KenichiThis is not a pie.Join Date: 2002-11-01Member: 2941Members, NS1 Playtester
edited August 2003
there is a difference, i know what im talking about. That was civil btw. Terrible mood? yes because i see tons of people whining about 2.0 when in fact every arguement i have seen reverts to the issue of the game being out for not even a week and everyone acts like they know the game like the back of their hand. The game wont conform to fit them, they need to adapt to the game. No the game isnt perfect, buthe issues it has arent even closely related to what everyone has been complaining about.
Everyone seems to act like 1.0 was straight out a great release without any issues, when they forgot that it was the same exact way 2.0 is now. Games were long, players were new, and then, people complained about imbalances. Then when the patch came out days later and the "imbalances" were "fixed" it was found the game was even more imbalanced because the players who were too impatient to learn the game whined and complained to have the game conformed to them. In turn it hurt the game.
People here need to learn from past mistakes.
Secondly if any of you read flay's faq, there is a clear section that mentions NO BALANCE THREADS. The admins here are rather nice. They allow these threads to continue against the clearly written will of flay. For as long as the admins let these threads stay, then i will not agree to disagree, in fact i will argue every miniscule point that has to do with players simply not giving the community enough time to learn to play properly.
so i ask you, dont call me out for being uncivil, when in fact by calling me out in anyway, you have pulled the thread down and were uncivil.
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> Fade so far have been total unseen cause they arent so powerful now, but i say there nearly or stornger with theNEW and IMPROVED blink, thou having acid rocket teir 3 is kind of annoying it is such a strong TF killer that anything below teir 3 and it would be like 1.04 all over again. I love fade and it well balanced good attacks good skills and a good player makes a fade = to a HA/HMG anyday. if u all remember the old lerk in 1.04 it was so strong with 2 hive but now lerk become a real team player but only a few people really used a lerk in 1.04 Fade now the new lerk which need skill to use.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 5 2003, 07:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 5 2003, 07:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> - Web: What's the point of this? If I'm at full tech I shouldn't be on the defense. Have never seen a marine get stuck in web. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> hahahahahahahahahhahaha
I love the web. Thats like ... the best thing about the Gorge ...
I had so much fun with it on ... one of those damn new maps I <b>still</b> don't know the names to last night .. rofl
Ran into a shottie wanna be, he tried shooting me, I just jump and he missed me completely - only standing 3 feet away. I proceeded to web his **** and laugh the whole time I spit the level 3 shotgunner to death.
Webs absolutly rock for taking out rambo's and scouts. They're also wonderfull additions to a OC trap - better yet, one thats already cloaked.
Sensory is officialy my first chamber of choice as a Gorge. Scent of Fear plus the ability to let the marine pass me before I shoot 4 or so shots into his back, killing him, before he knows what happens is just too much fun. Not to mention I can tell when ever any marine get remotely close to me.
But, thats a different subject. Shoot, I forgot what this one was about ... lemme see ..
<!--QuoteBegin--Ollj+Aug 5 2003, 06:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ollj @ Aug 5 2003, 06:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3 hives do not mean the game is over. they did not in 1.04 and they meant it way less in 2.0 . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> 3rd hive did mean game was over in 1.04...
I agree that the alien endgame is a problem (where ARE the marines getting all those res? Just from kills and one res node?)
But I also don't see the aliens taking full advantage of the combos they need. Umbra/bilebomb is an obvious one I rarely see. Onos/umbra is another: I don't know why people are complaining about Onos being weak: they should be complaining that they aren't getting enough lerk support.
Chamber backup is important too. Oft overlooked is movement: to speed up spores and umbra and all other attacks. Def to heal, and maybe even sense to cloak those chambers. Obviously an in base seige makes these less effective, but really the aliens just need to have a place to run back to to heal up and be safe. Maybe it CANT be done with a good mix of aliens and chambers... but you know? I rarely see any alien team try.
Alien endgame is a problem because alien teams are all too busy going onos redeem/devour exploiting without DOING anything. Gorge bilebomb does massive amounts of damage to a TF and sacrificing yourself to get turrets is something I'm doing routinely and ending MANY a stalemate. The problem is aliens need to learn that onos alone will NOT DO ANYTHING. Onos by themselves are actually considerably useless against a TF spam/GL/SG horde. Lerks+Gorges+Fade+onos however do much better and wipe these farms out FAST.
