X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jun 3 2003, 05:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 3 2003, 05:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Dread+Jun 3 2003, 01:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dread @ Jun 3 2003, 01:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I said there are several good moments but it gets old quickly. Or how else you explain those empty beta servers? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't make me give you my theory, it's not very nice.
Grendel has informed me that he has big plans under way for PT. So everyone sit quietly and give it some time; he's pretty trustworthy and bright, for a limey.
/me shakes fist at Britain and flings more tea into the harbor.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ohhhh, that's it *gets out large english gun* i cant think of one we did, but hey. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I thought things were running pretty well MonsE, but i guess not <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> I think things may need to be a bit different when Playtesting future versions.. Maybe choose Vets like Playtesters are chosen? that would reduce the risk of accidently having people like syn|borf on the team
Now, I've probably missed something, but are the topics in "Beta Information" the only feedback that comes via the forum? Is there a sekrat forum where feedback is also given or is that really all there is to it? I mean, it is a little sparse when you consider that you have over 200 people testing.
There are separate playtester and veteran forums, I believe. And the dev forum, who knows what goes on there... Beta information is just the few bits of info they choose to hand out to us, to keep us interested <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin---Driftwood-+Jun 3 2003, 05:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Driftwood- @ Jun 3 2003, 05:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Now, I've probably missed something, but are the topics in "Beta Information" the only feedback that comes via the forum? Is there a sekrat forum where feedback is also given or is that really all there is to it? I mean, it is a little sparse when you consider that you have over 200 people testing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My thoughts excactly. Most of the post I read there could hardly be concidered as 'constructive feedback'
Monse: Lemme guess! Ummm, it has something to do with major brain-malfunction and Vets?
It seems to me that one of the problems is the Vets, or the sheer number of them at least. The vast majority of NS match are pub play, yet it seems like you only have 20-30 players at the same level of skill and ideology about the game as the pubbers while you have 200+ clanners who are out to win the game in the quickest time possible. I wouldn't imagine that vets would like to slow down and try pub play, while most pub players don't want a 5-10 min game.(In may experiences at least.) I can understand that Vets help break the game mechanics quicker, so that we don't have anymore 1.04 jp/hmg tactics and its a good idea. However because they try and win as quick as they can they can probably get 3-4 games in the same time as it takes for 1 pub match. So I'm guessing that they tire of it quickly and then as they leave the other vets do too leaving an empty server. We all know how difficult it is to get an empty server full again. No one wants to play on their own, but no one goes into be the 1 person waiting.
It's a lot of stuff, not worth getting into. I'm not going to blame the vets in particular, there are tons of factors; some within our control, some not, some just being the vagaries of making a free game over the internet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Basically, don't worry your pretty little heads over it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's not very nice. If it wasn't for us, you wouldn't have...er...top hats. And what decent movie doesn't have an English villain in? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or wingtip collars!
And psshaw! Emperor Palpatine was played by Scotsman, you damned oppressing colonialist English swines!!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Omg there is no excuse for not PTing. You should be licking somebody's shoes for getting to PT. Empty Servers?
I, I....just don't understand. You have 1.1 and YOUR NOT PLAYING IT? I could care less about the bugs and imbalance. We're here waiting for 1.1 devouring any little bits of informations we can find gazing at screenshots for hours on end. And here we have people that have 1.1 and are no playing it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Elderwyrm+Jun 3 2003, 06:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Elderwyrm @ Jun 3 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Omg there is no excuse for not PTing. You should be licking somebody's shoes for getting to PT. Empty Servers?
I, I....just don't understand. You have 1.1 and YOUR NOT PLAYING IT? I could care less about the bugs and imbalance. We're here waiting for 1.1 devouring any little bits of informations we can find gazing at screenshots for hours on end. And here we have people that have 1.1 and are no playing it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Many people wanted Black and White more than anything, but when they got it, it was overhyped and it possibly couldn't meet the demands and dreams of those people. My advise: the less you wait 1.1, the better it's going to feel when you get it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Elderwyrm+Jun 3 2003, 06:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Elderwyrm @ Jun 3 2003, 06:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> gazing at screenshots for hours on end <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yes, speaking of screenshots....
