a looong time ago, in DOD, people used to pull crap with _special by making scripts for the shovel and knife. they didn't exactly disrupt the balance of the game, but it was cheating nonetheless. some more adventurous players used it to make the m1carbine full auto, which was definately unfair. i'm guessing that would be similar to a pistol h4x script. i'm not sure whether or not they fixed it, but i haven't seen it in forever.
i would imagine that all of these h4x and such came from CS, no suprise.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ugly_Jim+Nov 4 2003, 01:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ugly_Jim @ Nov 4 2003, 01:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> didnt NS used to have antiscripting? special worked in 1.0x but not in 2.0x. why was antiscripting taken out? maybe for communication scripts i guess. ah well. no _special will make the hamptons a better place for all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you can get an anti-scripting admin plugin, but as far as I know it's never been part of NS itself.
Those plugins are kinda irritating, btw. They tend to kill useful scripts as well, and one of them broke my commander script.
Look, it's my opinion that a script is a script. It does something FOR you, and in the ideal competitive setting you should be doing EVERYTHING. So I don't think anyone should be concerned if the removal of _special breaks scripts other than a jump script or pistol script. That said, if the removal of _special isn't going to stop jump and pistol scripts, what is the point? And it is true the mousewheel can do what both these scripts can just about as well. I think it would be a lot better if scripts were just outlawed completely, and we could use some program (or ns itself) to check the autoconfig, config, and any config executed in those configs for the word "alias". If that word exists, just kick the user.
If some of you are confused as to my stance on this due to my previous arguements, my previous arguements were agianst the demonization of those using scripts to stay competitive, since they are legal in CAL. I'm all for an "ideal competitive setting" or as close to it as we can get.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ugly_Jim+Nov 4 2003, 07:09 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ugly_Jim @ Nov 4 2003, 07:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> didnt NS used to have antiscripting? special worked in 1.0x but not in 2.0x. why was antiscripting taken out? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well... /me changes between leap and bite *sees a marine* LEAP!!1 /me switches to bite one millisecond after using leap due to having bound "lastinv" to convenient button /me dies from antiscripting
It hurt more than help. Especially when ONOS started dying...due to lag.
Scripting allows people to do things quickly...that is it, in NS I have seen little to no use for scripting, not that I am against scripts, there really isn't anything that you need scripting for as a marine.
As far as any script that gives an unfair advantage, that is up to the developers to decide if they want to keep it or remove it.
Complaining about scripting is useless, so what if I can make it so that when I jump I crouch at the same time, or I have a key to toggle crouch on and off, or walk on and off....so what if I can stop a reload of my LMG and take out a skulk that thought I was an easy meal. These are scripts I could write in ten minutes and it would do anything to the way the game is played.
Now as far as CAL and any game played online, the only way you will ever make it completely fair and equal playing ground is by making everyone play on the same PC, with the same exact settings, the same ping, with the same mouse, keyboard, headset, and mouse. This is the only fair way to compete.
I have spent several 100's of dollars on making my gaming experience better, optical mouse, good headset, bigger monitor and a better video card. Would that mean that I should be banned because I play against someone that doesn't have an optical mouse, no...it just means I have taken more interest in the game, and that is what scripting is.
I have written several scripts for CS, I have a package that I made, one thing I know a lot about (even though I am rusty at it) is how to write and implement scripts in a game. There is nothing that scripts can do that I can't do, it just lets me do it faster...(just like an optical mouse has better accuracy than a ball mouse)
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There isn't 1 script in ns that is required for you to stay comepetitive. One team beating another never has anything to do with scripts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that were true, then no one would have a problem with people using scripts, now would they? The fact is, a pistol script, or a jumping script DOES give you an advantage. It doesn't turn everybody into a shampoo, but it does make a difference and narrow the skill gap. I use scripts because everyone has them now, and I'm not going to put my self at a disadvantage just because I don't like scripts. They're legal, so I'll use em.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Nov 4 2003, 03:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Nov 4 2003, 03:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There isn't 1 script in ns that is required for you to stay comepetitive. One team beating another never has anything to do with scripts.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that were true, then no one would have a problem with people using scripts, now would they? The fact is, a pistol script, or a jumping script DOES give you an advantage. It doesn't turn everybody into a shampoo, but it does make a difference and narrow the skill gap. I use scripts because everyone has them now, and I'm not going to put my self at a disadvantage just because I don't like scripts. They're legal, so I'll use em. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I never have any problem competing with people that use scripts. Take you vs me for example: I'm not as good as you, but I know it has nothing to do with the scripts you use. You are just a better fps player than I am. But take anyone that is at about my skill level, add a few scripts, it won't change anything.
