Its more than just a matter of the game being polished and bugs being removed. Gameplay was significantly changed after 1.04. Some of us prefer that gameplay to the new gameplay, thats all.
<!--quoteo(post=1604193:date=Feb 6 2007, 07:05 AM:name=MARINE_DUDE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MARINE_DUDE @ Feb 6 2007, 07:05 AM) [snapback]1604193[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I will keep <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /> playing this wonderfull game untill there is only 1 NS server left on this planet.
The problem for me is and has always been, i cant play without making sure im in the right frame of mind BEFORE i join. I just do a self attitude test.
For me the correct attitude means been able to deal with any negative, unfriendly or unhelpfull people. My Team can even loose several games in a row, just to have 1 Team win a day is enough for me.
I like breeding confidence in my team and enjoy encouraging them (esp on mic).
I have played so many games where players have bad attitudes, almost destroying the current round , only to be silenced with soothing words of encouragement or support, I see so many peoples behaviors change instantly, and start believing in each other, its just human nature.
I like distilling the notion that its Cool to be a <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" /> Team player, its contagous <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> Hero's come & go, the TEAM LIVES ON NS CLASSIC FOREVER !! I just wish i had more time in my life these days to play, as im 32, and real life tends to interfere with NS <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1. For all of you who played 1.04, you can all agree with me that 1.04 was a lot more FUN than 3.2. The current release is just so F****** boring. Game Starts. A node or two goes down. A attempt to take down a hive. Hive goes down, or stays up. Fades annoy and die. Marines pressure and die. Game ends with a recycle or plain alien loss due to lack of nodes and higher lifeforms with 1 hive. It is the same stupid BS over and over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol. 1.04 was better for atmosphere but worse for gameplay. If the current version of NS today was 1.04 nobody would be playing it. Nobody.
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The community is crap. There is no decent server to play on. Tactical Gamer is full of morons now because of the second server opening up, and NS armslab isn't too far behind in that department. Every other server has 5 million level combat servers with BS_1 which basically scares any decent competitive player away. Then theres the ###### like me that go into servers, and either rape everyone or die because our team blows. And you guys wonder why we cry for shotguns in pubs. Better off giving it to us, than some noob with a 1-24 score. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An American who thinks that only what he sees matters? Shock! The Euro scene is stable, you damned commie wannabe.
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. For all of you who are looking forward to the next NS, and the only reason why you play this build is because your waiting for the next one go to your system 32 folder and hit these buttons in order: (ctrl + a), delete, enter. News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As admins read my post they will already think I'm borderline for a "<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->[EDIT] Be nice<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->" kick, so I'm not gonna tell you to take up anal fisting. Oh, wait...
If the fact that there are over 200 servers on-line for a modification of a game that's over 8 years old is your definition of a "dead mod", then... well I don't know what to say.
<!--quoteo(post=1604520:date=Feb 7 2007, 02:29 PM:name=Khaze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Khaze @ Feb 7 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]1604520[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If the fact that there are over 200 servers on-line for a modification of a game that's over 8 years old is your definition of a "dead mod", then... well I don't know what to say. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of which over 150 are empty constantly .... servers != players
One of the biggest things I loved about 1.04 stemmed from being new. NS maps are the most complicated out there. To me, just running around, finding new vents, seeing new areas -- all the while blasting aliens or inwardly giggling as i hear a rine run up to my ambush spot -- that was a huge part of what made it so fun.
So how can you bring that back? Be open to new maps. There are TONS, and there's talk about an official map pack release (in the mapping forum). About 18 months ago I decided to help bring back part of that 1.04 feeling by starting NS_Nexus, hopefully a contender for the map pack. If you want that initial awe to be revived, ask server admins to load up the quality custom NS classic maps and give'em a whirl... without screaming 'omg this mapper should be shot' in the first second, because the walls aren't flat. There are hundreds and hundreds of maps out there; does anyone remember ns_trane08?! That was AWESOME, from back in the day at Mayberry's Custom Server. Lets bring back the fun of the *NEW* guys.
