<!--QuoteBegin--Lt.Warhound+Aug 14 2003, 06:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Warhound @ Aug 14 2003, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If I could have just one trait, it would be scent of fear. Nothing else is as good.
I can hear it now, SoF won't help when you know where they are, in their base! Who cares? If we have them bottled in their base, its ggkthxbye time. Celerity, ooohh, I can now run in faster and die. Moderately useful. Better to use leap if you want to xeno, better to use blink, _much faster. Cel is nice as a onos, but onos is just _one of 5 classes. And odds are, if we have them pinned, we have all three hives, and all chambers.
SC as first chamber rocks, period. SoF or cloak makes for deadly effective ambushes. Silence? Erh, ya, works on marines that don't cover their 6. BFD. A moment of care, and your silent rush eats lmg. Ya, works great on solo marines, but hell, anything kills a lone rambo. A decent group of marines will have guns in all directions. Cloaked and sitting in their path, I get a kill before they even begin to pull a trigger, plenty of time to attack or flee, depending.
Silence is nice for partially negating ambushes, where a marine is sitting in a shadow, listening. But, with SoF, I know he's there before he gets a shot at me, negating the ambush completely.
SC first _slows down the marines dramatically. Either they are shooting everywhere trying to 'recon by fire', or they are spending resources they don't have to make obseravatories. Which can't scan everywhere, and the commander must divert his limited attention to do so.
A slowed marine team loses. Pin them down while you get the second hive up, and you have a serious advantage.
Adrenaline is about the only movement trait worth getting early, when bilebombing. As a lerk, I prefer SoF or regen over adrenaline. Knowing _exactly where and when to spore means the marines die without ever getting a shot at me. As they approach a corne, poof, spores in their face and I'm back around the next corner. They retreat, guess what? I see that too.
SC first _dramatically helps the gorge, no other chamber does as much to keep a gorge or hive alive. Sure, if the MC is nearby and the team knows where it is and they aren't already closer to the hive, and if they will actually go help the hive under attack, only if all those things are true, then the MC will help save the hive. Ya know, most of the time on pubs, none of those will be true. Most pubs, most games, MC won't help the hive. SC cloaking the OCs and the gorge, and the respawning skulks, that will help.
Repeatedly, the ability to cloak has saved me, as a gorge. I sure can't count on the damn skulks to protect me, just doesn't happen. I also can't count the number of times I've seen marines run in, around the RT and back out, without stopping, simply due to the nearby SC.
DC second is great. Regen for the lerks, carapace for the skulks and fades (who have metabolize at this point) and redemption to allow the onos to really tork the marines off.
When its MC first, its a race to get the second hive up before the marines take over. That's the norm on the various pubs, so I've seen. At that point, DC needs to be second, MC SC DC tends to be a problem.
Oh, and motion tracking? Cloak negates MT. Stop moving, wait a moment, the giveaway blue circle goes away. Observatories negate cloak, but its easier to cover the critical parts of the map with SCs than Obs.
SC DC MC works, its solid, and it doesn't depend on your team to have leet ubor mad skillz. Decent skills, ya, if you can't bite a marine no chamber will help you there. Mostly, people pushing MC first are trying to get their kill stats up, saving for onos, while yelling for more chambers and another hive to be built. I've yet to see a gorge (not a temp-gorge, a real gorge, one that stays gorge for most of the game) want MC first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree with that.
Silence is absolutely THE best upgrade in the game, if the marines want a chance against you, then they will need to get motion tracking, in which case you still have two other useful upgrades that absolutely kick ****.
Silence, Celerity all get countered by MT. MT DOEST NOT WORK ON CLOAKERS. Your not gonna hear me running up at you when your attacking something anyways so silence is WORTHLESS. And if they have MT your **** w/ MC evolutions. But on the other hand. i have SoF so i know when the guy is coming and how many. And im cloaked. You dont understand how many more times ive killed rines w/ SoF and cloak instead of Silence. A good marine checks their back and travel in packs. W/ cloaking you can pick one or 2 off, run off and recloak then rinse and repeat.
<!--QuoteBegin--Go|iath+Aug 14 2003, 02:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Go|iath @ Aug 14 2003, 02:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 14 2003, 01:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 14 2003, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sick and TIRED of SDM being the set-in-stone chamber style. The only way I can get MC first is if I go gorge in the first second of play and drop it before someone drops an SC! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And it seems your dead set on building MC? But SC is very useful until the second hive comes up. Its still useful for SoF and for cloaking/ambushing but it has no offensive power at all.
EDIT: Why dont you try different servers? On the Ozforces server theres always a mix between dc/mc/sc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I doubt very many guys on these forums are in Australia..
But I must say, Ozforces does seem to have quite a high level of teamwork for a public server. It does depend on who's playing though. Its great fun when all the regulars get together, my favourite server for sure.
<!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 07:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Silence, Celerity all get countered by MT. MT DOEST NOT WORK ON CLOAKERS. Your not gonna hear me running up at you when your attacking something anyways so silence is WORTHLESS. And if they have MT your **** w/ MC evolutions. But on the other hand. i have SoF so i know when the guy is coming and how many. And im cloaked. You dont understand how many more times ive killed rines w/ SoF and cloak instead of Silence. A good marine checks their back and travel in packs. W/ cloaking you can pick one or 2 off, run off and recloak then rinse and repeat. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you need to settle down. Stop trying to enforce you opinions on others. You cannot say that silence is useless. It's VERY effective.
