Yes I read the other posts. I still feel that it doesn't belong, in it's current incarnation. It isn't even accurate the way it is now. If marines move and fight in groups, luck decides who gets the kill if more than one marine is firing on an alien. Therefore, those who are excited by having high kill counts are encouraged to fight alone so they can get accurate kill counts. The same is true for aliens. It is counter intuitive™.
Take away scoreboard: Give the commander a list of his top players so he can identify who is good and can kill stuff.
Keep the scoreboard: Keep how many kills aliens get, but take away the deaths - So aliens will still jump into mines and not be so scared to attack marines on low health. Keep no scores for marines, like it is now. (My personal favourite.)
Show the scoreboard at the end: Use this but take away -1 death for using xenocide. Therefore people will attack more, not thinking so much about their score because they can't check it every 20 seconds. Take away -1 death for xenocide because if you use it a lot your score will be useless at the end but you won't know it.
I am a big propponent of the score board. But let me put it like this: Flayra can do whatever he wants with NS, and I won't leave because it doesn't have a scoreboard, and I doubt any one will. Let Flay do what he wants.
To make the scoreboard more functional (with assists and followed orders and such) would add needless network and server computational overhead. Additionally, removing uncessary scoreboard data saves network bandwidth over time. We are trying to reduce overhead, not increase it. We are also trying to finish the game, not delay its release.
That being said, everyone here can keep arguing until they're blue in the face, but Flayra does not like the K/D scoreboard system of most games, and what Flayra wants, Flayra does. I happen to agree with him, and can think of no games that both have a large amount of real teamwork as well as a kill-based pecking order. I sincerely doubt it will be changed for pub play. For Tourney mode, it is still on the list (although I think clan leaders would be far better advised to run Psychostats if they want meaningful sampled data, and not just stare at a K/D board. If that's the way to judge players, welcome to 'arse-kicked-by-more-intelligent-clans-in-league-play town' - population, YOU).
That is all. Carry on with the remainder of your discussion if you must.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i too think that the score board should go in. I like it, but i would NEVER play for a good score.. because every normal player knows that when he plays egoistic the team will lose.. he will lose.. its just a usefull indication of skill, nothing more<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is it an indication of skill??
This seems to be the heart of this argument.. because you kill 14 marines by waiting in a group and happening to be the one who chomped the last time doesn't show skill....
Even if you kill 4 skulks in a row.. that doesn't necessarily show skill..
I've had games that I've gone 16-2 and others I've gone 2-16 what does that prove?? I've played with the same skill each time.. but the situations I've found myself in change...
Now if every team you play on win for 10-12 games in a row and it's mostly due to your efforts.. That's a show of skill and one that's easily respected..
I'm sure people count how many people they will kill anyway, or just use status. If it's as easy to do that it seems pointless to take the scoreboard out.
Keep score of how many kills aliens get, but take away their deaths!!!!!! It will solve everythingggg. People talk about scores making aliens go rambo? What the hell do you think res per kill will do!?!
MonseE, this topic was moved here from beta dicussion... Therefore I'm guessing the dev team want our thoughts and there is a possibility it will change.
Yeh MonsE, you're being a right ninny, the forums are (amongst other things) to show Flayra what the community thinks so that he can then decide what it actually is that he wants for his game, or at least I hope Flayra takes note of our views before he makes his decisions.
For those of you who are still posting about scoreboards leading to less teamplay, which seems to be the only argument against the SB so far, I urge you to read what you are posting. Most of the threads go like this "Scoreboards are gonna encourage rambo's, I personally won't rambo but I'm sure everyone else will cos they want a nice score, I don't care what my score is".
You see where I'm going with this? You're all posting about other people doing something that you personally won't do, ALL OF YOU, what does this show us? That the vast majority of us would only use a scoreboard for friendly competition and not let it effect our gameplay, therefore what you are saying about NS players is NOT in accordance with the evidence shown on the forums.
If you honestly believe that a scoreboard will make everyone rambo then I don't think you're thinking it through too well, there are not many rambo's in NS, and like I said earlier, people who are good at ramboing are actually very good for the team, they buy the other rines time, distract the alien, interrupt alien expansion, and now they even get you res. Bad rambo's will be <i>dis</i>couraged to rambo as they will get a crappy score.