Now we just need aliens to realise this <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'd say slightly boost the aliens 3rd hive abilities (Just slightly)
And nerf the high-tech marine ability.
Currently 3-hive vs. full tech marine will usually end with a marine win. It's rare that you win against marines when they start toting out the heavy armor.
Bile Bomb is very important as a hive 2 weapon, else it would be much harder to take down the locked hive 3.
Bile Bomb is best used right behind a full assault by fades/onos. They take care of the marines (and take the damage) and a couple of adrenaline gorges can reduce the base *very* quickly.
I think that the game mentioned above with all the nade spam was probably in Hera. Hera start is a real problem for endgames. Since part of it is up high and the doors both have corners right outside, it's very easy for the marines to hole up in it and just grenade/hmg spam the floor. However, there is at least one tactic that can be taken: Blink. Half the team go fade, half go lerk, the fades blink to the overhang, and the lerks fly in, spam umbra, and then probably die from grenades. The fades should be able to clean the clocks of the marines on the overhang, at least enough to shake them up, or take out a vital item like the arms lab.
That should be enough to break the stalemate, especially if you do it more than once. Fade blinking is sorely underused for stalemate lockdowns. I think it's partly because people don't realize that fades can FLY now. Super mario jumping is IN. Rocket spamming is so last release, man.
Sorry for not saying anything for so long time. I was sleeping, working, blah blah
Anyway here's a question: <b>Why should Kharaa endgame require anymore effort or teamwork from aliens than their early/midgame?</b>
When balancing a game like NS you must take account the human factor. We do not live in a perfect world and if people wont soon start playing together on pubs, we just can't sit here our thumb in our butt waiting for the explosions. We can't wait for pubs to start busting marine bases as a team 'only because it's possible'. We just have to balance it so that with moderate skilled Kharaa team it doesn't take ages to end the game.
You could as well give marines HMG and say "Well if alien team would just play perfectly together they would kick marine butt and that's why we think it's fine as it is...because it's possible"
Your(people who say there is nothing wrong with it) logic is a bit shady.
The point is: once a few Onoses and Fades charge/blink in and draw the majority of marine/turret fire, Skulks can xeno whoever they want and Gorges can bilebomb whatever they want. As long what you destroy exceeds the 1-3 res/kill the marines will get from each frag (not many aliens should die anyway), you're on your way to victory.
I personaly don't complain about imbalance. I complain about very very long pub games that last >2 hours, till marines or aliens quit or f4. and don't feel like playing another 2 hours game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway here's a question: Why should Kharaa endgame require anymore effort or teamwork from aliens than their early/midgame?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Here's another question: Why should the Kharaa endgame take any more effort or teamwork than the Marine endgame? They build a siege and are done with it.
I feel the problem of prolonged endgame is not going to go away completely even if the pubbers learn to do a full team effort. Even if it does go away, I feel it requires too much time and planning to fit into the big picture. If cracking a nut that is whole marine team, bunch of turrets and nade spam requires gorges building both def and mov outposts, lerks doing flawless umbra, onos sacrificing themselves, gorges doing flawless bilebombing and skulks making efficient xenocide runs, I'd say it's a bit too much requirements. It's also not just about the amount of teamwork it requires, it's about how much time it takes to take a basically ended game into the finish line. Even if all the pieces fall into place, endgame takes up a whopping part of the whole match.
I know, it's been only few days and so on, but judging from the current pub ability to crack marine bases and the things vets and pt's are proposing us to try, I'd say I'm not _completely_ off here. Stalemates are going to stay a problem and something that puts new players off. Also, they are something that hurts NS currently pretty badly. Playing 2.0 is considerably less fun when you find yourself in a stalemate very, very often. It'll ease with time, but by how much.
Like Dread said, why should endgame require more teamwork than early- or midgame? Granted, it may be that they require just as much teamwork and it's only the marines that haven't got their act together to propose a threat so big to warrant the need of all lifeforms working together. We'll see. Another thing that has been bugging me is that does the endgame require _a lot_ more teamwork from aliens than marines? Again, you don't see much endgame with aliens on the receiving end, but logically thinking it could be argued that the tools marines have are better suited for taking out alien encampments than vice versa. Maybe the balancing factor there is the alien ability to recover better than marines..