<i>/me looks at MonsE</i>
please give the go ahead MonsE! its time for mucho 1.1 PR spammo <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Dread+Jun 3 2003, 01:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dread @ Jun 3 2003, 01:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Many people wanted Black and White more than anything, but when they got it, it was overhyped and it possibly couldn't meet the demands and dreams of those people. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but unlike B&W, 1.1 is going to be a game, with gameplay and everything.
I'm still angry at how B&W turned out. Molyneux could have done loads better (this guy masterminded Populous, Magic Carpet and Theme Park, for God's sake!)
Oh, and MonsE? Palpatine Schmalpatine. Anyone can act like an old man with a slur. Hell, that's me down to a "T". Christopher Lee? And then there's Alan Rickman, who is just awesome (as an Englishman, anyway). Sorry.
When I was in London they had to use Michael Richards (American) to play the evil brother when we saw Arsenic and Old Lace at The Strand. So , yyyyyeaaahhh, giddiup!
This is just out of curiosity, so please don't take this as a "make me a PT" post. To tell you the truth, I don't think I have enough time to dedicate to playtesting, so I would rather <b>not</b> playtest. But here it goes:
Problem: Not enough people are intelligently playtesting (or testing at all).
Fact: Many intelligent people that aren't playtesting would love to playtest.
What Would Seem Like A Solution: Select some people you know to be mature and intelligent from the list of people not playtesting, but willing to playtest, and fill up those servers!
Where do I go wrong? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin---Driftwood-+Jun 3 2003, 12:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-Driftwood- @ Jun 3 2003, 12:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Is there a sekrat forum where feedback is also given or is that really all there is to it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's called "Flayra's Den Of Iniquity". They sit there and post quotes from the General Discussion forum of people wanting 1.1, then each PT and Dev gets a chance to laugh and hurl insults.
We don't get to see this, for obvious reasons.
It's all rather cruel if you ask me.
I also believe they have a forum where they post nothing but pictures of their arses.
<!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jun 3 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jun 3 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I also believe they have a forum where they post nothing but pictures of their arses. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You havent been there? Lololo...oh wait, im not supposed to tell about that o_O
There's no "arse-forum" and there is nothing to see here...or there, which doesn't actually exist <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
OH PICK ME PICK ME!!! OH PLEASE PICK ME!!! Ok thanx I had to get that out. I feel much better now. I'm gonna go play some more NS 1.1a. Its the only version that's balanced. LOL!!!
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jun 3 2003, 02:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jun 3 2003, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When I was in London they had to use Michael Richards (American) to play the evil brother when we saw Arsenic and Old Lace at The Strand. So , yyyyyeaaahhh, giddiup! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It is kind of us to take you yanks under our wing from time to time in this fashion, don't you think? (;
How did this turn into a discussion about British and US people? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Dread+Jun 3 2003, 02:53 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dread @ Jun 3 2003, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--::esuna::+Jun 3 2003, 07:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::esuna:: @ Jun 3 2003, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I also believe they have a forum where they post nothing but pictures of their arses. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You havent been there? Lololo...oh wait, im not supposed to tell about that o_O
There's no "arse-forum" and there is nothing to see here...or there, which doesn't actually exist <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Infact, i didn't see this post either.
Vets aren't healthy the have as the only playtesters...
sure JP HMG was overpowered, but I mean you're not going to balance the game by continuing to knock the strategies that work. You have to make it so that even if one strat is better, it can be countered.
I too thought that 1.1 was going well, and I was excited to see that we were already to 1.1m. But I've noticed that the beta servers are empty more often than not. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->. Maybe as 1.1 draws near you could do one last final public beta and have everyone whack the bugs out for the last week and then release the final 1.1.
