I honestly think for combat the lerk is great. But for one small thing takeoffs are crap unless you get practise. I think we'd have a few less nubs complaining of the flight if they could get off the ground easier.
<!--QuoteBegin-Uh-Oh+Feb 9 2004, 05:32 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ Feb 9 2004, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Love the new lerk Miss the old Spikes.
Aliens has it is, really need a ranged attack of some sort. Lerk spike was it... Bring back lerk spikes! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, I have this strange sense of deja-vu... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Lerk bad? Noooo... Lerk is a badass.. but still they are just flying skulks with spores, umbra and primal.. give the spikes back! Both spikes and bite as 1 category weapon! Aliens need more ranged weapons, lets the rines taste their own medicine a bit. Because AR is useless (MOST 3 hive abilities are CRAP and they should be the BEST...... oh well xenocide, web and primal are nice... but ar and charge... argh!), spikes back would be great.
either make spores usefull,or give the lerk spikes back again. "perch" and spikes would be good (as has beensugested before) So the lerk can fly into a wall and cling onto it if you hold crouch, then while you have crouch down the lerk fires spikes instead of biting.
I don't see the point of lerk early on, really. It's much more of a "skill" class than anything else. Umbra and primal are the main tools, making him use bite not very often. Spore is good as well, but bite has no point. It's a 30 res skulk that has no real positive benefit before two hives. The spikes could at least let him take out eleced objects, bases, or just annoy marines.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrMojo+Feb 9 2004, 07:46 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Feb 9 2004, 07:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I don't see the point of lerk early on, really. It's much more of a "skill" class than anything else. Umbra and primal are the main tools, making him use bite not very often. Spore is good as well, but bite has no point. It's a 30 res skulk that has no real positive benefit before two hives. The spikes could at least let him take out eleced objects, bases, or just annoy marines. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Your oppinion of this will soon change once you start to see scrims, early lerks are monsters
I'm just getting used to flying as lerk, so far i think its pretty good <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->. Umbra+Glide tactic on HAs seems to be working very well too, but those with SGs seem to counter this by jumping like rabbits and blasting me <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Btw, does umbra effect stack? . example: if i umbra my target two times and glide in to bite with primal, does it block more bullets per umbra cloud? To sum up my opinion, new lerk is awesome just takes awhile to practice it.
I didn't think that lerks were intended to take out buildings - you could be doing something far more productive elsewhere.
Is the focus bite rof reduced so that you put less damage than just regular bite over time? I sometimes seem to have less luck chomping marines with focus bite.
I agree with you man, but we are alone in our beliefs. The new lerk is here to stay, but i do wish they'd at least modify it a bit so the lerk has spikes, and can strafe dodge and fly backwards. At the very least, it needs it spikes back. I really don't like the new image of the lerk as being "The amazing flying skulk!". but oh well.
The lerk has gone from a support class hovering overhead to a swift attack class. I miss have a class that wasn't all about melee.
btw
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->either make spores usefull,or give the lerk spikes back again. "perch" and spikes would be good (as has beensugested before) So the lerk can fly into a wall and cling onto it if you hold crouch, then while you have crouch down the lerk fires spikes instead of biting. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
great Idea. I love this. Did you post it in the S&I forum yet?
I didn't like the 2.0 Lerk at all because people just used it simply as a "spam the marines" and "snipe" them class instead of a "support class" as it was originally designed to be. I'm still not "used" to the 3.0 Lerk flight because it feels like you have a block of cement on your feet. But, I've seen people pull off insane moves with the Lerk where they took corners almost effortlessly. They could fly from one side of the map to the other without touching the walls or having to land, without adrenaline. Anyway... the new Lerk bite is vicious, it destroys structures faster than a Skulk could dream of and it chews up marines just as fast as a Skulk could, but they take about 1 bite more to kill. Lerk is now a "close-air-support" class instead of the llama "sit in the vent with regen" and spam the marine spawn with spores and shoot resource nozzles with spikes to irritate the commander with "your base is under attack" for five minutes straight and only putting the nozzle in mid-yellow. So far, I like the new Lerk, but they still seem to drop a bit easy and still feel heavy.
IMO, lerk is now a lot better than it used to be. First, the new flight gives a great freedom. Second, lerks are now valid attack units but can still support with umbra, spores and primal. Lastly, celerity lerk can make "snap-bites" to the marine base. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Very good, even though I would wish that lerk bites wouldn't take so much adren and non-celerity lerk would be only a wee-bit faster...