xeNixx~ I never gave much thought to what other people think. I have my own set of beliefs and morals, and I stick to them. Scripts are legal, so I use them. That doesn't mean I like them. But I will use every legal advantage I can that I don't find morally distastful, or feel go against the spirit of the rules. I'll pump up my gamma, I'll use scripts, I'll have a big **** monitor, optical mouse, fast computer, etc because when I compete, I want to do so knowing that I'm at least even with everyone else.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Nov 4 2003, 06:07 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Nov 4 2003, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> xeNixx~ I never gave much thought to what other people think. I have my own set of beliefs and morals, and I stick to them. Scripts are legal, so I use them. That doesn't mean I like them. But I will use every legal advantage I can that I don't find morally distastful, or feel go against the spirit of the rules. I'll pump up my gamma, I'll use scripts, I'll have a big **** monitor, optical mouse, fast computer, etc because when I compete, I want to do so knowing that I'm at least even with everyone else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not exactly morals, but the lack of them eh?
Well imho all scripts do is exhange speed/efficiency for control.
Example rapid fire pistol script, yes I am sure it is very powerful but if you miss, then what? You are a sitting duck (If you are using it as LMG back up). If not then if you missed you have no back up and failed to hurt the alien about to eat your face.
If you made HAM <insert top clan> play with default then I bet they'd still kill everything in sight. In fact for most if not all it wouldn't change a thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--Kid-A+Nov 4 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kid-A @ Nov 4 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well imho all scripts do is exhange speed/efficiency for control.
Example rapid fire pistol script, yes I am sure it is very powerful but if you miss, then what? You are a sitting duck (If you are using it as LMG back up). If not then if you missed you have no back up and failed to hurt the alien about to eat your face.
If you made HAM <insert top clan> play with default then I bet they'd still kill everything in sight. In fact for most if not all it wouldn't change a thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> if you miss . you will miss regardless of if your scripting or not.
I feel I must correct the grave injustice towards scripters most of you seem to do us. Nobody who understands scripting would blanketly label scripters as lacking skill, or worse, as cheaters.
A script is a series of automated instructions. Nothing more, nothing less. They cannot react to situations. They cannot do your thinking for you. They can only, well, execute instructions.
Broadly speaking, there are three categories of scripts.
<b>1: Utility scripts</b> These are scripts which do nothing more than make life easier. They bestow no ungodly powers on their users, but they're useful. For example, I use a script which rebinds my keypad to a series of different menus, from which I can select evolutions, chambers to build, and do a few fiddly things like change my netgraph or volume. I also use a script which toggles duck on and off when I press it. I've got one to toggle voicecom on and off instead of simply pressing it.
These scripts do not give me any kind of advantage over other players. Whatsoever. You could argue that I can drop chambers and select evolutions faster than someone using the right-click menu, and this is true. The only problem with this thinking is that these are freely available to bind through the options menu. All I'm doing is customising my interface.
<b>2: Combat maneuver scripts</b> Scripts which switch to a weapon, attack, and switch back, scripts which combine attacks into combos etc. fall under this category. Anyone who isn't experienced enough to switch their weapons fast enough to perform complex maneuvers would consider such scripts a blessing (or, an unfair advantage depending on whether they're on the recieving end or not). For example, you could write an onos script with, with the push of a button: switches to stomp, stomps, switches to devour, lowers your view to devour perfectly, moves you forward, and devours.
The fact is, as any scripter will tell you, a script such as this is entirely useless. Especially one as compilcated as this. If you were to hit this script button, you wouldn't be able to do anything else while the script is executing. What if you miss? The whole operation is carried out even though you won't hit anything. It's also extremely inflexible - you can't use it to stomp a whole bunch of marines and target a specific one. The script cannot abort, and it cannot respond to events happening in the game and decide what to do based on them.
The classic example is the rocket jump script. It sounds lovely - a perfect rocket jump every time. Provided you have a custom rocket jump script for every different height you want to reach. Provided you don't mind not being able to use rocket jumps to access more unconventional locations, at different altitudes to the usual spots. Almost completely useless.