Example:
Three marines are running towards an RT/Hive/whatever down a tight corrider in single file. You can't see them, but you can hear them, and they're moving away from you. You run at full speed towards their location, and all three have their backs to you. *chomp chomp* first marine is down *chomp chomp* second marine is down, perhaps the survivor will realise whats going on, perhaps not - either way he has a very small chance of surviving an encounter when his first inkling of being under attack is watching his health drop from 100 to 48.
Silence is effective up to and during the attack. Sensory is effective BEFORE the attack, once the attack begins they should have full awareness of your location, via sight and sound.
I'm not saying OMG YOU NOOB SENS SUXXX~!1
I'm just saying you don't need to force your beliefs on others. Let people use what they feel they can work with best, all three chambers are quite viable.
My first preference is MC. Celerity (in the hands of a skilled player) as well as silence are incredibly useful for skulks.
<!--QuoteBegin--Lt.Warhound+Aug 14 2003, 06:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Warhound @ Aug 14 2003, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Celerity, ooohh, I can now run in faster and die. Moderately useful. Better to use leap if you want to xeno, better to use blink, _much faster. Cel is nice as a onos, but onos is just _one of 5 classes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> your joking...
celerity is the greatest ability for skulks.
a strafing celerity skulk is damn near impossible to hit.
<!--QuoteBegin--[A]pe+Aug 14 2003, 07:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> ([A]pe @ Aug 14 2003, 07:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 07:50 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 07:50 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Silence, Celerity all get countered by MT. MT DOEST NOT WORK ON CLOAKERS. Your not gonna hear me running up at you when your attacking something anyways so silence is WORTHLESS. And if they have MT your **** w/ MC evolutions. But on the other hand. i have SoF so i know when the guy is coming and how many. And im cloaked. You dont understand how many more times ive killed rines w/ SoF and cloak instead of Silence. A good marine checks their back and travel in packs. W/ cloaking you can pick one or 2 off, run off and recloak then rinse and repeat. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you need to settle down. Stop trying to enforce you opinions on others. You cannot say that silence is useless. It's VERY effective.
Example:
Three marines are running towards an RT/Hive/whatever down a tight corrider in single file. You can't see them, but you can hear them, and they're moving away from you. You run at full speed towards their location, and all three have their backs to you. *chomp chomp* first marine is down *chomp chomp* second marine is down, perhaps the survivor will realise whats going on, perhaps not - either way he has a very small chance of surviving an encounter when his first inkling of being under attack is watching his health drop from 100 to 48.
Silence is effective up to and during the attack. Sensory is effective BEFORE the attack, once the attack begins they should have full awareness of your location, via sight and sound.
I'm not saying OMG YOU NOOB SENS SUXXX~!1
I'm just saying you don't need to force your beliefs on others. Let people use what they feel they can work with best, all three chambers are quite viable.
My first preference is MC. Celerity (in the hands of a skilled player) as well as silence are incredibly useful for skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> problem w/ that is your relying on being faced against bad marine players that 1) dont watch their back. 2) cant shoot worth crap 3) dont look at their minimap. Biggest mistake you ever make is underestimating the marine team. If faced against good marines 1) They watch their back and always alert. 2) Know how to shoot, 3) Look at the mini-map constantly looking for a red dot to appear.
SC and being cloaked counters #1 and #3.
sure MC is useful for its evolutions but it relys too much on the skill and luck of the alien players as well as the lack of skill and bad luck of marine players. Would you rather have them see you but be silent or not see you but hear you and you know where the rines are at all times?
Then you take into consideration the skill of the alien. A good alien can stay hidden without cloak and scout where marines are without SoF or Pheramones.
Celerity just makes it all the much better for sneaking up on marines from far off hiding spots, usually some dark perch that is rarely checked. I usually run past a marine - they rarely hit me because I'm so fast... but I go back and ween in a few times to tease. Now they're staring at the spot they saw me, ready to blast me if I show up again... and that's when I weasel my way around to bite them in the back.
I personally don't find silence to be all that useful <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sure, maybe you might hear them coming, and then they won't hear you. Then you have to hide, maybe on the ceiling or the like. Its still completely defensive. Its still entirely possible for them to *see* you on their path. At least if they have any skill at all. Why do I prefer cloaking? Because the moment I hear them coming, I hide, and no matter what, they *won't* see me. And then the day is mine. Same thing with fades. Why would you want movement for a fade? For the silence? Cloaking = win. For the celerity? Maybe. For the adrenaline? The fades initial two-hive abilities aren't very energy intensive, so it kinda defeats the purpose unless you need it for acid rocket.
<!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 05:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Aegeri+Aug 14 2003, 07:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Aegeri @ Aug 14 2003, 07:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If SCs keep the comm busy scanning everywhere and putting lots of obs down instead of branching out and upgrading, how can you say that isnt useful or an offensive tactic? Esp. in the early game, when res is rare and important to use correctly as a marine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Has it occured to you that you've also wasted resources placing SC's to begin with. Instead of doing the alien thing of rapidly spreading everywhere like a cancer, most sensory first aliens are busy stuffing around their various sensory chambers. If you can easily scan to find and tag these, the aliens have wasted BOTH time and res. Celerity from movements not only lets aliens defend better, it aids their expansion by a ton. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But the same can be said where you waste you res on Obs and you will never have enough energy to find ALL of the SCs i placed. <b>That being said for every game that I dropped an SC and 4 DC next to a rine base not once has it fallen to rine attacks.</b> Now imagine you walk by those DCs and they are visable because aliens went MDS and we are trying to take the 3rd hive. If you fail the assault w/ MCs and DCs rines will just continue to push you out. On the other hand if a SC and DCs assault fails, they will be pushing out into your cloaked areas = marines getting owned by skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You have an incredibly dumb commander if that worked. Honestly :/ That would never work on me, and in fact hasn't.