Lerk flight definitely seems more geared towards flying in, biting, and flying away. Lerks could technically strafe, they just turns their head 90 degrees, they don't actually fly sideways like a humming bird. This allows for circling a target, ie. circle-strafing. This would, of course, make it easy for a lerk to just circle around the top of the room sporing a single target, without flapping much at all. This may be why they never put strafing in. Or, maybe, lerks can't turn their heads. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Shockwave+Feb 9 2004, 03:03 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Feb 9 2004, 03:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TheGuy+Feb 9 2004, 07:01 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheGuy @ Feb 9 2004, 07:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The only thing it's missing is gliding left and right. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought the reason for this is because everything else with wings like that can't glide left & right.
In fact, I can think of a few things that can fly left & right (Hummingbirds for example) but nothing that can glide left & right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem being, NS is an FPS <b>game</b> and not a reality simulation (*). The lerk is simply unable to dodge effectively (not being able quickly move left/right/up). Granted, it can do a small amount of dodging, but then, you can't dodge and attack at the same time, like every other FPS character can.
The lerk's benefits are that it's a novel way to control something in an FPS game and it's simple to control for people who don't know how to strafe. Also the lerk does p0wn in 3.0 betas. On the downside, it's a much simpler / less maneuverable control model than other FPS characters, so I refuse to devote time to mastering it.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(*) If making things "work like they do in the real world" was a desirable thing in NS, friendly fire would be mandatory at all times, marines couldn't instantly heal by touching a medpack, fades would get hurt when they fell, etc etc. So you can't argue that. The only thing you can argue is that it adds to the game somehow. And I personally think that removing strafing from the lerk detracts from lerk's enjoyment as something with a variety of strategic possibilities, instead it's just straight-line hit-and-run over and over.</span>
<!--QuoteBegin-Exitus+Feb 9 2004, 01:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Exitus @ Feb 9 2004, 01:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I loved the lerks spikes but i think that in longer run the "full-melee" alien race is better than 1.xx fades from hell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I stopped reading this thread right here... I WANT MY FADE FROM HELL OMG LIFE WAS SO MUCH BETTER Teleportation, death melee, death projectiles (especially with hive 3... Bwahahahaha...), but it was balanced between HA and JP, but Marine commanders never seemed to notice them before 2.0, and 1.04 JPers didn't know as much about JP as they do now. It was balanced! Give 'em back!
1.04 fade was balanced? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> [EDIT: Im all for bringing back the old blink. I don't care about stuck bugs.] I don't particularly like the new lerks, because some people are plain TOO good. I mean freaking godlike. Maybe they should swap the onos, fade & lerk costs around a bit. Note: yes, I suck with lerk, but I don't suck with shotgun. Lerks still own my heavy armor butt. There is something wrong with that.
<!--QuoteBegin-Align+Feb 9 2004, 12:24 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Align @ Feb 9 2004, 12:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1.04 fade was balanced? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hell yes, it was balanced. But 1.04 comms were **** and didn't buy weapons to get rid of them, they expected turrets to do everything. I was in a 3 hour 1.04 game, we pwned so many Fades it was disgusting. We even pwned some 1.04 Onos.
-Lerk should be able to cling to walls and ceiling (like a bat). This would really help guerilla tactics. Sneak a bit more, maybe evade that friggin' Grenade Launcher when clinging to the ceiling.
-Lerk should get 2 attacks; Bite and Spikes. Clinging+Spikes would be really good. It'd help out the new players get a hang of the lerk (ever saw a new player try to play lerk? They walk up to marines and bite them...Well, that's what they want to pull off. What happens, is we see a little chicken like animal, slowly wobbling to a marine, and gets creamed by a shotgun blast)
-Spore doesn't do much damage has it is.. it's more of an annoyance crowd control type attack. It doesn't actually do much. Maybe make it so that when marines are in the cloud, they shoot/walk a bit slower... Cause you know, you are pretty much gasing the marines... Or add a wee bit of damage. But I would really like to see more of a side effect added then more damage.
That's one of the two things I've wanted in NS for quite a while . <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1. Lerks cling to ceilings. Can't move around, but they can 'stick'.
2. Gorges can climb their webs. With hive 3, no more gorges begging for lifts, no more problems healing hives that are high in the air (like a combat map or two I know. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
Yeah, most people know to hold space for lerks by now. Most people also probably realize that the left and right keys do almost nothing while you're in the air, but I personally think that's what makes it sooo frustrating to me to use the lerk. You're limited to just one maneuver (dive-bomb and then run), which is kind of stupid.