Point of the post: There are IMO possible problems with game flow, teamwork requirements and fun factor regarding endgame.
I don't know if anyone has suggested this but I'd like to see a boostage in the damage of the acid rockets or pushback added.
For damage, maybe something between 1.04 and 2.0?
A tactic I find less useful now is to acid rocket a couple HAs/group of marines, cause some splash damage to them, blink in and swipe. In 2.0 I'd rathar save my energy for swipes after I blink in.
<!--QuoteBegin--Dr. Awkward+Aug 5 2003, 10:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dr. Awkward @ Aug 5 2003, 10:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think that the game mentioned above with all the nade spam was probably in Hera. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I checked and it was ns_veil. 3 lvl 3 GLs spamming a doorway from a 30-40 degree angle (shooting 3 rounds before restocking at armory to avoid reload animation) will create a fiery wall of destruction so anything else except a lucky carapace/celerity skulk with leap wont get past (and a couple of those got shot in the air by sentries). In case aliens try to rush from one direction, every GLer will alter their fire so aliens will end up with 6 GLers spamming at them while fighting against a load of sentries. Also there were LA/LMG marines (4-5 of em), 5 IPs to keep us nicely reinforced and even a HMG or two (in 3 hours you get money for just about anything with just 1 RT). Besides, commander started building sentries even when we weren't totally outgunned by onos... I think in 3 hours with total map control and 3 hives they tried every trick there is to get us. I'm quite convinced that marines can, if they want, create an impenetrable fortress with sentries/sieges/GLs and cause a stalemate that will only end if other side surrenders. Hopefully it wont become a general "strategy" in 2.0.
<!--QuoteBegin--TickTock+Aug 6 2003, 07:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TickTock @ Aug 6 2003, 07:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> All of the last ditch strategies like this rely on the GL. Because it allows indirect fire. What if we allowed bile bomb to bounce off of walls...? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Indeed interesting solution but it doesn't do jack-crap about 3rd hive abilities that are often worse and less used than aliens other abilities. Also because Bile bomb doesn't do damage to marines, gorges would get butchered rather easily because they have to be in the front line in order to fire and marines can just move forward with their GL's or lmg rush the Gorge.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 5 2003, 10:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 5 2003, 10:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'd say slightly boost the aliens 3rd hive abilities (Just slightly) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You know, it's so simple but so true. I mean, I don't care about the endgame stalemates -- I find that they're often the most fun part of the game, from either side =P trying to repel waves of aliens, or trying to figure out a way to break in... but the wimpiness of 3rd hive skills bugs me. You get a 3rd hive, and the fade gets acid rocket -- 50 damage, wow, amazing. lerk gets primal scream, which lasts, like, a heartbeat. gorge gets web, so you can trap the marines in their little room which they're not trying to leave anyway, with a web they'll blow up with a GL. skulk gets xenocide, which lets the few skilled enough to use it right rush in and get a few kills and do some 1-shot damage to structures which will be respawned and repaired in seconds. onos gets charge -- great, an attack comparabe in power to his level 1 'cept it uses all his adrenaline. did I miss anyone? easy solution: raise damage of acid rocket, xenocide, and charge, raise duration of primal, make webs jam turrets or something like another poster suggested... I guess it would be risky to <i>over</i>power said attacks, because it's possible for the aliens to have 3 hives and for the res to be 50/50 between aliens and 'rines... but really, I wish there were a bigger incentive to use those 3rd hive skills.
someone mentioned aliens building support structures outside the marine base to quicken endgame, but most commanders will build siege turrets in that situation and ping the alien buildings which'll die in seconds...
games are too long and drawn out .. the aliens have lost the "end-game character" .. turret farming seems to be an initial objective for commanders now ..
i'm finding the balance alright within game .. i think changing Kharaa abilities to end the game would unbalance it too much ..
my thought is to give the aliens more health/armour points with each new hive above one .. this might shift the game from being more resource orientated though ..
also, yeh i have only used web once .. that was to web around a cloaked offence chamber ambush spot..
scent of fear is my favoured morph now ..
bare mind too .. i still don't think every player has got his/her tactics down straight yet, for either species ..
i blame it on the <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo-->
I posted in another older thread about this already, but I figured I would transfer this over. Against A bunch of turrets and a bunch of GL's on a two entrance base(caged, eclipse).
