I am talking about pressing f4 after you have just lost, for instance, dbl res. I have seen it happen, the marine team gives up and 4 of them F4/quit leaving the aliens **** off, because they had just managed to clear an area of the map with alot of teamwork... And then a few **** decide they have had enough (game time was about 8 minutes) and they f4'd
That in my opinion is grounds for a public stoning...
I promote banning for abuse of f4, join me and we can bounce up and down arms in the air murmoring random noises and dancing around the marine start hera rt.
Seriously though, this has been discussed to death, then revived, then discussed to death, then undead-ified, then discussed to death, then revived, then....
Yeah, if you want to search for a few of those threads go ahead, you'll see my stance on this issue. Just remember that 2.0 is about as unbalanced as 1.0 was, so give it some time, and a few revisions, for them to get it right. I think we added too much, too fast, and people are still learning the game. I know I am.
urge.. to flame.. people who have nothing constructive to say... rising... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
seriously though, I'm more than tired of being told to use the search function to do one of 2 things:
1) to find someone's comments about an issue. If you aren't willing to repeat them, you have no reason to post.
2) to find some other thread to respond to instead of the current one. I am making my points based on the discussions presented WITHIN this thread, not those from some previous thread. The others here are obviously willing to do the same. I repeat myself in saying, you don't HAVE to reply.
sheezy-Did a quick search, found this thread.. Page 4 is probably one of my better arguments, though you can't change the opinions on either side.<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=34815' target='_blank'>Linky!</a> Some of the data in those threads are still 1.04 or earlier, and do not deal with some of the changed res system in 2.0.
I'm not saying it isn't frustrating to win by "default," I'm just saying it's not <b>LAME</b>. You can think what you want, I'll still F4 as you guys spawncamp at tier 3. Please try to keep it slightly civil, these things get heated fast, and lockage occurs 99% of the time.
<!--QuoteBegin--fo sheezy my neezy+Aug 13 2003, 05:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fo sheezy my neezy @ Aug 13 2003, 05:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> urge.. to flame.. people who have nothing constructive to say... rising... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
seriously though, I'm more than tired of being told to use the search function to do one of 2 things:
1) to find someone's comments about an issue. If you aren't willing to repeat them, you have no reason to post.
2) to find some other thread to respond to instead of the current one. I am making my points based on the discussions presented WITHIN this thread, not those from some previous thread. The others here are obviously willing to do the same. I repeat myself in saying, you don't HAVE to reply. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> here here
<!--QuoteBegin--fo sheezy my neezy+Aug 13 2003, 03:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fo sheezy my neezy @ Aug 13 2003, 03:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> urge.. to flame.. people who have nothing constructive to say... rising... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
seriously though, I'm more than tired of being told to use the search function to do one of 2 things:
1) to find someone's comments about an issue. If you aren't willing to repeat them, you have no reason to post.
2) to find some other thread to respond to instead of the current one. I am making my points based on the discussions presented WITHIN this thread, not those from some previous thread. The others here are obviously willing to do the same. I repeat myself in saying, you don't HAVE to reply. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> pwned to the utmost
The entire point of my original post on the CO forums was to mainly target aliens who F4 after marines get 2 more res nodes than them, or the marines secured the double nodes. Ganja took this idea and expanded it to all F4'ing without reading my post fully before he posted on the NS forums.
Yes F4 is a part of the game, but it doesn't mean you have to use it. Its the same concept as weapons in your house. They are there, but are you going to use them on yourself when life gets too hard?
F4 should not be abused
Yes, I hate many F4'ers, but not all
Yes, I agree F4 is useful - (needing to spec a supposive hacker, stoping "stat hogs," jumping in aliens and exiting teams to crawl on walls)
Yes, I have F4'ed on extreme circumstances
No, the purpose of the original anti-F4 post was not to argue about all F4, just the lamer ones.
Yes, Ganja is a moron for posting this, because a- its been done here alot b - the CO anti-F4 was for the F4 pansies who can't play so they just do it to not lose (because they actually care about stats) or just like to annoy people
As long as there is a reasonable explination behind F4'ing, then is should be ok. If not, punishment should follow for abusing a part of the game. Its like an exploit, in some cases, others, its a tool. Its all how you use it.
And with that, I think this forum topic should be left alone. F4'ing is just a matter of opinion, and I think we've seen all of them.
In general i am against f4, i am one of those people who, alien or marine, will make them work for it, its more fun that way, and gives a sense of closure.
in my opinion there is only one reason to f4, and thats if they are toying with you, intentionaly not kililng hive/ip so they can spawn kill, just siting outside your base when it is fully in there capability to crush you, or to were you down to a crushable state and dont.
<!--QuoteBegin--Frosty+Aug 13 2003, 10:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Frosty @ Aug 13 2003, 10:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> In general i am against f4, i am one of those people who, alien or marine, will make them work for it, its more fun that way, and gives a sense of closure.
in my opinion there is only one reason to f4, and thats if they are toying with you, intentionaly not kililng hive/ip so they can spawn kill, just siting outside your base when it is fully in there capability to crush you, or to were you down to a crushable state and dont. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> F4 should only be allowed in the first 10 minutes of the game, so you can balance teams, and if your commander screws your team, or a gorge on your team just covered the nearest 3 res nodes with o chambers, you can 'restart'.
