Aliens Can Not Win On Big Size Games
godzilla21
Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17022Members
Join Date: 2003-06-05 Member: 17022Members
<div class="IPBDescription">How is this fixed in 2.0?</div> It is almost impossible for aliens to win when team size is bigger than 10. On a game like 11vs11, I have rarely seen aliens win.
The are some factors why aliens can not win in a big size game.
1. Spawn Problem
Marines can have as many spawns as they like. This gives marines huge spawn advantage. Even more, marines have distress beacon.
When team size is big, it is not unusual that alien players are dead in more than half of the game time.
That is why marines can lock down 2 Hives easily without being annoyed by skulk attacks.
2. Resoruce Problem
The res that one alien gets is small when team size is big. When I was playing as an only Gorge on a 11vs11 game, what I could do before marines have jetpack was to build 1 res tower and 2 def chambers.
3. Gun is stronger than bite
This is a simple fact that no one can deny.
I believed Spawn problem be fixed by new move cham but acording to newest 2.0w information, move cham no longer gives faster spwan of a Hive.
Can anyone explain to me how this "team size problem" is fixed in 2.0 ?
The are some factors why aliens can not win in a big size game.
1. Spawn Problem
Marines can have as many spawns as they like. This gives marines huge spawn advantage. Even more, marines have distress beacon.
When team size is big, it is not unusual that alien players are dead in more than half of the game time.
That is why marines can lock down 2 Hives easily without being annoyed by skulk attacks.
2. Resoruce Problem
The res that one alien gets is small when team size is big. When I was playing as an only Gorge on a 11vs11 game, what I could do before marines have jetpack was to build 1 res tower and 2 def chambers.
3. Gun is stronger than bite
This is a simple fact that no one can deny.
I believed Spawn problem be fixed by new move cham but acording to newest 2.0w information, move cham no longer gives faster spwan of a Hive.
Can anyone explain to me how this "team size problem" is fixed in 2.0 ?
Comments
2) res system is changed as you obviously know.
3) learn to dodge? its not that hard. Besides their are other alien lifeforms besides bite.
overall, just wait up 2 weeks for 2.0. It's coming and you will get to see it first hand. Weither you are told now that it is fine or that is worse doesnt matter since you will still play it anyway. Hold your horses and wait to find out yourself. The game has overall changed to much to give simplistic comparisons such as this. 2.0 is a different game in many ways. Don't assume 1.04 carries over to 2.0
This is a simple fact that no one can deny. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and no. The LMG from a distance will totally pwn a Skulk, same with the pistol. But if you let a Skulk anywhere near you, you're dead, 3 bites to a stock marine and he's down. Charging a long corridor as a Skulk expecting to get near to even a stock marine is not a sensible nor easy thing to do, nine times out of ten you will die.
If you believe that the LMG is more powerful than a Skulk's bite, you're greatly mistaken, you just have to know how to use it.
creature with it can bath the marines in a lovely sunny glow....little do they relise fter a few secons they will soon turn bright pink...
Marines will have to go back to base to compair their "tans" and apply after sun, if marines lean against walls, tables or doors they will stick to them, only to peal off them with an ouch sound.
aliens could also have an upgrade "hand slap" "should that be claw? or hoof? where they can leave stinging hand marks on the back of aliens for bonus points.
NS :- Summer holliday(vacation for you yanks) could be comming soon.
This is a simple fact that no one can deny. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes and no.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Off course Gun is not always stronger than Bite.
What I mean is "in general".
Saying just about the frag, players of same skills will have a better frag when they are marines.
WOOTTT bite is an alien lifeform never knew that <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
My oh my, come on, I'll admit that a decently organised marine team will have slightly better odds in bigger games, but that's not the point!
The only thing that matters, the only thing that can really win you games is:
<b>TEAMWORK</b>
Anyone who fails to see that has obviously never came back from a very long game, where they lost hives, gained them, made the rines relocate, fought to the bitter end, and managed to win!
If you can't win, don't blame the game, change your approach! We all say we *know* that skulks in a group are stronger, but how many of us really do that in the early game, huh? On most pubs just a very few people actually do.
Trust me, both teams can always win, it depends on the team as a whole, not on individual skills or the fact that you have jaws and teeth instead of an lmg.
Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just a thought, but server admins shouldn't really be running server limits over 20 given the current state of the game.
