<!--QuoteBegin--Mr.KNifey+Aug 6 2003, 12:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.KNifey @ Aug 6 2003, 12:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens aren't much fun for me. I only have fun on aliens as a support player(gorge/lerk) Skulk isn't any fun for me. I'd much rather help the entire team than be a selfish ****bite.
Which is why I like marines more. Everything you do on marines helps the team. You kill stuff, your TEAM gets res. You build stuff, your TEAM benefits. I like teamplay more than rambo stuff.
....of course....The Specialists Beta 2.0 is SO MUCH FUN. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Same with me
I like beeing able to help the team by beeing a support unit like a gorg/lerk/comm/welder/builder.
Though comming is scary <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Too much pressure for me
I still find the game fun, just less so, LOL @ saying i am a flamer whiner hater or troll, i am one of the few who actually liked NS 1 enough to give the devs money so they could continue the game production.
I also believe the devs should go on holiday for ages and relax away from NS land.
I find the new Jetpacks fun, i got one and never dies after that, they are immensely useful and counter anything other than gorges and lerks. Altho previously lerk was my favourite alien lifeform, they have totally spoiled it, they left in spores, even tho noone who plays marine like them, and removed the skill aspect of bite, (I used primal scream, it still has the teeth on the V model, hint hint metamodders <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) another fun thing was paralisis, gone, devour isnt fun, but if u charge then imediatey stomp you kill the marine instantly, nomatter what he has, Gone is the fades skill blink, instead we get benny hill fade (who i might add i still get stuck with) gone is the skill of leaping then changing to bite (no not thro a script, just by pressing the 1 key) although xenoxide then imediately leap, that kills alot.
Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. Why on earth would you encourage them. Hunting for fellow humans controlling marines/aliens is fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--Mr.KNifey+Aug 6 2003, 05:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Mr.KNifey @ Aug 6 2003, 05:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens aren't much fun for me. I only have fun on aliens as a support player(gorge/lerk) Skulk isn't any fun for me. I'd much rather help the entire team than be a selfish ****bite.
Which is why I like marines more. Everything you do on marines helps the team. You kill stuff, your TEAM gets res. You build stuff, your TEAM benefits. I like teamplay more than rambo stuff.
....of course....The Specialists Beta 2.0 is SO MUCH FUN. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Woah, excellente my dear marine.
The only reason Im finding Aliens much more fun as of now, is the lack of TEAM SPIRIT in my Marine experiences. In most pub games, marines are BOUND to suck ****, therefore either the comm gives up in frustration, or the people other than the comm go eject and employ their "tactics". Is tfac in the base no longer a nub thing to do? I'm seeing it more and more everyday, and in 1.04 thats usually something to be frowned upon, but now...its a welcomed strategie. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
It might take time for the new people to adjust to Marine tactics, until then, I'll stick with the Aliens.
Personally i think what kills the largest proportion of the fun is the fact that sensory chambers cloak moving alien players. Cloaking buildings is a fine addition and makes sensory useful but cloaking moving players is a bit lame. Cloaking non-moving players that don't have cloak is fine, but moving players hacks me off when i get rushed and i know they are coming because i can hear them but can't see them.
No fun. Agree completely. No more intense action-filled dynamic strategical battles.
Cloacking is too strong, the moving objects should not be cloacked, as sensories themselves. No (effective) countermeasures.
Devour. An ultimate weapon which requires no skill using it and (effectively) kills ANY opponent from 1 touch. There were no such powerful weapons in NS before. No counter weapon.
Acid rocket moved for fades, making it most boring/useless class before 3 hive. As some suggested on the ns forums, "fade can get inside marines' base and blink there in all directions to distract marines". What a fun way to "fight"! :'(
JP/HMG rush is MORE difficult to prevent with <3 hives.
Well I am so disappointed that I am not going to play it any more. At least not until they fixed it.
<!--QuoteBegin--White Kite Fauna+Aug 6 2003, 11:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (White Kite Fauna @ Aug 6 2003, 11:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Devour. An ultimate weapon which requires no skill using it and (effectively) kills ANY opponent from 1 touch. There were no such powerful weapons in NS before. No counter weapon. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Cost of Onos is almost twice that of any possible marine upgrades. Therefore, Onos should completely own any one marine. Besides which, considering how big and bulky an Onos is, getting one touch can be quite tricky - stomp does help a lot though.