I'll freely admit to being one of NS's heaviest critics, but NS is definitely getting better and more balanced. Out of about 5 games the other night on a medium-high level skill server we had two games where Aliens worked relentlessly to win comeback rounds. I haven't had a teamplay experience that rewarding since playing Counter-Strike in a ClanBase top 25 clan a good few years ago.
NS used to be b0rked as hell, new changes like Hive transport have really brought the game closer to being balanced. There are still annoying moments, like realising nobody's got into the comm chair and knowing you'll have to wait 10 minutes to die before you can start a new 'proper' round, but I think if you have problems with NS now it's mostly to do with the servers you play on.
Atm there are only about 3 Euro servers I can get a decent game on, which sucks but if I can make it onto one of them then I'm guaranteed a good game. I think it's encouraging to know that nowadays in NS, the server you play on is much more likely to dictate how much fun you're gonna have than whether you play Marines or Aliens.
Every time I pub NS, I feel like crying. There are two servers in NA where you can get a half-decent game. Allow me to relate my NS most recent NS game.
I enter a server, with about 8 players on each side. It's only started about three minutes, and aliens have chosen sensory chambers as their first upgrade, so marines are getting slaughtered as aliens skillfully cloakwalk them. The commander has no upgrades, and dropping medpacks/ammo seems to also be against his religious beliefs. He does drop a welder though, telling his marines to weld up Station Access Alpha. Anyways, I try to push out, manage to kill a RT and a chamber or two and spawn camp the aliens a little before I run out of ammo and die. Meanwhile, the remainder of my team is busy building turrets in keyhole while aliens attempt to walk up to them. Apparently somebody on aliens put up a second hive, since all of a sudden half the skulks are leaping around. I can only assume the rest of them have no idea how to leap. The marines somehow walk into Maintenance without out encountering any resistance, since the aliens have for reasons unknown, left their hive undefended. The commander drops a TF and PG inside - the marines quickly scramble to build the TF. They die while building the TF, and the aliens proceed to chew down the unbuilt TF. I arrive on the scene, kill a few skulks, and get the PG up. The marines spend the next three minutes taking down the hive with their LMGs. I go to West Core Access with the intent to build a PG so we can finish the final hive, and to my surprise I am greeted by leaping skulks - apparently the aliens got Eclipse up. So I get to Primary Generator Monitor, solo about 5 skulks and get a PG up, while my team is busy building more turrets in Maintenance. At this point, one of the aliens who has seen me around and is convinced I aimbot ragequits, although not after asking me repeatedly where I downloaded my skill and trying to get me banned. Another follows. One marine builds the TF and sieges all by himself - the rest of the team is apparently covering him by standing right next to him, facing inward. I return to the base several times for ammo and health because the commander still refuses to supply his marines. Eclipse goes down, without much resistance. Marines then march into Core unopposed, and finish the game.
This entire time, I think the aliens had one lerk, who died and faded, then died again. Marines didn't have Armor 1 until the 6 minute mark, and they finished with W2A1. The pinnacle of marine teamwork consisted of having two people building the same TF, while the aliens walked in repeatedly and died under a spray of badly aimed bullets without touching a single res node the entire game. This was one of the better games I've had in recent memory - the worse was a server with about 15 people on each side, and me LMG soloing bad lerks who somehow managed to rack up a 15/0 score for about 10 minutes before the aliens just stormed the marines who never managed to push into the middle of the map.