Uhh, smart guys, it was moved by a forum admin. I *am* a Dev. Trust me when I say the Dev's do not care what you think on this issue. I was trying to say this politely before, but now I'm saying it bluntly...
I put a little <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> face, meaning I was being cheeky, no need to replace my post you fascist!!! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 10 2003, 05:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 10 2003, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Trust me when I say the Dev's do not care what you think <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if the dev's dont want feedback, then why do we even need a forum ?
just post a download link on the front page, that should be enough, who cares what people think anyway.
As far as k/d using up network, I am no dev, but the kills/deaths are kept track of anyway, aliens' rank on the list is still based on k/d in 2.0 (not just kill) and at anytime you can see your kills with status, I somehow doubt displaying those numbers on a score board would affect network/cpu usage to a measurable degree. And I am not asking for a needless amount of coding or artwork, we are talking about adding in a feature that is currently in 1.04, and currently in 1.1 (tourney mode).
I was merely posting what I have observed; apparently there are still a lot of people who for whatever reason do not want their k/d known. I still don't see how it could possibly degrade the game play. I was posting about changing a seemingly mindless exclusion of the only individual score you have, not for myself (I am a skilled ns player in a top clan who will rarely pub once 2.0 is out) but for the new people that will come to ns and hope to have a good time and get better, people who grasp some sense of competition (if not with other players, with themselves) people like me when I first started playing ns. Instead they will just be cut off until they enter ns' the formal competitive scene, I don’t expect they would wait that long to stop playing though. Because it’s the skilled people that will eventually end up in the clans, those are the hardcore players that will keep driving NS to new heights, not some pub; it is those people who I am worried about.
But it appears you have no care or respect for these opinions, and I don’t want to get banned so I will leave it at that...
One thing that I think gets missed is that the kind of people that really care about their ratio to the point that they rambo to get "their kills" don't read forums. More likely the just don't read. I do not think these forums consist of the majority of the NS playing population. Therfore saying "most of the people that post here say X" is not a good sample of the general population.
The only problem with not having a scoreboard is it might make it a bit harder for the commander to track who are his best players, but a good commander is able to do this usually regardless.
If there ever was to be a scoreboard, I agree that it should not just show kills/deaths, it should only show points based on a system where players get points for accomplishing objectives, taking down enemy structures, following orders, building structures, and possibly a boosted system when they are in groups of 3 or more players. If you take down an enemy structure you get 1 point, but if you have a squad take down an enemy structure, they each get 2 points or something.
Obviously not as easy to implement, but ultimately more rewarding.
Havn't read past the first page, just thought I'd post an interesting irony in this all. The scoreboard (as most have agreed) makes players more conservative, and therefore less willing the toss themselves at obstacles such as TFs and Elec Nodes. This was one of the main backers on the topic of scoreboard removal. I just thought it was odd that this idea would then be disreguarded with regaurds to res for kills.
As a matter of fact, now that res for kills is in I think that displaying the Kill/Death ratios would help comms better outfit the 'breadwinners' of the team.
If you work as a teamplayer and arent the greatest your score won't be good. So what's the point of showing it off? At least make it only be kills on the left and points on the right ( orders you followed, structures built).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only problem with not having a scoreboard is it might make it a bit harder for the commander to track who are his best players, but a good commander is able to do this usually regardless.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> As I understand, the scoreboard is not getting totally wiped off. Why else would the dev team bother making the alien names actually say "skulk" instead of "skul?" But if you're not talking about that then it is not valid, commanders can't see a marine's K:D ratio in 1.0x.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If there ever was to be a scoreboard, I agree that it should not just show kills/deaths, it should only show points based on a system where players get points for accomplishing objectives, taking down enemy structures, following orders, building structures, and possibly a boosted system when they are in groups of 3 or more players. If you take down an enemy structure you get 1 point, but if you have a squad take down an enemy structure, they each get 2 points or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't beleive in points for killing structures, you would get points for doing almost anything that you would do normally. Then at the end you would have no idea why a certain person got "96" points. Getting a point for fulling a skulk full of lead is far more fulfilling that going to a waypoint and getting one. 1 point for 1 kill is simple and it's an easy way to see "who is possibly a good player." That is quoted because it is not always true, but a good indication.