There's also the fact that such scripts are clunky, and don't work very well in themselves. For a long time, when I played TFC, I had a script which switched to my knife and attacked while I held the key down, and then switched back to my previous weapon when I released it. Eventually, I abandoned it in favour of simply moving my knife key closer, because the script had a habit of getting stuck at the crucial moment. I found that this was far more effective. After all, even if it worked properly there was the time delay in switching weapon <i>every single time</i> I wanted to make an attack.
Actually, I thought it would be cool to set up a script so that, instead of switching to each alien weapon, the keys performed them. It makes sense - a real creature would be able to perform any attack without "switching" to it first, right? It turned out to be a disaster. Since you're trying to do something the game wasn't designed to do, it just doesn't work very well. Once again, it adds a time overhead to all of your attacks. The fact is, even if you can get such a script to work it doesn't do much more than force you to re-learn how to play, in a different style.
In short: these scripts offer no advantages. They're fool's gold: they look like they can do a lot, but are inflexible and cause more problems for their users than they solve. They certainly won't win you the game by themselves.
<b>3: Exploit scripts</b> I'm going to classify bunnyhopping scripts in here, because I personally believe bunnyhopping to be an exploit. Anything which exploits a bug in the engine or game code belongs in this category. Some bugs possibly require a script to exploit because of the difficulty envolved in consistently pulling it off manually.
I'm not going to defend the use of scripts to cheat. I don't condone bug exploits. I would like to point out, however, that while scripts may make it easier to exploit a bug they are seldom the actual cause of the exploit itself. In this particular case, yes I don't see anything wrong with squashing the <span style='font-family:Courier'>_special</span> command because, well, I can't think of a single legitimate use for it. The fact is, the command itself doesn't create the exploits it is employed to take advantage of.
In closing, if you're a purist who doesn't believe in scripting: good for you. Whatever works. If you're a pro-scripter who has scripts to perform all kinds of complicated maneuvers: good for you. Whatever works. Whatever suits your play style. May I point out that, while I am pro-scripting, I don't use scripts for combat because they don't give me the flexibility I need.
Scripts aren't evil, they aren't unfair, they aren't a sign of lack of skill, and when all is said and done it's very seldom that they offer any actual advantage.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm going to classify bunnyhopping scripts in here, because I personally believe bunnyhopping to be an exploit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens? I suppose you can personally believe anything, but most people around here are just going to laugh at you for calling bunnyhopping an exploit.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you miss . you will miss regardless of if your scripting or not.
thats a non issue. as lucid said. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But you can aim better when just holding down a button rather than furiously mashing it. If it was a non issue, then WHY IS THIS THREAD HERE. I don't understand how someone can claim scripts don't make any difference, when this whole thread is about people who want them removed because they DO. If you take the stance that they don't make a difference, then you shouldn't care if _special is removed correct? So why are you even posting?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not exactly morals, but the lack of them eh? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It may be hard for someone as closed minded as you to squeeze this into your world view, but maybe, just maybe, two people can have morals that differ and neither one of them be wrong. Morals are personal held beliefs. There are some that are common to all, like not killing people, and then there are others that are subjective. Some people think drinking is wrong, others are fine with it. What matters is how you live by your beliefs, and not compromising for the wrong reasons.
<!--QuoteBegin--Sling_Blade+Nov 5 2003, 12:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sling_Blade @ Nov 5 2003, 12:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm going to classify bunnyhopping scripts in here, because I personally believe bunnyhopping to be an exploit.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens? I suppose you can personally believe anything, but most people around here are just going to laugh at you for calling bunnyhopping an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't really want to get into it. I've been through this argument too many times, and I don't have the energy for it again. But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?
Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that bunnyhop automating scripts are wrong because they're scripting bunnyhopping, I believe they're wrong because they <i>are</i> bunnyhopping.
1. When the game was developed, I'm sure bunnyhop wasn't inserted into the engine on purpose. With that said, bunnyhopping is an exploit. We all know it is an exploit, but those of us he use it want to think it is not. Bunnyhopping is exploitation of the engine, therefore it is an exploit. 2. Some gaming communities have accepted bunnyhopping, such as TFC. All top clanners are at about the same speed, and all aspiring clans strive to be exceptional bhoppers. They do not frown upon it, they know it is an exploit, but it is part of their game.