The counter is for your team mates to kill the Onos. Ok redemption makes that a bit akward, but that is being addressed, and a few shotgun blasts work pretty well.
tankefuglOne Script To Rule Them All...Trondheim, NorwayJoin Date: 2002-11-14Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--QuoteBegin--DeepShadows+Aug 6 2003, 04:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeepShadows @ Aug 6 2003, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://mobianwarrior.tripod.com/monster/main.html' target='_blank'>Read "Monster."</a> It's my unofficial 1.04 to 2.0 transition fiction. When you're done with that, send me money and build a shrine in my honor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
<!--QuoteBegin--White Kite Fauna+Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (White Kite Fauna @ Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No more intense action-filled dynamic strategical battles.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I see a lot of those in 2.0, much more than in 1.04.
<!--QuoteBegin--White Kite Fauna+Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (White Kite Fauna @ Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cloacking is too strong, the moving objects should not be cloacked, as sensories themselves. No (effective) countermeasures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No effective countermeasures? Scan seems to work, as do observatories.
<!--QuoteBegin--White Kite Fauna+Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (White Kite Fauna @ Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acid rocket moved for fades, making it most boring/useless class before 3 hive. As some suggested on the ns forums, "fade can get inside marines' base and blink there in all directions to distract marines". What a fun way to "fight"! :'(<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Boring? Acid spamming in 1.04 was boring. Fighting in melee combat is definitely not boring. The 2.0 Fade is effective if you know how to use it.
Heh I think in White Kite Fauna we have someone who doesnt like change. there were no dramatic and intense battles in 1.04, unless you call a marine shooting a hive while 3 skulks desperatly try to para him to death dramatic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
However memorys are what we want them to be, I always think i want to play an RPG called Morrowind because i remember it being so much fun, however when i actually do it usually takes around 5 minutes for me to get bored.
But even so... point by point
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cloacking is too strong, the moving objects should not be cloacked, as sensories themselves. No (effective) countermeasures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As was mentioned, observatorys allow you to scanner sweep an area to uncloak all cloaked enemies. On top of this there is motion tracking. One possible suggestion which i may try and post when were allowed again, is a hand held scanner, possibly a second weapon that works in a similar way to an obs, providing a short ranged decloaking device.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Devour. An ultimate weapon which requires no skill using it and (effectively) kills ANY opponent from 1 touch. There were no such powerful weapons in NS before. No counter weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about shooting the Onos? Devour works on single marines however if your in squads which you ultimatly should be, it is fairly useless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acid rocket moved for fades, making it most boring/useless class before 3 hive. As some suggested on the ns forums, "fade can get inside marines' base and blink there in all directions to distract marines". What a fun way to "fight"! :'( <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are now more combat orientated and more fun for most people. No longer can you spam an acid rocket everywhere and get a kill. Most people usually get stealth upgrades such as cloaking and silence and use the fade to take down passing marines. I actually got alot of kills last night by waiting near Hera Entrance and Reception on ns_hera, just waiting for marines to go past before i killed them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->JP/HMG rush is MORE difficult to prevent with <3 hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pardon? Theyre called Lerks and Offensive Chambers.
SuBAusNS Forum AdminJoin Date: 2003-02-18Member: 13723Members
You know what I find un-fun? JP + HMG rushes 90% of the time... exactly the same order for upgrade chambers EVERY SINGLE GAME... a two hive "we're ****" mentality by the marines... the same old boring relocations... the number of 'uber kill' weapons that had no serious counters... basically, a TOTAL lack of ANY strategy or variation in the gameplay at all.
Sure, 2.0 needs some getting used too... sure some minor things <i>might</i> need a tiny bit of tweaking for pub play. But I can tell you for sure I would NOT go back to the fixed gameplay of 1.04.
i think i spot one of them 'OMG I NEED TO BE CONTROVERSIAL' posts. entirely stupid comment to make.
to the last few points that have been made-
i think mt SHOULD get nerfed by the snorrys. preserving the logic of the way the game entities interract is big thign (i think). make gameplay more intuitive, and it allows for easier balancing in the long run, becasue you can think about things in a 'real' way rather than a more contrived one.
thats mostly why i think v2 is a nice step forward.
i think the weapons-remain-on-the-ground-forever paradigm needs adding tho- no reason why it shouldnt work CS style (real style). simply let the aliens eat them (get soem res back ? just a little tho......)