If anybody plays on G4B2S server, not long ago (maybe week tops) there was a game playing where marines were holding one hive throughout the whole game. We knew, the longer they keep it, we would lose in the long run. So we done the only thing we could do, we rushed base, but unlike any other rush...we onos rushed the CC. (by this time marines are fully upgraded with weapons/upgrades and every single thing else) The CC went down within moments, but we have lost every onos that rushed the CC. (4-5 onos) so now what? holding two hives, with marines being fully upgraded, but now without no cc? marines with anger done the only thing they could at this moment, they simply rushed our hive without thinking twice. The hive went down faster then any gorg could heal. So now aliens are playing with one hive, but marines have no cc while being fully upgraded. After this, we have killed all the marines, but needed to regroup again. We got the hive up going again, but marines rushed again and took it down again! finally, mariines couldn't keep this up they stopped rushing. (they needed to regroup themselves since they couldn't bacon and aliens didn't have enough high life forms because we lost most of them in the rush!) The game already been playing for an hour or so, but even with cc down...it took aliens an extra 20mins to regroup and rush marines. And even then we won because they simply couldn't bacon!
I remember throughout the game every alien was saying, if this doesn't prove marines are overpowered, nothing will. hehe!
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats probably the only part that hit home with me. you are pretty heavy on the negativity but its not like you are lying.
<!--quoteo(post=1604542:date=Feb 7 2007, 04:28 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Feb 7 2007, 04:28 PM) [snapback]1604542[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Every time I pub NS, I feel like crying. There are two servers in NA where you can get a half-decent game. Allow me to relate my NS most recent NS game.
I enter a server, with about 8 players on each side. It's only started about three minutes, and aliens have chosen sensory chambers as their first upgrade, so marines are getting slaughtered as aliens skillfully cloakwalk them. The commander has no upgrades, and dropping medpacks/ammo seems to also be against his religious beliefs. He does drop a welder though, telling his marines to weld up Station Access Alpha. Anyways, I try to push out, manage to kill a RT and a chamber or two and spawn camp the aliens a little before I run out of ammo and die. Meanwhile, the remainder of my team is busy building turrets in keyhole while aliens attempt to walk up to them. Apparently somebody on aliens put up a second hive, since all of a sudden half the skulks are leaping around. I can only assume the rest of them have no idea how to leap. The marines somehow walk into Maintenance without out encountering any resistance, since the aliens have for reasons unknown, left their hive undefended. The commander drops a TF and PG inside - the marines quickly scramble to build the TF. They die while building the TF, and the aliens proceed to chew down the unbuilt TF. I arrive on the scene, kill a few skulks, and get the PG up. The marines spend the next three minutes taking down the hive with their LMGs. I go to West Core Access with the intent to build a PG so we can finish the final hive, and to my surprise I am greeted by leaping skulks - apparently the aliens got Eclipse up. So I get to Primary Generator Monitor, solo about 5 skulks and get a PG up, while my team is busy building more turrets in Maintenance. At this point, one of the aliens who has seen me around and is convinced I aimbot ragequits, although not after asking me repeatedly where I downloaded my skill and trying to get me banned. Another follows. One marine builds the TF and sieges all by himself - the rest of the team is apparently covering him by standing right next to him, facing inward. I return to the base several times for ammo and health because the commander still refuses to supply his marines. Eclipse goes down, without much resistance. Marines then march into Core unopposed, and finish the game.
This entire time, I think the aliens had one lerk, who died and faded, then died again. Marines didn't have Armor 1 until the 6 minute mark, and they finished with W2A1. The pinnacle of marine teamwork consisted of having two people building the same TF, while the aliens walked in repeatedly and died under a spray of badly aimed bullets without touching a single res node the entire game. This was one of the better games I've had in recent memory - the worse was a server with about 15 people on each side, and me LMG soloing bad lerks who somehow managed to rack up a 15/0 score for about 10 minutes before the aliens just stormed the marines who never managed to push into the middle of the map. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you going to tell me that NS has somehow gotten worse in this regard since 1.04?
<!--quoteo(post=1604566:date=Feb 7 2007, 02:51 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zek @ Feb 7 2007, 02:51 PM) [snapback]1604566[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Are you going to tell me that NS has somehow gotten worse in this regard since 1.04? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm saying that the skill level of the average player has gone down. It wasn't this bad even only a year ago. I don't know if it's because all the experienced players have left, or because all the newbies aren't willing to learn.