The NS community seems to have very conflicting views on bunnyhopping, but I personally accept it as part of NS, and I will practice it every day.....
<!--QuoteBegin--Impy_The_Lerk+Nov 4 2003, 09:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Impy_The_Lerk @ Nov 4 2003, 09:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Kid-A+Nov 4 2003, 06:56 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kid-A @ Nov 4 2003, 06:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well imho all scripts do is exhange speed/efficiency for control.
Example rapid fire pistol script, yes I am sure it is very powerful but if you miss, then what? You are a sitting duck (If you are using it as LMG back up). If not then if you missed you have no back up and failed to hurt the alien about to eat your face.
If you made HAM <insert top clan> play with default then I bet they'd still kill everything in sight. In fact for most if not all it wouldn't change a thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> if you miss . you will miss regardless of if your scripting or not.
thats a non issue. as lucid said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well you obviously missed the point about control. A rapid fire pistol script would mean that you fire all your bullets in essentially your first shot. Using the usual method (mouse1 usually) this would not happen and you could take a number of aimed shots than just one.
Agreed Kid-A, The ammount of control you can utilize with an _special script is rediculous. Spamming Left click at the same rate of the _special script, which fires at the maximum speed the engine will allow, and having the same aim/control is almost impossible. These pistol scripts give everyone using them an unfair edge over all other players.
Impy, as for your post on the irony of me coming out against scripters. 1. When have I ever stated I script 2. Why make a snide remark without talking with me or asking me if I script....... 3. If you are being repeatedly slaughtered by Nadagast, Syckness, Me, or any other member of envy for that matter, it has nothing to do with scripts. 4. What is ironic about a non-scripter coming out against scripters? Especially such unkown scripts with such amazing power?
please respond I would love to hear what you have to say
Actually e.Maven not agreed. I am saying a script <b>sacrifices</b> speed for control. And although can give a little advantage in some situations also gives a disadvantage in others.
Well, i've just been playing around with the command. I agree with the removal and i'll put forward the 2 main arguments i can see for why it should be removed. Those who know me know i'm very liberal on this issue and have no problem with the use of just about any game 'feature' intended or otherwise. This is somewhat different:
1. Use of this command 'breaks' the operation of the pistol. Single shot operation is a defining feature of the pistol, and this command removes that entirely. This is different to a standard pistol script, i have never made complaints about the use of mousewheels or similar scripting for pistols, as i believe anyone who uses or complains about these is kidding themselves. They are frankly pathetic, offering poor control or firing rates no different to quickly clicking the mouse with no real advantage. They are generally clumsy and pointless. Scripting the pistol with this command is a whole different ball game. There is no reason at all that you would prefer regular operation to this form of script, it makes the single-shot operation completely redundant. As i found this operation to be an interesting feature of the pistol, i do not agree with its removal, which is what this command effectively does. Note that my issue here is not with people who use this having an advantage over those who don't, i'm arguing that the situation of nobody using this form of pistol script would be preferable to everybody using it.
2. It is <b>very</b> obscure. I never pay much heed to 'unfair advantage' arguements, as i consider all forms of useful sripting or console commands to be accessable to all, and a valid feature of the game. I will write scripts for anyone who asks about them, the language is very simple, and none of it can be considered 'forbidden knowledge'. However, the use of this command in this way has managed to remain quite secretive and obscure. Which reeks of forbidden knowledge / don't tell them about this omgz. I'm not particularly keen on hiding features, there's nothing i make use of that i won't explain to anyone who asks about it. You could argue that since this command is now alot better known, a full explanation of its use would make this complaint irrelevant. If this command did not have negative connotations for the game (See point #1) i'd be happy with that.
Summing up, unlike marine hopping, i'm not going to argue the removal of this one :)
Comments
i would imagine that all of these h4x and such came from CS, no suprise.
you can get an anti-scripting admin plugin, but as far as I know it's never been part of NS itself.
Those plugins are kinda irritating, btw. They tend to kill useful scripts as well, and one of them broke my commander script.
If some of you are confused as to my stance on this due to my previous arguements, my previous arguements were agianst the demonization of those using scripts to stay competitive, since they are legal in CAL. I'm all for an "ideal competitive setting" or as close to it as we can get.