I find that people at end game are, for some ungodly reason, AFRAID to die?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Its crazy, as long as you own the map you can afforde to loss anything but the bigger classes. That said, this is my plan, it has not failed to end any endgame draw in under 4 minutes. And I mean NEVER fails, so far at least.
10 vs 10: 4 fades, 1 lerk 5 gorges. Those turrets are going to be the biggest problem for the fades. The lerk does a run with umbra spraying as the fades blink in to hit the GL's(this avoids A LOT of the explosion), then the 5 gorge gang runs in an bile bombs/webs everything non-stop. I see a lot of people saying webs are not a good 3rd hive ability...but man, they are what ends the game!!. Webs stop those pesy troops from moving or (IMPORTANT) firing those nasty GL's.
Now, I have no doubt that this may not work on the first wave, and once you(the aliens) start to take really large losses, go ahead and pull back with any surving fades. With any luck their base would have suffered some HA loses, and quite a few turret loses. This is the first part. Now, everyone should have pleny of res to go gorge again, and hopefully to go fade again. Now, just use xenocide to take the LA marines, and then do the same thing again.
It takes about 3-4 waves against 5 GL's, and 14 turrets. The fastest it has work against 4 GL's and 12 turrets was 1 wave, and 45 seconds to kill the base. Try it guys, and see what you think.
EDIT: I know that most people wont have res to go fade 3-4 times of course, so trade the fades out with leaping/xeociding skulks after the first wave.
NOTE: A single or duel onos push with charge "can" be effective, but I have yet to see it prove a really good base killing strategy. They are great for takeing a lot of the bullets though, so if you have an onos willing to die for the cause, have him come in during the bb gorge push, but after the fades.
Comments
Everyone seems to act like 1.0 was straight out a great release without any issues, when they forgot that it was the same exact way 2.0 is now. Games were long, players were new, and then, people complained about imbalances. Then when the patch came out days later and the "imbalances" were "fixed" it was found the game was even more imbalanced because the players who were too impatient to learn the game whined and complained to have the game conformed to them. In turn it hurt the game.
People here need to learn from past mistakes.
Secondly if any of you read flay's faq, there is a clear section that mentions NO BALANCE THREADS. The admins here are rather nice. They allow these threads to continue against the clearly written will of flay. For as long as the admins let these threads stay, then i will not agree to disagree, in fact i will argue every miniscule point that has to do with players simply not giving the community enough time to learn to play properly.
so i ask you, dont call me out for being uncivil, when in fact by calling me out in anyway, you have pulled the thread down and were uncivil.
If I've offended you, I apologize. What was stated above was merely the opinion of one insignificant schmuck.
hahahahahahahahahhahaha
I love the web. Thats like ... the best thing about the Gorge ...
I had so much fun with it on ... one of those damn new maps I <b>still</b> don't know the names to last night .. rofl
Ran into a shottie wanna be, he tried shooting me, I just jump and he missed me completely - only standing 3 feet away. I proceeded to web his **** and laugh the whole time I spit the level 3 shotgunner to death.
Webs absolutly rock for taking out rambo's and scouts. They're also wonderfull additions to a OC trap - better yet, one thats already cloaked.
Sensory is officialy my first chamber of choice as a Gorge. Scent of Fear plus the ability to let the marine pass me before I shoot 4 or so shots into his back, killing him, before he knows what happens is just too much fun. Not to mention I can tell when ever any marine get remotely close to me.
But, thats a different subject. Shoot, I forgot what this one was about ... lemme see ..
oh, yea ... 3rd Hive Abilities.
Um .. they're like .. good and stuff ..
they did not in 1.04 and they meant it way less in 2.0 .
a simple fact that makes this thread worth....
<img src='http://canopus.saao.ac.za/~wpk/gallery/signs/nothing.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
they did not in 1.04 and they meant it way less in 2.0 . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
3rd hive did mean game was over in 1.04...
But I also don't see the aliens taking full advantage of the combos they need. Umbra/bilebomb is an obvious one I rarely see. Onos/umbra is another: I don't know why people are complaining about Onos being weak: they should be complaining that they aren't getting enough lerk support.