Just being a gentleman about it and saying "You win. Congrats! Next game please?" is perfectly mature, IMO. I always f4, then say "gg". I also think it's funny when the winners get all immature and say "YOU F-ING QUITERS!!!! BSBSBSBSBSBS!!!!!". lol grow up.
I never understood what the big deal was about forfeiting in a competition when you knew you were going to lose. That really shouldn't be considered poor sportsmanship unless they quit and be all infantile and complaining and add stuff like that to go with it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ganja+Aug 13 2003, 11:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ganja @ Aug 13 2003, 11:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't do it myself but recently many people I know have started complaining about people F4'ing from the game because they are losing one said <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its just a game, so don't be a poor sport and F4, then make up some crap excuse that "the marines were taking to long to kill us," or "most of our guys were AFK anyway." Let it be known that I am now recording every game I play, so if I do see you F4ing, Cracker Jack Mack will be getting a call from everyone's favorite Mexican...me.
NS is a fun game, so keep it that way. Don't be a pansy and F4. Just take it like a man (or woman where it applies).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And others agreed with him but I put it to you as I put it to them . . . NS IS A GAME
It is meant to be enjoyed by all, and getting repeatedly killed because of overwhelming circumstances is not fun for anyone
On another note this is why they removed the score counters from NS in my opinion, because the game is meant to be WON, its not about getting the best kill count or death count, its about winning the game, once you've proven you're superior and the other team quits then you have done just that, you have won the round at which point you can start a whole new game that may end up the same way or it may end up being an evenly stacked game that takes 3 hours and is fun as hell(1/100)
Either way F4ing is fine in my opinion, whats your take on it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right, NS IS just a game. Therefore what is wrong with ending it a bit faster?
I don't mind F4. I'm often the instigator in one of those mass F4s. Hell, once in a while I'll even recycle the base if it's apparent the aliens are gonna take forever to get in. I HATE drawing out games. It's boring for both sides and there's no point in it, as the marines will never win anyway.
On the other hand there are the occassional "OMG we got base rushed so bad we lose now f4f4f4" that annoy me a bit, but ... who cares? It's just a game.
let me bring up another point here. If it's reasonable to F4 because you're going to loose, what's the point of the game? Really. Please. Stop and think about it logically. This game has 2 sides. Obviously this isn't kindergarden where everyone is a winner, so SOMEONE has to loose. I suck it up in the face of defeat, because I know what it's like on the other side. I suck it up and ride it out (unless it's an impossible end-game stalemate) because I know the other team gets a little satisfaction out of winning. The next game I may be on the winning team, and I would hate for the others to F4. As I've stated about 4 times throughout this post, there ARE uses for F4, but liberal use of that key just because you don't like loosing is bullcrap. There HAVE to be winners and loosers, but you CAN have fun winning OR loosing. You all are acting like a runner in the Olympics who didn't have the PERFECT start, so he takes 1 step, stops, and walks off. To you I guess that would sound okay, but to me it's a defeatist attitude that shows little or no maturity.
F4ing just because you're losing is bad. What's the point? You still lose, just you *also* showed everyone you're not willing to try to win. And you get to kill less of the enemy scum. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then there's F4ing when you've been digested, F4ing because you need to respawn back at base quick, etc etc...
But, F4 out altogether? I think not... I suffer from a rather strange bug since 2.0 where sometimes, when I die, I don't respawn. The screen turns black and stays like that. The only way for me to return is to F4, then rejoin the team. I thought it was only just me, until I mentioned it in #NS and someone else has the same problem.
<!--QuoteBegin--ZiGGY^+Aug 13 2003, 09:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZiGGY^ @ Aug 13 2003, 09:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I promote banning for abuse of f4, join me and we can bounce up and down arms in the air murmoring random noises and dancing around the marine start hera rt.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> *Joining*
Pub play is completely ruined cause of F4. I mean completely. Last day i played like 15 games. Not even <b>one</b> ended properly. It was my worth day of NS.
People doesn't understand that they can still have fun even when their team is loosing. As a one hive skulk, i am very satisfied when i chomp a HA to death. If i dont get him and they slaughter me, well it's the game. As a marine, i like to chase down fades or onos that are going back to regen and eventually i kill it. Or i just get webbed and ends in a belly, then i roll a cigarette while being digested and laugh. It's the game.
Just think about what the onos will do to our wifes if we let the alien infest all our bases. Or the marines with that gorge they just captured, owww.
Now there is some special cases, like the aliens destroying everything but the IP, and camping it. It's ok for 5 minutes but if they camp it any longer i may be for ending the game. In that case if i'm alien, i let onoses devour some marines then i chomp the IP (WTH nub let the ip ffs!...) to end the game. If i'm marine, i politely ask them to finish us off <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> If they don't for a long time, then i f4, but in this only case.
Why not remove F4 completely and implement an alternative, like a vote to end the game. This may require 60% of votes or so to work, so it will prevent those two people to ruin everyone's game again and again.