Well...
/me changes between leap and bite
*sees a marine*
LEAP!!1
/me switches to bite one millisecond after using leap due to having bound "lastinv" to convenient button
/me dies from antiscripting
It hurt more than help. Especially when ONOS started dying...due to lag.
is coming out agaisnt scripts.
Oh the irony.
As far as any script that gives an unfair advantage, that is up to the developers to decide if they want to keep it or remove it.
Complaining about scripting is useless, so what if I can make it so that when I jump I crouch at the same time, or I have a key to toggle crouch on and off, or walk on and off....so what if I can stop a reload of my LMG and take out a skulk that thought I was an easy meal. These are scripts I could write in ten minutes and it would do anything to the way the game is played.
Now as far as CAL and any game played online, the only way you will ever make it completely fair and equal playing ground is by making everyone play on the same PC, with the same exact settings, the same ping, with the same mouse, keyboard, headset, and mouse. This is the only fair way to compete.
I have spent several 100's of dollars on making my gaming experience better, optical mouse, good headset, bigger monitor and a better video card. Would that mean that I should be banned because I play against someone that doesn't have an optical mouse, no...it just means I have taken more interest in the game, and that is what scripting is.
I have written several scripts for CS, I have a package that I made, one thing I know a lot about (even though I am rusty at it) is how to write and implement scripts in a game. There is nothing that scripts can do that I can't do, it just lets me do it faster...(just like an optical mouse has better accuracy than a ball mouse)
I say we get in there and blow those abusing f%<#@*$ out! >)
If that were true, then no one would have a problem with people using scripts, now would they? The fact is, a pistol script, or a jumping script DOES give you an advantage. It doesn't turn everybody into a shampoo, but it does make a difference and narrow the skill gap. I use scripts because everyone has them now, and I'm not going to put my self at a disadvantage just because I don't like scripts. They're legal, so I'll use em.
If that were true, then no one would have a problem with people using scripts, now would they? The fact is, a pistol script, or a jumping script DOES give you an advantage. It doesn't turn everybody into a shampoo, but it does make a difference and narrow the skill gap. I use scripts because everyone has them now, and I'm not going to put my self at a disadvantage just because I don't like scripts. They're legal, so I'll use em. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never have any problem competing with people that use scripts. Take you vs me for example: I'm not as good as you, but I know it has nothing to do with the scripts you use. You are just a better fps player than I am. But take anyone that is at about my skill level, add a few scripts, it won't change anything.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
I have never scripted in my life, never given myself an unfair advantage in anyway and pride myself on the fact that vanilla me > vanilla you.
Thank you NS devs. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Not exactly morals, but the lack of them eh?
Example rapid fire pistol script, yes I am sure it is very powerful but if you miss, then what? You are a sitting duck (If you are using it as LMG back up). If not then if you missed you have no back up and failed to hurt the alien about to eat your face.
If you made HAM <insert top clan> play with default then I bet they'd still kill everything in sight. In fact for most if not all it wouldn't change a thing.
Example rapid fire pistol script, yes I am sure it is very powerful but if you miss, then what? You are a sitting duck (If you are using it as LMG back up). If not then if you missed you have no back up and failed to hurt the alien about to eat your face.
If you made HAM <insert top clan> play with default then I bet they'd still kill everything in sight. In fact for most if not all it wouldn't change a thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you miss . you will miss regardless of if your scripting or not.
thats a non issue. as lucid said.
I feel I must correct the grave injustice towards scripters most of you seem to do us. Nobody who understands scripting would blanketly label scripters as lacking skill, or worse, as cheaters.
A script is a series of automated instructions. Nothing more, nothing less. They cannot react to situations. They cannot do your thinking for you. They can only, well, execute instructions.
Broadly speaking, there are three categories of scripts.
<b>1: Utility scripts</b>
These are scripts which do nothing more than make life easier. They bestow no ungodly powers on their users, but they're useful. For example, I use a script which rebinds my keypad to a series of different menus, from which I can select evolutions, chambers to build, and do a few fiddly things like change my netgraph or volume. I also use a script which toggles duck on and off when I press it. I've got one to toggle voicecom on and off instead of simply pressing it.
These scripts do not give me any kind of advantage over other players. Whatsoever. You could argue that I can drop chambers and select evolutions faster than someone using the right-click menu, and this is true. The only problem with this thinking is that these are freely available to bind through the options menu. All I'm doing is customising my interface.