I came back after three years of off time. I still enjoy the game and the key to enjoying anything is not playing 3 hours a day. Then you say "Oh Wow!" This game sucks! Too many noobs! Well you were a newb at one point get off your horse.
As for those of you who wondered why I stoped playing for three years, it was not due to lack of interest, it was due to me having higher priorities.
<!--quoteo(post=1604570:date=Feb 7 2007, 06:12 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Feb 7 2007, 06:12 PM) [snapback]1604570[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm saying that the skill level of the average player has gone down. It wasn't this bad even only a year ago. I don't know if it's because all the experienced players have left, or because all the newbies aren't willing to learn. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled players don't play on random pubs, unless they're looking for an ego boost. That much hasn't changed. I think the ratio of "good" servers to random pubs has been pretty consistent. We're just seeing a smaller number of servers/players, which I'd say is for two reasons: the fact that this game is over 4 years old, and the fact that the playerbase is split between 3.1 and 3.2 beta. It's unfortunate, but to turn that fact of life into a tirade of pessimism like the OP doesn't accomplish anything. I think very few people will actually agree that 1.04 was a better build than 3.x in any real way - we all have different opinions about how the game should have progressed, but overall the patches have always been for the better in the long run.
<!--quoteo(post=1604589:date=Feb 7 2007, 07:28 PM:name=milosis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(milosis @ Feb 7 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]1604589[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> yes we do <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Not in enough number to have any real impact on the teamplay or skill level of the server.
<!--quoteo(post=1604570:date=Feb 7 2007, 06:12 PM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Feb 7 2007, 06:12 PM) [snapback]1604570[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I'm saying that the skill level of the average player has gone down. It wasn't this bad even only a year ago. I don't know if it's because all the experienced players have left, or because all the newbies aren't willing to learn. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a combination effect, it is very rare that in anything that there is a single point of causality. An important question is, where did all the talented players go? Or why are these "newbies" (which are probably long term players that exert maladapative tendencies) unwilling/incapable of learning how to play better?
I will agree that the quality of games have decreased to the point where NS isn't worth my time anymore. A year ago the games were detoriating but now playing in servers where players STILL try to lockdown two hives is definately a head scratcher to me.
It seems that the playerbase is evolving back to 1.04, because during that time not a lot of players knew what to do, and it seems that the latest version is mimicing that effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1604595:date=Feb 7 2007, 07:48 PM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Feb 7 2007, 07:48 PM) [snapback]1604595[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Its a combination effect, it is very rare that in anything that there is a single point of causality. An important question is, where did all the talented players go? Or why are these "newbies" (which are probably long term players that exert maladapative tendencies) unwilling/incapable of learning how to play better?
I will agree that the quality of games have decreased to the point where NS isn't worth my time anymore. A year ago the games were detoriating but now playing in servers where players STILL try to lockdown two hives is definately a head scratcher to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's still a rather effective strategy against pub aliens of average skill. I think it's absurd that you expect pub players to be studying and memorizing scrim tactics to use in pub games. The reality is that most of them just don't care that much, in any game. If they did, they'd join a clan.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems that the playerbase is evolving back to 1.04, because during that time not a lot of players knew what to do, and it seems that the latest version is mimicing that effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Surely this couldn't be because the latest version is relatively new, right?
<!--quoteo(post=1604556:date=Feb 7 2007, 04:11 PM:name=kiddo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(kiddo @ Feb 7 2007, 04:11 PM) [snapback]1604556[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> not long ago (maybe week tops) there was a game playing where marines were holding one hive throughout the whole game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's every single game played on that server. Marines never attack a building hive or even RTs for that matter and still win the majority. Until the game is actually balanced to punish defensive marines - no matter the server's size, it will continue.
