F4 Good Or Bad?
Ganja
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10038Members
Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 10038Members
I don't do it myself but recently many people I know have started complaining about people F4'ing from the game because they are losing one said
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its just a game, so don't be a poor sport and F4, then make up some crap excuse that "the marines were taking to long to kill us," or "most of our guys were AFK anyway." Let it be known that I am now recording every game I play, so if I do see you F4ing, Cracker Jack Mack will be getting a call from everyone's favorite Mexican...me.
NS is a fun game, so keep it that way. Don't be a pansy and F4. Just take it like a man (or woman where it applies).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And others agreed with him but I put it to you as I put it to them . . . NS IS A GAME
It is meant to be enjoyed by all, and getting repeatedly killed because of overwhelming circumstances is not fun for anyone
On another note this is why they removed the score counters from NS in my opinion, because the game is meant to be WON, its not about getting the best kill count or death count, its about winning the game, once you've proven you're superior and the other team quits then you have done just that, you have won the round at which point you can start a whole new game that may end up the same way or it may end up being an evenly stacked game that takes 3 hours and is fun as hell(1/100)
Either way F4ing is fine in my opinion, whats your take on it?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its just a game, so don't be a poor sport and F4, then make up some crap excuse that "the marines were taking to long to kill us," or "most of our guys were AFK anyway." Let it be known that I am now recording every game I play, so if I do see you F4ing, Cracker Jack Mack will be getting a call from everyone's favorite Mexican...me.
NS is a fun game, so keep it that way. Don't be a pansy and F4. Just take it like a man (or woman where it applies).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And others agreed with him but I put it to you as I put it to them . . . NS IS A GAME
It is meant to be enjoyed by all, and getting repeatedly killed because of overwhelming circumstances is not fun for anyone
On another note this is why they removed the score counters from NS in my opinion, because the game is meant to be WON, its not about getting the best kill count or death count, its about winning the game, once you've proven you're superior and the other team quits then you have done just that, you have won the round at which point you can start a whole new game that may end up the same way or it may end up being an evenly stacked game that takes 3 hours and is fun as hell(1/100)
Either way F4ing is fine in my opinion, whats your take on it?
Comments
When I posted that in the CO Forums, I meant that F4'ing because you don't wanna "officially" lose is bad. When I am playing a game, I don't wanna have people F4, because I wanna play a game, practice strats, and have some fun. When people F4, it angers me, I go into "Mexican Rage" mode, and end up stop playing for a while. If you are commiting to a game, then play it to the end. This ain't Risk! (I have never fully played a game of Risk, everyone always ends up quitting when I play...hence the connection)
If you would like to see the origional post that started this, click<a href='http://forums.covertoral.com/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=469' target='_blank'>here</a> for the link.
And which one of those things is disturbed by ending a stale endgame?
Your strat will have played through already, if they're in such a horrific position that there's no chance of winning.
The game is essentially over, with only paperwork left to be signed.
There is little fun left for either team, imho, as you're essentially chewing up cannon fodder, and they're essentially being chewed while trying unsuccessfully to bite heavies to death.
There's a difference between newbie F4ing because they "think" wrongly that the game is lost, and a really, truly lost game where the marines have both hives and their base and the double res, each with 50 turrets, and are walking towards your last hive with heavies but camping outside rather than killing you.
Its not the ending stalemates that is the problem. I'm all for F4 then. The problem is with the alien teams starting to lose alittle hope, then they go a F4'ing away.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We play games to have fun. If it's not fun, why play? Blame the players all you want, in the end, it's the games fault.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, if you have read my post on the other forum, you would have saw the basketball game analogy. If you are playing a game, and the other team quits, the basketball game has gone from fun to no fun. And if this happens repeatedly, then it gets old fast, you get mad at the people who quit, and basketball is no longer fun to you. Its the same concept.
To all of you that F4/disconnect at the first sign of loss, please get a life. And let the rest of us play like decent human beings.
Alpha
funny. I F4 because I have a life, a wife and kids and I don't want to waste my time in a stale endgame.
Don't get me wrong, I only F4 if I see no chance for a comeback...
Several instances in which I wholehartedly agree to its use:
1) Marines have aliens bottled up in their last hive, control the map yet do not come in to destory the hive. this gets boring and very frustrating.
2) Aliens sit in the nearly destroyed marine base waiting to devour every marine that spawns in.
3) Pretty much any other instance of frustrating and hopeless gameplay. For example, a huge frustrating stalemate where both sides become bored; It's time to f4 and get a new map.
It's stupid to expect people to sit around and get their butts kicked when the game is already over. I don't even see why people would complain about F4ing. The game is won; there is no more challenge, just the 'thrill' of beating up on disadvantaged opponents. The weak player is the one who wants to continue such a pointless game, not the person F4ing.
For example, from a marines standpoint, if the aliens are truly trying to finish the game but the marines push them back, that's just fine and f4 isnt needed. However, when the aliens sit outside your base, get a bunch of o's and d's, and while lerks spore you, onos rush out, devour and run off constantly...f4 is needed if no attemt to end the game is made.
If the marines are rushing your hive, getting phase gates outside, but you interrupt them, f4 is bad. If the marines get turrets, and phases at every single rt on the map while you're stuck in your hive, F4.