[edit]Stung, my idea is: Keep score of how many kills aliens get, but take away their deaths. Keep marines scores how they are in 1.0x
To my earlier point, that people keep misunderstanding or having kneejerk reactions to: you can post all you want. you can discuss all you want. you can chat in these forums we provide you all you want. It doesn't always mean you'll get what you want. 20 people posting that they like scoreboards out of 17,000 forum members is not a meaningful sample. And I have my eye on you cal_fin. If you have a beef with me try a PM next time or I will remove you from this place forever.
...or Flayra can get annoyed at all ye whining and INCLUDE the K:D but randomize the numbers everytime you view it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
If this is not an option for server I guarentee you there will be a plug in for it with in a month of release. One of the things, that Flayra has mentioned was that he wanted someonth that did not have to be made a plug in for or a rule against. This is one of those things. Honestly its a nice idea not to have a scoreboard. But it is a little late for that. Look at how many times stats programs have been downloaded for servers. To actually implament this seems kind of unrealistic. Everyone knows that there will end up being a way around it. yes 20 people out of 17000 posting is not a valid point, but saying 1000 people viewed this nullifys that or even that 5000 people veiw the forums with in a week of there last view. Yes it is a teamplay enviorment, but everyone knows someon that is good at the game and a good team player that is bad at killing. I have cooper, I would chose him over 95 percent of people that can kill better than him. If peopel become concervative then the team loses. Already there are those poeple that f4 instead of die. They usually get kicked or banned. The point thing is worthless. Maybe a damage for every bite of damage you do. that way you get 400 for a D and like 90 for a skulk. Come on. There will always be console command status.
<!--QuoteBegin--Comprox+Jul 10 2003, 01:12 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Comprox @ Jul 10 2003, 01:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Killing is important in NS, but moreso is following orders. If I command, and order a group of marines to a hive, and some guy goes off and rambos, kills a few guys and then dies, he's useless to me, but his score is now 6-1... and that shows how his skill has improved how?
And as a server side option, like Nem said, a lot of stuff could be server side. But setting up a server would take an hour then, and it would create more a rift in servers "this server sucks, it doesnt have scores", which isnt good for a community IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> My thoughts right down to the core man.
1) If you are looking at the kills/death meter to find clanmates, then you are missing out on other important factors, like the guy who throws himself at a marine outpost 5-6 times and takes it down, or the guy who has chomped 3 enemy RT's.. and as other people have mentioned it's the little things that matter way more than the number of kills you have..
2) More teamwork doesn't necessarily mean more kills.. ESPECIALLY for you as an individual... 3 marines open fire, all 3 don't get the kills.. only one does.. Yes, you live longer and the chance for you to gain more kills since you stay alive longer but again you may not get ANY of the kills.. and then you wouldn't get invited to the really "elite" clans because you don't have the kill totals...
3) To decide who to give weapons to, as comm.. You see the entire board and know which groups of players have done the work and who deserve the weapons... I've guarded base for tonnes of teams and the fact that I did helped my team win.. The comms always offer me first weapons (I'm there and my job has been boring), and I always refuse.. Why?? Because the marines in the field have seen the danger and faced the enemy... I've killed 3 skulks in a pretty controlled environment (I have a solid wall at my back)
4) Scoreboards promote ramboing.. The "How can I be good if I don't have the highest number of kills" mentality is common especially for new players... How can you judge if you did good?? Did your team win?? If not, then it doesn't matter how good you were.. Your team didn't win.. Do you think any baseball player cares they went 4 for 4 if their team loses game 7 of the world series by 6 runs?? Of course not.. They only care that their team LOST...
Anyway time doesn't allow for more typing now.. Must get work done... GAH!!!!
my 2 cents <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank goodness for people like you man <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--MonsieurEvil+Jul 11 2003, 12:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Jul 11 2003, 12:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> To my earlier point, that people keep misunderstanding or having kneejerk reactions to: you can post all you want. you can discuss all you want. you can chat in these forums we provide you all you want. It doesn't always mean you'll get what you want. 20 people posting that they like scoreboards out of 17,000 forum members is not a meaningful sample. And I have my eye on you cal_fin. If you have a beef with me try a PM next time or I will remove you from this place forever. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you ban him he will only come back under a different name and e-mail <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<b>I don't think ramboing is a very important point here</b>. Maybe scoreboards do make some people rambo. What about res per kill? The people who rambo because of scoreboards will rambo more-so than ever in 2.0 because as said before they make the team res etc etc.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you ban him he will only come back under a different name and e-mail <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> V-MAN: I don't think I would, but let's keep this on topic.
