<!--QuoteBegin--xioutlawix+Jan 11 2003, 09:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Jan 11 2003, 09:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hopping up and down wildly is not "skill", otherwise if it was a valid tactic our army would be teaching soldiers to "hop up and down while strafing in a circle", personally I think it detracts from the atmosphere of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ummm . . . idiot :-P I'm sorry but really, they've never had to train soldiers to dodge acid bombs, projectile poisonous gas, and itty bitty dogs biting out your knee caps . . . I'm also pretty sure they don't train people to chase down 8 foot tall fades with a knife
Wierd - I was playing Aliens last night on this computer's DVD-ROM while I played NS on the one next to it. I remember that scene but there was a distinct lack of bunnyhopping. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--NinjaBurger+Jan 13 2003, 06:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NinjaBurger @ Jan 13 2003, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->2 Pages worth of off-topic, movie script paste.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratualtions Ninja.....
YUO WIN TEH PRIEZ!!!111
Now if anyone would actually like to continue the discussion, instead of posting a review of saving private ryan, the thread might become a little more interesting.
<Post toned down - won't someone please think of the children!?>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's roughly as weak an argument as complaining about bunnyhopping "because it looks silly" or making irrational comments regarding ferrets. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it isn't. Why? Becayse bunny hopping does look silly and has no business in a mod like this. "Running in straight lines like newbs" is immatieral and has no bearing at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Jan 13 2003, 07:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Jan 13 2003, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But if they <b>DID</b>, would they tell them to bounce around?
<b>no.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If an alien with big teeth came charging at me I would hopefully (if I didn't stand still and wet myself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) throw myself to get out of the way. Now it's pretty hard to hit the deck in NS due to the lack of command to do it but instead you can jump out of the way. Real marines most likely dont jump around all the time but they sure as **** doesnt stand on their feet all the time. I'm all for removing BH just like Flayra said but untill we get some more movements I think there is a need for jumping in combat. The big problem with jumping in combat is more of an hitbox issue. Fix those (dont know how hard it is) and much of the problem of jumping marines will be gone. Personaly when I'm playing skulk I allways jump for the torso. It avoids many of my problems.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> when I'm playing skulk I allways jump for the torso. It avoids many of my problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good rule of thumb, although having to do so greatly limits your manouverability. Hitbox issues are something i would like to see addressed as well.
<!--QuoteBegin--Shockwave+Jan 14 2003, 12:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Jan 14 2003, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But if they <b>DID</b>, would they tell them to bounce around?
<b>no.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If real world physics worked the same way as they do in Halflife, then yes. We all know certain natural laws in the real world. We all know that you can't jump off an extremely high ledge and be able to walk after it, but you can do this in NS in the room outside the generator hive. We all know that if you rub your hands together they get warmer from friction. Just like the real world, Halflife has its own set of natural laws, or physics. Jumping causes you to gain speed. Arcing through the air causes you to gain speed. So combining these two movements would cause you to gain speed. It's just a refined use of the laws of HL physics the same way as a car's engine is a refined use of realworld physics like combustion. So yes, if you grew up in the HL world as a marine, they would have taught you these things, or you would have learned them already.
If I might continue, I guess humans are exploiters. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> We weren't meant to fly (note: lack of wings) but we do so through the use of airplanes. Our speed limit is roughly 25 mph running full sprint, but we break the speed cap every day on the commute to work. For those of you who say bhop is unnecessary and won't slow the game down, I guess the world wouldn't slow down if we took cars away eh? OMG EXPLOITS!! This is destroying the balance of the world. Birds are complaining that we are cheating, dogs are angry because we can go faster than them now. I hope a new patch comes out to fix this!
I think Ninja's wonderful take on Aliens cuts straight to the point of the arguement.
Bunny hopping has no place in an immersive and atmospheric teamplay oriented game such as NS. I would have nil objection in a fragfest such as Quake 3.
Um, Just played a server where someone started to backwards bunny hop away from me (I was a skulk).. it's amazing that he was getting further away from me, moving BACKWARDS, and SHOOTING me. Yeah, bunny hopping detracts from gameplay, making the marines literally faster than an alien. Something's just shady about that, and I'm glad they'll be getting rid of it. A marine moving faster than a skulk, being impossible to hit (I hit his #$@% boots 3 times, speeding him up even more, and they didn't even have armor upgrades yet) just makes the game unfair.