very small change, but might beef the marines up that little bit thats needed.
and ffs Mr flayra PLEASE deal with the shooting...shooting....WTH! why am i now holdign a welder!?!??!.....weapon change...*chomp* "aaargh"......
ill send u a tenner. (sterling- ya know, a real currency <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I didn't find 1.04 very fun at all. Well, I <i>used to,</i> but towards the end, it was a pain in the ****. Everybody on both teams was struggling to min-max the process, using every dirty trick in the book to try and get the upper hand. Servers even all had their own ways of changing gameplay, trying to amke the game more balanced or fair, but usually just making the killer tactic for that server different.
I find 2.0 a lot more entertaining, and more interesting, because gameplay is less scripted, and you never know whether you're going to see four onoses coming around that corner or two lerks, a gorge and a fade.
Marines seem to be having a hell of a time on public servers, though, so obviously the game needs to be rebalanced. I recently read that the game was perfectly balanced for a while, but booring, so then they made a bunch of changes 2 weeks before the release date of 2.0 to make the game faster and more exiting. Unfortunately, it seems like whatever they did screwed the balance, so now they need to beta test it all over again.
I miss Nancy, and I wish the original author would at least give the go-ahead to all those folks talking about trying to remake it. But I find the new maps entertaining enough that I can live without Nancy.
A nice, 4-foot long katana to cut up all the little doggies and diseased SCs you find with style!
Then, you'd see all these marines running around trying to do some major kendo upon skulk butt.
(I'm just messing with random ideas, so yeah <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
<!--QuoteBegin--[SuB]+Aug 6 2003, 12:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([SuB] @ Aug 6 2003, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You know what I find un-fun? JP + HMG rushes 90% of the time... exactly the same order for upgrade chambers EVERY SINGLE GAME... a two hive "we're ****" mentality by the marines... the same old boring relocations... the number of 'uber kill' weapons that had no serious counters... basically, a TOTAL lack of ANY strategy or variation in the gameplay at all.
Sure, 2.0 needs some getting used too... sure some minor things <i>might</i> need a tiny bit of tweaking for pub play. But I can tell you for sure I would NOT go back to the fixed gameplay of 1.04. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> funny you say that about the upgrade chambers, when unless i put DC or MC first, we get SC then MC then DC every game, gg on that one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
edited August 2003
Lots of people seem to think this that or the other thing has some super ability/weapon/trait etc. Everything has a counter. If you dont think so you probably havnt played enough yet. If you have played for a long time, guess what? 2.0 is a different game. Things take time to learn.Rome wasnt built in a day.
Thats why there are so many LOOOONG games. The sides when used properly (teamwork) are so even they cancel each other out. Thats why people are seeing so many,many stale mates in 2.0. If your really losing Im willing to bet its b/c half your team wasnt cooperationg or just bad luck.
Team needed players to take a key point and they were repelled leading to a loss later on. big deal. Crap happens. War is hell. It doesnt mean that its an unbalanced aspect. 2.0 was playtested far too extensivly for that. Im sure if something is THAT unbalanced it would have become quite obvious to Flayra and friends. If you recall there were how many 1.1 versions? 1.1A, 1,1B, 1.1C.... I tihnk it got past R at a point. 1.1 Was repeatedly changed and corrections made in the process. ' <b><i>For those that dont know. 1.1 was what nsv2.o was previously called but they changed it soo many times to better balance/tweak it that renamed it to 2.0</i></b> Flayra isnt out to make a crapy game people. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
No strat is 100% winnable and situations that work fine at one time may do horrendous the next time. In the meantime.
Onos? = Get shot guns, even a standard no upgrade shot gun will bring down an onos.
Cloaked Skulks?= MT
Cloaked buildings? Scanner sweep/ Observatories. Notice how aliens build little SC with a fwe OCS and maybe a DC up around the map? Marines can do it too with an OBs and some turrets.
Webs in your way?= Weld them.
Heavy armour got you down?= Devour and Redemption.
Turret Farm in your way?= 1 bile bomb Gorge, One lerk with umbra. No bile bomb? One Onos bulldoser with umbra support.
For both sides You may have noticed how Sentry turrets and OCs now aquire targets A LOT faster then in earlier versions. They are also more accurate.
Electrifed Res node? Onos with regeneration. No onos? Get a gorge to heal spray a skulk.