<!--quoteo(post=1604597:date=Feb 7 2007, 07:54 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zek @ Feb 7 2007, 07:54 PM) [snapback]1604597[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's still a rather effective strategy against pub aliens of average skill. I think it's absurd that you expect pub players to be studying and memorizing scrim tactics to use in pub games. The reality is that most of them just don't care that much, in any game. If they did, they'd join a clan. Surely this couldn't be because the latest version is relatively new, right? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But the baseline gameplay is still the same in the versions since 2.01, I do not see why there should be such a significant learning curve for something that should be at this time so natural.
I expect pub players, especially those that claim to be so skilled, to figure out more effective paths of playing the game, I didn't say that they should memorize scrim tactics, I'm saying that the general "so skilled" community should have moved beyond the two hive lockdown.
If they aren't willing to use the tactics neccesary to achieve victory than they have no right to ###### about balance because they don't care that much right?
WyzcrakPot Pie AficionadoJoin Date: 2002-12-04Member: 10447Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Our server recently expanded from one server to two, and it's common that both servers are full at the same time during any given evening. One could argue that it's because we're on the short list of servers worth playing on in North America right now, and that one or both of the servers will sit idle when (or, if you insist, "if") NS comes out of its current "slump," but that's not the point.
I mention that to say this: we've had a ton of new faces on our NS server(s) lately. Players new both only to our community and entirely to our game, and it's been a pleasure to welcome them all and ask the newbies what questions we can answer about the game.
It's refreshing to see so many new faces and watch them learn the game. One of NS' greatest accomplishment is providing such a wealth of opportunity for the player who thirsts to learn as he plays.
Meh. I respect that some people are tired of this game. It's the way of humans. And I respect that a minority of those players take satisfaction from sharing that fatigue in forums. It's the way of the Internet. Granted, I just had a kid and have a fraction of the playtime I used to, but I'm still enjoying the game, and its players, very much.
I won't dispute that there are good reasons for me to stop playing this game (the first post's drama kept me from spending more time on it than was necessary to skim it), but I can't overlook that they remain outnumbered by the reasons I should not.
<!--quoteo(post=1604626:date=Feb 7 2007, 09:08 PM:name=Wyzcrak)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wyzcrak @ Feb 7 2007, 09:08 PM) [snapback]1604626[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Our server recently expanded from one server to two, and it's common that both servers are full at the same time during any given evening. One could argue that it's because we're on the short list of servers worth playing on in North America right now, and that one or both of the servers will sit idle when (or, if you insist, "if") NS comes out of its current "slump," but that's not the point.
I mention that to say this: we've had a ton of new faces on our NS server(s) lately. Players new both only to our community and entirely to our game, and it's been a pleasure to welcome them all and ask the newbies what questions we can answer about the game.
It's refreshing to see so many new faces and watch them learn the game. One of NS' greatest accomplishment is providing such a wealth of opportunity for the player who thirsts to learn as he plays.
Meh. I respect that some people are tired of this game. It's the way of humans. And I respect that a minority of those players take satisfaction from sharing that fatigue in forums. It's the way of the Internet. Granted, I just had a kid and have a fraction of the playtime I used to, but I'm still enjoying the game, and its players, very much.
I won't dispute that there are good reasons for me to stop playing this game (the first post's drama kept me from spending more time on it than was necessary to skim it), but I can't overlook that they remain outnumbered by the reasons I should not. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
One server's testimonial does not speak for the entire NS community as a whole, how many communities shutdown as your expanded? Armslab is no more, so there is atleast one community that is down. As far as fresh new faces, again its just your one server. Your testimonial does not compare with the constant drop in player statistics since 2.01.
As far as players expressing fatigue, I see no problem with it as long as the criticism is constructive. I'm glad to see the NS dev team develop some skin as this thread would have been locked immediately a year ago.
