<!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 26 2003, 08:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 26 2003, 08:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the fundamentalist view is one that should not be employed when interpreting the book of revelations. If it is taken as code for future events one misses the overtones of myth and symbolism.
I believe the symbolic message we get from the text is that we cause our own downfall. The metaphor is that god will unleash his wrath on the world for their ignorance. Yet god is only a metaphor for ourselves, and our ignorance will lead to the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats EXACTLY what I would love to think, if only to make myself sleep easier at night. But I dont read it with the "How can I make this fit with my view of things", I read it with a "What can I learn from this, what does it have to tell me?" attitude. FACT: The people who wrote that meant it to be taken literally. So why shouldn't I either A)Assume that they are lying, or B) Take it the way they wrote it and intended it - literally?
The end of the world will be caused by a General in the pentagon just "trying to get a goddamned paragraph printed out" on a huge ****ing computer and he smashes it with a hammer and boom. The whole world blows up.
<!--QuoteBegin--P-Khan+Oct 26 2003, 12:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (P-Khan @ Oct 26 2003, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are also other posibilities, such as the explosion of a neutron star (not sure if it is exactly this, but is has something to do with neutrons or neutrinos). This explosion could occur further away than Pluto, and would still cause the Earth to become a huge microwave. Some say that Earth has been lucky. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Doubtful. Neutron stars' either collapse into a black hole, or neutrons will convert to quarks, or/and eventually to photons, and that's over trillions of years, and wouldn't do much.
Well if the sun can't do the work then science has proven the entire universe will be destroyed in a small amount of years. Something alone the line of 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 years. Yeah its a small number but science is fun! They say around then the universe will be basically 2 blackholes devouring each other.
Thats the NEAREST star. Most neighbouring stars are further away, 61 Cygni is around the 10 LY mark, 300,000 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 * 10 = 94,608,000,000,000 Kilometers away.
The distances between the stars in our galaxy alone are so large that the chance of collision is almost negligible. The only appreciable chance of collision would be in the galactic centre, which will be home to a bunch of lifeless red dwarfs, white dwarfs, or neutron stars by the time Andromeda arrives.
The Galaxy is like the Atom in it's nature. It's mostly empty space.
The only thing that will happen when Andromeda collides with the Milky way will be a bigger better galaxy with more stars, more matter, and of course, an even bigger and more monstrous mother of all black holes keeping it all together at the centre.
Here is an interesting bit. 2 pulsars (deep space, high radiation, high gravity, dense, dead stars that emit ALOT of radio waves) are in our galaxy, and are orbiting each other faster and faster every year, and soon they will collide into each other, nobody can predict what will happen, but it cant be good
As for the world, rubber duckies will fall from the skies and cudgel everyone to death. Theres for your "least expected" happening. GG bathtime.
The collision of two neutron stars is theorised to produce a black hole, since their combined mass would in theory be sufficient to overcome the speed of light and suck it back in (creating the blackness).
In any case, it dosent matter. That event has already occured. It's just that due to the Speed Of Light we are seeing it however it was by the number of light years ago.
Example, Andromeda is 2 Million LY away. Therefore, we see it not as it is today, but as it was 2 Million years ago.
Another example, the Aliens are watching us from 4 1/3 LY away. Therefore, they havent even found out about 9/11, NS hasnt even been released and CS was still in beta. Not to mention the Ping is horrendous.
In any case, if a star of any kind were to come near the solar system, we would probably discover it by gravitational perturbations before direct observation.
I wouldn't take Revelations too seriously, as it was mostly written to encourage Christian churches in Asia Minor while they were being persecuted by the Romans. The letter is full of symbolism and code to allow its author to criticize the Romans without them knowing. For example, the famous "666" is formed by converting the Hebrew letters for "Nero Caesar" into Hebrew numbers.
I haven't thought much about apocalypse theories in the past, but one has recently caught my attention. It isn't a prediction of how the world will end, but instead a description of major events that will change the world (especially America) significantly. The link is <a href='http://www.johntitor.com' target='_blank'>here</a>, think what you will. I don't believe it wholly (doing so would require me to believe in time travel), but it's still interesting.
<!--QuoteBegin--Marine01+Oct 26 2003, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Oct 26 2003, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 26 2003, 08:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 26 2003, 08:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the fundamentalist view is one that should not be employed when interpreting the book of revelations. If it is taken as code for future events one misses the overtones of myth and symbolism.