<!--QuoteBegin--DeepShadows+Aug 6 2003, 10:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DeepShadows @ Aug 6 2003, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <a href='http://mobianwarrior.tripod.com/monster/main.html' target='_blank'>Read "Monster."</a> It's my unofficial 1.04 to 2.0 transition fiction. When you're done with that, send me money and build a shrine in my honor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Id love to read it, but why on earth is it dark green text and black? Its not exactly the most readable thing in the world.
We know all the counters, the main problem is at the time the second hive goes up, the marines simply have not got the tech level to counter a full assault of onos lerk skulks fade and a few gorges, the gorges bile and heal, the lerks umbra, the onos takes out the marines with the skulks and fades as backup (this can be done before the marines even get an upgraded armoury, if the gorges are intelegent and bile the IPs first, the game is over 2-3 minutes after the 2nd hive is up about 8 minutes into the game, ALTHOUGH i have not seen this strat work if sensory is used. The thing about the publics is the overuse of the SC, MC, DC upgrade order, if all chambers are viable, why have that order all the bloody time <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
This topic was not about balance, it was about fun. Balance is an issue flayra himself has said isnt perfect because they imbalanced it so it would be fun again, i cant remember the topic, but i remember it being said.
*edit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=41193' target='_blank'>here it is</a>
The reasons i have posted in this topic are why i hate the public game of 2.0 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> same over and over, and yes if clan players are on, we change the order.... I go marine often on publics for these reasons too, and that i find alien is a tad easy atm.
The order i have posted has been from many many servers, not simply "purely public" in clan games we use MC and DC as these are still the best first two, altho the order varies.
<!--QuoteBegin--::gc.philleh::+Aug 6 2003, 04:20 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (::gc.philleh:: @ Aug 6 2003, 04:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ive got a fix for you! play a lerk! Tell me what the fun was in marines jp/hmg rushing every game? Jetpacks were originally designed to allow marines to access vents and other 'hidden' sections of the map. Like webs they became too powerfull. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try getting to the top of powersilo useing the current jetpacks, or getting up to that nice vent... its impossibly hard and hardly worth 15 resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.
Have they changed? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you even been playing NS?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but perhaps youd be more comfortable with quake <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats silly, he was simply showing his opinion to the new patch. Besides I see no references to quake style gameplay in his post. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ive got a fix for you! play a lerk! Tell me what the fun was in marines jp/hmg rushing every game? Jetpacks were originally designed to allow marines to access vents and other 'hidden' sections of the map. Like webs they became too powerfull. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try getting to the top of powersilo useing the current jetpacks, or getting up to that nice vent... its impossibly hard and hardly worth 15 resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.
Have they changed? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you even been playing NS?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> but perhaps youd be more comfortable with quake <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats silly, he was simply showing his opinion to the new patch. Besides I see no references to quake style gameplay in his post.
When SC's first got their area cloaking effect, that's all we used too, to be honest. Every game was cloaking. The thing is, the novelty WILL wear off, and you will start playing with MC and DC. Clans have already started doing this.
For those of you complaining about the SC being able to move cloaked
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>SCAN. IS IT THAT HARD</span> Just say, "COM, could I get a scan here?". Done. It's a hard counter. It works Every Single Time you do it. (Bonus point for just going buck-wild with the GL though. It's more frightening.)
For those of you complaining about the 1 hit leap+bite thing, what are you talking about? I do it often. Maybe the timing is different or something, but it definatly still works extremely well.
Turret factories are easily broken. Bilebomb with back up. GG turrets.
In 1.04 you could sit in base, get res from 1 node, tech up to HMG/JP and easily win. Now you can't. I really don't see how it was fun to try and defend against quickly flying marines that spat out death quickly and effortlessly.
(I still have fun with all of the things that you seem to have a problem with, along with several things that you think don't even work anymore. Give it some time before you start saying "OMG LEAP SUX@!", because it doesn't.)
Comments
Skulk isn't any fun for me. I'd much rather help the entire team than be a selfish ****bite.
Which is why I like marines more. Everything you do on marines helps the team. You kill stuff, your TEAM gets res. You build stuff, your TEAM benefits. I like teamplay more than rambo stuff.
....of course....The Specialists Beta 2.0 is SO MUCH FUN. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same with me
I like beeing able to help the team by beeing a support unit like a gorg/lerk/comm/welder/builder.