<!--QuoteBegin--xioutlawix+Aug 14 2003, 08:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Aug 14 2003, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For the celerity? Maybe. For the adrenaline? The fades initial two-hive abilities aren't very energy intensive, so it kinda defeats the purpose unless you need it for acid rocket. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Laff.
<!--QuoteBegin--xioutlawix+Aug 14 2003, 08:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (xioutlawix @ Aug 14 2003, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I personally don't find silence to be all that useful <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sure, maybe you might hear them coming, and then they won't hear you. Then you have to hide, maybe on the ceiling or the like. Its still completely defensive. Its still entirely possible for them to *see* you on their path. At least if they have any skill at all. Why do I prefer cloaking? Because the moment I hear them coming, I hide, and no matter what, they *won't* see me. And then the day is mine. Same thing with fades. Why would you want movement for a fade? For the silence? Cloaking = win. For the celerity? Maybe. For the adrenaline? The fades initial two-hive abilities aren't very energy intensive, so it kinda defeats the purpose unless you need it for acid rocket. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You're saying movement is useless for hive 1 fades? Umm.. Blink uses a LOT of energy. Without adren, you have enough energy to blink up to a marine and stand there while he pumps you full of lead while you wait for your energy to recharge enough for a swipe or two. With adren, you can blink almost twice as long/far and regenerate energy quickly enough that you'll actually be effective once you're within slicing range.
For fades, I would have to say movement is almost a pre-requisite. I'm sure quite a few would agree with me there.
Also, silent fades are teh pwn (if you use it correctly). Very lethal.
<!--QuoteBegin--SilverSurfie+Aug 14 2003, 08:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SilverSurfie @ Aug 14 2003, 08:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->problem w/ that is your relying on being faced against bad marine players that 1) dont watch their back. 2) cant shoot worth crap 3) dont look at their minimap. Biggest mistake you ever make is underestimating the marine team. If faced against good marines 1) They watch their back and always alert. 2) Know how to shoot, 3) Look at the mini-map constantly looking for a red dot to appear.
SC and being cloaked counters #1 and #3.
sure MC is useful for its evolutions but it relys too much on the skill and luck of the alien players as well as the lack of skill and bad luck of marine players. Would you rather have them see you but be silent or not see you but hear you and you know where the rines are at all times? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We're talking about pubs here, aren't we? If we are, the marines <b>arent</b> that good at shooting, and hardly <b>ever</b> cover their backs. The time taken to look at the minimap can be time used in which a skulk is all of a sudden biting at their heels. All depends on individual skill, which isn't that high on average if we're talking pubs.
If not: Any decent clan will <b>slaughter</b> an alien team that uses sensory first.
Within minutes you'll be facing two or three observatories at least one of which will be located at a forward base. The comm <b>will</b> know how to scan, and he <b>will</b> scan effectively. Your prized SCs, in this case, will be useless (besides SoF).
whatevers im tired of arguing. Your not going to change my mind and from what it sounds like i cant change your mind either. whatever rocks your boat. I prefer SC, some other prefer MC. Etc etc etc. i just find it easier to expand w/ less risk when aliens go SC. Im a bomb shot as a gorge and i need that SC to save my *** so i dont get jumped by rines.
Let me voice my opinoin. MCs suck first. Great second. Suck first. Reason being, it has no useful first hive upgrades for a lerk. Well adrenaline is very useful BUT lerks 100% need an upgrade that will help them survive or they are a flying skulk waiting to die. They need a defensive upgrade of your choice or scent of fear. I prefer dcs first. then mcs. cause well thats still the best order still. Defensive upgrades and adrenline are still two must haves for lerks and fades.
<!--QuoteBegin--Monkeybonk+Aug 14 2003, 01:51 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Monkeybonk @ Aug 14 2003, 01:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And then, Fades without MC are WORTHLESS! Talk about restriciting your team INTENTIONALLY! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Inciting anger is the fastest way to make someone stop listening.
Go for a little democracy or something: start a poll among your team, and find out what they really think. The SC-only crowd may just be a vocal minority.
Silent fades own. End of story. You blink so fast that even motion tracking won't catch you coming up to the marine. Then by the time you get your swipes in its too late for the marine to get you. If they are in a group, you can usually mange to take down a second marine before needing to blink away and heal again. And no this doesn't just work on "stupid marines". I've used it in scrims many times against well known clans. The only chance of taking down a silent fade is landing a lucky shot with a shotgun, but not just one shot, the fade has to be hurt already. Movement first benefits the skilled. Sensory doesn't. If the skill level is high, it is extremely easy to counter sensory.
I have found that either MC or SC can go first. I have no problems with either. I have been finding lately, though, that MCs are better. MCs effective time lasts for the game. SCs are only effective in the begining 5-15 minutes. 1 skulk with celerity can crawl all over an HA and chew it to peices. A pack of celerity skulks using the vents properly can take out atleast 1 HA, if not more, in a team of HAs. Celerity fades using blink are impossible to track. Adrenaline fades fly (Fear the Amazing Fearless-Flying-Fade). Silence fades are great for 'Surprise!' attacks. I personally beleive this should be the chamber Patern: MC, DC, then SC.
I was under the impression silence kept you off the MT monitor. That by getting silence you would not show up at all because MT works off of sound waves and as a silenced alien you produce NO sound waves.
