interesting....but like i said i know hotkeys and there's noway they'll beat me to it and if they gestate and i get it up before they do it's definitely over because they'll never be able to kill the node as a gorge so if that fails there gone...also i'll just recycle the ip as usual becuase in small games as such i'ma relocate neways its jsut amatter of whether the aliens choose to attack or not...
btw, alot of the times this strategy makes the whole alien team leave to take donw the nodes in panic....sometimes i can just relocate right next to there base and siege..
Yes, but what i'm saying is that if all three or even two make it to a node and sit on top of it (evolve on top of it) you can't drop it. You can drop it after they move off, but you can't be in 3 places at once. You may be able to drop one down when one moves off (since they have to move off to drop it themselves), but not all three. And all the aliens need is that extra two nodes to pretty much destroy the marines in a 3v3 since they get 1 res per tick. From there they can work normally to kill off the other dummy nodes. While this strategy may work the first time (not unlike a shotty rush), if I knew it was coming again I'd run to a node and block it.
that's where we differ i challenge anyone to beat me to a node....i honestly don't think neone can get on top of a node before i can cap it ...using hotkeys and minimap i can do this within first ten seconds of game or less....so it comes down to whether i can drop it before u can gestate on it which i should be able to do
I dont care what anyone says. This strategy does work very well. The only way marines could lose is if they all have bad aim and/or dont stick together and listen to the commander. Ive used this strategy extensively myself and it has worked almost 90% of the time. But then again I dont play with noobs whose aim stinks. I play with people who are serious about winning and are hardcore dedicated. <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> = Marines Win <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> . TOOL is a genius and anyone who says this doesnt work is stupid...period.
in conclusion, I think this strategy is the end all and i will continue to rape aliens with it until someone stops me...or i got on an absolutely horrible team...thx for all the responses
That's a very cool strategy--I will have to try it.
Currently I can only think of one flaw in it, that could lead to a counter. You start the game with 100 res, and on an average map there are 10 res nodes...wait...thats not a flaw at all, since 2 of them are already capped (1 marine 1 alien). That leaves you with enough res to cap every node except one within 10 seconds, and of course that one will be the one farthest away from the alien base.
So, on second thought, the only counter I can think of is for the aliens to rush your poorly defended base, and even though you have no investment there and can recycle and move on easily enough, you just spent ALL of your res, so it will be a while before you earn enough to do that.
<!--QuoteBegin--BattleTech+Oct 13 2003, 01:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BattleTech @ Oct 13 2003, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even with two nozzle's, that Lerk can become a Fade or Onos right when the marine's get HA or Jetpacks. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Use vents to get around, and zoom past the Onii. Get into the hives and knife 'em to death! If there is only 1 player on Aliens, the Onos will have to either evolve to another species, or watch helplessly as you knife t3h hiev!11!!!oen1!
thx for the replies VERY interesting stuff...please keep me posted on ur in-game stories or experiences trying it and tell me if it has worked for u in an actual game, thx for the responses guys! <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
OK, I just tried this strat on cofr on a small game, 3v3. marines OWNED. I dropped most of the nodes and only cut off one gorge, but the other skulks ran around and tried to bite my nodes. In the meantime I sent my marines to their res node and blew it away. and then whenever they killed a node I'd replace it before they dropped it. Occasionally they'd manage to drop it and 2 marines would immediately set to killing it before it could pay for itself. Its faster for a marine to build a node than a skulk to eat it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Next point of interest is that because skulks are too busy eating nodes marines don't need to worry about being eaten.
And lastly, those 2 nodes by their hive I didn't feel like constantly replacing so I just dropped a CC on them. And, when they did start to evolve on the node so I couldn't kill it, I dropped a CC next to their egg but still on the node.
How did the game end? My marines had jetpacks and full upgrades and knifed the hive to death. I love this strat.
wow sounds like it worked for you as it worked for me you pretty much explained word for word what I did 3 games ina row...the question now is...is there a counter? and if there is (there probably is but its gonna be complex) how long will it take for alien teams to figure it out? until they do I'll continue to stomp alien teams no matter the skill level....wow great story thx for the response
<!--QuoteBegin--TOOL+Oct 15 2003, 11:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOOL @ Oct 15 2003, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> good point, it wouldn't be fun but, for clan matches...could it make u unstoppable?? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This can't work in clan mathes, or would it...?
I dunno, 6 skulks could chew up all the nodes you could make...
But usually there are at least 2 gorges in every 6 man team...
I dunno, it sounds risky and hard to do but I think it might work.