B-hopping in general is weird, and the hitbox issue just makes this as easy to exploit as the alien "skin-hacking" (aka issue fixed in 1.04)
Seems to me this whole disscussion is player preferance. I can draw parallels between this discussion and binds/scripts. IE Valve never put weapon binds into the GUI for HL. I've always considdered binding weapons to keys an exploit. Even though this is something that CAN be done by ALL players I think it forever altered the feel of HL. Thats why all the good HL servers are gone, and only trash like Chuchamunga Chunk of Phlegm is left. Binding/Scripting/Aliases are in essance the same as bunnyhopping. I'm very glad you people CAN do it, doesnt mean you should. And just to make myself clear, it does take quite a bit of skill to be a good bind/script abuser. However this doesnt change the fact thats its wrong. Well see what Flay desides to do with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Jan 14 2003, 07:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Jan 14 2003, 07:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I've always considdered binding weapons to keys an exploit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
A rewrite of the Aliens script, while funny, really has no bearing on Natural Selection. NS is not Aliens, and real-world physics (which Aliens has, even if it's science fiction) are a poor argument in a discussion of game-engine physics. NS has some realism elements, and some not-so-realism elements.
Personally, until a developer codes into their FPS evasive maneuvers with the complexity of games like Oni or Soul Calibur, I don't see why jumping to avoid an attack is so terrible. If you're sick of marines jumping over your bites, jump at them. A jumping skulk will hit a marine on the ground or in the air.
Bunnyhopping while moving backwards to get around the backpedal speed is an exploit, and (barring unforseen difficulties) will be dealt with in 1.1.
I think at least half of the people that has posted on here is still missing the point Flayra is trying to make. At least half of that half is probably confused about just exatly what bunnyhopping really is.
Flayra already stated that you will still be able to jump around and around and around. Sound is one of the most important aspect of NS alerting you to nearby enemies via their footsteps. What is going on right now as of 1.0x is that a marine can jump, then duck, then jump while ducking and just bounce around the map at WALKING speed OR FASTER while making absolutely NO SOUND. I can do this fairly well and I know 2 other people that can do this a whole lot better than me. THAT is the MAIN problem and it will be addressed in 1.1 Also, jumping around and going faster than the max running speed will also be addressed.
In 1.1 you will still be able to jump like a madman while a skulk is snapping at your heels, but what you can't do is outrun the skulk by BUNNYHOPPING away from him. A very viable reason and one that should really be the only reason worth consideration is that whether it adds or detracts from gameplay. Obviously, enough people thinks it detracts, so Flayra is going to change it, and that's that. All other reasons are either personal or irrelevant. Of course, this is only my opinion =D
SPECULATION: From the gist of what Flayra is saying, I'm also guessing that you will no longer be able to jump, do a 180, shoot, and continue to jump backward at forward peddling speed. I'm guessing that he'll change it so that backpeddiling is back peddling whether you're jumping or not.
joevGiving grief... With a smile.Join Date: 2002-07-20Member: 977Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin--[Ironshirt]AIucard+Jan 15 2003, 04:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([Ironshirt]AIucard @ Jan 15 2003, 04:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think at least half of the people that has posted on here is still missing the point Flayra is trying to make. At least half of that half is probably confused about just exatly what bunnyhopping really is.
Flayra already stated that you will still be able to jump around and around and around. Sound is one of the most important aspect of NS alerting you to nearby enemies via their footsteps. What is going on right now as of 1.0x is that a marine can jump, then duck, then jump while ducking and just bounce around the map at WALKING speed OR FASTER while making absolutely NO SOUND. I can do this fairly well and I know 2 other people that can do this a whole lot better than me. THAT is the MAIN problem and it will be addressed in 1.1 Also, jumping around and going faster than the max running speed will also be addressed.
In 1.1 you will still be able to jump like a madman while a skulk is snapping at your heels, but what you can't do is outrun the skulk by BUNNYHOPPING away from him. A very viable reason and one that should really be the only reason worth consideration is that whether it adds or detracts from gameplay. Obviously, enough people thinks it detracts, so Flayra is going to change it, and that's that. All other reasons are either personal or irrelevant. Of course, this is only my opinion =D
SPECULATION: From the gist of what Flayra is saying, I'm also guessing that you will no longer be able to jump, do a 180, shoot, and continue to jump backward at forward peddling speed. I'm guessing that he'll change it so that backpeddiling is back peddling whether you're jumping or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok.. there are several issues here that are getting munged and confused together...
