Ns 3.0e

Swiftspear · January 2004

<div class="IPBDescription">current issues?</div> a while ago someone posted on these forums asking what was the current status of NS 3.0. Although alot of the vets that answered seemed to feel that there wasn't much worth saying, but alot of the actual information about the latest build that they gave, was new news to many of the regulars of the forum even.

That being said, my question is, how does the current build look? Have any balance issues been found yet? any bugs? In general, how close to finished would those of you who have played 3.0 say it is?

I'm not asking for a release date or anything, Im just asking that some of the information that is common knowlage to the consties and vets be passed down, since anything you know has been declassified, and it often takes a long time to trickle down into the genral forums what all the changes in the change log actually mean to the game.

Thanx for your time. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

end3r_wigg3ns · January 2004

yea when i asked any thing i got lectured because they assumed i was hinting at the release date. i wanna know the status and that.

danwatt · January 2004

3.0e is getting closer to the final thing, but there is still a good amount of work to be done. Right now the NS mode is imbalanced, and there is something that is referred to as the "phantom alien win". Aliens, on a well balanced server, get all 3 hives (usually around 15-20 minutes), and are well organized, but somehow, after about 60 minutes, the marines win. This is mostly because the Onos has been severly nerfed so that it would be fair in CO (note : the devs are balancing it such that the lifeforms are the same in CO and NS, which some think is the wrong way of doing it).

CO, on the other hand, seems fairly balanced. On small (less than 4v4) games, it can be imbalanced, but NS has always been like that (and in CO, it really depends on which team has the best player). Hambone is fun (I like it), if you dont know what that is read elsewhere. Some thing it should be fixed a little, since its easy to spawn camp (aliens can be full tech, while marines spawn with 0 armor until they buy upgrades, and the reverse can happen).

Thats just my impressions of the current build. Its fun, but still needs some work, especially NS game mode.

Swiftspear · January 2004

so in other words, turret farming is actually worse than it ever was now? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

On an unrelated note, I support the deves in making lifeforms equal in Classic and Combat, I was banking on the fact that I would get a chance to practice my onos fade and lerking in combat, so when I had the money in classic I was less wary about waisting it on some higher lifeform I sucked with because of lack of practice. Combat will be a way to bridge the gap between learing players and experianced vets, and the more continuity between the two versions the less us nubs will have to worry about when we go back to classic

danwatt · January 2004

The problem with having ghe same lifeforms in classic and CO, is that you can get multiple upgrades for each chamber. So, you have an onos with Cara, Regen, AND redemption. Onos is 3 levels, then the 3 D chamber upgrades, and you still have 3 more to spend on what you like. This principle holds true for the other lifeforms, they will be stronger in CO, even with the HP/Armor stats the same. One thing you can do ( and I love doing) in CO is go lerk, get cler+adren+silence+cara+regen+umbra+sent+focus, and you have a dive boming lerk (silence and focus are the key here). Now, in CNS, you can get silence+focus, but you then cant get adren (really needed for the lerk), or SOF (helps for dive boming <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>), and other upgrades from the same chambers, and thats assuming you have sensory chambers (focus isnt that useful towards the endgame against LVL3 and/or HA).

As for CNS, I don't play it as often, but turret farming isnt as common. Maybe its because there are more skilled players playing, or maybe turrets have been nerved somewhat, I am not sure. Usually what happens with this "phantom alien win" is the marines need 2 res nodes, tech up, get HA w/ GL and HMG, then slowly push hives, getting a PG as close as they can and sieging. They dont even need sentries. One game I played with a very bad phantom win, I was onos, ran out with 2 lerk's umbraing me, and died in 2 seconds to HMG ONLY (no GL). I didnt even dent a single armor, and this wasnt a long hallway either.

The reason CNS seems to be out of balance right now is more playtesting has been done on CO, and there was a major bug called the "res bug" (fixed right before I signed up, so I don't know the specifics) and nobody played CNS for a while. Now that the res bug is fixed, more testing has to be done to see how the changes made to CO affect CNS.

Maian · January 2004

Status: in development.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Seriously, I think we're almost through with the bug hunt stage.

wilson502 · January 2004

heres the way i see it, a game can never really be perfectly balanced, unless, of course both teams r exactly the same thing. Thats is the only way it can be perfectly balanced. The closest thing u can do is have near balanced.

Trayder · January 2004

There was a problem i heard during last build where in combat rines almost always got jps and aliens almost always onosed cos it was the easiest way to win. Have they tweaked the balance so everyone doesn't always just follow the same path and there's diversity, or would u still say theres a certain line of upgrades that easily dominates the rest?

S2R2 · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wilson502 @ Jan 9 2004, 03:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> heres the way i see it, a game can never really be perfectly balanced, unless, of course both teams r exactly the same thing. Thats is the only way it can be perfectly balanced. The closest thing u can do is have near balanced.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not even if they are made of the same things. they must have limits on thet most power units. think chess. the most common peace (pawns)are the weakes, You have to keep the king safe and the strongest peace(queen) is not always needed. It depeands complelely who is playing. the rest is completely balancaed.