Sure you would lol anyway, back on topic as you say. I think there should be no scoreboard at all and if there is one it should only show the team scores. There that's my 2 pennies worth <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm all for the scoreboard, it causes people to strive for success. If you don't get rewarded if you go out and kill half the alien team and knife a few of their RTs, then what is the purpose of doing so?
<!--QuoteBegin--Tiax-+Jul 10 2003, 07:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tiax- @ Jul 10 2003, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The only score that matters is the team score. If you dont' understand that then NS isn't the mod for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thank you for clearing that up Tiax-
...does anyone else have any constructive aurguments against score board? Would someone be willing to do a rebutal to the points made by others so far? I still dont understand it.
Comments
They both have factors that make them good.
Few suggestions, probably posted before too:
Take away scoreboard: Give the commander a list of his top players so he can identify who is good and can kill stuff.
Keep the scoreboard: Keep how many kills aliens get, but take away the deaths - So aliens will still jump into mines and not be so scared to attack marines on low health. Keep no scores for marines, like it is now. (My personal favourite.)
Show the scoreboard at the end: Use this but take away -1 death for using xenocide. Therefore people will attack more, not thinking so much about their score because they can't check it every 20 seconds. Take away -1 death for xenocide because if you use it a lot your score will be useless at the end but you won't know it.
That being said, everyone here can keep arguing until they're blue in the face, but Flayra does not like the K/D scoreboard system of most games, and what Flayra wants, Flayra does. I happen to agree with him, and can think of no games that both have a large amount of real teamwork as well as a kill-based pecking order. I sincerely doubt it will be changed for pub play. For Tourney mode, it is still on the list (although I think clan leaders would be far better advised to run Psychostats if they want meaningful sampled data, and not just stare at a K/D board. If that's the way to judge players, welcome to 'arse-kicked-by-more-intelligent-clans-in-league-play town' - population, YOU).
That is all. Carry on with the remainder of your discussion if you must.
How is it an indication of skill??
This seems to be the heart of this argument.. because you kill 14 marines by waiting in a group and happening to be the one who chomped the last time doesn't show skill....
Even if you kill 4 skulks in a row.. that doesn't necessarily show skill..
I've had games that I've gone 16-2 and others I've gone 2-16 what does that prove?? I've played with the same skill each time.. but the situations I've found myself in change...
Now if every team you play on win for 10-12 games in a row and it's mostly due to your efforts.. That's a show of skill and one that's easily respected..
Keep score of how many kills aliens get, but take away their deaths!!!!!! It will solve everythingggg. People talk about scores making aliens go rambo? What the hell do you think res per kill will do!?!
MonseE, this topic was moved here from beta dicussion... Therefore I'm guessing the dev team want our thoughts and there is a possibility it will change.
For those of you who are still posting about scoreboards leading to less teamplay, which seems to be the only argument against the SB so far, I urge you to read what you are posting. Most of the threads go like this "Scoreboards are gonna encourage rambo's, I personally won't rambo but I'm sure everyone else will cos they want a nice score, I don't care what my score is".
You see where I'm going with this? You're all posting about other people doing something that you personally won't do, ALL OF YOU, what does this show us? That the vast majority of us would only use a scoreboard for friendly competition and not let it effect our gameplay, therefore what you are saying about NS players is NOT in accordance with the evidence shown on the forums.
If you honestly believe that a scoreboard will make everyone rambo then I don't think you're thinking it through too well, there are not many rambo's in NS, and like I said earlier, people who are good at ramboing are actually very good for the team, they buy the other rines time, distract the alien, interrupt alien expansion, and now they even get you res. Bad rambo's will be <i>dis</i>couraged to rambo as they will get a crappy score.
if the dev's dont want feedback, then why do we even need a forum ?
just post a download link on the front page, that should be enough, who cares what people think anyway.