*murmoring random noises and dancing around ms hera rt*
<!--QuoteBegin--Droggog+Aug 14 2003, 04:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Droggog @ Aug 14 2003, 04:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Pub play is completely ruined cause of F4. I mean completely. Last day i played like 15 games. Not even <b>one</b> ended properly. It was my worth day of NS.
...
Why not remove F4 completely and implement an alternative, like a vote to end the game. This may require 60% of votes or so to work, so it will prevent those two people to ruin everyone's game again and again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> erm... You mean the server crashed at the ending of EACH of the 15 games? Last I checked F4'ing makes the game "end" properly.
I liked the last part of your post though. An alternative to F4'ing is a nice idea. This "give up" option is something I would use, like "ejecting the commander." A few problems I see with this are If I gave up earlier, but don't want to give up now, can I cancel my vote? If I gave up, why would I try and help the team anymore. I know! I can annoy them by being in the spawn queue all the time! whoops! I accidentally hit the give up button and lost the game for my team. Giving up isn't manly! Fight to the end! To death! Rarr! Jumping into a welding HA train as a skulk is FUN!
However, there are many games where I know it is over, am ready to give up, but will still put up "the good fight." This doesn't mean we will win, it just means I've only given up on the inside (some may argue this is as good as giving up on the outside).
I also believe your solution, if implemented, would still be ridiculed. "Giving up? That's for losers, who cares if they concede, it's not fair to the winners to win! I mean, the losers to lose! I mean, to ruin the end-game, where we build a siege and siege the hive, after taking every resnode on the map, and double-layering the TFs on each of the secured hives so that the pings are in the 300s."
We played a game just last night where F4'ing should have been used. The marines knew they had lost. About an hour later they lost the game after a failed attempt at expanding outside of their base (probably due to boredom). within the first 20 minutes the game had been decided. The marines then put up "the good fight," but what's the point? Nade spamming in base is boring, not only for the marines who are buying time for level 3 upgrades, but also for the aliens who sit around laming up the entire map, ensuring that any crawl will require an armory, and many many marines. simply put, it was boring. But to their credit, they didn't give up, and provided us with a boring hour of gaming that could have been spent better looking for a cure to the "aliens kick too much butt" issue.
geeze, no one seems to want to reply to my posts specifically. It seems no one has a valid argument and so they totally ignore what I've been saying.
Again, if the marines are nade spamming base, and have a turret farm in their base, an F4 is PROBABLY warranted (though some umbra support and 2 onos can easily break this, it's just ealiens don't want to coordinate the end-game). If the marines are spawn camping you, go ahead, F4. If the aliens are sitting in marine spawn and camping the IPs, go ahread, F4. The game is over at that point anyways. If the marine team has the whole map turret farmed and they have an HA train coming to your hive, give them the 30 seconds it's gonna take to walk in and destroy it (because admit it, when you're on the other side, it's fun to kick a little butt at the end), or at most, the 2 minutes to siege you all out. If they fail, then grab your whole team and make a base assault while they're still respawning. I think F4ing at the first hint of loosing, or to prevent a true win for the other team should be considered "Unsportsman-like Conduct."
F4 is NOT a proper end to the game. It's not how the game was designed. If you think it is, go ask Flayra and the dev team if they intended for every game to end in an F4. Autoconcede is ONLY there to make it so that the team with 1 player isn't forced to fight that team of 8 because his teammates left the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But, F4 out altogether? I think not... I suffer from a rather strange bug since 2.0 where sometimes, when I die, I don't respawn. The screen turns black and stays like that. The only way for me to return is to F4, then rejoin the team. I thought it was only just me, until I mentioned it in #NS and someone else has the same problem. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might try pulling down your console and typing -use in it to see if there's a glitch with that. Then you don't loose your res as kharaa at least. I'd think it's worth a try.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> geeze, no one seems to want to reply to my posts specifically. It seems no one has a valid argument and so they totally ignore what I've been saying.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not because we don't love you, it's because we've heard all of those arguments before and are trying to focus on the "seldom-used" reasons, or the new ideas.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think F4ing at the first hint of loosing, or to prevent a true win for the other team should be considered "Unsportsman-like Conduct."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Alright, that's fine and dandy... for you. I believe conceding is sportsmanlike. What if they mess up and you gave up so they still win? Well, the people who gave up missed their chance. What if they didn't give up and you were about to kill the hive. The ending is still the same, you win, you just don't get to kill all the aliens, sending them into the spawn queue, repeatedly. The inevitable has this funny thing about being inevitable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Autoconcede is ONLY there to make it so that the team with 1 player isn't forced to fight that team of 8 because his teammates left the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's kinda like saying, "he put it in there to keep people from being forced to play a game to certain doom." Although the reason for why he put it in may be misty these days, I think there was more to it than just "to be fair to the poor guys who stick with it to the end, even though their teammates quit and are waiting for a new round, and for the marines/aliens to finally come get the last guy."