Chamber backup is important too. Oft overlooked is movement: to speed up spores and umbra and all other attacks. Def to heal, and maybe even sense to cloak those chambers. Obviously an in base seige makes these less effective, but really the aliens just need to have a place to run back to to heal up and be safe. Maybe it CANT be done with a good mix of aliens and chambers... but you know? I rarely see any alien team try.
Now we just need aliens to realise this <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
And nerf the high-tech marine ability.
Currently 3-hive vs. full tech marine will usually end with a marine win. It's rare that you win against marines when they start toting out the heavy armor.
Bile Bomb is best used right behind a full assault by fades/onos. They take care of the marines (and take the damage) and a couple of adrenaline gorges can reduce the base *very* quickly.
That should be enough to break the stalemate, especially if you do it more than once. Fade blinking is sorely underused for stalemate lockdowns. I think it's partly because people don't realize that fades can FLY now. Super mario jumping is IN. Rocket spamming is so last release, man.
Anyway here's a question: <b>Why should Kharaa endgame require anymore effort or teamwork from aliens than their early/midgame?</b>
When balancing a game like NS you must take account the human factor. We do not live in a perfect world and if people wont soon start playing together on pubs, we just can't sit here our thumb in our butt waiting for the explosions. We can't wait for pubs to start busting marine bases as a team 'only because it's possible'. We just have to balance it so that with moderate skilled Kharaa team it doesn't take ages to end the game.
You could as well give marines HMG and say "Well if alien team would just play perfectly together they would kick marine butt and that's why we think it's fine as it is...because it's possible"
Your(people who say there is nothing wrong with it) logic is a bit shady.
I complain about very very long pub games that last >2 hours, till marines or aliens quit or f4. and don't feel like playing another 2 hours game.
Here's another question: Why should the Kharaa endgame take any more effort or teamwork than the Marine endgame? They build a siege and are done with it.
I know, it's been only few days and so on, but judging from the current pub ability to crack marine bases and the things vets and pt's are proposing us to try, I'd say I'm not _completely_ off here. Stalemates are going to stay a problem and something that puts new players off. Also, they are something that hurts NS currently pretty badly. Playing 2.0 is considerably less fun when you find yourself in a stalemate very, very often. It'll ease with time, but by how much.
Like Dread said, why should endgame require more teamwork than early- or midgame? Granted, it may be that they require just as much teamwork and it's only the marines that haven't got their act together to propose a threat so big to warrant the need of all lifeforms working together. We'll see. Another thing that has been bugging me is that does the endgame require _a lot_ more teamwork from aliens than marines? Again, you don't see much endgame with aliens on the receiving end, but logically thinking it could be argued that the tools marines have are better suited for taking out alien encampments than vice versa. Maybe the balancing factor there is the alien ability to recover better than marines..
Point of the post: There are IMO possible problems with game flow, teamwork requirements and fun factor regarding endgame.
For damage, maybe something between 1.04 and 2.0?
A tactic I find less useful now is to acid rocket a couple HAs/group of marines, cause some splash damage to them, blink in and swipe. In 2.0 I'd rathar save my energy for swipes after I blink in.
But maybe it's just me...
<!--emo&::fade::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/fade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='fade.gif'><!--endemo--> *<i>RaWR!</i>
I checked and it was ns_veil. 3 lvl 3 GLs spamming a doorway from a 30-40 degree angle (shooting 3 rounds before restocking at armory to avoid reload animation) will create a fiery wall of destruction so anything else except a lucky carapace/celerity skulk with leap wont get past (and a couple of those got shot in the air by sentries). In case aliens try to rush from one direction, every GLer will alter their fire so aliens will end up with 6 GLers spamming at them while fighting against a load of sentries. Also there were LA/LMG marines (4-5 of em), 5 IPs to keep us nicely reinforced and even a HMG or two (in 3 hours you get money for just about anything with just 1 RT). Besides, commander started building sentries even when we weren't totally outgunned by onos... I think in 3 hours with total map control and 3 hives they tried every trick there is to get us. I'm quite convinced that marines can, if they want, create an impenetrable fortress with sentries/sieges/GLs and cause a stalemate that will only end if other side surrenders. Hopefully it wont become a general "strategy" in 2.0.