It is the simple fact that humans feel they must win all the time. The people who F4 when they see a hint of failure are the weak players who cannot overcome this instinct. By sitting there and taking the capping and not F4'ing, proves they are the superior players. If the marines win, let them finish the aliens off. The aliens always finish the marines off, so why not the other way around.
...and Mr. Mojo, do you not know how to move fast enought to dodge the turrets?
How many people do you know that put turrets evenly around the tf when they baracade the hive. Plus this brings me back to allowing the marines to enjoy their victory instead of F4'ing.
celerity + jumping walls = saved skulk past baracade
One other thing....there is no such thing a a true stalemate. NS seems to be desinged with stalemates in mind. seige towers, onos, grenade launchers, bile bomb, hmg, acid rocket....if you can learn how to use them correctly, stalemates will rarely to never happen.
It's stupid to expect people to sit around and get their butts kicked when the game is already over. I don't even see why people would complain about F4ing. The game is won; there is no more challenge, just the 'thrill' of beating up on disadvantaged opponents. The weak player is the one who wants to continue such a pointless game, not the person F4ing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Never before has the arguement defending the proper use of f4 been so well put.
Now, on the other hand, quitting when the game is far from over... THAT's lame. For example:
quitting when the RNs are 8 vs. 2 and the marines just killed your second hive (1 left): OK.
quitting when the RNs are 6 vs. 4 and the marines just killed your third hive (2 left): lame.
(a) Aliens have three hives, control the entire map, and are just playing with us for over fifteen minutes.
(b) Spawn camping when you have the clear victory.
© Epic last stand with no hope of victory drags on for over a half hour due to GL spam and turret spam. There is no clear plan for victory, and the comm isn't providing any help besides "let's make it hard for them." Actually, I ususally DC in that situation because not enough people F4 to restart the round.
Now, I know some people say "play it out" and "take it like a man." I agree, F4 is probably the least satisfying way to end a round, but I'd rather end it and start a new one than drag out the locked victory for two round lengths.
And before you start complaining, a commander that knows what he's doing and is actually trying to do something is a thing that will prevent my F4ing. For example, we had been clearly outclassed in ns_tanith and there was no way to make it to a res node without dying. However, they didn't have three hives yet so the comm said for everyone to stay in base and get RFK, recycled the turrets and TF to get more res, put it into researching upgrades and sent everyone out with an HA, a welder, and a better weapon. Marines still lose 99% of the time, but at least that's a game worth playing where something happens proactively.
Additionally, some of you will have to get a lot more turret standoffs under your belt before you understand why some of these people are quitting. Playing out the same endgame scenario over and over again is not much fun. It makes NS become more like team DM, which is obviously not the reason we're playing NS.
The whole endgame marine spawn lockdown thing is being blown way out of properation, and the only reason it is an issure right now is because people aren't used to having to have end game strategies as aliens. Marines have always had a strategy to end the game "Siege the last hive" "Rush the last hive with HA" "Rush the last hive with JP" etc. Aliens only have plan of actions to to take over and secure hives, and although they can be incredibly organized while securing hives as soon as that third hive goes up the aliens become disorganized and beging to blindly rushing the marine spawn. The aliens now need end game strategies such as "Primal scream and bile bomb" "Carapace/Regening Onos with gorge support" "Blinking fade assaults" (an easy way to get past the GL spam).
I've played in maybe 2 out of 300 games where the alien team managed to come together after they've had 3 hives because of this we managed to get 3 lerks and 6 gorges, the lerks primal screamed and umbraed and the gorges all Bile Bombed, it took about 15 seconds to completely destroy the marine spawn.
It is sporting to allow the other team a chance to end the game properly. If they resort to lame tactics like spawn killing IPs etc. without making an attempt to end the game - then F4 is justified.
I can understand the temptation for those who do not have much time to play NS per day being somewhat liberal with their F4 usage, but please remember that your fun is dependant on other people's fun. If you are not prepared to sacrifice a bit of personal fun for somebody else (sticking around till the end), why should they stick around for the times when you might want to blast that final hive or eat that last IP ? If these things are not all that important to you _fine_ but please keep in mind that they might be important to others and show a bit of compromise and sportmanship.
If I'm wanting fast action on limited time NS is not my Mod of choice. I'd rather play something like TS if I don't have much time for gaming. IMO it should be understood that NS games can take hours, and this fact should be respected at all times.
So predictable. But I wouldn't F4 less than 5 minutes into the game. Some servers won't let you.
A lot of people just get mad when the other team F4s because they had an advantage and all the cool upgrades and could have destroyed the Marines nice and good. It's the same reason people in RTSs will tech up and play around with their enemy instead of ending the game like they should.
Bottom line is that once you KNOW one team needs a miracle to win I think it's ok to F4. Sure- it's fun for the other team to have an advantage and know they can easily take them out- but that's wrong. The other team isn't having any fun. Let's just start a new game so everyone can have fun.
-JohnnySmash
Getting addicted is worse...
Point being, F4 wouldn't be in the game if it didn't serve a purpose. On the other hand if It were my server, I'd ban for exploiting a games weakness. (F4 for a lame reason) I wouldn't ban though if it was because it was a 3 hour stalemate, etc.