MrMojo · January 2004

Combat seems balanced enough.

NS itself doesn't seem balanced, as almost every game now ends with HA marines killing aliens.

Besides that, there are a few bugs they still want to fix, a big one being the weird crashes.

Roger_Dodger · January 2004

Any luck with the weird crashes yet coz that ones been around since the early builds hasnt it?

CommunistWithAGun · January 2004

Yes there are a few major problems with the new movement/prediction code, mysterious lag, and of course, a "hitbox bug" Where a skulk could run through a base with marines, and survive with next to near full health (This is with all marines aiming at them in combat) The worst part about it is there is documented PROOF of its existance and some people choose "there is no bug u r noob" approach to it...real professional eh, Anyway The order of testing goes Bug--->content---->balance---->release. We are at Bug/content because there are a few lingering bugs, and we have touched on some balance with HP adjustments etc.

BattleTech · January 2004

You also failed to miss out on the crash bug's that occur after round end's when you join another team. There's also another bug that causes classic NS game's to become extremely lagged where your pings will suddenly go 300, then 800 then 2000 and back down to 300 (people try to blaim it on the ammount of people on the server, its netcode). Also, that "hitbox" glitch is definently something proveable. Think of when you're running around a corner while a marine's shooting at you while you're Fade. You're 100% certain that you passed the corner though you're dead and flying 3 ft to the left while the marine passes through the doorway. Then from the marine's point of view, he was shooting at you and when you passed the corner and disappeared completely from your view, you died with blood showing. Also, another is when you're running around as Skulk with celerity and you get killed from behind or another angle, you'll jerk back instantly where you were a few inches before.

Now for combat, there's still "issues" with 3+ Onos ownage and Jetpacks flying around in the hive for five minute's with resupply without running out of fuel at all. Onos still get's owned fairly quick by HMG's, so they're still a bit to weak in Combat. The Onos in classic is just a joke, you can get owned almost effortlessly with 4+ LMG's or 3+ Shotgun's before you can take out anyone. Since the Onos hitbox is the size of a Minivan, you can't miss him at any distance, shotgun practically medium-ranges him.

75% of the game's won in classic are by marines
75% of the game's won in combat are by aliens

NScombat · January 2004

Imho even at this stage most 2.01 players who use Steam would be happy with the way beta 3.0 steam works. My first impression on 3.0 graphicaly was as if I had taken my eyes out and given then a clean. Graphics are cleaner and better defined.

Soberana · January 2004

People clean out the serves the instant I join. That is the current status of the defining situation of this era, time and period.

ubermensch · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wilson502 @ Jan 9 2004, 03:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> heres the way i see it, a game can never really be perfectly balanced, unless, of course both teams r exactly the same thing. Thats is the only way it can be perfectly balanced. The closest thing u can do is have near balanced.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Somebody elect this man for project supervisor. His analytical genius is far too vast to overlook.

Align · January 2004

Surely your ego isn't big enough to fill all available space in the servers, Soberana?

If the other veterans talk like that I can see why there is so much h8 for them.

raz0r · January 2004

wasnt soberana the one who kept on posting screentshots of the scoreboard after being told not to like 5 times just so he could show off his 'l337 skillz'

radforChrist · January 2004

Haven't been a CM long, and the reason I joined is because this is the ONLY game I play, I thought I should contribute. Although I've only been playing a few days, the largest problem I see is any lack of viable teamwork most of the time.

I'm not a part of the CM vs vet wars, nor do I wish to be, but marines are winning (HA/HMG and HA/GL almost every time) even when they're barely working together. It seems a commander rallies the troops, gives them commands, but after 5 minutes, it's degraded to rambos everywhere, at which time the comm jumps out or leaves from frustration. I don't play many pubs on 2.01, but I'd say the basic play of these servers doesn't even rival Lunixmonster or CoFR at times. While I think the gamers are doing a fantastic job of finding bugs, I also wonder how effective some of the matches are at finding gameplay balances. On some games I've seen an organized alien team quickly devastate a lacking marine team despite the marines having the favor. I can't comment on CO as I don't play it much if I can help it (just not my playing style). Honestly, since CM inception, I play more 2.01 than 3.x for quality of atmosphere.

I am not saying or implying I am uber and all others must be like me, I'm just stating I wish the games were a bit more civil and people worked together. I rarely hear teammates communicate via voicecomm (except a wonderful few, Grendel comes to mind), nor use text to inform teammates. AS far as the game itself, it's looking great, I think Flayra is really going in a great direction with this. The new maps look stellar, I especially like ayumi (can't decide exactly why, just a beautiful, well planned map).

wilson502 · January 2004

replying to s2r2 post, in chess both sides gets the same pieces, so, they are perfectly balanced. From what ive read, if the onos is nerfed for combat to make it weaker than it makes the reg NS unbalacned because the onos is too weak against the marines. Someone had the idea of having different values for each game and thats what they should do, u shouldnt use the same values for both games because NS:C and reg NS r 2 completely different gametypes and call for different situations.