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->let me bring up another point here. If it's reasonable to F4 because you're going to loose, what's the point of the game? Really. Please. Stop and think about it logically. This game has 2 sides. Obviously this isn't kindergarden where everyone is a winner, so SOMEONE has to loose. I suck it up in the face of defeat, because I know what it's like on the other side. I suck it up and ride it out (unless it's an impossible end-game stalemate) because I know the other team gets a little satisfaction out of winning. The next game I may be on the winning team, and I would hate for the others to F4. As I've stated about 4 times throughout this post, there ARE uses for F4, but liberal use of that key just because you don't like loosing is bullcrap. There HAVE to be winners and loosers, but you CAN have fun winning OR loosing. You all are acting like a runner in the Olympics who didn't have the PERFECT start, so he takes 1 step, stops, and walks off. To you I guess that would sound okay, but to me it's a defeatist attitude that shows little or no maturity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe <b>THIS</b> is what you're complaining about. Simply put, we've answered this before. You said it yourself, this isn't kindergarten where almost everyone can be a winner. That means someone has to lose. Not everyone plays to the end in a chess game, they concede, aka, give up. The Pro-F4 side has answered this time and time again. There are many games where people give up so they can either get it over with, or play another game. My favorite example is starcraft. How often did you, when on dialup, choose to play a game to the end, even though the guy was toying with you, despite everyone knowing you were pretty much dead? Did you give up? What about when you knew it was over? Did you force him to kill all of your units, running around like a jerk with just a zergling and a spore colony or whatever they were called? Just because people "giving up" wasn't seen as often in FPS games, like CS, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and really doesn't mean that just because there are FPS aspects to NS, the RTS part of the game should be ignored.
That make you feel better? I've just given the same answer they always give to the same excuse given every time in a thread like this. You've been here long enough to know this answer, I guess you just wanted to hear the same reason why we still think it's ok (because it's honorable to give up in many RTS, or other games).
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What if they didn't give up and you were about to kill the hive. The ending is still the same, you win, you just don't get to kill all the aliens, sending them into the spawn queue, repeatedly. The inevitable has this funny thing about being inevitable.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The only funny thing is that what one would consider "inevitable," someone else may not. Say they're coming for your last hive. Either you wait for the little while and let the opposing team have a little fun too, or you go after them, because they COULD make a mistake. What if they sold their entire base to outfit everyone for this one push? You happen to kill them, you all of the sudden win the game out of nowhere (I speak from experience on more than one occasion). What if one (or more) of your guys was sneaky and had gotten to the base and taken it out, and you end up with the same result? There are a million and one possible outcomes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone plays to the end in a chess game, they concede, aka, give up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Natural-Selection cannot even begin to be compared to a mathematical game such as chess. In chess, there are numerous proven strategies and counter-strategies that must be used, or else one side or the other will lose. In natural-selection (in 2.0), there are not tried-and true strategies that will win every time unless the other team happens to make the perfect counter to your actions. There is no "perfect start" to the marine round (or alien round) that will make your team loose if you don't start that way. There's no defined strategies, and it's fully possible for a marine team who has just lost their base, but relocated in time, to win. The same, it's fully possible for an alien team who has just lost the dual res AND their second hive to come back and win the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Pro-F4 side has answered this time and time again. There are many games where people give up so they can either get it over with, or play another game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess I'm just scared that there will eventually be no end-game at all. It'll go to some middle-of-the-round point and everyone will F4, thus (in my opinion) ruining the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My favorite example is starcraft. How often did you, when on dialup, choose to play a game to the end, even though the guy was toying with you, despite everyone knowing you were pretty much dead? Did you give up? What about when you knew it was over? Did you force him to kill all of your units, running around like a jerk with just a zergling and a spore colony or whatever they were called? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry bro, I never had a second phone line, so my 'net was limited to e-mail until I bought cable, but I see your point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You've been here long enough to know this answer, I guess you just wanted to hear the same reason why we still think it's ok (because it's honorable to give up in many RTS, or other games).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I have been around a long time (even before registering for the boards), but I was inactive in the community except for the mapping forum for a long time, and I have to say this is the first F4 post I've seen (sorry, I didn't start it, I just took up the cause).
I can see that this is going nowhere, so I'll just let it go (unless we see some sort of ruling from high above), but let me leave you with another real-life example. If you're playing baseball, and you're down by 6 runs in the 7th inning, you don't have the option to walk off the field and go home because it's "hopeless." Even if all your guys are 4th string no-names up against an all-star team. You have to stick it out until the top of the 9th (if you're away), or bottom of the 9th (if you're home). Maybe, just maybe, you'll get lucky and end up with a win, however unlikely it seems. The 2001 World Series was won by the Diamondbacks in the bottom of the 9th inning in game 7, when the Yankees had the momentum. It's not over til it's over.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->End-game is undesirable, as it's just a period (rather long in NS, I might add) of stagnation and stalemates. God, I wish there was no end-game at all, but it's unfortunately impossible to have a game without some stagnation. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The only endgame that's stagnant is marine's, nade-spamming and turret farming their base. On the alien side, there really is no end-game. If marines are coming for your hive with HA+shotty/GL/HMG, the game is pretty much over, and they try to get it over with as quick as possible. If you're in a nade spam end-game, hell, I'll F4 right along with you.
sounds good to me. I guess I get involved in the game, and want to drill those little peckers no matter which team I'm on. I guess I just admitted bias.