Though comming is scary <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> Too much pressure for me
I also believe the devs should go on holiday for ages and relax away from NS land.
I find the new Jetpacks fun, i got one and never dies after that, they are immensely useful and counter anything other than gorges and lerks. Altho previously lerk was my favourite alien lifeform, they have totally spoiled it, they left in spores, even tho noone who plays marine like them, and removed the skill aspect of bite, (I used primal scream, it still has the teeth on the V model, hint hint metamodders <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) another fun thing was paralisis, gone, devour isnt fun, but if u charge then imediatey stomp you kill the marine instantly, nomatter what he has, Gone is the fades skill blink, instead we get benny hill fade (who i might add i still get stuck with) gone is the skill of leaping then changing to bite (no not thro a script, just by pressing the 1 key) although xenoxide then imediately leap, that kills alot.
The game is fun, but not as fun, comprende?
Here's a newsflash: building turret farms is not fun, nor is killing them. Why on earth would you encourage them. Hunting for fellow humans controlling marines/aliens is fun.
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As far as im concerned this is where fun died. what the hell did you guys bring turrets and ocs back for?
Skulk isn't any fun for me. I'd much rather help the entire team than be a selfish ****bite.
Which is why I like marines more. Everything you do on marines helps the team. You kill stuff, your TEAM gets res. You build stuff, your TEAM benefits. I like teamplay more than rambo stuff.
....of course....The Specialists Beta 2.0 is SO MUCH FUN. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Woah, excellente my dear marine.
Here, have a trophie!
<img src='http://www.itfwheelchairtennis.com/images/competitions/wtc/trophy.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
The only reason Im finding Aliens much more fun as of now, is the lack of TEAM SPIRIT in my Marine experiences. In most pub games, marines are BOUND to suck ****, therefore either the comm gives up in frustration, or the people other than the comm go eject and employ their "tactics". Is tfac in the base no longer a nub thing to do? I'm seeing it more and more everyday, and in 1.04 thats usually something to be frowned upon, but now...its a welcomed strategie. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
It might take time for the new people to adjust to Marine tactics, until then, I'll stick with the Aliens.
I'd show some more team spirit if my friggin mic didn't die.
Cloacking is too strong, the moving objects should not be cloacked, as sensories themselves. No (effective) countermeasures.
Devour. An ultimate weapon which requires no skill using it and (effectively) kills ANY opponent from 1 touch. There were no such powerful weapons in NS before. No counter weapon.
Acid rocket moved for fades, making it most boring/useless class before 3 hive. As some suggested on the ns forums, "fade can get inside marines' base and blink there in all directions to distract marines". What a fun way to "fight"! :'(
JP/HMG rush is MORE difficult to prevent with <3 hives.
Well I am so disappointed that I am not going to play it any more. At least not until they fixed it.
Cost of Onos is almost twice that of any possible marine upgrades. Therefore, Onos should completely own any one marine. Besides which, considering how big and bulky an Onos is, getting one touch can be quite tricky - stomp does help a lot though.
The counter is for your team mates to kill the Onos. Ok redemption makes that a bit akward, but that is being addressed, and a few shotgun blasts work pretty well.
ns without teamplay isnt fun . so look 4 a team and stop whining ...
6 days after the release i only saw 1 marineteam playing really good ....
btw im really scared about what people post here ....
sens | obs
onos | shoti / jp
bilebomb | think when u place ur turrets
ha | devour
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
That was great! Really!
I see a lot of those in 2.0, much more than in 1.04.
<!--QuoteBegin--White Kite Fauna+Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (White Kite Fauna @ Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cloacking is too strong, the moving objects should not be cloacked, as sensories themselves. No (effective) countermeasures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No effective countermeasures? Scan seems to work, as do observatories.
<!--QuoteBegin--White Kite Fauna+Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (White Kite Fauna @ Aug 6 2003, 06:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acid rocket moved for fades, making it most boring/useless class before 3 hive. As some suggested on the ns forums, "fade can get inside marines' base and blink there in all directions to distract marines". What a fun way to "fight"! :'(<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Boring? Acid spamming in 1.04 was boring. Fighting in melee combat is definitely not boring. The 2.0 Fade is effective if you know how to use it.