What's up did they remove that feature too?
As for the arguement, I could care less which is first as long as your team knows what to do to maximize the attributes of your first chamber.
You'll see that silence keeps its usefulness tho - try it out
Reminds me, I remember one time on caged, I had cleared out shipping tunnel RT. I was sitting there for like 2 min expecting the comm to do something. I asked occasionally but nothing happened. Finally I took to watching the minimap, checking out what was up with my teammates across the map. Lo and behold there's a skulk - creeping up right behind me.. rofl
All chambers have there advantages and disadvantages. They are all perfectly evened out. But I would pick SC over MC becuase of the Alien Motion Tracking (aka scent of fear)
So this topic is where all the crying comes from. Its incredible, yesterday i spend 4 hours playing ns and of the maybe 4 servers I joined there wasnt a single one where, as an alien, I didnt read NO SC during the game. Do I complain when somebody puts MC first? Do I not build SC's all over the map when I build the first one? Dont I see 1 MC being build and the next one 5 minutes later?
I tend to dislike MC and DC because if you get one of the 2 first, it occured to me you'll always get the other one second. Theyre like twins. Besides SC is considerably less fun end game than it is early game and it's imo the most fun chamber in the game as the other 2 have been played to boredom in 1.04. DC+MC or the other way around makes me feel if im still playing 1.04 and not 2.0, and I quit playing that because all games looked the same.
Pls stop the crying about SC. It might not upgrade your favorite lifeform by making it shoot faster or prevent you from having to run back to a hive or gorge to heal, it does turn any lifeform especially the smaller ones into invisible, scent of fear using hunters.
I feel your pain Monkeybonk, I really do. I was blamed as the ONLY Gorge, for an alien loss because I am "a nub who builds mc first OMG nub." That is word for word what I was told. I replied:
A) Will more people PLEASE come gorge? Reply? SUYF NUB OMG j0 SUX
B) I asked you at the start what you wanted, and you said nothing. I then said "I'm going to build an MC." Nothing.
C) If you can't win with movement first, YOU'RE the nub, not me.
So this topic is where all the crying comes from. Its incredible, yesterday i spend 4 hours playing ns and of the maybe 4 servers I joined there wasnt a single one where, as an alien, I didnt read NO SC during the game. Do I complain when somebody puts MC first? Do I not build SC's all over the map when I build the first one? Dont I see 1 MC being build and the next one 5 minutes later?
I tend to dislike MC and DC because if you get one of the 2 first, it occured to me you'll always get the other one second. Theyre like twins. Besides SC is considerably less fun end game than it is early game and it's imo the most fun chamber in the game as the other 2 have been played to boredom in 1.04. DC+MC or the other way around makes me feel if im still playing 1.04 and not 2.0, and I quit playing that because all games looked the same.
Pls stop the crying about SC. It might not upgrade your favorite lifeform by making it shoot faster or prevent you from having to run back to a hive or gorge to heal, it does turn any lifeform especially the smaller ones into invisible, scent of fear using hunters.
<!--QuoteBegin--Tazol+Aug 14 2003, 02:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tazol @ Aug 14 2003, 02:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Movement is only good the evolutions, not the structures(whereas Defense and Sensory are). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, movement chambers do something even more useful if you sit near one... Get Adren, then sit on three or four more M-chambers in a stack as a Lerk, for instance. You won't be able to fire Spores and Umbra fast enough to run out of energy. :-)
It's even more fun going Onos at 2-hives, and sitting by a stack of M and D-chambers with Adren and Regen going, and just stomping for a good solid few minutes to hold down an entire squad of marines while a gorge builds o-chambers to kill them all.
Movement is great for harassment-attacking, as it lets you use the high-powered attacks pretty much constantly if the chambers are stacked up into clumps like healing stations. If littered across the level, it allows things like fades to zip nearly across the entire level on one blink, or skulks to constantly leap, due to the energy-boost, almost like a train route for fades or skulks or Onos with Charge later on.
<!--QuoteBegin--WolfWings+Aug 14 2003, 10:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (WolfWings @ Aug 14 2003, 10:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Tazol+Aug 14 2003, 02:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Tazol @ Aug 14 2003, 02:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Movement is only good the evolutions, not the structures(whereas Defense and Sensory are). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, movement chambers do something even more useful if you sit near one... Get Adren, then sit on three or four more M-chambers in a stack as a Lerk, for instance. You won't be able to fire Spores and Umbra fast enough to run out of energy. :-)
It's even more fun going Onos at 2-hives, and sitting by a stack of M and D-chambers with Adren and Regen going, and just stomping for a good solid few minutes to hold down an entire squad of marines while a gorge builds o-chambers to kill them all.
Movement is great for harassment-attacking, as it lets you use the high-powered attacks pretty much constantly if the chambers are stacked up into clumps like healing stations. If littered across the level, it allows things like fades to zip nearly across the entire level on one blink, or skulks to constantly leap, due to the energy-boost, almost like a train route for fades or skulks or Onos with Charge later on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually.. thanks for proving my point which I posted earlier.. everybody is skipping the big post. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (If you read the entire post, you'd realize I had already mentioned movement chambers replenish energy)
On a completely seperate note (and therefore a seperate post) why is it I usually see MicroSoft Domination as a very viable chamber order? :-)
Every time I've seen it tried, it works out stupidly well. Yes, it means No Kamikazi Onos Until Hive 3, but it makes Lerks and Fades incredibly effective at assaulting, so long as you have an active population of <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->'s up with the assaulters, dropping more movement and sensory and healing.