Here is a possible counter (maybe, just a random thought in my head). 3v3 game. All 3 aliens gorge to place an rt, but find they are all blocked. Then all 3 of them place mc's. 2 of them go skulk and get celerity, while the other one stays gorge to save for hive (or maybe the hive saver doesn't place an mc, don't know). The two skulks are only trying to attack the marines to prevent them from building nodes to begin with. They only attack a node if it is built, to force a marine response or recycling it. Basically, since they can't get res, they will try to stop the marines from getting res also. Once the gorge puts up the second hive they get adrenaline upgrade. When it finishes building, they go to a node far from marine base and bile bomb it to death. The comm can keep replacing it if they want, but it will cost them. I think celerity is necessary to respond to the marines as quickly as possible. Any upgrade chamber and any upgrade can be used instead.
The idea is to keep the marines as low on res as possible. It becomes difficult to get upgrades without creating a real base, which slows down the res prevention/building stage. As for actual times at the beginning of the game, a res node gives 1 rp every 4 seconds, so each alien gets 1 rp every 12 seconds. The player placing 2 mc's can do this at 1 minute into the game, and can suicide to go back to skulk, and can get celerity 7 seconds after spawning (note that they only have to place the chamber, not build it, since that can be done by the gorge saving for a hive). The player saving for hive will have to wait 5 minutes to put up a hive, assuming they don't die or spend any other res first.
Once again, I don't know how this would work, it was just an idea. Here's an idea to test it. Go on a small server, and tell the other team what you are going to do while in the ready room. Also tell them about this counter-tactic. See how it goes.
That isn't close to a counter tatic. Just because you have celerity won't make you own the marines. If it does, then the marines probably would have lost anyways.
thx for response on the counter-tactic...I see you put thought into it while it might work...you gotta remember i'll be medspamming because of a ton of money i have left over and if u waste money on celerity when you only have one node and don't get kills (because of med spam) then you'll never have the ability to become a higher life-form later int he game when you really need against my 3/3 shotties jps marines...and turret farms. thx for response though interesting I may try it
Forlorn, I'm VERY greatful for your feedback on your testing it really helps and I don't know if it would work ina clan match but I would love to try it although I never join clans in any game I"m thinking about joining eXa and maybe i'll get a chance to try it in a scrim there. thx for response! <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
great strat TOOL. used it a couple times last night on 3v3 on 4v4 games and it worked very smoothly. only prob i saw (this happened to me a coupla times) was an initial skulk rush -- they arrived right after i'd spent the last of my beginning rez and took out the ip in no time -- luckily i was able to get out and nail em (only 2), but if not ...... i guess this woulda been a relocate situation, but that necessitates 15 (i think) for new comm chair, then 20 more for an ip. even with the 3 or 4 rez i had up at the time i imagine 2 skulks could kill the cc by that time -- or not? i'm sure this has happened to you -- what do u do if all 3 skulkys rush your base initially (sometimes experienced teams will try one good skulk rush before gorging) and take it down cause its undefended? even if you can relocate in time, they know you're gonna have a poorly defended new base somewhere and they can run and do the same .... just some thoughts. anyways, this strat is hillarious and far more effective than any "uber-strat" i've seen posted yet (ie, yours actually works). good job and thanks for sharing it!
thx for response, stilton, usually i won't put EVERY node down right at the beginning jsut in case....but i'll put the ones right next to there base where they will go to first then if they don't rush i'll set down the others...and even if they do i'll just recycle ip getting back 10 res? and just wait for the res to come in becuase it will if the skulks are occupied with the base the marines are capping tons of res. so they can't kill the comm chair before i relocate and its usually good to relocate in a central area anyways!! thx for response! <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo-->
What would concern me would be a dedicated CC attack on the marine spawn. Sure, you can relocate, but if one alien is following the marines, your relocate could be easily detected and rines attacked mid build.
I mean, assuming three v three, then 2 aliens attack the CC, one finds the 2 marines on the map. Commander drops new CC, so one marine builds, the other guards. Tailing skulk should be able to take out either the builder or guarder, by that point your MS CC should be gone and the 2 aliens would be en route to the relocate.
Again, aliens would be very concerned if they rush to an RT (usually as skulk, and evolving to gorge when they reach it) and then see it with a marine one on top, or see one suddenly appear. An immediate counter at that point could be devastating to marine spawn.
Now, of course, the counter is the relocate, and the great flexibility of this strat is that marines could relocate and instantly move into a tech rush game. Flexibility is strength, and in this case marines could be tech rushing with most of the RTs on the map, leaving aliens poorly equipped to adequately counter.