- We all pretty much agree, F4ing for no reason other than: + Ending it to lame + You're losing, so you wanna start over + To respawn as a marine after a successful alien rush is really retarded. So, stop talking about them. - Just the mere chance of comming back is all the more reason of my NOT F4ing. I love a good challenge. - This is a game for mature players, F4ing for no other reason that your own dissapointment in the game is immature. - There is no random chances or skill base in chess, it is math. NS is not math, hence why more people play it than chess (grr). Therefore, losing is not a foregone conclusion in any case. - Death is inevitable, losing games in NS is not. - Fifteen minutes is not a long game, I get upset when people F4 before the half hour mark, short of that being fifteen minutes of spawn camping. - F4ing is quitting. - Conceeding is sportsmanlike, but F4ing isn't. - In the words of the reverend fo shizzle: "F4ing = no twinkie"
All in all, I see F4ing as a pointless idea. Of course, as long as there is the ability to turtle up with 25 turrets and 3+ nade launchers for over two hours, it's debateable. But then again, there's always "retry" or "exit". F4 is just an easy way for the ball-less (no, ladies, you aren't included there) to get out of a game.
Maybe the audience just isn't mature enough.
An IQ test should be required by WON auth servers, then server admins can set a limit on who can login to thier servers. Wouldn't that be rich, hehe.
<!--QuoteBegin--fo sheezy my neezy+Aug 15 2003, 03:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (fo sheezy my neezy @ Aug 15 2003, 03:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> sounds good to me. I guess I get involved in the game, and want to drill those little peckers no matter which team I'm on. I guess I just admitted bias. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I feel the same way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Good to see someone else that shares my viewpoint.
This is why I do not view arguments like "well, they concede in games like chess" as valid, because in chess you are the general and in NS you are the actual chess piece, which means that even ordinary tasks can be quite exciting.
I almost always go down fighting, because I get into the spirit of the game, and realize that if I were really there to concede would mostly likely mean death.
<!--QuoteBegin--Crazy_Monkey+Aug 15 2003, 04:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crazy_Monkey @ Aug 15 2003, 04:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> An IQ test should be required by WON auth servers, then server admins can set a limit on who can login to thier servers. Wouldn't that be rich, hehe. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> So those who don't know how to play or F4 will be allowed in?
Comments
That in my opinion is grounds for a public stoning...
Alpha
Seriously though, this has been discussed to death, then revived, then discussed to death, then undead-ified, then discussed to death, then revived, then....
Yeah, if you want to search for a few of those threads go ahead, you'll see my stance on this issue. Just remember that 2.0 is about as unbalanced as 1.0 was, so give it some time, and a few revisions, for them to get it right. I think we added too much, too fast, and people are still learning the game. I know I am.
seriously though, I'm more than tired of being told to use the search function to do one of 2 things:
1) to find someone's comments about an issue. If you aren't willing to repeat them, you have no reason to post.
2) to find some other thread to respond to instead of the current one. I am making my points based on the discussions presented WITHIN this thread, not those from some previous thread. The others here are obviously willing to do the same. I repeat myself in saying, you don't HAVE to reply.
I'm not saying it isn't frustrating to win by "default," I'm just saying it's not <b>LAME</b>. You can think what you want, I'll still F4 as you guys spawncamp at tier 3. Please try to keep it slightly civil, these things get heated fast, and lockage occurs 99% of the time.
seriously though, I'm more than tired of being told to use the search function to do one of 2 things:
1) to find someone's comments about an issue. If you aren't willing to repeat them, you have no reason to post.
2) to find some other thread to respond to instead of the current one. I am making my points based on the discussions presented WITHIN this thread, not those from some previous thread. The others here are obviously willing to do the same. I repeat myself in saying, you don't HAVE to reply. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
here here
seriously though, I'm more than tired of being told to use the search function to do one of 2 things:
1) to find someone's comments about an issue. If you aren't willing to repeat them, you have no reason to post.
2) to find some other thread to respond to instead of the current one. I am making my points based on the discussions presented WITHIN this thread, not those from some previous thread. The others here are obviously willing to do the same. I repeat myself in saying, you don't HAVE to reply. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
pwned to the utmost
Yes F4 is a part of the game, but it doesn't mean you have to use it. Its the same concept as weapons in your house. They are there, but are you going to use them on yourself when life gets too hard?
F4 should not be abused
Yes, I hate many F4'ers, but not all
Yes, I agree F4 is useful - (needing to spec a supposive hacker, stoping "stat hogs," jumping in aliens and exiting teams to crawl on walls)
Yes, I have F4'ed on extreme circumstances
No, the purpose of the original anti-F4 post was not to argue about all F4, just the lamer ones.
Yes, Ganja is a moron for posting this, because a- its been done here alot b - the CO anti-F4 was for the F4 pansies who can't play so they just do it to not lose (because they actually care about stats) or just like to annoy people
As long as there is a reasonable explination behind F4'ing, then is should be ok. If not, punishment should follow for abusing a part of the game. Its like an exploit, in some cases, others, its a tool. Its all how you use it.