It's a very non-standard sequence, sure, but it's pretty effective because of the general chaos it causes with Marine logistics. It requires them to be in more places than even a phase gate allows for easilly, with scanning backup to even be able to tell if an assault force is about to attack any given outpost.
I just see Sensory first as far too easy to counter. Drop minepacks, scan a few times, boom, Sensory is neutered. Mining RT's is still silly-effective, too. Just wish Comms would drop Mines as often as welders or shotguns. They stop Onos dead cold in their tracks, especially with a shotgun backing it up, which I think shocked the hell out of the aliens I Commed against. First two things down, Armory and Mines in Cargo Bay, fully abandoned main base, RT after that.
First time an Onos came in, nobody even fired a shot, we had a complete seal of mines along one doorway, he brushed against the entire stack, and those on the inside top edge of the doorway when he tried to jump over the two or three on the floor, and just died, on the spot.
The messages of 'WTH?' were priceless. :-) They regretted going SDM, because we planted Mines every so often, effectively neutralizing the D, and I had around 5 Obs up, letting me scan to my hearts content, so S was dead. At that point, it was just a matter of keeping their RT's dead, and sitting on Viaduct through to Cargo Bay and the original base with phase gates at all RTs until we had L3 weapons and Armor, then handing out Jetpacks and HA's with medium-powered weapons and welders (and still more mines for the JP's) and walking all over Power Silo. :-)
Thinking outside the box works, folks. The trick is to get outside the damn box first, and stop bitching about 'XYZ is best first' and just try mixing it up. Surprises are the best tactic. An untrained soldier can do many things a multi-times-over Veteran can't accomplish, because they'll try to do it the 'wrong' way, and succeed because the enemy doesn't know how to defend against anything but the 'right' way.
I'm sorry but so far all I hear is lots of crap about SC and MCs. Any chamber that gives decent abilities and has a decent passive ability is supposed to be good enough right? SC's force the marines to build extra (observatory) buildings. There is no better chamber for that specific reason. Forcing a tech AND mandatory res expenditure for marines at outposts is better than any chamber (first hive chamber) that does NOT. Let me know when someone can show me otherwise IN LARGE GAMES (8v8+)
There is a best way. The way that gives you the greatest advantage period. While there can be debate over MC vs DC, SC is clearly better than either. SC first implies 3-hive win? ALL ALIEN WINS are 3-hive. Either you get the cheap third hive along the way or you take it over from the marines. That's just plain specious.
"Forcing a tech AND mandatory res expenditure for marines at outposts is better than any chamber (first hive chamber) that does NOT. Let me know when someone can show me otherwise IN LARGE GAMES (8v8+) "
What the hell... it just cancells out. Instead of gaining something, you dont get anything.. and neither do they. Instead of going Celerity and killing all the marines, they spend more money. I dont understand how wasting a perfectly good opportunity to be extremely fast, or harder to actually kill, is worth making them build stuff. They'll build an observatory anyway.
Who cares whether they build an observatory or not. The upgrade of my choice for every lifeform ist always Scent of Fear. Do you guys really think carapace or regeneration makes a difference when you rush into a marine outpost guarded by five marines? With Scent of Fear you know where your prey is and you can keep track of it until it's not aware of the danger.
Marines have to move around. They just cannot sit inside their base and wait till all aliens starve. Aliens will get all three hives and crush their base to pieces if they do so. Defensive structures are useful and invisible defending skulks are killing machines. They are in the middle of your squad but you don't see them until they attack. They hunt you and they always know where you are.
I don't say Sensory is the perfect chamber I just prefer it as the first one because in the beginning marines are weak and easy to kill when you know where they are. Movement is nice too. Celerity skulks are hard to hit and adrenalin is the gorges best friend. But I hate defense chambers. They don't provide anything useful for early lifeforms.
Comments
I can hear it now, SoF won't help when you know where they are, in their base! Who cares? If we have them bottled in their base, its ggkthxbye time. Celerity, ooohh, I can now run in faster and die. Moderately useful. Better to use leap if you want to xeno, better to use blink, _much faster. Cel is nice as a onos, but onos is just _one of 5 classes. And odds are, if we have them pinned, we have all three hives, and all chambers.
SC as first chamber rocks, period. SoF or cloak makes for deadly effective ambushes. Silence? Erh, ya, works on marines that don't cover their 6. BFD. A moment of care, and your silent rush eats lmg. Ya, works great on solo marines, but hell, anything kills a lone rambo. A decent group of marines will have guns in all directions. Cloaked and sitting in their path, I get a kill before they even begin to pull a trigger, plenty of time to attack or flee, depending.
Silence is nice for partially negating ambushes, where a marine is sitting in a shadow, listening. But, with SoF, I know he's there before he gets a shot at me, negating the ambush completely.
SC first _slows down the marines dramatically. Either they are shooting everywhere trying to 'recon by fire', or they are spending resources they don't have to make obseravatories. Which can't scan everywhere, and the commander must divert his limited attention to do so.
A slowed marine team loses. Pin them down while you get the second hive up, and you have a serious advantage.
Adrenaline is about the only movement trait worth getting early, when bilebombing. As a lerk, I prefer SoF or regen over adrenaline. Knowing _exactly where and when to spore means the marines die without ever getting a shot at me. As they approach a corne, poof, spores in their face and I'm back around the next corner. They retreat, guess what? I see that too.