I believe the symbolic message we get from the text is that we cause our own downfall. The metaphor is that god will unleash his wrath on the world for their ignorance. Yet god is only a metaphor for ourselves, and our ignorance will lead to the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats EXACTLY what I would love to think, if only to make myself sleep easier at night. But I dont read it with the "How can I make this fit with my view of things", I read it with a "What can I learn from this, what does it have to tell me?" attitude. FACT: The people who wrote that meant it to be taken literally. So why shouldn't I either A)Assume that they are lying, or B) Take it the way they wrote it and intended it - literally? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days.
A. Human kinds extinction? (I think thats what most peopleare assuming.)
B. When the current universe ceases to exist.
C. People start getting bored of NS and they all leave and flayra is left to flounder by himself in an ocean of diluted tomato sauce. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> (NOOOOOOOO, huddles up in a corner swinging back and forth rapidly dont go NS please dont go, its not going is it johnny? is it? JOHNNY??? IS NS GOING AWAY JOHNNY?!?!?!?!)
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> ^ || Oh no they r coming , what shall we do, is this the end of the world??? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Kage+Oct 26 2003, 10:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kage @ Oct 26 2003, 10:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I wouldn't take Revelations too seriously, as it was mostly written to encourage Christian churches in Asia Minor while they were being persecuted by the Romans. The letter is full of symbolism and code to allow its author to criticize the Romans without them knowing. For example, the famous "666" is formed by converting the Hebrew letters for "Nero Caesar" into Hebrew numbers.
I haven't thought much about apocalypse theories in the past, but one has recently caught my attention. It isn't a prediction of how the world will end, but instead a description of major events that will change the world (especially America) significantly. The link is <a href='http://www.johntitor.com' target='_blank'>here</a>, think what you will. I don't believe it wholly (doing so would require me to believe in time travel), but it's still interesting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That is really creepy. I guess we find out in 2005, huh.
<!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 26 2003, 10:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 26 2003, 10:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Marine01+Oct 26 2003, 05:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Oct 26 2003, 05:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 26 2003, 08:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 26 2003, 08:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the fundamentalist view is one that should not be employed when interpreting the book of revelations. If it is taken as code for future events one misses the overtones of myth and symbolism.
I believe the symbolic message we get from the text is that we cause our own downfall. The metaphor is that god will unleash his wrath on the world for their ignorance. Yet god is only a metaphor for ourselves, and our ignorance will lead to the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats EXACTLY what I would love to think, if only to make myself sleep easier at night. But I dont read it with the "How can I make this fit with my view of things", I read it with a "What can I learn from this, what does it have to tell me?" attitude. FACT: The people who wrote that meant it to be taken literally. So why shouldn't I either A)Assume that they are lying, or B) Take it the way they wrote it and intended it - literally? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> False beliefs come from watering down a concrete truth to fit the mold of what we want it to think. How else would we have such a work-based focus on working to attain God's favor, when Christ's death made that all possible 2000 years ago? Fundementalism, emplied correctly, smartly(checking the original texts against translation, harmonizing texts), and with caution, does nothing but remind us of exactly what we are supposed to be reminded of.
Seeing the inspired word of God as nothing but moral texts is NOT an option Jesus left open. You either accept Him as Christ, or you dismiss Him as a lunatic. There is no third option.
<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Oct 27 2003, 08:13 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Oct 27 2003, 08:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That is really creepy. I guess we find out in 2005, huh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, unfortunately that's the year I turn 18.
I find it really strange that often those who say "Dont read into it too much" are usually those with a very vague belief, and no historical/language scholars to back them up, while the "fundamentalists" always seem to be the most interested in their religion, and with more expert backup then you can poke a stick at.
For the rest of what I was going to say, see legions post.
<!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 27 2003, 04:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 27 2003, 04:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> in the contrary, it appears to me things are being taken less literally
<!--QuoteBegin--Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Oct 27 2003, 09:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Oct 27 2003, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 27 2003, 04:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 27 2003, 04:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> in the contrary, it appears to me things are being taken less literally <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, now. But after these stories were published in the symbolic sense, people started to take them literally, and thus built religious systems of beliefs. These days as science becomes more prominent people are starting to take these stories less literally, the way intended. Yet a lot of people still take every word of the bible in the literal sense, which is just the wrong way to interpret it imo.
It's a misconception to think that an inspired text must mean one thing only. For example, check the Gospel of St Matthew. The writings Matthew alludes to as foreshadowing the Messiah in the OT, when you look them up, turn out to be no prophecies at all; in fact they're sometimes recollection of past events (e.g. 2:16).
Some conclude from that that Matthew was a moron who didn't understand the OT. The other possibility is that Matthew saw the works of God transcend time, and the history of Israel fulfilled in the life of Christ.