1.04 is getting funner though. I keep comming exciting games with non-kosher strats <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
civman...I didn't understand a word you said. Maybe it's just me, being the end of the day and all. Anyone else back me up on this? Translation of what he was trying to say?
I suppose the moral of this story might be that instead of looking for "veterans" for playtesting of later versions the devs and PTs might be better of looking for dedicated players, possibly taken from these forums or IRC via some kind of application process. I'll wager a lot of the PTs, forum admins, and IRC ops know who would be good to approach and who to avoid.
Sure the vets probably better for testing "pro-level" things, but the majority of NS is played on pubs for fun - I even saw a thread in which Nem was pointing that out in the Beta info forum - and so why not have "normal" players on the PT team?
edit: Ohhh, there's a whole other page in the thread I didn't see where people already said all this. Sorry.
Perhaps the dev team could start a screening server where number of connections/length of connections could be readily available statistics. The people participating the most would then be observed in game to make sure a.) they are not a pain in the tuccus or b.) whether they contribute in some way (intelligence or twitch wise). This could effectivly put you in a position where you would be comfertable with the people testing your game (time-put-in wise).
I understand that the current methods you employ to recruit testers worked for the 1.0x release, but I think that it has become necessary to enact some other way. The current vets/PT's, as I understand it, are quite inactive IN GAME. They may be active in IRC or the Forums, but you need GAMEPLAYERS, not social conversationalists (though vocality is required for debates on balance).
PS: This is not meant in ANY WAY to be a PT/vet bash, at all, so please do not construe it as such.
The_Real_QuasarHas the I.Q. of 12,000 P.E. TeachersJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 9998Members
The disadvantage is that Flay and the other team members can't do all their sekrat FBI stuff! A guy's gotta have some fun, right? <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Hahaha. 200 play testers and the 1.1 servers are empty.
some 100+ 1.0x servers and its hard to find a open spot.
See the irony? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--philmcneal+Jun 3 2003, 08:04 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (philmcneal @ Jun 3 2003, 08:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What exactly are the disadvantages of having a public playtest? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The disadvantages being that if you do a public test is that there's no surprises. And we don't want that. And if someone new comes to the game, grabs the "1.1dhie" file and goes into the game to find the marines have no legs and the skulks do 438512396 damage per bite, they're gonna be pretty annoyed with the devs for making it hideously unbalanced. Which isn't their fault.
The reason it's private is, for one reason at least, so all the bugs and exploits can be ironed out, so we can have the most enjoyable experience when it's finally released. And it also gives them the ability to keep things under their hats (Fade 3rd weapon anyone?) and give us a nice surprise at the end of it all.
The point of testing is to make the game fit for public consumption. I don't believe that public testing can do this.
Ok, so we're not perfect. I'm sorry guys but we do do other things. If you want to pay my salary I'd be more than happy to not go to my boring job every day and spend all day playtesting. I'm sure that most of the other vets would be happy for you to take their exams/ do their jobs/ etc. We're human.
We are dedicated too, these are the guys that are known for being good, and for finding exploits and things. If you were worried about jp/hmg being unbalanced, these are the guys that popularized it, if not found it. We don't play just to win; we play to have fun, and to maintain a completive attitude. Why would we keep playing if it wasn't fun? I personally have a blast playing, whether or not I'm in a scrim/match or not. It's not fair to say that we don't play for fun and are all about winning (well, at least not all of us. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I know there are empty servers, and that aren't people always playing, but I personally go home and try to play at least an hour whether or not I have other things I need to be doing (like working out student loans Ugh). Sure, there are personality conflicts too, but there haven't been that many for having 200 different people all trying to work together, have there? I know that one or two people do jump to mind, but you can't blame the whole group for the one, can you?
Now, not to be antagonizing or anything, but I personally see a lot more vets than pts playing most of the time. When I see a pt it's usually the same 3 guys too.