Now then, come 2.0 and we'll all be trying to run 2 servers on our machines (and hopefully suceeding too) and we'll not see such large player counts (predicts mystic roob)
Roo
The spawn is another thing, and the guy who said your team shouldn't go around getting killed, on bigger games there are more deaths per minute, and probably more than proportionatly (it's harder to go around anywhere without running into an enemy) whilst marines can drop a 2nd ip relatively cheaply aliens can't and can lead to early inbalance. Not a big factor as far as I can tell, but it's not down to a simply crap team if that happens.
So yea, aliens loose big games more often, duh, marines are more likely to loose small games, simply NS is balanced for 5-8 players a team, join a game with differant numbers of players then balance it out with better playters on the disadvantaged team
Large Games can be balanced depending on the teams skill and Co-oP level.
It doesn't matter how many Marines you have on a team, if you have 6 Onos comming after your base with 2 Lerks and 4 Fades all working together like they should, 12 marines and the Turrets wont stand a chance.
Just as, if half the Aliens are Gorges putting up OCs a team of HA/HMGs will smoke them in no time!
As for the IP advantage and the Desstress becon, more Hives may not allow you to spawn faster (or do they?) but they give you more points to respawn at, so the marines need to spread out to get you. This can be an advantage to the Kharaa because an unorganized team would split up instead of moving from Hive to Hive as a team. The Desstress Beacon, only needs to be used when your being Owned, if you have to use it, it means your team is losing men really quickly!
I have played games where 1 hive was locked down and it took an hour for the aliens to finish us off, but all they needed to do was rush, something they weren't doing!
Balance depends alot on the skills of the players, if they work together, they can and WILL win the game.
WTH does it all really matter, 2.0 is 17 days away!
Although IIRC only 2 marines can be 'rein' at once, having more ip's reduces the amount of time for another marine to enter the spawn queue.
For the aliens, tech rate is coupled to hives rather than res, and the rate at which any one gorge gains resouces remains unchanged with more players until skulks start to max out on res.
This is a simple fact that no one can deny. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uhhmm... skulks can climb walls, are small, run fast, easy too hide, can run in vents :S
you could be the best skulk in the world, but that's useless until you get close enough to actually bite the marine
It is perfectly possible for aliens to win on big games as long as they have half a brain about deployment.
What occurs to me is that since the res model is so awful for the aliens, they should spend a lot of time securing res nodes, instead of screwing around rushing and making WoLs. If they concentrate on a Res grab, and then fight efficiently, they should have no problem hitting rines on a regular baisis.
you could be the best skulk in the world, but that's useless until you get close enough to actually bite the marine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The best skulks in the world simply don't get shot at. Stealth rules all...until motion tracking goes up.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm sure everyone is familar with the dramatic effect the teamsizes have on resources in 1.04. Nowadays in refined clanplay just 1 less player or 1 more player than the standard 6v6 size can completely turn the game on its head.
Well, the above still applies to 1.1. If you have an abnormally small or abnormally large number of players, the resource system will be completely out of whack. Be wary of drawing conclusions from marine or alien wins in anything other than the standard 6v6 teamsize. If you play all day with a new balance change and see nothing but marine wins, do take note of the teamsizes because 11v11 isnt even a contest.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
13 marines rushing alien spawn = gg aliens
need to remember when designing for public play design it as if every player is a totaly dumb **** with no clue whats so ever.
it's Public u can't go ooo they should have team work, it's public there won't be.
they should learn how to dodge, not every one is good / smart enough to do that.
use brains and out smart aliens, not every one has those.
i would really like to see a group of average players test 2.0 to see how it would work in a public enviroment.
13 marines rushing alien spawn = gg aliens
need to remember when designing for public play design it as if every player is a totaly dumb **** with no clue whats so ever.
it's Public u can't go ooo they should have team work, it's public there won't be.
they should learn how to dodge, not every one is good / smart enough to do that.
use brains and out smart aliens, not every one has those.
i would really like to see a group of average players test 2.0 to see how it would work in a public enviroment. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you think all the testers are elite mo fos (well they are now, but i know a few that werent) they all started out as average schmoes.
marines can no longer spawn camp a hive (unless its the whole marine team with shotguns, and even then its hard)
beleive you me, 2.0 is a totally different game, in a much better way.
:D
I suppose you're talking about the Vets. Although, sometimes I can hold my own against them.
:P