Now, it's quite likely that John's revelation contained a message for his contemporary brethren, encoded in OT symbolism. I find the allusions to Rome rather striking. But at the same time it describes a breathtaking eschatological vision, the unraveling of creation itself.
There is no need for us to look for specific events in our times to correspond with the imagery. Jehovah's Witnesses do, making fools of themselves again and again.
The seven letters to the churches were written in code, reffering to OT stories to describe the situation the churches were in in the present. As for the rest of revelation, i dont think anybody knows if it is literal or not, and i dont think it is important. the message is that God is going to eradicate evil, and that is all thats important.
<!--QuoteBegin--uranium - 235+Oct 26 2003, 06:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (uranium - 235 @ Oct 26 2003, 06:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--P-Khan+Oct 26 2003, 12:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (P-Khan @ Oct 26 2003, 12:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> There are also other posibilities, such as the explosion of a neutron star (not sure if it is exactly this, but is has something to do with neutrons or neutrinos). This explosion could occur further away than Pluto, and would still cause the Earth to become a huge microwave. Some say that Earth has been lucky. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Doubtful. Neutron stars' either collapse into a black hole, or neutrons will convert to quarks, or/and eventually to photons, and that's over trillions of years, and wouldn't do much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I said it's something related to neutron. I ain't sure if it is a neutron star which will colpase, but there have been certain explosions registered throughout the galazy which happen to release a whole lot of micro-waves, neutrons and neutrinos. Just forgot what they are called.
<!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 27 2003, 10:05 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 27 2003, 10:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Oct 27 2003, 09:30 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Oct 27 2003, 09:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---spidermonkey-+Oct 27 2003, 04:10 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-spidermonkey- @ Oct 27 2003, 04:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> in the contrary, it appears to me things are being taken less literally <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, now. But after these stories were published in the symbolic sense, people started to take them literally, and thus built religious systems of beliefs. These days as science becomes more prominent people are starting to take these stories less literally, the way intended. Yet a lot of people still take every word of the bible in the literal sense, which is just the wrong way to interpret it imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The people who wrote those documents weren't philosophers, they were the people who actually saw Christ ressurected, the people who were crucified for that belief. Their writings aren't a speculative analisys of human nature, they are a commentary on what God himself showed them.
Remember, these were Jesus' friends, disciples, and believers, they weren't trying to talk about what it is that makes up human, what is real, or what is true, they KNEW what was was right, true, and what God himself said, and were trying to pass that knowledge on.
<a href='http://www.pastornet.net.au/jmm/ahmr/ahmr0142.htm' target='_blank'>Take a gander at this.</a>
Bill Gates III = 666! Ooooh! Scary!
Don't read too much into it. There are patterns you can find all over the place that equal 666. It is meaningless. Assuming they are right, however, well we, being all on the internet, are all damned since www can be interpretted as 666.
You can look at that link and either think "mss hysteria" or "paranoia." Your pick.
<!--QuoteBegin--Legionnaired+Oct 27 2003, 05:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Legionnaired @ Oct 27 2003, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The people who wrote those documents weren't philosophers, they were the people who actually saw Christ ressurected, the people who were crucified for that belief. Their writings aren't a speculative analisys of human nature, they are a commentary on what God himself showed them.
Remember, these were Jesus' friends, disciples, and believers, they weren't trying to talk about what it is that makes up human, what is real, or what is true, they KNEW what was was right, true, and what God himself said, and were trying to pass that knowledge on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok, you look into any historic records of that time and you'll hardly find a mention of jesus. Nothing was written about jesus in his historical time until a decade after his death, and this was filtered through later beliefs and dogma. Likewise, revelations is not historical document, don't read it as one.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ok, you look into any historic records of that time and you'll hardly find a mention of jesus.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->And how many historical records, apart from the Bible, do you think are left from that time? How many of those had a reason to mention a local prophet and wonderworker?
Isn't it a bit strange, methodologically, to discard outright the largest, most well-preserved body of texts humanity knows just because you disagree with the conclusion of its authors, by using its excellent state and accuracy as an argument <i>against</i> its credibility?
Out of curiosity, how many "independent" records did you need to read before you believed that Julius Caesar or Socrates really existed?
There is actually atleast one third party document talking about Jesus. there is no doubt that he did exist. Whether he was the messiah or not is another matter
The point is jesus did not make a splash in historical scriptures as his messiah-like qualities should have enabled him to. I don't doubt jesus' existance, though i doubt the stories and exaggerations the people have made up about him.
I don't doubt the values or conclusions of the writings of the bible. My doubt is in the interpretations of the people reading it, especially fundementalists.