Please, don't get frustrated because 1.1 isn't out yet. It's a process and it takes a while. And don't get frustrated if you aren't a pt/vet, I know I was **** off (at myself) when I watched this game being pt'ed in the beginning (if only you had been an active poster instead of a lurker.... yeah right.), and I was **** off when my clan leader decided not to make me a vet the first time. I understand. It just doesn't do any good to get all up in arms about it.
[edit: heh sorry that was so long. Haven't had my caffiene yet this morning.]
Comments
Don't make me give you my theory, it's not very nice.
Grendel has informed me that he has big plans under way for PT. So everyone sit quietly and give it some time; he's pretty trustworthy and bright, for a limey.
/me shakes fist at Britain and flings more tea into the harbor.
<!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ohhhh, that's it *gets out large english gun* i cant think of one we did, but hey. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think things may need to be a bit different when Playtesting future versions..
Maybe choose Vets like Playtesters are chosen? that would reduce the risk of accidently having people like syn|borf on the team
My thoughts excactly. Most of the post I read there could hardly be concidered as 'constructive feedback'
Monse: Lemme guess! Ummm, it has something to do with major brain-malfunction and Vets?
I can understand that Vets help break the game mechanics quicker, so that we don't have anymore 1.04 jp/hmg tactics and its a good idea. However because they try and win as quick as they can they can probably get 3-4 games in the same time as it takes for 1 pub match.
So I'm guessing that they tire of it quickly and then as they leave the other vets do too leaving an empty server. We all know how difficult it is to get an empty server full again. No one wants to play on their own, but no one goes into be the 1 person waiting.
Edit: Added words and letters i missed out....
Basically, don't worry your pretty little heads over it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That's not very nice. If it wasn't for us, you wouldn't have...er...top hats. And what decent movie doesn't have an English villain in? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or wingtip collars!
And psshaw! Emperor Palpatine was played by Scotsman, you damned oppressing colonialist English swines!!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I, I....just don't understand. You have 1.1 and YOUR NOT PLAYING IT? I could care less about the bugs and imbalance. We're here waiting for 1.1 devouring any little bits of informations we can find gazing at screenshots for hours on end. And here we have people that have 1.1 and are no playing it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I, I....just don't understand. You have 1.1 and YOUR NOT PLAYING IT? I could care less about the bugs and imbalance. We're here waiting for 1.1 devouring any little bits of informations we can find gazing at screenshots for hours on end. And here we have people that have 1.1 and are no playing it <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Many people wanted Black and White more than anything, but when they got it, it was overhyped and it possibly couldn't meet the demands and dreams of those people. My advise: the less you wait 1.1, the better it's going to feel when you get it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
yes, speaking of screenshots....
<i>/me looks at MonsE</i>
please give the go ahead MonsE! its time for mucho 1.1 PR spammo <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah, but unlike B&W, 1.1 is going to be a game, with gameplay and everything.
I'm still angry at how B&W turned out. Molyneux could have done loads better (this guy masterminded Populous, Magic Carpet and Theme Park, for God's sake!)
Oh, and MonsE? Palpatine Schmalpatine. Anyone can act like an old man with a slur. Hell, that's me down to a "T". Christopher Lee? And then there's Alan Rickman, who is just awesome (as an Englishman, anyway). Sorry.
Problem: Not enough people are intelligently playtesting (or testing at all).
Fact: Many intelligent people that aren't playtesting would love to playtest.
What Would Seem Like A Solution: Select some people you know to be mature and intelligent from the list of people not playtesting, but willing to playtest, and fill up those servers!
Where do I go wrong? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
It's called "Flayra's Den Of Iniquity". They sit there and post quotes from the General Discussion forum of people wanting 1.1, then each PT and Dev gets a chance to laugh and hurl insults.
We don't get to see this, for obvious reasons.
It's all rather cruel if you ask me.
I also believe they have a forum where they post nothing but pictures of their arses.