Of course with the changelogs indicating that "normal" NS must be played with 6 v 6, this type of strat might be quickly sidelined.
thx for post interesting view, still haven't tested this in a "serious" large game like good players but i have one in big games also (bare in mind these are pubs im winning in), also interesting take on the counter but i'm assuming a med spam will keep them alive and i'll place my building next to a soon to be electrified res. node...thx for response! <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
I just forgot to note the counter in my last post.
This is not an invulnrable Strat, just a ok one.. It can easilu be countered by a gorge placing an OC on top of or below the RT. If placced properly it will kill the RT and prevent you from dropping an RT since there will be a blocking alien structure.
All you can do is try and Electrify the RT, however if anything else is damaging the RT (including a gorge doing about 15-20 spit attacks) the upgrade will not be finished in time.
Worst of all aliens can still place a RC on that node if the OC is only about halfway on the nozzel, because the alien version of the RT has less required base contact with the node. Worst case it will be a hostile block to both teams.. which isn't so bad for the aliens.
Both sides will still get res from killing each other, so it comes down to more or less which team has more effective killers.
Remeber a Gorge drops self building structures. Playing as an alien, we defeated their com by the segment of us that were gorges dropping 2 OC's on each node, and going to the next. In about 3 minutes we destroyed almost all the rine RT's and built RC's at about half the ones we killed. Sine this only took about half our team, the other half continously ambushed the 2 man teams of marines that tryed to save each node (since it was clear to us where they were headed, it was east to skulk ambush).
Just keep in mind that there is no 'perfect' strategy, I do admit this is an effective one that I have used in about 1/4 of my games as com, and about 1/2 my games as aliens a just begin as a permagorge using the counter from the beginning.
thx for response, the thing is you will never make it to the node before i will place in the first place , nevertheless as a gorge and then drop a ot so that's flawed wouldnt work
also if u two people out of the three people on ur team decide to go gorge and "conquer" all the nodes then i'm just gonna relocate in ur base game over....also it is gonan take those oc's and ur spit along time to kill the dummy nodes and if they drop on the nodes themselves i don't believe u can build a res node if u put ur own oc on them? also one skulk will not kill my medspammed shotty marines...right outside of ur base
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> "but i'm assuming a med spam will keep them alive and i'll place my building next to a soon to be electrified res" <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doubtful since noone's in the commchair, and placing the building near a "soon to be electrified res" would be risky if you haven't a chance to elec it before the skulks rip your current cc to small tiny pieces.
There's likely a counter to this as well, such as deliberately placing a CC somewhere near a pre-electrified node - I know this possibility. The problem is that you've to get the CC built, so a fast moving scout skulk could find it and tag it while his two friends have a go at marine spawn. If they leave the IP up in marine spawn, then your forces will get split, which could be fatal in small games.
Again, there's probably a counter to this too - but the point is that if you're using this strat, you need to be fully aware of the possibilities. Too many people copy strats then whine when it doesn't work. The fact is copying strats without understanding will very rarely work. Word of warning for you budding comms out there.
good point necrosis, btw I play with my friends on lan in 3v3 games so we know EXACTLY what we are doing and i can tell them if there is a scout skulk nearby and i know they can kill skulks early very easily...btw assuming game is three v three ur not even usikng a gorge and if ur rush fails which is very likely game is over right there...
Comments
Tyrsis
Currently I can only think of one flaw in it, that could lead to a counter. You start the game with 100 res, and on an average map there are 10 res nodes...wait...thats not a flaw at all, since 2 of them are already capped (1 marine 1 alien). That leaves you with enough res to cap every node except one within 10 seconds, and of course that one will be the one farthest away from the alien base.
So, on second thought, the only counter I can think of is for the aliens to rush your poorly defended base, and even though you have no investment there and can recycle and move on easily enough, you just spent ALL of your res, so it will be a while before you earn enough to do that.
Use vents to get around, and zoom past the Onii. Get into the hives and knife 'em to death! If there is only 1 player on Aliens, the Onos will have to either evolve to another species, or watch helplessly as you knife t3h hiev!11!!!oen1!
marines OWNED.
I dropped most of the nodes and only cut off one gorge, but the other skulks ran around and tried to bite my nodes. In the meantime I sent my marines to their res node and blew it away. and then whenever they killed a node I'd replace it before they dropped it. Occasionally they'd manage to drop it and 2 marines would immediately set to killing it before it could pay for itself.
Its faster for a marine to build a node than a skulk to eat it. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Next point of interest is that because skulks are too busy eating nodes marines don't need to worry about being eaten.
And lastly, those 2 nodes by their hive I didn't feel like constantly replacing so I just dropped a CC on them.