As for gorges climbing webs to heal hives... that may not be necessary. <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/bt/login.php?return=%2Fbt%2Fbug_view_page.php%3Fbug_id%3D0000414&username=guest&password=guest' target='_blank'>Bug 414</a> is still there in 3.0 public beta 2. Gorges sometimes can't heal hives at all, sometimes even when you're standing INSIDE the hive. Gorge spray has a fair bit of distance to it (eg. you can kill rines from a distance), so you SHOULD be able to heal almost every hive, but this bug stops you. Once Flayra fixes the bug, then there might be one or two hives that map designers might need to lower a bit if falyra thinks every hive should be healable, but just fixing bug 414 alone would solve a lot of problems.
But yeah, gorge-web-climbing would be generally cool. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Uh-Oh+Feb 9 2004, 02:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Uh-Oh @ Feb 9 2004, 02:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But I would really like to see more of a [spore] side effect added then more damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed. I've thought that it would be good if marines in spores showed on hivesight (only while they stay in spores; not like parasite). Then the skill would still be slightly useful once HA shows up, and give a little bit of "support" sense back. Hear footsteps, spit around the corner, have a small heads-up. Or get a picture of a base before an attack, and so on.
I do miss spike, and think it (or something like it) is needed to balance out shotguns, but spore's a much more interesting attack. However, lerks becoming mini-turrets when clinging to a surface is certainly unorthodox, but it is interesting. One good thing about that is it'd make a sniping lerk a sitting duck, especially if it took a moment to uncling, and a pistol would beat spikes one-on-one. But in a group, with other players moving up to the marines, it could become useful, and would make lerks (especially early lerks) more different than skulks. I won't say that I'm sure it would work, though, as it is rather different, and adding it would require a bit of an overhaul.
As far as actual flight goes, feels more like a jet engine than flapping wings. But it is incredibly easier to use, and very bite-friendly, so I suppose gameplay comes before aesthetics.
What sucks is that whenever I get that evolution I die too early before I can learn it. So I just sort of gave up getting it and went back to the permagorge corner...
Anyway it seemed way to <i>hard to gain altitude.</i> Swooping down fast is <b>nice</b> and all, but are we supposed to swoop from like <b>an inch above the ground? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--></b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was just wondering if I'm the only one who hates 3.0 lerks.
I don't like the new movement. I don't like how they don't get spikes.
They should have an option that allows you to change movement to the old style or new one. Lerks should also have 2 level 1 attacks. Bite and Spikes.
What do you think? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pffff F. U. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The new movement is more realistic and no spikes is better there no fuc*ing lamers...
NEW LERK IS GREAT <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
The F word?
Hmm... Interesting concept...
Now.. what was I going to say...
Oh yes.
While the lerks in 3.0 can't dodge, they can move at extremely high speeds, and so most people can't get enough shots off on them before their heads are taken off. If you could dodge in the air as well, then many lerks would just be completely utterly unstopable.
You wouldn't be able to hit them, and you would die just way too fast. It would also complicate the 3.0 flying style, and so would be even harder for noobs to understand.
Now, this is with celerity, and in combat.
The problem is that in normal NS, you often don't have the option of getting celerity, or silence...
Silence is great because then they don't hear your flaps, and since the lerks of 3.0 bite so friggen fast, the marine has no time to react, and normally dies before he realizes what actually hit him.
Now, Maybe it's just me not understanding something about the 3.0 flight, but I find that a non celerity lerk needs a bit of a speed boost. ::shrugs::
<!--QuoteBegin-Cold-NiTe+Feb 9 2004, 05:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold-NiTe @ Feb 9 2004, 05:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyway it seemed way to <i>hard to gain altitude.</i> Swooping down fast is <b>nice</b> and all, but are we supposed to swoop from like <b>an inch above the ground? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--></b><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Lerks are ridiculously easy now as long as you completely ignore the way they used to work. Basically, a plain flap moves you upwards, and forwards and flapping propels you in the direction you're looking. Gliding works with mouselook now, so you can look up to climb (and decelerate), down to dive (and accelerate), and turn to... turn.
So to climb from off the ground, you can just press forwards, press and hold jump, and look in an upwards direction. To go faster (at any time), hold forwards and hit jump a few more times.
I hope I didn't mess that up.
And Psyke, you might not be able to strafe in a side-to-side manner, but you can quickly move in a vertical direction (while turning, if you want), which is nearly the same thing. I hate trying to shoot a flying lerk.
Though I do agree that the gap between celerity and non-celerity seems rather large.
Edit: <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo--> Finally! Shame it looks like a moldy sprinkler, though.
remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
edited February 2004
but wouldn't trying to go up and down like that cause a huge amount of (i think the word is) distortion when you're tying to fly?
Loose the sense of where you are and such?