SC first _dramatically helps the gorge, no other chamber does as much to keep a gorge or hive alive. Sure, if the MC is nearby and the team knows where it is and they aren't already closer to the hive, and if they will actually go help the hive under attack, only if all those things are true, then the MC will help save the hive. Ya know, most of the time on pubs, none of those will be true. Most pubs, most games, MC won't help the hive. SC cloaking the OCs and the gorge, and the respawning skulks, that will help.
Repeatedly, the ability to cloak has saved me, as a gorge. I sure can't count on the damn skulks to protect me, just doesn't happen. I also can't count the number of times I've seen marines run in, around the RT and back out, without stopping, simply due to the nearby SC.
DC second is great. Regen for the lerks, carapace for the skulks and fades (who have metabolize at this point) and redemption to allow the onos to really tork the marines off.
When its MC first, its a race to get the second hive up before the marines take over. That's the norm on the various pubs, so I've seen. At that point, DC needs to be second, MC SC DC tends to be a problem.
Oh, and motion tracking? Cloak negates MT. Stop moving, wait a moment, the giveaway blue circle goes away. Observatories negate cloak, but its easier to cover the critical parts of the map with SCs than Obs.
SC DC MC works, its solid, and it doesn't depend on your team to have leet ubor mad skillz. Decent skills, ya, if you can't bite a marine no chamber will help you there. Mostly, people pushing MC first are trying to get their kill stats up, saving for onos, while yelling for more chambers and another hive to be built. I've yet to see a gorge (not a temp-gorge, a real gorge, one that stays gorge for most of the game) want MC first. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree with that.
Silence is absolutely THE best upgrade in the game, if the marines want a chance against you, then they will need to get motion tracking, in which case you still have two other useful upgrades that absolutely kick ****.
MC>SC
And it seems your dead set on building MC? But SC is very useful until the second hive comes up. Its still useful for SoF and for cloaking/ambushing but it has no offensive power at all.
EDIT: Why dont you try different servers? On the Ozforces server theres always a mix between dc/mc/sc. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I doubt very many guys on these forums are in Australia..
But I must say, Ozforces does seem to have quite a high level of teamwork for a public server. It does depend on who's playing though. Its great fun when all the regulars get together, my favourite server for sure.
I think you need to settle down. Stop trying to enforce you opinions on others. You cannot say that silence is useless. It's VERY effective.
Example:
Three marines are running towards an RT/Hive/whatever down a tight corrider in single file. You can't see them, but you can hear them, and they're moving away from you. You run at full speed towards their location, and all three have their backs to you. *chomp chomp* first marine is down *chomp chomp* second marine is down, perhaps the survivor will realise whats going on, perhaps not - either way he has a very small chance of surviving an encounter when his first inkling of being under attack is watching his health drop from 100 to 48.
Silence is effective up to and during the attack. Sensory is effective BEFORE the attack, once the attack begins they should have full awareness of your location, via sight and sound.
I'm not saying OMG YOU NOOB SENS SUXXX~!1
I'm just saying you don't need to force your beliefs on others. Let people use what they feel they can work with best, all three chambers are quite viable.
My first preference is MC. Celerity (in the hands of a skilled player) as well as silence are incredibly useful for skulks.
your joking...
celerity is the greatest ability for skulks.
a strafing celerity skulk is damn near impossible to hit.
and a bhoping celerity skulk is just hax...
I think you need to settle down. Stop trying to enforce you opinions on others. You cannot say that silence is useless. It's VERY effective.
Example:
Three marines are running towards an RT/Hive/whatever down a tight corrider in single file. You can't see them, but you can hear them, and they're moving away from you. You run at full speed towards their location, and all three have their backs to you. *chomp chomp* first marine is down *chomp chomp* second marine is down, perhaps the survivor will realise whats going on, perhaps not - either way he has a very small chance of surviving an encounter when his first inkling of being under attack is watching his health drop from 100 to 48.
Silence is effective up to and during the attack. Sensory is effective BEFORE the attack, once the attack begins they should have full awareness of your location, via sight and sound.
I'm not saying OMG YOU NOOB SENS SUXXX~!1
I'm just saying you don't need to force your beliefs on others. Let people use what they feel they can work with best, all three chambers are quite viable.
My first preference is MC. Celerity (in the hands of a skilled player) as well as silence are incredibly useful for skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
problem w/ that is your relying on being faced against bad marine players that 1) dont watch their back. 2) cant shoot worth crap 3) dont look at their minimap. Biggest mistake you ever make is underestimating the marine team.
If faced against good marines 1) They watch their back and always alert. 2) Know how to shoot, 3) Look at the mini-map constantly looking for a red dot to appear.
SC and being cloaked counters #1 and #3.
sure MC is useful for its evolutions but it relys too much on the skill and luck of the alien players as well as the lack of skill and bad luck of marine players. Would you rather have them see you but be silent or not see you but hear you and you know where the rines are at all times?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->your joking...
celerity is the greatest ability for skulks.
a strafing celerity skulk is damn near impossible to hit.
and a bhoping celerity skulk is just hax... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you must be facing off against pretty bad marines...
Celerity just makes it all the much better for sneaking up on marines from far off hiding spots, usually some dark perch that is rarely checked. I usually run past a marine - they rarely hit me because I'm so fast... but I go back and ween in a few times to tease. Now they're staring at the spot they saw me, ready to blast me if I show up again... and that's when I weasel my way around to bite them in the back.