And, when they did start to evolve on the node so I couldn't kill it, I dropped a CC next to their egg but still on the node.
How did the game end?
My marines had jetpacks and full upgrades and knifed the hive to death. I love this strat.
This can't work in clan mathes, or would it...?
I dunno, 6 skulks could chew up all the nodes you could make...
But usually there are at least 2 gorges in every 6 man team...
I dunno, it sounds risky and hard to do but I think it might work.
The idea is to keep the marines as low on res as possible. It becomes difficult to get upgrades without creating a real base, which slows down the res prevention/building stage. As for actual times at the beginning of the game, a res node gives 1 rp every 4 seconds, so each alien gets 1 rp every 12 seconds. The player placing 2 mc's can do this at 1 minute into the game, and can suicide to go back to skulk, and can get celerity 7 seconds after spawning (note that they only have to place the chamber, not build it, since that can be done by the gorge saving for a hive). The player saving for hive will have to wait 5 minutes to put up a hive, assuming they don't die or spend any other res first.
Once again, I don't know how this would work, it was just an idea. Here's an idea to test it. Go on a small server, and tell the other team what you are going to do while in the ready room. Also tell them about this counter-tactic. See how it goes.
anyways, this strat is hillarious and far more effective than any "uber-strat" i've seen posted yet (ie, yours actually works). good job and thanks for sharing it!
I mean, assuming three v three, then 2 aliens attack the CC, one finds the 2 marines on the map. Commander drops new CC, so one marine builds, the other guards. Tailing skulk should be able to take out either the builder or guarder, by that point your MS CC should be gone and the 2 aliens would be en route to the relocate.
Again, aliens would be very concerned if they rush to an RT (usually as skulk, and evolving to gorge when they reach it) and then see it with a marine one on top, or see one suddenly appear. An immediate counter at that point could be devastating to marine spawn.
Now, of course, the counter is the relocate, and the great flexibility of this strat is that marines could relocate and instantly move into a tech rush game. Flexibility is strength, and in this case marines could be tech rushing with most of the RTs on the map, leaving aliens poorly equipped to adequately counter.
Of course with the changelogs indicating that "normal" NS must be played with 6 v 6, this type of strat might be quickly sidelined.
This is not an invulnrable Strat, just a ok one.. It can easilu be countered by a gorge placing an OC on top of or below the RT. If placced properly it will kill the RT and prevent you from dropping an RT since there will be a blocking alien structure.
All you can do is try and Electrify the RT, however if anything else is damaging the RT (including a gorge doing about 15-20 spit attacks) the upgrade will not be finished in time.
Worst of all aliens can still place a RC on that node if the OC is only about halfway on the nozzel, because the alien version of the RT has less required base contact with the node. Worst case it will be a hostile block to both teams.. which isn't so bad for the aliens.
Both sides will still get res from killing each other, so it comes down to more or less which team has more effective killers.
Remeber a Gorge drops self building structures. Playing as an alien, we defeated their com by the segment of us that were gorges dropping 2 OC's on each node, and going to the next. In about 3 minutes we destroyed almost all the rine RT's and built RC's at about half the ones we killed. Sine this only took about half our team, the other half continously ambushed the 2 man teams of marines that tryed to save each node (since it was clear to us where they were headed, it was east to skulk ambush).
Just keep in mind that there is no 'perfect' strategy, I do admit this is an effective one that I have used in about 1/4 of my games as com, and about 1/2 my games as aliens a just begin as a permagorge using the counter from the beginning.
game over....also it is gonan take those oc's and ur spit along time to kill the dummy nodes and if they drop on the nodes themselves i don't believe u can build a res node if u put ur own oc on them? also one skulk will not kill my medspammed shotty marines...right outside of ur base
"but i'm assuming a med spam will keep them alive and i'll place my building next to a soon to be electrified res"
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doubtful since noone's in the commchair, and placing the building near a "soon to be electrified res" would be risky if you haven't a chance to elec it before the skulks rip your current cc to small tiny pieces.
There's likely a counter to this as well, such as deliberately placing a CC somewhere near a pre-electrified node - I know this possibility. The problem is that you've to get the CC built, so a fast moving scout skulk could find it and tag it while his two friends have a go at marine spawn. If they leave the IP up in marine spawn, then your forces will get split, which could be fatal in small games.
Again, there's probably a counter to this too - but the point is that if you're using this strat, you need to be fully aware of the possibilities. Too many people copy strats then whine when it doesn't work. The fact is copying strats without understanding will very rarely work. Word of warning for you budding comms out there.
However, at the same time, should you fail to do ANYTHING, you'll lose anyhow. So for aliens it very much becomes "do or die".