Comments
I believe the symbolic message we get from the text is that we cause our own downfall. The metaphor is that god will unleash his wrath on the world for their ignorance. Yet god is only a metaphor for ourselves, and our ignorance will lead to the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats EXACTLY what I would love to think, if only to make myself sleep easier at night. But I dont read it with the "How can I make this fit with my view of things", I read it with a "What can I learn from this, what does it have to tell me?" attitude. FACT: The people who wrote that meant it to be taken literally. So why shouldn't I either A)Assume that they are lying, or B) Take it the way they wrote it and intended it - literally?
doesnt that strike you as a little.. how you say... far fetched?
so that will be interesting
Doubtful. Neutron stars' either collapse into a black hole, or neutrons will convert to quarks, or/and eventually to photons, and that's over trillions of years, and wouldn't do much.
The collision of two galaxies does not in any way resemble the collision of two solid objects, because galaxies ARE NOT SOLID OBJECTS!
The space between the stars is truly enourmous, take Alpha Centauri, 4 1/3 light years away.
300,000 * 60 * 60 *24 * 365 * 4 1/3 = 40,996,800,000,000 Kilometers away
Thats the NEAREST star. Most neighbouring stars are further away, 61 Cygni is around the 10 LY mark, 300,000 * 60 * 60 * 24 * 365 * 10 = 94,608,000,000,000 Kilometers away.
The distances between the stars in our galaxy alone are so large that the chance of collision is almost negligible. The only appreciable chance of collision would be in the galactic centre, which will be home to a bunch of lifeless red dwarfs, white dwarfs, or neutron stars by the time Andromeda arrives.
The Galaxy is like the Atom in it's nature. It's mostly empty space.
The only thing that will happen when Andromeda collides with the Milky way will be a bigger better galaxy with more stars, more matter, and of course, an even bigger and more monstrous mother of all black holes keeping it all together at the centre.
As for the world, rubber duckies will fall from the skies and cudgel everyone to death. Theres for your "least expected" happening. GG bathtime.
In any case, it dosent matter. That event has already occured. It's just that due to the Speed Of Light we are seeing it however it was by the number of light years ago.
Example, Andromeda is 2 Million LY away. Therefore, we see it not as it is today, but as it was 2 Million years ago.
Another example, the Aliens are watching us from 4 1/3 LY away. Therefore, they havent even found out about 9/11, NS hasnt even been released and CS was still in beta. Not to mention the Ping is horrendous.
In any case, if a star of any kind were to come near the solar system, we would probably discover it by gravitational perturbations before direct observation.
I haven't thought much about apocalypse theories in the past, but one has recently caught my attention. It isn't a prediction of how the world will end, but instead a description of major events that will change the world (especially America) significantly. The link is <a href='http://www.johntitor.com' target='_blank'>here</a>, think what you will. I don't believe it wholly (doing so would require me to believe in time travel), but it's still interesting.
I believe the symbolic message we get from the text is that we cause our own downfall. The metaphor is that god will unleash his wrath on the world for their ignorance. Yet god is only a metaphor for ourselves, and our ignorance will lead to the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats EXACTLY what I would love to think, if only to make myself sleep easier at night. But I dont read it with the "How can I make this fit with my view of things", I read it with a "What can I learn from this, what does it have to tell me?" attitude. FACT: The people who wrote that meant it to be taken literally. So why shouldn't I either A)Assume that they are lying, or B) Take it the way they wrote it and intended it - literally? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days.
is it...
A. Human kinds extinction? (I think thats what most peopleare assuming.)
B. When the current universe ceases to exist.
C. People start getting bored of NS and they all leave and flayra is left to flounder by himself in an ocean of diluted tomato sauce. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> (NOOOOOOOO, huddles up in a corner swinging back and forth rapidly dont go NS please dont go, its not going is it johnny? is it? JOHNNY??? IS NS GOING AWAY JOHNNY?!?!?!?!)
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
^
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Oh no they r coming , what shall we do, is this the end of the world??? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I haven't thought much about apocalypse theories in the past, but one has recently caught my attention. It isn't a prediction of how the world will end, but instead a description of major events that will change the world (especially America) significantly. The link is <a href='http://www.johntitor.com' target='_blank'>here</a>, think what you will. I don't believe it wholly (doing so would require me to believe in time travel), but it's still interesting. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is really creepy. I guess we find out in 2005, huh.