I dunno, i'm going to need to test some stuff... I already know that flying in a flap-glide-fall-flap-glide-fall manner is super fun, and i think makes you bob a little in the air, but I'm not sure about how to go up and down like you say without loosing a ton of speed and never getting to your enemy... unless you mean passing them and flying up, spinning around, and swooping abck down (mad fun)...
and damn you, now i will never think of that icon the same again. <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
- RD
Miss the old Spikes.
Aliens has it is, really need a ranged attack of some sort. Lerk spike was it...
Bring back lerk spikes! <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I have this strange sense of deja-vu... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Aliens need more ranged weapons, lets the rines taste their own medicine a bit.
Because AR is useless (MOST 3 hive abilities are CRAP and they should be the BEST...... oh well xenocide, web and primal are nice... but ar and charge... argh!), spikes back would be great.
Your oppinion of this will soon change once you start to see scrims, early lerks are monsters
Btw, does umbra effect stack? . example: if i umbra my target two times and glide in to bite with primal, does it block more bullets per umbra cloud? To sum up my opinion, new lerk is awesome just takes awhile to practice it.
Is the focus bite rof reduced so that you put less damage than just regular bite over time? I sometimes seem to have less luck chomping marines with focus bite.
The lerk has gone from a support class hovering overhead to a swift attack class. I miss have a class that wasn't all about melee.
btw
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->either make spores usefull,or give the lerk spikes back again. "perch" and spikes would be good (as has beensugested before) So the lerk can fly into a wall and cling onto it if you hold crouch, then while you have crouch down the lerk fires spikes instead of biting.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
great Idea. I love this. Did you post it in the S&I forum yet?
Very good, even though I would wish that lerk bites wouldn't take so much adren and non-celerity lerk would be only a wee-bit faster...
I thought the reason for this is because everything else with wings like that can't glide left & right.
In fact, I can think of a few things that can fly left & right (Hummingbirds for example) but nothing that can glide left & right.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem being, NS is an FPS <b>game</b> and not a reality simulation (*). The lerk is simply unable to dodge effectively (not being able quickly move left/right/up). Granted, it can do a small amount of dodging, but then, you can't dodge and attack at the same time, like every other FPS character can.
The lerk's benefits are that it's a novel way to control something in an FPS game and it's simple to control for people who don't know how to strafe. Also the lerk does p0wn in 3.0 betas. On the downside, it's a much simpler / less maneuverable control model than other FPS characters, so I refuse to devote time to mastering it.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(*) If making things "work like they do in the real world" was a desirable thing in NS, friendly fire would be mandatory at all times, marines couldn't instantly heal by touching a medpack, fades would get hurt when they fell, etc etc. So you can't argue that. The only thing you can argue is that it adds to the game somehow. And I personally think that removing strafing from the lerk detracts from lerk's enjoyment as something with a variety of strategic possibilities, instead it's just straight-line hit-and-run over and over.</span>
I stopped reading this thread right here...
I WANT MY FADE FROM HELL OMG LIFE WAS SO MUCH BETTER
Teleportation, death melee, death projectiles (especially with hive 3... Bwahahahaha...), but it was balanced between HA and JP, but Marine commanders never seemed to notice them before 2.0, and 1.04 JPers didn't know as much about JP as they do now. It was balanced! Give 'em back!
I don't particularly like the new lerks, because some people are plain TOO good. I mean freaking godlike. Maybe they should swap the onos, fade & lerk costs around a bit.
Note: yes, I suck with lerk, but I don't suck with shotgun. Lerks still own my heavy armor butt. There is something wrong with that.
Hell yes, it was balanced. But 1.04 comms were **** and didn't buy weapons to get rid of them, they expected turrets to do everything. I was in a 3 hour 1.04 game, we pwned so many Fades it was disgusting. We even pwned some 1.04 Onos.
Best suggestions so far:
-Lerk should be able to cling to walls and ceiling (like a bat).
This would really help guerilla tactics. Sneak a bit more, maybe evade that friggin' Grenade Launcher when clinging to the ceiling.
-Lerk should get 2 attacks; Bite and Spikes.
Clinging+Spikes would be really good. It'd help out the new players get a hang of the lerk (ever saw a new player try to play lerk? They walk up to marines and bite them...Well, that's what they want to pull off. What happens, is we see a little chicken like animal, slowly wobbling to a marine, and gets creamed by a shotgun blast)
-Spore doesn't do much damage has it is.. it's more of an annoyance crowd control type attack. It doesn't actually do much. Maybe make it so that when marines are in the cloud, they shoot/walk a bit slower... Cause you know, you are pretty much gasing the marines... Or add a wee bit of damage. But I would really like to see more of a side effect added then more damage.
Anyways, nice discussion so far.