Bunnyhopping, the exploit, is gaining (too much) speed by using a game engine bug. This is being dealt with.
Bunny *Bouncing* (as I call it) is the whole marine jumping up and down on the spot to avoid ankle biting skulks and is a different issue. I don't get the impression that this is being removed, nor would I like to see it, unless, of course, Flay gives us the ability to dive sideways, roll and come up shooting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> No, it's not realistic.. but it's the best thing that can be done in the current game engine.
As for other issues, on backpedalling, silent movement etc etc, then I hope flay is going to apply backpedal speed to jumping as well to stop either of the above from increasing a players backward movement.
Personally speaking, I *love* DoD's stamina system (though I think the stamina usage is too high) as it adds a realism to the game while at the same time giving me a choice as to how I use my 'stamina' unlike CS's kludge which I abhor.
I'd love to see a marine stamina system + sprinting in there as well as the 'energy' for skulks being required for sprinting/jumping... it would totally change the gameplay on an individual level from simple Frag it![tm] to tactical. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I love bunny hopping <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->(
<!--QuoteBegin--[Ironshirt]AIucard+Jan 14 2003, 05:11 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([Ironshirt]AIucard @ Jan 14 2003, 05:11 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->at WALKING speed OR FASTER while making absolutely NO SOUND.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I played around with stealth hopping a bit more recently, and there's actually no reason you can't get full hop speed out of it. Which would be a tad faster than normal running speed while completely silent. All you forfeit over regular hopping is a degree of air control.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd love to see a marine stamina system + sprinting in there <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok.... so consider this analogy. Bunnyhopping = sprint manouver, bunnyhopping speed limiter = stamina bar. After so many hops you hit the stamina limit and lose your speed. So basically what you want in the game is exactly what we've already got, except you want it simplified to the act of holding down a sprint key?
Do you believe bunnyhopping "totally changes the gameplay on an individual level from simple Frag it![tm] to tactical."? If not, what makes you think a sprint key would?
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Jan 14 2003, 04:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Jan 14 2003, 04:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I don't see why jumping to avoid an attack is so terrible.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Uhm someone back up the clue train, he doesn't even know what bunnyhopping is (hint: it's not just jumping up and down a lot while being attacked).
Bunyhopping is the exploit where the game's physics code is exploited by using a certain combination of jumping, turning, and a couple other things to create a way for the player to fly across the map at an incredible speed to allow them to get to places much much faster than they normally could. Sorry my definition is poor, but I want to make it clear what we're talking about here, which is NOT jumping up and down in combat.
the stamina system is the best idea ive heard in this post, that should get rid of bunny hopping script lamers <img src='http://www.abaddonsbelly.netfirms.com/bellybanner.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I can't believe anyone else didn't see this really except for a few.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also if this is such a horrible cheat, why dosen't ANY of the TFC leagues outlaw bunny hop? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you guys read at the top of this webpage, but I was pretty sure it reads "Natural Selection" and <b>NOT</b> Aliens, <b>NOT</b> AvP2, <b>NOT</b> CS, <b>NOT</b> TFC, <b>NOT</b> Any other ****ing game, movie, or idea you might of EVER had in your life.
This is the game Natural Selection. It's <b>NOT</b> going to be TFC, it's <b>NOT</b> going to be Aliens, it's <b>NOT</b> going to be CS, DOD, or whatever comparison you can pull out from EITHER side of the argument's ***.
This is the Natural Selection Team's game, this is how they want it played, this is how they want the atmosphere preserved (which I may add TFC does NOT have), and most of all they want Natural Selection to... remain Natural Selection. Not YOUR selection, not TFC Selection, not CS selection and most definately not Realism Selection.
i just figure bunnyhopping is an exploit because these are supposed to be humans. sure, real humans can jump or leap (run and jump), but they cant defy any laws of physics allowing them to get around faster. its just not realistic. and yes, i know aliens arent realistic, but were talking about regular 'ol humans here.
It's an exploit because it exploits the physics of the game in a unintended way. Especially in CS, it was never meant for someone to cross the map within a few seconds...and it's that way for every other MOD at the moment.
One thing that I'm worried about... I love to play skulk and jump at marines and if I miss/they dodge/don't die, I continue to jump around as not to be hit while I'm making a turn around. (Think like a plane does.)