I believe the symbolic message we get from the text is that we cause our own downfall. The metaphor is that god will unleash his wrath on the world for their ignorance. Yet god is only a metaphor for ourselves, and our ignorance will lead to the end of the world. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats EXACTLY what I would love to think, if only to make myself sleep easier at night. But I dont read it with the "How can I make this fit with my view of things", I read it with a "What can I learn from this, what does it have to tell me?" attitude. FACT: The people who wrote that meant it to be taken literally. So why shouldn't I either A)Assume that they are lying, or B) Take it the way they wrote it and intended it - literally? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think it was written in the literal sense, or meant to be taken literally. They are things that have gradually been taken more literally. Fundementalism is a dangerous thing, you miss the message of the text, and i think thats the reason people have so many false beliefs these days. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
False beliefs come from watering down a concrete truth to fit the mold of what we want it to think. How else would we have such a work-based focus on working to attain God's favor, when Christ's death made that all possible 2000 years ago? Fundementalism, emplied correctly, smartly(checking the original texts against translation, harmonizing texts), and with caution, does nothing but remind us of exactly what we are supposed to be reminded of.
Seeing the inspired word of God as nothing but moral texts is NOT an option Jesus left open. You either accept Him as Christ, or you dismiss Him as a lunatic. There is no third option.
Yeah, unfortunately that's the year I turn 18.
For the rest of what I was going to say, see legions post.
in the contrary, it appears to me things are being taken less literally
in the contrary, it appears to me things are being taken less literally <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, now. But after these stories were published in the symbolic sense, people started to take them literally, and thus built religious systems of beliefs. These days as science becomes more prominent people are starting to take these stories less literally, the way intended. Yet a lot of people still take every word of the bible in the literal sense, which is just the wrong way to interpret it imo.
Some conclude from that that Matthew was a moron who didn't understand the OT. The other possibility is that Matthew saw the works of God transcend time, and the history of Israel fulfilled in the life of Christ.
Now, it's quite likely that John's revelation contained a message for his contemporary brethren, encoded in OT symbolism. I find the allusions to Rome rather striking. But at the same time it describes a breathtaking eschatological vision, the unraveling of creation itself.
There is no need for us to look for specific events in our times to correspond with the imagery. Jehovah's Witnesses do, making fools of themselves again and again.
Doubtful. Neutron stars' either collapse into a black hole, or neutrons will convert to quarks, or/and eventually to photons, and that's over trillions of years, and wouldn't do much. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said it's something related to neutron. I ain't sure if it is a neutron star which will colpase, but there have been certain explosions registered throughout the galazy which happen to release a whole lot of micro-waves, neutrons and neutrinos. Just forgot what they are called.
they form black holes if they are large enough. the outer layers explode away while the inner layers collapse
in the contrary, it appears to me things are being taken less literally <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, now. But after these stories were published in the symbolic sense, people started to take them literally, and thus built religious systems of beliefs. These days as science becomes more prominent people are starting to take these stories less literally, the way intended. Yet a lot of people still take every word of the bible in the literal sense, which is just the wrong way to interpret it imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The people who wrote those documents weren't philosophers, they were the people who actually saw Christ ressurected, the people who were crucified for that belief. Their writings aren't a speculative analisys of human nature, they are a commentary on what God himself showed them.
Remember, these were Jesus' friends, disciples, and believers, they weren't trying to talk about what it is that makes up human, what is real, or what is true, they KNEW what was was right, true, and what God himself said, and were trying to pass that knowledge on.
Bill Gates III = 666! Ooooh! Scary!
Don't read too much into it. There are patterns you can find all over the place that equal 666. It is meaningless.
Assuming they are right, however, well we, being all on the internet, are all damned since www can be interpretted as 666.
You can look at that link and either think "mss hysteria" or "paranoia." Your pick.
Remember, these were Jesus' friends, disciples, and believers, they weren't trying to talk about what it is that makes up human, what is real, or what is true, they KNEW what was was right, true, and what God himself said, and were trying to pass that knowledge on. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, you look into any historic records of that time and you'll hardly find a mention of jesus. Nothing was written about jesus in his historical time until a decade after his death, and this was filtered through later beliefs and dogma. Likewise, revelations is not historical document, don't read it as one.
Isn't it a bit strange, methodologically, to discard outright the largest, most well-preserved body of texts humanity knows just because you disagree with the conclusion of its authors, by using its excellent state and accuracy as an argument <i>against</i> its credibility?
Out of curiosity, how many "independent" records did you need to read before you believed that Julius Caesar or Socrates really existed?
A collection of end-of-world scenarios. A rather nice read.
I don't doubt the values or conclusions of the writings of the bible. My doubt is in the interpretations of the people reading it, especially fundementalists.