And with that, I think this forum topic should be left alone. F4'ing is just a matter of opinion, and I think we've seen all of them.
*cues forum moderator(?)*
Face it only 5% of games are going to concede when it's reasonable to do so. Remove it completely. Once you join a team, you should be stuck there.
in my opinion there is only one reason to f4, and thats if they are toying with you, intentionaly not kililng hive/ip so they can spawn kill, just siting outside your base when it is fully in there capability to crush you, or to were you down to a crushable state and dont.
in my opinion there is only one reason to f4, and thats if they are toying with you, intentionaly not kililng hive/ip so they can spawn kill, just siting outside your base when it is fully in there capability to crush you, or to were you down to a crushable state and dont. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
F4 should only be allowed in the first 10 minutes of the game, so you can balance teams, and if your commander screws your team, or a gorge on your team just covered the nearest 3 res nodes with o chambers, you can 'restart'.
I never understood what the big deal was about forfeiting in a competition when you knew you were going to lose. That really shouldn't be considered poor sportsmanship unless they quit and be all infantile and complaining and add stuff like that to go with it.
F4 is good. For every reason mentioned in this thread.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Its just a game, so don't be a poor sport and F4, then make up some crap excuse that "the marines were taking to long to kill us," or "most of our guys were AFK anyway." Let it be known that I am now recording every game I play, so if I do see you F4ing, Cracker Jack Mack will be getting a call from everyone's favorite Mexican...me.
NS is a fun game, so keep it that way. Don't be a pansy and F4. Just take it like a man (or woman where it applies).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And others agreed with him but I put it to you as I put it to them . . . NS IS A GAME
It is meant to be enjoyed by all, and getting repeatedly killed because of overwhelming circumstances is not fun for anyone
On another note this is why they removed the score counters from NS in my opinion, because the game is meant to be WON, its not about getting the best kill count or death count, its about winning the game, once you've proven you're superior and the other team quits then you have done just that, you have won the round at which point you can start a whole new game that may end up the same way or it may end up being an evenly stacked game that takes 3 hours and is fun as hell(1/100)
Either way F4ing is fine in my opinion, whats your take on it? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, NS IS just a game. Therefore what is wrong with ending it a bit faster?
I don't mind F4. I'm often the instigator in one of those mass F4s. Hell, once in a while I'll even recycle the base if it's apparent the aliens are gonna take forever to get in. I HATE drawing out games. It's boring for both sides and there's no point in it, as the marines will never win anyway.
On the other hand there are the occassional "OMG we got base rushed so bad we lose now f4f4f4" that annoy me a bit, but ... who cares? It's just a game.
I play on a server where F4 means ban
Therefore I am happy and so is everyone else who is like minded, who plays there
Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Then there's F4ing when you've been digested, F4ing because you need to respawn back at base quick, etc etc...
But, F4 out altogether? I think not... I suffer from a rather strange bug since 2.0 where sometimes, when I die, I don't respawn. The screen turns black and stays like that. The only way for me to return is to F4, then rejoin the team. I thought it was only just me, until I mentioned it in #NS and someone else has the same problem.
*Joining*
Pub play is completely ruined cause of F4. I mean completely. Last day i played like 15 games. Not even <b>one</b> ended properly. It was my worth day of NS.
People doesn't understand that they can still have fun even when their team is loosing. As a one hive skulk, i am very satisfied when i chomp a HA to death. If i dont get him and they slaughter me, well it's the game. As a marine, i like to chase down fades or onos that are going back to regen and eventually i kill it. Or i just get webbed and ends in a belly, then i roll a cigarette while being digested and laugh. It's the game.
Just think about what the onos will do to our wifes if we let the alien infest all our bases. Or the marines with that gorge they just captured, owww.
Now there is some special cases, like the aliens destroying everything but the IP, and camping it. It's ok for 5 minutes but if they camp it any longer i may be for ending the game. In that case if i'm alien, i let onoses devour some marines then i chomp the IP (WTH nub let the ip ffs!...) to end the game. If i'm marine, i politely ask them to finish us off <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> If they don't for a long time, then i f4, but in this only case.
Why not remove F4 completely and implement an alternative, like a vote to end the game. This may require 60% of votes or so to work, so it will prevent those two people to ruin everyone's game again and again.
*murmoring random noises and dancing around ms hera rt*
...
Why not remove F4 completely and implement an alternative, like a vote to end the game. This may require 60% of votes or so to work, so it will prevent those two people to ruin everyone's game again and again. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
erm... You mean the server crashed at the ending of EACH of the 15 games? Last I checked F4'ing makes the game "end" properly.
I liked the last part of your post though. An alternative to F4'ing is a nice idea. This "give up" option is something I would use, like "ejecting the commander." A few problems I see with this are
If I gave up earlier, but don't want to give up now, can I cancel my vote?
If I gave up, why would I try and help the team anymore. I know! I can annoy them by being in the spawn queue all the time!
whoops! I accidentally hit the give up button and lost the game for my team.
Giving up isn't manly! Fight to the end! To death! Rarr! Jumping into a welding HA train as a skulk is FUN!