<b>2: Combat maneuver scripts</b>
Scripts which switch to a weapon, attack, and switch back, scripts which combine attacks into combos etc. fall under this category. Anyone who isn't experienced enough to switch their weapons fast enough to perform complex maneuvers would consider such scripts a blessing (or, an unfair advantage depending on whether they're on the recieving end or not). For example, you could write an onos script with, with the push of a button: switches to stomp, stomps, switches to devour, lowers your view to devour perfectly, moves you forward, and devours.
The fact is, as any scripter will tell you, a script such as this is entirely useless. Especially one as compilcated as this. If you were to hit this script button, you wouldn't be able to do anything else while the script is executing. What if you miss? The whole operation is carried out even though you won't hit anything. It's also extremely inflexible - you can't use it to stomp a whole bunch of marines and target a specific one. The script cannot abort, and it cannot respond to events happening in the game and decide what to do based on them.
The classic example is the rocket jump script. It sounds lovely - a perfect rocket jump every time. Provided you have a custom rocket jump script for every different height you want to reach. Provided you don't mind not being able to use rocket jumps to access more unconventional locations, at different altitudes to the usual spots. Almost completely useless.
There's also the fact that such scripts are clunky, and don't work very well in themselves. For a long time, when I played TFC, I had a script which switched to my knife and attacked while I held the key down, and then switched back to my previous weapon when I released it. Eventually, I abandoned it in favour of simply moving my knife key closer, because the script had a habit of getting stuck at the crucial moment. I found that this was far more effective. After all, even if it worked properly there was the time delay in switching weapon <i>every single time</i> I wanted to make an attack.
Actually, I thought it would be cool to set up a script so that, instead of switching to each alien weapon, the keys performed them. It makes sense - a real creature would be able to perform any attack without "switching" to it first, right? It turned out to be a disaster. Since you're trying to do something the game wasn't designed to do, it just doesn't work very well. Once again, it adds a time overhead to all of your attacks. The fact is, even if you can get such a script to work it doesn't do much more than force you to re-learn how to play, in a different style.
In short: these scripts offer no advantages. They're fool's gold: they look like they can do a lot, but are inflexible and cause more problems for their users than they solve. They certainly won't win you the game by themselves.
<b>3: Exploit scripts</b>
I'm going to classify bunnyhopping scripts in here, because I personally believe bunnyhopping to be an exploit. Anything which exploits a bug in the engine or game code belongs in this category. Some bugs possibly require a script to exploit because of the difficulty envolved in consistently pulling it off manually.
I'm not going to defend the use of scripts to cheat. I don't condone bug exploits. I would like to point out, however, that while scripts may make it easier to exploit a bug they are seldom the actual cause of the exploit itself. In this particular case, yes I don't see anything wrong with squashing the <span style='font-family:Courier'>_special</span> command because, well, I can't think of a single legitimate use for it. The fact is, the command itself doesn't create the exploits it is employed to take advantage of.
In closing, if you're a purist who doesn't believe in scripting: good for you. Whatever works. If you're a pro-scripter who has scripts to perform all kinds of complicated maneuvers: good for you. Whatever works. Whatever suits your play style. May I point out that, while I am pro-scripting, I don't use scripts for combat because they don't give me the flexibility I need.
Scripts aren't evil, they aren't unfair, they aren't a sign of lack of skill, and when all is said and done it's very seldom that they offer any actual advantage.
Flay also left bhopping in the game for aliens!
If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens? I suppose you can personally believe anything, but most people around here are just going to laugh at you for calling bunnyhopping an exploit.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if you miss . you will miss regardless of if your scripting or not.
thats a non issue. as lucid said. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But you can aim better when just holding down a button rather than furiously mashing it. If it was a non issue, then WHY IS THIS THREAD HERE. I don't understand how someone can claim scripts don't make any difference, when this whole thread is about people who want them removed because they DO. If you take the stance that they don't make a difference, then you shouldn't care if _special is removed correct? So why are you even posting?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Not exactly morals, but the lack of them eh? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It may be hard for someone as closed minded as you to squeeze this into your world view, but maybe, just maybe, two people can have morals that differ and neither one of them be wrong. Morals are personal held beliefs. There are some that are common to all, like not killing people, and then there are others that are subjective. Some people think drinking is wrong, others are fine with it. What matters is how you live by your beliefs, and not compromising for the wrong reasons.