Sure, maybe you might hear them coming, and then they won't hear you. Then you have to hide, maybe on the ceiling or the like. Its still completely defensive. Its still entirely possible for them to *see* you on their path. At least if they have any skill at all. Why do I prefer cloaking? Because the moment I hear them coming, I hide, and no matter what, they *won't* see me. And then the day is mine. Same thing with fades. Why would you want movement for a fade? For the silence? Cloaking = win. For the celerity? Maybe. For the adrenaline? The fades initial two-hive abilities aren't very energy intensive, so it kinda defeats the purpose unless you need it for acid rocket.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If SCs keep the comm busy scanning everywhere and putting lots of obs down instead of branching out and upgrading, how can you say that isnt useful or an offensive tactic? Esp. in the early game, when res is rare and important to use correctly as a marine. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Has it occured to you that you've also wasted resources placing SC's to begin with. Instead of doing the alien thing of rapidly spreading everywhere like a cancer, most sensory first aliens are busy stuffing around their various sensory chambers. If you can easily scan to find and tag these, the aliens have wasted BOTH time and res. Celerity from movements not only lets aliens defend better, it aids their expansion by a ton.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But the same can be said where you waste you res on Obs and you will never have enough energy to find ALL of the SCs i placed. <b>That being said for every game that I dropped an SC and 4 DC next to a rine base not once has it fallen to rine attacks.</b> Now imagine you walk by those DCs and they are visable because aliens went MDS and we are trying to take the 3rd hive. If you fail the assault w/ MCs and DCs rines will just continue to push you out. On the other hand if a SC and DCs assault fails, they will be pushing out into your cloaked areas = marines getting owned by skulks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have an incredibly dumb commander if that worked. Honestly :/ That would never work on me, and in fact hasn't.
Laff.
Fades are the SUVs of the alien world.
Sure, maybe you might hear them coming, and then they won't hear you. Then you have to hide, maybe on the ceiling or the like. Its still completely defensive. Its still entirely possible for them to *see* you on their path. At least if they have any skill at all. Why do I prefer cloaking? Because the moment I hear them coming, I hide, and no matter what, they *won't* see me. And then the day is mine. Same thing with fades. Why would you want movement for a fade? For the silence? Cloaking = win. For the celerity? Maybe. For the adrenaline? The fades initial two-hive abilities aren't very energy intensive, so it kinda defeats the purpose unless you need it for acid rocket. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're saying movement is useless for hive 1 fades?
Umm..
Blink uses a LOT of energy. Without adren, you have enough energy to blink up to a marine and stand there while he pumps you full of lead while you wait for your energy to recharge enough for a swipe or two.
With adren, you can blink almost twice as long/far and regenerate energy quickly enough that you'll actually be effective once you're within slicing range.
For fades, I would have to say movement is almost a pre-requisite. I'm sure quite a few would agree with me there.
Also, silent fades are teh pwn (if you use it correctly).
Very lethal.
If faced against good marines 1) They watch their back and always alert. 2) Know how to shoot, 3) Look at the mini-map constantly looking for a red dot to appear.
SC and being cloaked counters #1 and #3.
sure MC is useful for its evolutions but it relys too much on the skill and luck of the alien players as well as the lack of skill and bad luck of marine players. Would you rather have them see you but be silent or not see you but hear you and you know where the rines are at all times?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're talking about pubs here, aren't we?
If we are, the marines <b>arent</b> that good at shooting, and hardly <b>ever</b> cover their backs. The time taken to look at the minimap can be time used in which a skulk is all of a sudden biting at their heels. All depends on individual skill, which isn't that high on average if we're talking pubs.
If not:
Any decent clan will <b>slaughter</b> an alien team that uses sensory first.
Within minutes you'll be facing two or three observatories at least one of which will be located at a forward base. The comm <b>will</b> know how to scan, and he <b>will</b> scan effectively. Your prized SCs, in this case, will be useless (besides SoF).
Reason being, it has no useful first hive upgrades for a lerk. Well adrenaline is very useful BUT lerks 100% need an upgrade that will help them survive or they are a flying skulk waiting to die. They need a defensive upgrade of your choice or scent of fear. I prefer dcs first. then mcs. cause well thats still the best order still. Defensive upgrades and adrenline are still two must haves for lerks and fades.
Inciting anger is the fastest way to make someone stop listening.
Go for a little democracy or something: start a poll among your team, and find out what they really think. The SC-only crowd may just be a vocal minority.
((PS: No one is a newb for holding an oppinion.))
What's up did they remove that feature too?
As for the arguement, I could care less which is first as long as your team knows what to do to maximize the attributes of your first chamber.
You'll see that silence keeps its usefulness tho - try it out
Reminds me, I remember one time on caged, I had cleared out shipping tunnel RT. I was sitting there for like 2 min expecting the comm to do something. I asked occasionally but nothing happened. Finally I took to watching the minimap, checking out what was up with my teammates across the map. Lo and behold there's a skulk - creeping up right behind me.. rofl
silence + cloak = fukn scary
I tend to dislike MC and DC because if you get one of the 2 first, it occured to me you'll always get the other one second. Theyre like twins. Besides SC is considerably less fun end game than it is early game and it's imo the most fun chamber in the game as the other 2 have been played to boredom in 1.04. DC+MC or the other way around makes me feel if im still playing 1.04 and not 2.0, and I quit playing that because all games looked the same.
Pls stop the crying about SC. It might not upgrade your favorite lifeform by making it shoot faster or prevent you from having to run back to a hive or gorge to heal, it does turn any lifeform especially the smaller ones into invisible, scent of fear using hunters.
A) Will more people PLEASE come gorge? Reply? SUYF NUB OMG j0 SUX
B) I asked you at the start what you wanted, and you said nothing. I then said "I'm going to build an MC." Nothing.