You havent been there? Lololo...oh wait, im not supposed to tell about that o_O
There's no "arse-forum" and there is nothing to see here...or there, which doesn't actually exist <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
It is kind of us to take you yanks under our wing from time to time in this fashion, don't you think? (;
(I'm joking, in case anyone misunderstands me.)
You havent been there? Lololo...oh wait, im not supposed to tell about that o_O
There's no "arse-forum" and there is nothing to see here...or there, which doesn't actually exist <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Infact, i didn't see this post either.
sure JP HMG was overpowered, but I mean you're not going to balance the game by continuing to knock the strategies that work. You have to make it so that even if one strat is better, it can be countered.
I too thought that 1.1 was going well, and I was excited to see that we were already to 1.1m. But I've noticed that the beta servers are empty more often than not. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->. Maybe as 1.1 draws near you could do one last final public beta and have everyone whack the bugs out for the last week and then release the final 1.1.
1.04 is getting funner though. I keep comming exciting games with non-kosher strats <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sure the vets probably better for testing "pro-level" things, but the majority of NS is played on pubs for fun - I even saw a thread in which Nem was pointing that out in the Beta info forum - and so why not have "normal" players on the PT team?
edit: Ohhh, there's a whole other page in the thread I didn't see where people already said all this. Sorry.
I understand that the current methods you employ to recruit testers worked for the 1.0x release, but I think that it has become necessary to enact some other way. The current vets/PT's, as I understand it, are quite inactive IN GAME. They may be active in IRC or the Forums, but you need GAMEPLAYERS, not social conversationalists (though vocality is required for debates on balance).
PS: This is not meant in ANY WAY to be a PT/vet bash, at all, so please do not construe it as such.
200 play testers and the 1.1 servers are empty.
some 100+ 1.0x servers and its hard to find a open spot.
See the irony? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
-edit- Begins to stab people.
The disadvantages being that if you do a public test is that there's no surprises. And we don't want that. And if someone new comes to the game, grabs the "1.1dhie" file and goes into the game to find the marines have no legs and the skulks do 438512396 damage per bite, they're gonna be pretty annoyed with the devs for making it hideously unbalanced. Which isn't their fault.
The reason it's private is, for one reason at least, so all the bugs and exploits can be ironed out, so we can have the most enjoyable experience when it's finally released. And it also gives them the ability to keep things under their hats (Fade 3rd weapon anyone?) and give us a nice surprise at the end of it all.
The point of testing is to make the game fit for public consumption. I don't believe that public testing can do this.
C'mon guys, it wont be long now, i referr you to www.readyroom.org
so cool your jets and get ready to munch marine meat
We are dedicated too, these are the guys that are known for being good, and for finding exploits and things. If you were worried about jp/hmg being unbalanced, these are the guys that popularized it, if not found it. We don't play just to win; we play to have fun, and to maintain a completive attitude. Why would we keep playing if it wasn't fun? I personally have a blast playing, whether or not I'm in a scrim/match or not. It's not fair to say that we don't play for fun and are all about winning (well, at least not all of us. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> )
I know there are empty servers, and that aren't people always playing, but I personally go home and try to play at least an hour whether or not I have other things I need to be doing (like working out student loans Ugh). Sure, there are personality conflicts too, but there haven't been that many for having 200 different people all trying to work together, have there? I know that one or two people do jump to mind, but you can't blame the whole group for the one, can you?
Now, not to be antagonizing or anything, but I personally see a lot more vets than pts playing most of the time. When I see a pt it's usually the same 3 guys too.
Please, don't get frustrated because 1.1 isn't out yet. It's a process and it takes a while. And don't get frustrated if you aren't a pt/vet, I know I was **** off (at myself) when I watched this game being pt'ed in the beginning (if only you had been an active poster instead of a lurker.... yeah right.), and I was **** off when my clan leader decided not to make me a vet the first time. I understand. It just doesn't do any good to get all up in arms about it.
[edit: heh sorry that was so long. Haven't had my caffiene yet this morning.]