1. Lerks cling to ceilings. Can't move around, but they can 'stick'.
2. Gorges can climb their webs. With hive 3, no more gorges begging for lifts, no more problems healing hives that are high in the air (like a combat map or two I know. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
As for gorges climbing webs to heal hives... that may not be necessary. <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/bt/login.php?return=%2Fbt%2Fbug_view_page.php%3Fbug_id%3D0000414&username=guest&password=guest' target='_blank'>Bug 414</a> is still there in 3.0 public beta 2. Gorges sometimes can't heal hives at all, sometimes even when you're standing INSIDE the hive. Gorge spray has a fair bit of distance to it (eg. you can kill rines from a distance), so you SHOULD be able to heal almost every hive, but this bug stops you. Once Flayra fixes the bug, then there might be one or two hives that map designers might need to lower a bit if falyra thinks every hive should be healable, but just fixing bug 414 alone would solve a lot of problems.
But yeah, gorge-web-climbing would be generally cool. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Agreed. I've thought that it would be good if marines in spores showed on hivesight (only while they stay in spores; not like parasite). Then the skill would still be slightly useful once HA shows up, and give a little bit of "support" sense back. Hear footsteps, spit around the corner, have a small heads-up. Or get a picture of a base before an attack, and so on.
I do miss spike, and think it (or something like it) is needed to balance out shotguns, but spore's a much more interesting attack. However, lerks becoming mini-turrets when clinging to a surface is certainly unorthodox, but it is interesting. One good thing about that is it'd make a sniping lerk a sitting duck, especially if it took a moment to uncling, and a pistol would beat spikes one-on-one. But in a group, with other players moving up to the marines, it could become useful, and would make lerks (especially early lerks) more different than skulks. I won't say that I'm sure it would work, though, as it is rather different, and adding it would require a bit of an overhaul.
As far as actual flight goes, feels more like a jet engine than flapping wings. But it is incredibly easier to use, and very bite-friendly, so I suppose gameplay comes before aesthetics.
Anyway it seemed way to <i>hard to gain altitude.</i> Swooping down fast is <b>nice</b> and all, but are we supposed to swoop from like <b>an inch above the ground? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--></b>
I don't like the new movement.
I don't like how they don't get spikes.
They should have an option that allows you to change movement to the old style or new one. Lerks should also have 2 level 1 attacks. Bite and Spikes.
What do you think? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
pffff
F. U. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The new movement is more realistic and no spikes is better there no fuc*ing lamers...
NEW LERK IS GREAT <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Hmm... Interesting concept...
Now.. what was I going to say...
Oh yes.
While the lerks in 3.0 can't dodge, they can move at extremely high speeds, and so most people can't get enough shots off on them before their heads are taken off.
If you could dodge in the air as well, then many lerks would just be completely utterly unstopable.
You wouldn't be able to hit them, and you would die just way too fast.
It would also complicate the 3.0 flying style, and so would be even harder for noobs to understand.
Now, this is with celerity, and in combat.
The problem is that in normal NS, you often don't have the option of getting celerity, or silence...
Silence is great because then they don't hear your flaps, and since the lerks of 3.0 bite so friggen fast, the marine has no time to react, and normally dies before he realizes what actually hit him.
Now, Maybe it's just me not understanding something about the 3.0 flight, but I find that a non celerity lerk needs a bit of a speed boost. ::shrugs::
Otherwise, I love 3.0 lerks.
Lerks are ridiculously easy now as long as you completely ignore the way they used to work. Basically, a plain flap moves you upwards, and forwards and flapping propels you in the direction you're looking. Gliding works with mouselook now, so you can look up to climb (and decelerate), down to dive (and accelerate), and turn to... turn.
So to climb from off the ground, you can just press forwards, press and hold jump, and look in an upwards direction. To go faster (at any time), hold forwards and hit jump a few more times.
I hope I didn't mess that up.
And Psyke, you might not be able to strafe in a side-to-side manner, but you can quickly move in a vertical direction (while turning, if you want), which is nearly the same thing. I hate trying to shoot a flying lerk.
Though I do agree that the gap between celerity and non-celerity seems rather large.
Edit: <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo--> Finally! Shame it looks like a moldy sprinkler, though.
Loose the sense of where you are and such?
I dunno, i'm going to need to test some stuff... I already know that flying in a flap-glide-fall-flap-glide-fall manner is super fun, and i think makes you bob a little in the air, but I'm not sure about how to go up and down like you say without loosing a ton of speed and never getting to your enemy... unless you mean passing them and flying up, spinning around, and swooping abck down (mad fun)...
and damn you, now i will never think of that icon the same again. <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif' /><!--endemo-->