However, there are many games where I know it is over, am ready to give up, but will still put up "the good fight." This doesn't mean we will win, it just means I've only given up on the inside (some may argue this is as good as giving up on the outside).
I also believe your solution, if implemented, would still be ridiculed. "Giving up? That's for losers, who cares if they concede, it's not fair to the winners to win! I mean, the losers to lose! I mean, to ruin the end-game, where we build a siege and siege the hive, after taking every resnode on the map, and double-layering the TFs on each of the secured hives so that the pings are in the 300s."
We played a game just last night where F4'ing should have been used. The marines knew they had lost. About an hour later they lost the game after a failed attempt at expanding outside of their base (probably due to boredom). within the first 20 minutes the game had been decided. The marines then put up "the good fight," but what's the point? Nade spamming in base is boring, not only for the marines who are buying time for level 3 upgrades, but also for the aliens who sit around laming up the entire map, ensuring that any crawl will require an armory, and many many marines. simply put, it was boring. But to their credit, they didn't give up, and provided us with a boring hour of gaming that could have been spent better looking for a cure to the "aliens kick too much butt" issue.
Again, if the marines are nade spamming base, and have a turret farm in their base, an F4 is PROBABLY warranted (though some umbra support and 2 onos can easily break this, it's just ealiens don't want to coordinate the end-game). If the marines are spawn camping you, go ahead, F4. If the aliens are sitting in marine spawn and camping the IPs, go ahread, F4. The game is over at that point anyways. If the marine team has the whole map turret farmed and they have an HA train coming to your hive, give them the 30 seconds it's gonna take to walk in and destroy it (because admit it, when you're on the other side, it's fun to kick a little butt at the end), or at most, the 2 minutes to siege you all out. If they fail, then grab your whole team and make a base assault while they're still respawning. I think F4ing at the first hint of loosing, or to prevent a true win for the other team should be considered "Unsportsman-like Conduct."
F4 is NOT a proper end to the game. It's not how the game was designed. If you think it is, go ask Flayra and the dev team if they intended for every game to end in an F4. Autoconcede is ONLY there to make it so that the team with 1 player isn't forced to fight that team of 8 because his teammates left the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But, F4 out altogether? I think not... I suffer from a rather strange bug since 2.0 where sometimes, when I die, I don't respawn. The screen turns black and stays like that. The only way for me to return is to F4, then rejoin the team. I thought it was only just me, until I mentioned it in #NS and someone else has the same problem. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might try pulling down your console and typing -use in it to see if there's a glitch with that. Then you don't loose your res as kharaa at least. I'd think it's worth a try.
It's not because we don't love you, it's because we've heard all of those arguments before and are trying to focus on the "seldom-used" reasons, or the new ideas.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think F4ing at the first hint of loosing, or to prevent a true win for the other team should be considered "Unsportsman-like Conduct."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alright, that's fine and dandy... for you. I believe conceding is sportsmanlike. What if they mess up and you gave up so they still win? Well, the people who gave up missed their chance. What if they didn't give up and you were about to kill the hive. The ending is still the same, you win, you just don't get to kill all the aliens, sending them into the spawn queue, repeatedly. The inevitable has this funny thing about being inevitable.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Autoconcede is ONLY there to make it so that the team with 1 player isn't forced to fight that team of 8 because his teammates left the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's kinda like saying, "he put it in there to keep people from being forced to play a game to certain doom." Although the reason for why he put it in may be misty these days, I think there was more to it than just "to be fair to the poor guys who stick with it to the end, even though their teammates quit and are waiting for a new round, and for the marines/aliens to finally come get the last guy."
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->let me bring up another point here. If it's reasonable to F4 because you're going to loose, what's the point of the game? Really. Please. Stop and think about it logically. This game has 2 sides. Obviously this isn't kindergarden where everyone is a winner, so SOMEONE has to loose. I suck it up in the face of defeat, because I know what it's like on the other side. I suck it up and ride it out (unless it's an impossible end-game stalemate) because I know the other team gets a little satisfaction out of winning. The next game I may be on the winning team, and I would hate for the others to F4. As I've stated about 4 times throughout this post, there ARE uses for F4, but liberal use of that key just because you don't like loosing is bullcrap. There HAVE to be winners and loosers, but you CAN have fun winning OR loosing. You all are acting like a runner in the Olympics who didn't have the PERFECT start, so he takes 1 step, stops, and walks off. To you I guess that would sound okay, but to me it's a defeatist attitude that shows little or no maturity. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe <b>THIS</b> is what you're complaining about. Simply put, we've answered this before. You said it yourself, this isn't kindergarten where almost everyone can be a winner. That means someone has to lose. Not everyone plays to the end in a chess game, they concede, aka, give up. The Pro-F4 side has answered this time and time again. There are many games where people give up so they can either get it over with, or play another game. My favorite example is starcraft. How often did you, when on dialup, choose to play a game to the end, even though the guy was toying with you, despite everyone knowing you were pretty much dead? Did you give up? What about when you knew it was over? Did you force him to kill all of your units, running around like a jerk with just a zergling and a spore colony or whatever they were called? Just because people "giving up" wasn't seen as often in FPS games, like CS, doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and really doesn't mean that just because there are FPS aspects to NS, the RTS part of the game should be ignored.