I am worried that the BH removing will prevent me from doing this and will therefor make me dislike NS since I was not BHing but rather dodging. Same with CS. I dislike the fact that you go slower just because you jumped. Their BH removal code really screws up or slows down (it takes much longer to make it up serveral boxes with the BH removal coding) my jumping on to boxes and whatnot.
Hopefully NS's BH removal code will not be like CS's. I've read somewhere that the reason you go faster by jumping was because the air has almost none or no "air resistance" so therefor you don't lose speed, but the ground does have this resistance so thats why you lose speed if you mess up your BH.
As it's been said, it would mostly affect the marines who go *whizzing* through a map, reaching say a hive before any of the Skulks are close. It would NOT affect combat dodging and from what I understand it would be applicable more to the Marines. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
*edit* Nice sig Unknown, looks almost like Wing Zero, where'd u get it? custom
<b> I should be nicer so my post is taken seriously and not deleted.</b>
AGAIN, for some of you who still don't know what we're talking about here:
Bunnyhopping as in the way Marines can end up whizzing across a map by exploiting the physics code of the game engine <u>NOT</u> repeatedly jumping up and down while fighting with a skulk.
Anyone suggesting a stamina implimentation is talking about the latter while the topic of interest and discussion is the former.
The exploitative bunnyhopping is the one where they defy physics and end up bouncing across the map at an incredible rate of speed, NOT just simply repeatedly jumping while being attacked.
<!--QuoteBegin--JRock+Jan 15 2003, 01:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JRock @ Jan 15 2003, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bunnyhopping as in the way Marines can end up whizzing across a map<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Geez, people. ALIENS CAN BHOP TOO!!!!! You cannot cross the map in a few seconds. You can only go at 170% of your running max speed.
If going faster than your intended running speed is an exploit, then everyone that has jumped, or held forward and press strafed is an exploiter. Yes that's right, you gain speed simply by running and jumping.
Comments
Ummm . . . idiot :-P
I'm sorry but really, they've never had to train soldiers to dodge acid bombs, projectile poisonous gas, and itty bitty dogs biting out your knee caps . . . I'm also pretty sure they don't train people to chase down 8 foot tall fades with a knife
<b>no.</b>
I remember that scene but there was a distinct lack of bunnyhopping. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Congratualtions Ninja.....
YUO WIN TEH PRIEZ!!!111
Now if anyone would actually like to continue the discussion, instead of posting a review of saving private ryan, the thread might become a little more interesting.
<Post toned down - won't someone please think of the children!?>
It's roughly as weak an argument as complaining about bunnyhopping "because it looks silly" or making irrational comments regarding ferrets.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it isn't. Why? Becayse bunny hopping does look silly and has no business in a mod like this. "Running in straight lines like newbs" is immatieral and has no bearing at all.
<b>no.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If an alien with big teeth came charging at me I would hopefully (if I didn't stand still and wet myself <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) throw myself to get out of the way. Now it's pretty hard to hit the deck in NS due to the lack of command to do it but instead you can jump out of the way.
Real marines most likely dont jump around all the time but they sure as **** doesnt stand on their feet all the time.
I'm all for removing BH just like Flayra said but untill we get some more movements I think there is a need for jumping in combat.
The big problem with jumping in combat is more of an hitbox issue. Fix those (dont know how hard it is) and much of the problem of jumping marines will be gone.
Personaly when I'm playing skulk I allways jump for the torso. It avoids many of my problems.
when I'm playing skulk I allways jump for the torso. It avoids many of my problems.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good rule of thumb, although having to do so greatly limits your manouverability. Hitbox issues are something i would like to see addressed as well.
<b>no.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If real world physics worked the same way as they do in Halflife, then yes. We all know certain natural laws in the real world. We all know that you can't jump off an extremely high ledge and be able to walk after it, but you can do this in NS in the room outside the generator hive. We all know that if you rub your hands together they get warmer from friction. Just like the real world, Halflife has its own set of natural laws, or physics. Jumping causes you to gain speed. Arcing through the air causes you to gain speed. So combining these two movements would cause you to gain speed. It's just a refined use of the laws of HL physics the same way as a car's engine is a refined use of realworld physics like combustion. So yes, if you grew up in the HL world as a marine, they would have taught you these things, or you would have learned them already.