I was merely posting what I have observed; apparently there are still a lot of people who for whatever reason do not want their k/d known. I still don't see how it could possibly degrade the game play. I was posting about changing a seemingly mindless exclusion of the only individual score you have, not for myself (I am a skilled ns player in a top clan who will rarely pub once 2.0 is out) but for the new people that will come to ns and hope to have a good time and get better, people who grasp some sense of competition (if not with other players, with themselves) people like me when I first started playing ns. Instead they will just be cut off until they enter ns' the formal competitive scene, I don’t expect they would wait that long to stop playing though. Because it’s the skilled people that will eventually end up in the clans, those are the hardcore players that will keep driving NS to new heights, not some pub; it is those people who I am worried about.
But it appears you have no care or respect for these opinions, and I don’t want to get banned so I will leave it at that...
If there ever was to be a scoreboard, I agree that it should not just show kills/deaths, it should only show points based on a system where players get points for accomplishing objectives, taking down enemy structures, following orders, building structures, and possibly a boosted system when they are in groups of 3 or more players. If you take down an enemy structure you get 1 point, but if you have a squad take down an enemy structure, they each get 2 points or something.
Obviously not as easy to implement, but ultimately more rewarding.
As a matter of fact, now that res for kills is in I think that displaying the Kill/Death ratios would help comms better outfit the 'breadwinners' of the team.
As I understand, the scoreboard is not getting totally wiped off. Why else would the dev team bother making the alien names actually say "skulk" instead of "skul?" But if you're not talking about that then it is not valid, commanders can't see a marine's K:D ratio in 1.0x.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If there ever was to be a scoreboard, I agree that it should not just show kills/deaths, it should only show points based on a system where players get points for accomplishing objectives, taking down enemy structures, following orders, building structures, and possibly a boosted system when they are in groups of 3 or more players. If you take down an enemy structure you get 1 point, but if you have a squad take down an enemy structure, they each get 2 points or something.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't beleive in points for killing structures, you would get points for doing almost anything that you would do normally. Then at the end you would have no idea why a certain person got "96" points. Getting a point for fulling a skulk full of lead is far more fulfilling that going to a waypoint and getting one. 1 point for 1 kill is simple and it's an easy way to see "who is possibly a good player." That is quoted because it is not always true, but a good indication.
[edit]Stung, my idea is: Keep score of how many kills aliens get, but take away their deaths. Keep marines scores how they are in 1.0x
And as a server side option, like Nem said, a lot of stuff could be server side. But setting up a server would take an hour then, and it would create more a rift in servers "this server sucks, it doesnt have scores", which isnt good for a community IMO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
My thoughts right down to the core man.
1) If you are looking at the kills/death meter to find clanmates, then you are missing out on other important factors, like the guy who throws himself at a marine outpost 5-6 times and takes it down, or the guy who has chomped 3 enemy RT's.. and as other people have mentioned it's the little things that matter way more than the number of kills you have..
2) More teamwork doesn't necessarily mean more kills.. ESPECIALLY for you as an individual... 3 marines open fire, all 3 don't get the kills.. only one does.. Yes, you live longer and the chance for you to gain more kills since you stay alive longer but again you may not get ANY of the kills.. and then you wouldn't get invited to the really "elite" clans because you don't have the kill totals...
3) To decide who to give weapons to, as comm.. You see the entire board and know which groups of players have done the work and who deserve the weapons... I've guarded base for tonnes of teams and the fact that I did helped my team win.. The comms always offer me first weapons (I'm there and my job has been boring), and I always refuse.. Why?? Because the marines in the field have seen the danger and faced the enemy... I've killed 3 skulks in a pretty controlled environment (I have a solid wall at my back)
4) Scoreboards promote ramboing.. The "How can I be good if I don't have the highest number of kills" mentality is common especially for new players... How can you judge if you did good?? Did your team win?? If not, then it doesn't matter how good you were.. Your team didn't win..
Do you think any baseball player cares they went 4 for 4 if their team loses game 7 of the world series by 6 runs?? Of course not.. They only care that their team LOST...
Anyway time doesn't allow for more typing now.. Must get work done... GAH!!!!
my 2 cents <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank goodness for people like you man <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you ban him he will only come back under a different name and e-mail <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you ban him he will only come back under a different name and e-mail <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
V-MAN: I don't think I would, but let's keep this on topic.
...does anyone else have any constructive aurguments against score board? Would someone be willing to do a rebutal to the points made by others so far? I still dont understand it.