That make you feel better? I've just given the same answer they always give to the same excuse given every time in a thread like this. You've been here long enough to know this answer, I guess you just wanted to hear the same reason why we still think it's ok (because it's honorable to give up in many RTS, or other games).
The only funny thing is that what one would consider "inevitable," someone else may not. Say they're coming for your last hive. Either you wait for the little while and let the opposing team have a little fun too, or you go after them, because they COULD make a mistake. What if they sold their entire base to outfit everyone for this one push? You happen to kill them, you all of the sudden win the game out of nowhere (I speak from experience on more than one occasion). What if one (or more) of your guys was sneaky and had gotten to the base and taken it out, and you end up with the same result? There are a million and one possible outcomes.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not everyone plays to the end in a chess game, they concede, aka, give up.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Natural-Selection cannot even begin to be compared to a mathematical game such as chess. In chess, there are numerous proven strategies and counter-strategies that must be used, or else one side or the other will lose. In natural-selection (in 2.0), there are not tried-and true strategies that will win every time unless the other team happens to make the perfect counter to your actions. There is no "perfect start" to the marine round (or alien round) that will make your team loose if you don't start that way. There's no defined strategies, and it's fully possible for a marine team who has just lost their base, but relocated in time, to win. The same, it's fully possible for an alien team who has just lost the dual res AND their second hive to come back and win the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Pro-F4 side has answered this time and time again. There are many games where people give up so they can either get it over with, or play another game. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I'm just scared that there will eventually be no end-game at all. It'll go to some middle-of-the-round point and everyone will F4, thus (in my opinion) ruining the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->My favorite example is starcraft. How often did you, when on dialup, choose to play a game to the end, even though the guy was toying with you, despite everyone knowing you were pretty much dead? Did you give up? What about when you knew it was over? Did you force him to kill all of your units, running around like a jerk with just a zergling and a spore colony or whatever they were called? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry bro, I never had a second phone line, so my 'net was limited to e-mail until I bought cable, but I see your point.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You've been here long enough to know this answer, I guess you just wanted to hear the same reason why we still think it's ok (because it's honorable to give up in many RTS, or other games).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, I have been around a long time (even before registering for the boards), but I was inactive in the community except for the mapping forum for a long time, and I have to say this is the first F4 post I've seen (sorry, I didn't start it, I just took up the cause).
I can see that this is going nowhere, so I'll just let it go (unless we see some sort of ruling from high above), but let me leave you with another real-life example. If you're playing baseball, and you're down by 6 runs in the 7th inning, you don't have the option to walk off the field and go home because it's "hopeless." Even if all your guys are 4th string no-names up against an all-star team. You have to stick it out until the top of the 9th (if you're away), or bottom of the 9th (if you're home). Maybe, just maybe, you'll get lucky and end up with a win, however unlikely it seems. The 2001 World Series was won by the Diamondbacks in the bottom of the 9th inning in game 7, when the Yankees had the momentum. It's not over til it's over.
The only endgame that's stagnant is marine's, nade-spamming and turret farming their base. On the alien side, there really is no end-game. If marines are coming for your hive with HA+shotty/GL/HMG, the game is pretty much over, and they try to get it over with as quick as possible. If you're in a nade spam end-game, hell, I'll F4 right along with you.
- We all pretty much agree, F4ing for no reason other than:
+ Ending it to lame
+ You're losing, so you wanna start over
+ To respawn as a marine after a successful alien rush
is really retarded. So, stop talking about them.
- Just the mere chance of comming back is all the more reason of my NOT F4ing. I love a good challenge.
- This is a game for mature players, F4ing for no other reason that your own dissapointment in the game is immature.
- There is no random chances or skill base in chess, it is math. NS is not math, hence why more people play it than chess (grr). Therefore, losing is not a foregone conclusion in any case.
- Death is inevitable, losing games in NS is not.
- Fifteen minutes is not a long game, I get upset when people F4 before the half hour mark, short of that being fifteen minutes of spawn camping.
- F4ing is quitting.
- Conceeding is sportsmanlike, but F4ing isn't.
- In the words of the reverend fo shizzle: "F4ing = no twinkie"
All in all, I see F4ing as a pointless idea. Of course, as long as there is the ability to turtle up with 25 turrets and 3+ nade launchers for over two hours, it's debateable. But then again, there's always "retry" or "exit". F4 is just an easy way for the ball-less (no, ladies, you aren't included there) to get out of a game.
Maybe the audience just isn't mature enough.
An IQ test should be required by WON auth servers, then server admins can set a limit on who can login to thier servers. Wouldn't that be rich, hehe.
I feel the same way <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> Good to see someone else that shares my viewpoint.
This is why I do not view arguments like "well, they concede in games like chess" as valid, because in chess you are the general and in NS you are the actual chess piece, which means that even ordinary tasks can be quite exciting.
I almost always go down fighting, because I get into the spirit of the game, and realize that if I were really there to concede would mostly likely mean death.
So those who don't know how to play or F4 will be allowed in?
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->