If I might continue, I guess humans are exploiters. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> We weren't meant to fly (note: lack of wings) but we do so through the use of airplanes. Our speed limit is roughly 25 mph running full sprint, but we break the speed cap every day on the commute to work. For those of you who say bhop is unnecessary and won't slow the game down, I guess the world wouldn't slow down if we took cars away eh? OMG EXPLOITS!! This is destroying the balance of the world. Birds are complaining that we are cheating, dogs are angry because we can go faster than them now. I hope a new patch comes out to fix this!
Bunny hopping has no place in an immersive and atmospheric teamplay oriented game such as NS. I would have nil objection in a fragfest such as Quake 3.
B-hopping in general is weird, and the hitbox issue just makes this as easy to exploit as the alien "skin-hacking" (aka issue fixed in 1.04)
I don't think you have any idea what you are talking about.
Personally, until a developer codes into their FPS evasive maneuvers with the complexity of games like Oni or Soul Calibur, I don't see why jumping to avoid an attack is so terrible. If you're sick of marines jumping over your bites, jump at them. A jumping skulk will hit a marine on the ground or in the air.
Bunnyhopping while moving backwards to get around the backpedal speed is an exploit, and (barring unforseen difficulties) will be dealt with in 1.1.
Flayra already stated that you will still be able to jump around and around and around.
Sound is one of the most important aspect of NS alerting you to nearby enemies via their footsteps.
What is going on right now as of 1.0x is that a marine can jump, then duck, then jump while ducking and just bounce around the map at WALKING speed OR FASTER while making absolutely NO SOUND. I can do this fairly well and I know 2 other people that can do this a whole lot better than me. THAT is the MAIN problem and it will be addressed in 1.1
Also, jumping around and going faster than the max running speed will also be addressed.
In 1.1 you will still be able to jump like a madman while a skulk is snapping at your heels, but what you can't do is outrun the skulk by BUNNYHOPPING away from him.
A very viable reason and one that should really be the only reason worth consideration is that whether it adds or detracts from gameplay. Obviously, enough people thinks it detracts, so Flayra is going to change it, and that's that. All other reasons are either personal or irrelevant. Of course, this is only my opinion =D
SPECULATION: From the gist of what Flayra is saying, I'm also guessing that you will no longer be able to jump, do a 180, shoot, and continue to jump backward at forward peddling speed. I'm guessing that he'll change it so that backpeddiling is back peddling whether you're jumping or not.
Flayra already stated that you will still be able to jump around and around and around.
Sound is one of the most important aspect of NS alerting you to nearby enemies via their footsteps.
What is going on right now as of 1.0x is that a marine can jump, then duck, then jump while ducking and just bounce around the map at WALKING speed OR FASTER while making absolutely NO SOUND. I can do this fairly well and I know 2 other people that can do this a whole lot better than me. THAT is the MAIN problem and it will be addressed in 1.1
Also, jumping around and going faster than the max running speed will also be addressed.
In 1.1 you will still be able to jump like a madman while a skulk is snapping at your heels, but what you can't do is outrun the skulk by BUNNYHOPPING away from him.
A very viable reason and one that should really be the only reason worth consideration is that whether it adds or detracts from gameplay. Obviously, enough people thinks it detracts, so Flayra is going to change it, and that's that. All other reasons are either personal or irrelevant. Of course, this is only my opinion =D
SPECULATION: From the gist of what Flayra is saying, I'm also guessing that you will no longer be able to jump, do a 180, shoot, and continue to jump backward at forward peddling speed. I'm guessing that he'll change it so that backpeddiling is back peddling whether you're jumping or not.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok.. there are several issues here that are getting munged and confused together...
Bunnyhopping, the exploit, is gaining (too much) speed by using a game engine bug. This is being dealt with.
Bunny *Bouncing* (as I call it) is the whole marine jumping up and down on the spot to avoid ankle biting skulks and is a different issue. I don't get the impression that this is being removed, nor would I like to see it, unless, of course, Flay gives us the ability to dive sideways, roll and come up shooting <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> No, it's not realistic.. but it's the best thing that can be done in the current game engine.
As for other issues, on backpedalling, silent movement etc etc, then I hope flay is going to apply backpedal speed to jumping as well to stop either of the above from increasing a players backward movement.
Personally speaking, I *love* DoD's stamina system (though I think the stamina usage is too high) as it adds a realism to the game while at the same time giving me a choice as to how I use my 'stamina' unlike CS's kludge which I abhor.