C) If you can't win with movement first, YOU'RE the nub, not me.
I tend to dislike MC and DC because if you get one of the 2 first, it occured to me you'll always get the other one second. Theyre like twins. Besides SC is considerably less fun end game than it is early game and it's imo the most fun chamber in the game as the other 2 have been played to boredom in 1.04. DC+MC or the other way around makes me feel if im still playing 1.04 and not 2.0, and I quit playing that because all games looked the same.
Pls stop the crying about SC. It might not upgrade your favorite lifeform by making it shoot faster or prevent you from having to run back to a hive or gorge to heal, it does turn any lifeform especially the smaller ones into invisible, scent of fear using hunters.
((PS: No one is a newb for holding an oppinion.))
Actually, movement chambers do something even more useful if you sit near one... Get Adren, then sit on three or four more M-chambers in a stack as a Lerk, for instance. You won't be able to fire Spores and Umbra fast enough to run out of energy. :-)
It's even more fun going Onos at 2-hives, and sitting by a stack of M and D-chambers with Adren and Regen going, and just stomping for a good solid few minutes to hold down an entire squad of marines while a gorge builds o-chambers to kill them all.
Movement is great for harassment-attacking, as it lets you use the high-powered attacks pretty much constantly if the chambers are stacked up into clumps like healing stations. If littered across the level, it allows things like fades to zip nearly across the entire level on one blink, or skulks to constantly leap, due to the energy-boost, almost like a train route for fades or skulks or Onos with Charge later on.
Actually, movement chambers do something even more useful if you sit near one... Get Adren, then sit on three or four more M-chambers in a stack as a Lerk, for instance. You won't be able to fire Spores and Umbra fast enough to run out of energy. :-)
It's even more fun going Onos at 2-hives, and sitting by a stack of M and D-chambers with Adren and Regen going, and just stomping for a good solid few minutes to hold down an entire squad of marines while a gorge builds o-chambers to kill them all.
Movement is great for harassment-attacking, as it lets you use the high-powered attacks pretty much constantly if the chambers are stacked up into clumps like healing stations. If littered across the level, it allows things like fades to zip nearly across the entire level on one blink, or skulks to constantly leap, due to the energy-boost, almost like a train route for fades or skulks or Onos with Charge later on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually.. thanks for proving my point which I posted earlier.. everybody is skipping the big post. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> (If you read the entire post, you'd realize I had already mentioned movement chambers replenish energy)
Every time I've seen it tried, it works out stupidly well. Yes, it means No Kamikazi Onos Until Hive 3, but it makes Lerks and Fades incredibly effective at assaulting, so long as you have an active population of <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->'s up with the assaulters, dropping more movement and sensory and healing.
It's a very non-standard sequence, sure, but it's pretty effective because of the general chaos it causes with Marine logistics. It requires them to be in more places than even a phase gate allows for easilly, with scanning backup to even be able to tell if an assault force is about to attack any given outpost.
I just see Sensory first as far too easy to counter. Drop minepacks, scan a few times, boom, Sensory is neutered. Mining RT's is still silly-effective, too. Just wish Comms would drop Mines as often as welders or shotguns. They stop Onos dead cold in their tracks, especially with a shotgun backing it up, which I think shocked the hell out of the aliens I Commed against. First two things down, Armory and Mines in Cargo Bay, fully abandoned main base, RT after that.
First time an Onos came in, nobody even fired a shot, we had a complete seal of mines along one doorway, he brushed against the entire stack, and those on the inside top edge of the doorway when he tried to jump over the two or three on the floor, and just died, on the spot.
The messages of 'WTH?' were priceless. :-) They regretted going SDM, because we planted Mines every so often, effectively neutralizing the D, and I had around 5 Obs up, letting me scan to my hearts content, so S was dead. At that point, it was just a matter of keeping their RT's dead, and sitting on Viaduct through to Cargo Bay and the original base with phase gates at all RTs until we had L3 weapons and Armor, then handing out Jetpacks and HA's with medium-powered weapons and welders (and still more mines for the JP's) and walking all over Power Silo. :-)
Thinking outside the box works, folks. The trick is to get outside the damn box first, and stop bitching about 'XYZ is best first' and just try mixing it up. Surprises are the best tactic. An untrained soldier can do many things a multi-times-over Veteran can't accomplish, because they'll try to do it the 'wrong' way, and succeed because the enemy doesn't know how to defend against anything but the 'right' way.
There is a best way. The way that gives you the greatest advantage period. While there can be debate over MC vs DC, SC is clearly better than either. SC first implies 3-hive win? ALL ALIEN WINS are 3-hive. Either you get the cheap third hive along the way or you take it over from the marines. That's just plain specious.
What the hell... it just cancells out. Instead of gaining something, you dont get anything.. and neither do they. Instead of going Celerity and killing all the marines, they spend more money. I dont understand how wasting a perfectly good opportunity to be extremely fast, or harder to actually kill, is worth making them build stuff. They'll build an observatory anyway.
Marines have to move around. They just cannot sit inside their base and wait till all aliens starve. Aliens will get all three hives and crush their base to pieces if they do so. Defensive structures are useful and invisible defending skulks are killing machines. They are in the middle of your squad but you don't see them until they attack. They hunt you and they always know where you are.
I don't say Sensory is the perfect chamber I just prefer it as the first one because in the beginning marines are weak and easy to kill when you know where they are.
Movement is nice too. Celerity skulks are hard to hit and adrenalin is the gorges best friend.
But I hate defense chambers. They don't provide anything useful for early lifeforms.