Indeed interesting solution but it doesn't do jack-crap about 3rd hive abilities that are often worse and less used than aliens other abilities. Also because Bile bomb doesn't do damage to marines, gorges would get butchered rather easily because they have to be in the front line in order to fire and marines can just move forward with their GL's or lmg rush the Gorge.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, it's so simple but so true. I mean, I don't care about the endgame stalemates -- I find that they're often the most fun part of the game, from either side =P trying to repel waves of aliens, or trying to figure out a way to break in... but the wimpiness of 3rd hive skills bugs me. You get a 3rd hive, and the fade gets acid rocket -- 50 damage, wow, amazing. lerk gets primal scream, which lasts, like, a heartbeat. gorge gets web, so you can trap the marines in their little room which they're not trying to leave anyway, with a web they'll blow up with a GL. skulk gets xenocide, which lets the few skilled enough to use it right rush in and get a few kills and do some 1-shot damage to structures which will be respawned and repaired in seconds. onos gets charge -- great, an attack comparabe in power to his level 1 'cept it uses all his adrenaline. did I miss anyone? easy solution: raise damage of acid rocket, xenocide, and charge, raise duration of primal, make webs jam turrets or something like another poster suggested... I guess it would be risky to <i>over</i>power said attacks, because it's possible for the aliens to have 3 hives and for the res to be 50/50 between aliens and 'rines... but really, I wish there were a bigger incentive to use those 3rd hive skills.
someone mentioned aliens building support structures outside the marine base to quicken endgame, but most commanders will build siege turrets in that situation and ping the alien buildings which'll die in seconds...
games are too long and drawn out ..
the aliens have lost the "end-game character" ..
turret farming seems to be an initial objective for commanders now ..
i'm finding the balance alright within game .. i think changing Kharaa abilities to end the game would unbalance it too much ..
my thought is to give the aliens more health/armour points with each new hive above one .. this might shift the game from being more resource orientated though ..
also, yeh i have only used web once .. that was to web around a cloaked offence chamber ambush spot..
scent of fear is my favoured morph now ..
bare mind too .. i still don't think every player has got his/her tactics down straight yet, for either species ..
2 gorges will end any kind of stalemate quickly. Even faster with Umbra supoprt. Faster still with Fade and/or Onos support.
ffs.
Problem could be solved by editting some maps, but I didn't want to make that suggestion.
EDIT: My current 2 favorite classes are gorge and lerk. I use bilebomb and umbra frequently.
-_-
Against A bunch of turrets and a bunch of GL's on a two entrance base(caged, eclipse).
I find that people at end game are, for some ungodly reason, AFRAID to die?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> Its crazy, as long as you own the map you can afforde to loss anything but the bigger classes. That said, this is my plan, it has not failed to end any endgame draw in under 4 minutes. And I mean NEVER fails, so far at least.
10 vs 10: 4 fades, 1 lerk 5 gorges. Those turrets are going to be the biggest problem for the fades. The lerk does a run with umbra spraying as the fades blink in to hit the GL's(this avoids A LOT of the explosion), then the 5 gorge gang runs in an bile bombs/webs everything non-stop. I see a lot of people saying webs are not a good 3rd hive ability...but man, they are what ends the game!!. Webs stop those pesy troops from moving or (IMPORTANT) firing those nasty GL's.
Now, I have no doubt that this may not work on the first wave, and once you(the aliens) start to take really large losses, go ahead and pull back with any surving fades. With any luck their base would have suffered some HA loses, and quite a few turret loses. This is the first part. Now, everyone should have pleny of res to go gorge again, and hopefully to go fade again. Now, just use xenocide to take the LA marines, and then do the same thing again.
It takes about 3-4 waves against 5 GL's, and 14 turrets.
The fastest it has work against 4 GL's and 12 turrets was 1 wave, and 45 seconds to kill the base. Try it guys, and see what you think.
EDIT: I know that most people wont have res to go fade 3-4 times of course, so trade the fades out with leaping/xeociding skulks after the first wave.
NOTE: A single or duel onos push with charge "can" be effective, but I have yet to see it prove a really good base killing strategy. They are great for takeing a lot of the bullets though, so if you have an onos willing to die for the cause, have him come in during the bb gorge push, but after the fades.