I'd love to see a marine stamina system + sprinting in there as well as the 'energy' for skulks being required for sprinting/jumping... it would totally change the gameplay on an individual level from simple Frag it![tm] to tactical. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
joev.
I played around with stealth hopping a bit more recently, and there's actually no reason you can't get full hop speed out of it. Which would be a tad faster than normal running speed while completely silent. All you forfeit over regular hopping is a degree of air control.
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I'd love to see a marine stamina system + sprinting in there
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Ok.... so consider this analogy. Bunnyhopping = sprint manouver, bunnyhopping speed limiter = stamina bar. After so many hops you hit the stamina limit and lose your speed. So basically what you want in the game is exactly what we've already got, except you want it simplified to the act of holding down a sprint key?
Do you believe bunnyhopping "totally changes the gameplay on an individual level from simple Frag it![tm] to tactical."? If not, what makes you think a sprint key would?
Uhm someone back up the clue train, he doesn't even know what bunnyhopping is (hint: it's not just jumping up and down a lot while being attacked).
Bunyhopping is the exploit where the game's physics code is exploited by using a certain combination of jumping, turning, and a couple other things to create a way for the player to fly across the map at an incredible speed to allow them to get to places much much faster than they normally could.
Sorry my definition is poor, but I want to make it clear what we're talking about here, which is NOT jumping up and down in combat.
<img src='http://www.abaddonsbelly.netfirms.com/bellybanner.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
I can't believe anyone else didn't see this really except for a few.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also if this is such a horrible cheat, why dosen't ANY of the TFC leagues outlaw bunny hop? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you guys read at the top of this webpage, but I was pretty sure it reads "Natural Selection" and <b>NOT</b> Aliens, <b>NOT</b> AvP2, <b>NOT</b> CS, <b>NOT</b> TFC, <b>NOT</b> Any other ****ing game, movie, or idea you might of EVER had in your life.
This is the game Natural Selection. It's <b>NOT</b> going to be TFC, it's <b>NOT</b> going to be Aliens, it's <b>NOT</b> going to be CS, DOD, or whatever comparison you can pull out from EITHER side of the argument's ***.
This is the Natural Selection Team's game, this is how they want it played, this is how they want the atmosphere preserved (which I may add TFC does NOT have), and most of all they want Natural Selection to... remain Natural Selection. Not YOUR selection, not TFC Selection, not CS selection and most definately not Realism Selection.
BHop should be limited, and the minimum time between jumps could be x MS/S so that all effects of the speed boost are lost.
Great post Msr. Evil
Play the game how it was meant to be played you scum. Bunnyhopping is a physics exploit, the programmers set your speed limit for a reason!
One thing that I'm worried about... I love to play skulk and jump at marines and if I miss/they dodge/don't die, I continue to jump around as not to be hit while I'm making a turn around. (Think like a plane does.)
I am worried that the BH removing will prevent me from doing this and will therefor make me dislike NS since I was not BHing but rather dodging. Same with CS. I dislike the fact that you go slower just because you jumped. Their BH removal code really screws up or slows down (it takes much longer to make it up serveral boxes with the BH removal coding) my jumping on to boxes and whatnot.
Hopefully NS's BH removal code will not be like CS's. I've read somewhere that the reason you go faster by jumping was because the air has almost none or no "air resistance" so therefor you don't lose speed, but the ground does have this resistance so thats why you lose speed if you mess up your BH.
*edit* Nice sig Unknown, looks almost like Wing Zero, where'd u get it? custom
AGAIN, for some of you who still don't know what we're talking about here:
Bunnyhopping as in the way Marines can end up whizzing across a map by exploiting the physics code of the game engine <u>NOT</u> repeatedly jumping up and down while fighting with a skulk.
Anyone suggesting a stamina implimentation is talking about the latter while the topic of interest and discussion is the former.
The exploitative bunnyhopping is the one where they defy physics and end up bouncing across the map at an incredible rate of speed, NOT just simply repeatedly jumping while being attacked.
Thanks, have a nice day, drive through.
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Geez, people. ALIENS CAN BHOP TOO!!!!!
You cannot cross the map in a few seconds. You can only go at 170% of your running max speed.
If going faster than your intended running speed is an exploit, then everyone that has jumped, or held forward and press strafed is an exploiter. Yes that's right, you gain speed simply by running and jumping.