVER. A voteban(with kick included) is much more important to have than giving votekicks a ban entailed.
That way people know what they're voting for, and will size up the reasons for and against accordingly.
That's a sign you have been kicked so many times...
(joke)
Maybe we should all just ignore logic and respond NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO to basic requests. This reminds me of this:
Here's a mental excercise for you, if infact you are kicking someone from the server, what harm does a 5min ban do in this case? I really am curious what's the logical response to this. Abuse aside.
If the only complaint you have is what the function is called, then i'll just give up and continue amusing myself with pelargirl jokes.
I'll say one thing in my defence..
"they started it".
....and i lost it. (take that as you will)
Bah, anyway, if you were European, you would be already kicked by myself on some random public servers.
Even among regulars, I've seen times where we voted reset 10x in a row, or mapchanged back and forth over and over. The majority of these people aren't trolls/bad people. They are just doing it for the lawls. Even if other people are against it, its not hard to convince the 'mob' to do something stupid/pointless.
Now can you imagine these people playing with the ability to timeout other players?
(Luckily the servers I play on disable votekick, as there is usually an admin/kidmin on)
Just my two cents.
Definitely the point. But we cannot expect to find out an admin on every servers unfortunately and that's probably why a such change for the vote kick is needed in my opinion at least. This is a risk to be taken and everything that is added can be removed regarding of the reaction of the players if there's too many abuses or something.
better yet, how about we don't allow people to even buy the game unless they have 100 hours logged on the original?