However memorys are what we want them to be, I always think i want to play an RPG called Morrowind because i remember it being so much fun, however when i actually do it usually takes around 5 minutes for me to get bored.
But even so... point by point
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cloacking is too strong, the moving objects should not be cloacked, as sensories themselves. No (effective) countermeasures.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As was mentioned, observatorys allow you to scanner sweep an area to uncloak all cloaked enemies. On top of this there is motion tracking.
One possible suggestion which i may try and post when were allowed again, is a hand held scanner, possibly a second weapon that works in a similar way to an obs, providing a short ranged decloaking device.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Devour. An ultimate weapon which requires no skill using it and (effectively) kills ANY opponent from 1 touch. There were no such powerful weapons in NS before. No counter weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about shooting the Onos? Devour works on single marines however if your in squads which you ultimatly should be, it is fairly useless.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Acid rocket moved for fades, making it most boring/useless class before 3 hive. As some suggested on the ns forums, "fade can get inside marines' base and blink there in all directions to distract marines". What a fun way to "fight"! :'( <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fades are now more combat orientated and more fun for most people. No longer can you spam an acid rocket everywhere and get a kill. Most people usually get stealth upgrades such as cloaking and silence and use the fade to take down passing marines. I actually got alot of kills last night by waiting near Hera Entrance and Reception on ns_hera, just waiting for marines to go past before i killed them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->JP/HMG rush is MORE difficult to prevent with <3 hives.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pardon? Theyre called Lerks and Offensive Chambers.
Sure, 2.0 needs some getting used too... sure some minor things <i>might</i> need a tiny bit of tweaking for pub play. But I can tell you for sure I would NOT go back to the fixed gameplay of 1.04.
I don't really know, it's what I've seen....really big changelog
The GL. GO NUTS!
i think i spot one of them 'OMG I NEED TO BE CONTROVERSIAL' posts. entirely stupid comment to make.
to the last few points that have been made-
i think mt SHOULD get nerfed by the snorrys. preserving the logic of the way the game entities interract is big thign (i think). make gameplay more intuitive, and it allows for easier balancing in the long run, becasue you can think about things in a 'real' way rather than a more contrived one.
thats mostly why i think v2 is a nice step forward.
i think the weapons-remain-on-the-ground-forever paradigm needs adding tho- no reason why it shouldnt work CS style (real style). simply let the aliens eat them (get soem res back ? just a little tho......)
very small change, but might beef the marines up that little bit thats needed.
and ffs Mr flayra PLEASE deal with the shooting...shooting....WTH! why am i now holdign a welder!?!??!.....weapon change...*chomp* "aaargh"......
ill send u a tenner. (sterling- ya know, a real currency <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
I find 2.0 a lot more entertaining, and more interesting, because gameplay is less scripted, and you never know whether you're going to see four onoses coming around that corner or two lerks, a gorge and a fade.
Marines seem to be having a hell of a time on public servers, though, so obviously the game needs to be rebalanced. I recently read that the game was perfectly balanced for a while, but booring, so then they made a bunch of changes 2 weeks before the release date of 2.0 to make the game faster and more exiting. Unfortunately, it seems like whatever they did screwed the balance, so now they need to beta test it all over again.
I miss Nancy, and I wish the original author would at least give the go-ahead to all those folks talking about trying to remake it. But I find the new maps entertaining enough that I can live without Nancy.
An upgrade so you can purchase KATANAS!
A nice, 4-foot long katana to cut up all the little doggies and diseased SCs you find with style!
Then, you'd see all these marines running around trying to do some major kendo upon skulk butt.
(I'm just messing with random ideas, so yeah <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Speaking from a wealth of experience from gaming online since Doom2 and Duke3d (go go 33.6kbps fax modem!) all i have to say is shush.
All of that is your own personal opinion, and a lot of us are having fun with 2.0.
Sure, 2.0 needs some getting used too... sure some minor things <i>might</i> need a tiny bit of tweaking for pub play. But I can tell you for sure I would NOT go back to the fixed gameplay of 1.04. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
funny you say that about the upgrade chambers, when unless i put DC or MC first, we get SC then MC then DC every game, gg on that one <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Thats why there are so many LOOOONG games. The sides when used properly (teamwork) are so even they cancel each other out. Thats why people are seeing so many,many stale mates in 2.0. If your really losing Im willing to bet its b/c half your team wasnt cooperationg or just bad luck.