So taking advantage of a bug in the engine that permitted you to run/jump/crouch silently at speeds greater than a blinking fade is not exploitatious?
A reminder to all... Bunnyhopping is not jumping up and down to avoid being bit/shot.
That's something to do with crack-weasles
If it was an exploit, then please tell me why they took bunnyhopping out for marines but left it in for aliens? I suppose you can personally believe anything, but most people around here are just going to laugh at you for calling bunnyhopping an exploit. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Feel free to disagree with me, but I don't really want to get into it. I've been through this argument too many times, and I don't have the energy for it again. But in this case, it's not inconcievable that my opinion disagrees with Flayra's, now, is it?
Oh, and for the record, I don't believe that bunnyhop automating scripts are wrong because they're scripting bunnyhopping, I believe they're wrong because they <i>are</i> bunnyhopping.
1. When the game was developed, I'm sure bunnyhop wasn't inserted into the engine on purpose. With that said, bunnyhopping is an exploit. We all know it is an exploit, but those of us he use it want to think it is not. Bunnyhopping is exploitation of the engine, therefore it is an exploit.
2. Some gaming communities have accepted bunnyhopping, such as TFC. All top clanners are at about the same speed, and all aspiring clans strive to be exceptional bhoppers. They do not frown upon it, they know it is an exploit, but it is part of their game.
The NS community seems to have very conflicting views on bunnyhopping, but I personally accept it as part of NS, and I will practice it every day.....
Example rapid fire pistol script, yes I am sure it is very powerful but if you miss, then what? You are a sitting duck (If you are using it as LMG back up). If not then if you missed you have no back up and failed to hurt the alien about to eat your face.
If you made HAM <insert top clan> play with default then I bet they'd still kill everything in sight. In fact for most if not all it wouldn't change a thing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if you miss . you will miss regardless of if your scripting or not.
thats a non issue. as lucid said. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well you obviously missed the point about control. A rapid fire pistol script would mean that you fire all your bullets in essentially your first shot. Using the usual method (mouse1 usually) this would not happen and you could take a number of aimed shots than just one.
See loss of control.
Impy, as for your post on the irony of me coming out against scripters.
1. When have I ever stated I script
2. Why make a snide remark without talking with me or asking me if I script.......
3. If you are being repeatedly slaughtered by Nadagast, Syckness, Me, or any other member of envy for that matter, it has nothing to do with scripts.
4. What is ironic about a non-scripter coming out against scripters? Especially such unkown scripts with such amazing power?
please respond I would love to hear what you have to say
1. Use of this command 'breaks' the operation of the pistol. Single shot operation is a defining feature of the pistol, and this command removes that entirely. This is different to a standard pistol script, i have never made complaints about the use of mousewheels or similar scripting for pistols, as i believe anyone who uses or complains about these is kidding themselves. They are frankly pathetic, offering poor control or firing rates no different to quickly clicking the mouse with no real advantage. They are generally clumsy and pointless. Scripting the pistol with this command is a whole different ball game. There is no reason at all that you would prefer regular operation to this form of script, it makes the single-shot operation completely redundant. As i found this operation to be an interesting feature of the pistol, i do not agree with its removal, which is what this command effectively does. Note that my issue here is not with people who use this having an advantage over those who don't, i'm arguing that the situation of nobody using this form of pistol script would be preferable to everybody using it.
2. It is <b>very</b> obscure. I never pay much heed to 'unfair advantage' arguements, as i consider all forms of useful sripting or console commands to be accessable to all, and a valid feature of the game. I will write scripts for anyone who asks about them, the language is very simple, and none of it can be considered 'forbidden knowledge'. However, the use of this command in this way has managed to remain quite secretive and obscure. Which reeks of forbidden knowledge / don't tell them about this omgz. I'm not particularly keen on hiding features, there's nothing i make use of that i won't explain to anyone who asks about it. You could argue that since this command is now alot better known, a full explanation of its use would make this complaint irrelevant. If this command did not have negative connotations for the game (See point #1) i'd be happy with that.
Summing up, unlike marine hopping, i'm not going to argue the removal of this one :)
They are so cute..
they do always the SAME movement lol