BluePhish · January 2004

hope that they ll release it very soon ;_;

CommunistWithAGun · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BattleTech @ Jan 9 2004, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You also failed to miss out on the crash bug's that occur after round end's when you join another team. There's also another bug that causes classic NS game's to become extremely lagged where your pings will suddenly go 300, then 800 then 2000 and back down to 300 (people try to blaim it on the ammount of people on the server, its netcode). Also, that "hitbox" glitch is definently something proveable. Think of when you're running around a corner while a marine's shooting at you while you're Fade. You're 100% certain that you passed the corner though you're dead and flying 3 ft to the left while the marine passes through the doorway. Then from the marine's point of view, he was shooting at you and when you passed the corner and disappeared completely from your view, you died with blood showing. Also, another is when you're running around as Skulk with celerity and you get killed from behind or another angle, you'll jerk back instantly where you were a few inches before.

Now for combat, there's still "issues" with 3+ Onos ownage and Jetpacks flying around in the hive for five minute's with resupply without running out of fuel at all. Onos still get's owned fairly quick by HMG's, so they're still a bit to weak in Combat. The Onos in classic is just a joke, you can get owned almost effortlessly with 4+ LMG's or 3+ Shotgun's before you can take out anyone. Since the Onos hitbox is the size of a Minivan, you can't miss him at any distance, shotgun practically medium-ranges him.

75% of the game's won in classic are by marines
75% of the game's won in combat are by aliens  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
From my experience its the otherway around. In our scrimms, "Ok guys, marine round....try your best" "Ok cool alien round, we got this" Unless of course we totally suck or get beaten down I see ALOT of ties.

Abra · January 2004

Sooooo.... when can we expect NS 3.0 to be downloadable?

I mean everytime i have entered Natural-selection.org iv seen the same page "NS 3.0 Annonced" "Yeah... do we get it?"

But this is just my opinion... could they post some more news, some status reports on what they are doing, what they are working on, that would be great!

Zek · January 2004

<u>3.0 has no release date and will almost certainly not be released within the next couple of weeks.</u>

Right now there are a couple severe bugs but that's improving. Combat is somewhat balanced but not really fun IMHO because of the nature of the wins(JP rushes, marine spawn killing). Classic is an unbalanced mess because all balance changes so far have been for Combat. That's about as short a summary as I can give you without going into specifics.

wilson502 · January 2004

can they have separate unit values for combat and NS regular or is that not possible?

lochness · January 2004

why is there a CM vs VET war going on and what are the specifics concerning it. in my mind i see acusations like "all vets cheat or are just general elitest attitude".... "CMs are whiny nubs" . whats the deal?

Alcapwn · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Jan 9 2004, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Combat seems balanced enough.

NS itself doesn't seem balanced, as almost every game now ends with HA marines killing aliens.

Besides that, there are a few bugs they still want to fix, a big one being the weird crashes.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
HA rines one sounds like the days of 1.04 where if the rines got HA it was almost a guranteed win <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

BattleTech · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 9 2004, 01:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BattleTech @ Jan 9 2004, 09:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You also failed to miss out on the crash bug's that occur after round end's when you join another team. There's also another bug that causes classic NS game's to become extremely lagged where your pings will suddenly go 300, then 800 then 2000 and back down to 300 (people try to blaim it on the ammount of people on the server, its netcode). Also, that "hitbox" glitch is definently something proveable. Think of when you're running around a corner while a marine's shooting at you while you're Fade. You're 100% certain that you passed the corner though you're dead and flying 3 ft to the left while the marine passes through the doorway. Then from the marine's point of view, he was shooting at you and when you passed the corner and disappeared completely from your view, you died with blood showing. Also, another is when you're running around as Skulk with celerity and you get killed from behind or another angle, you'll jerk back instantly where you were a few inches before.

Now for combat, there's still "issues" with 3+ Onos ownage and Jetpacks flying around in the hive for five minute's with resupply without running out of fuel at all. Onos still get's owned fairly quick by HMG's, so they're still a bit to weak in Combat. The Onos in classic is just a joke, you can get owned almost effortlessly with 4+ LMG's or 3+ Shotgun's before you can take out anyone. Since the Onos hitbox is the size of a Minivan, you can't miss him at any distance, shotgun practically medium-ranges him.

75% of the game's won in classic are by marines
75% of the game's won in combat are by aliens </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
From my experience its the otherway around. In our scrimms, "Ok guys, marine round....try your best" "Ok cool alien round, we got this" Unless of course we totally suck or get beaten down I see ALOT of ties.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I'm talking pub wise with my percents.

end3r_wigg3ns · January 2004

hmmm well as long as they are fix'n er i am happy. if anyone needs me i will be playing solitaire or chasing ants

MrMojo · January 2004

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soberana @ Jan 9 2004, 09:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> People clean out the serves the instant I join. That is the current status of the defining situation of this era, time and period.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
It's because we hate you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

taboofires · January 2004

Er, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're an onos in NS:C, and you die, you come right back as an onos with all your upgrades, right? If you die as an onos in regular NS, you're 100+ res in the hole, so chances aren't good that you'll come right back. How is it even possible to make it work without making the classic one stronger?

Ns 3.0e

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