Team needed players to take a key point and they were repelled leading to a loss later on. big deal.
Crap happens. War is hell. It doesnt mean that its an unbalanced aspect. 2.0 was playtested far too extensivly for that. Im sure if something is THAT unbalanced it would have become quite obvious to Flayra and friends. If you recall there were how many 1.1 versions? 1.1A, 1,1B, 1.1C.... I tihnk it got past R at a point. 1.1 Was repeatedly changed and corrections made in the process.
'
<b><i>For those that dont know. 1.1 was what nsv2.o was previously called but they changed it soo many times to better balance/tweak it that renamed it to 2.0</i></b>
Flayra isnt out to make a crapy game people. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
No strat is 100% winnable and situations that work fine at one time may do horrendous the next time.
In the meantime.
Onos? = Get shot guns, even a standard no upgrade shot gun will bring down an onos.
Cloaked Skulks?= MT
Cloaked buildings? Scanner sweep/ Observatories. Notice how aliens build little SC with a fwe OCS and maybe a DC up around the map? Marines can do it too with an OBs and some turrets.
Webs in your way?= Weld them.
Heavy armour got you down?= Devour and Redemption.
Turret Farm in your way?= 1 bile bomb Gorge, One lerk with umbra. No bile bomb? One Onos bulldoser with umbra support.
For both sides You may have noticed how Sentry turrets and OCs now aquire targets A LOT faster then in earlier versions. They are also more accurate.
Electrifed Res node? Onos with regeneration. No onos? Get a gorge to heal spray a skulk.
If anyone has any other nice counters please add.
<a href='http://mobianwarrior.tripod.com/monster/main.html' target='_blank'>Read "Monster."</a> It's my unofficial 1.04 to 2.0 transition fiction. When you're done with that, send me money and build a shrine in my honor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Id love to read it, but why on earth is it dark green text and black? Its not exactly the most readable thing in the world.
This topic was not about balance, it was about fun. Balance is an issue flayra himself has said isnt perfect because they imbalanced it so it would be fun again, i cant remember the topic, but i remember it being said.
*edit <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=41193' target='_blank'>here it is</a>
The order i have posted has been from many many servers, not simply "purely public" in clan games we use MC and DC as these are still the best first two, altho the order varies.
Ive got a fix for you! play a lerk! Tell me what the fun was in marines jp/hmg rushing every game? Jetpacks were originally designed to allow marines to access vents and other 'hidden' sections of the map. Like webs they became too powerfull.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try getting to the top of powersilo useing the current jetpacks, or getting up to that nice vent... its impossibly hard and hardly worth 15 resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.
Have they changed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you even been playing NS?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
but perhaps youd be more comfortable with quake
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Thats silly, he was simply showing his opinion to the new patch. Besides I see no references to quake style gameplay in his post. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
Ive got a fix for you! play a lerk! Tell me what the fun was in marines jp/hmg rushing every game? Jetpacks were originally designed to allow marines to access vents and other 'hidden' sections of the map. Like webs they became too powerfull.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Try getting to the top of powersilo useing the current jetpacks, or getting up to that nice vent... its impossibly hard and hardly worth 15 resources.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Gone is the challenge of using shotguns. It's child's play now.
Have they changed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you even been playing NS?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->To see how commanding has lost fun, look no further than the hassle of scanning.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
but perhaps youd be more comfortable with quake
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats silly, he was simply showing his opinion to the new patch. Besides I see no references to quake style gameplay in his post.
For those of you complaining about the SC being able to move cloaked
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'>SCAN. IS IT THAT HARD</span>
Just say, "COM, could I get a scan here?". Done. It's a hard counter. It works Every Single Time you do it. (Bonus point for just going buck-wild with the GL though. It's more frightening.)
For those of you complaining about the 1 hit leap+bite thing, what are you talking about? I do it often. Maybe the timing is different or something, but it definatly still works extremely well.
Turret factories are easily broken. Bilebomb with back up. GG turrets.
In 1.04 you could sit in base, get res from 1 node, tech up to HMG/JP and easily win. Now you can't. I really don't see how it was fun to try and defend against quickly flying marines that spat out death quickly and effortlessly.
(I still have fun with all of the things that you seem to have a problem with, along with several things that you think don't even work anymore. Give it some time before you start saying "OMG LEAP SUX@!", because it doesn't.)