I still feel that there are a lack of oppurtunities for former players that may not fit in with a lot of the server communities, as well as being unhappy with the current gameplay changes. Natural attrition happens in everygame, but it appeared NS sped up its downward spiral when the forums went down.
Unfortunately, your experiences do not seem to generalize with the rest of the NS community, as your stats go up, the stats of the entire community goes down.
<!--quoteo(post=1604590:date=Feb 7 2007, 04:30 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Zek @ Feb 7 2007, 04:30 PM) [snapback]1604590[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Not in enough number to have any real impact on the teamplay or skill level of the server. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Skilled players do pub. As much as competitive players prefer scrimming/pugging to pubbing, sometimes they don't have the luxury of finding another 11 players who are also online at the same time to get a game going. A good player coming in and carrying the entire team happens all the time.
I don't think expecting players who have been playing for months, years even, to know some basics of gameplay such as "Let the HMG cover and the LMG build, not the other way around", or "Don't armory hump while the phase gate is getting chewed down" is too much. Yet, most people continually to have a very slim grasp of gameplay in NS - I think this is most reflected in the commanding styles of most players. I honestly cannot remember any commanders on a pub who did anything other than attempt to lock down hives and slowly tech for fully upgraded heavies. When I comm and I tell my marines I don't want a phase gate in whatever hive they are currently in, they get offended, start complaining about the "noob comm", and try to eject me. Whenever a game is lost, I am told that it is because I didn't turret everything in sight up and electrify all the nodes. I find it amazing that so many people think winning a game without turret farming is inconceivable.
<!--quoteo(post=1604639:date=Feb 8 2007, 02:51 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Feb 8 2007, 02:51 AM) [snapback]1604639[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> One server's testimonial does not speak for the entire NS community as a whole, how many communities shutdown as your expanded? <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Mr| Community died about, i dont even know 4-5 months ago? somethin like that. Thats when i decided to get donator on g4b2s just cuz it was always full, any time of day.
In the past month or so, Mr| server changed to 3.2, and bam, its full everynight, and our old regulars playerbase has been consistently trickling back into NS from the other games they'd gone into (DOTA in particular). Plus, there've been fresh faces every night mixed in with the regs.
So maybe his one server's testimonial doesn't speak for the entire community, but you can double everything he said about TG for Mr.
All I see from the posts of clanners or should I say people who are in clans, is they blame the lack of skill from newbies as a cause of the downfall of NS.
Is it their fault they just want to play a game to have fun, rather than take a course to play it? Nobody wants to take this "HOW TO LEARN NS" training BS that we try to encourage. They simply want to jump into the game, which is what I did.
So they are in the game, along with half the server as decent players. Then you have a few skilled players that completely dominate the game with their 42-5 fade or marine scores. Every time they would gorge, marines would gank them. There might be a time where the onos egged at the hive and got knifed. Or they might be gassing marines at ayumi, only to have a marine come from behind in the vents and kill them.
Not only do you have to know all these rules and sub rules for the game, but also how the map plays as well as common tactics. I think what is being asked is in fact unreasonable.
So it's not a mystery why people swarm over to CO servers. They are easy to learn, easy to recover from and they have a much better chance against the other team than the "few players dominate" all play of NS.
What I would like is something Warcraft 3 and Halo 2 use - skill matching. When you are matched with people at your skill level, games tend to be longer, balanced and end closely. I believe these are the best games. But can this idea be done?
Or we can accept fate that no matter what happens, we will have to throw all the apples, oranges and potatoes in the same box. With that said, the only thing that can be done is to change the game itself to accomodate for all of these different players.
So instead of having one player dominate the game, focus more on a team effort to get it going. That way, even a team of average players can have a chance against an opposition with one extremely good aimer/fader. Or rather make the game easier, to keep the potentials of extremely skilled players low enough to prevent extremely lopsided games.
I don't believe RFK is the problem, because if we were to have a balanced NS game, both teams would receive relatively similar amounts. It is a problem however, when you have a few clanners join one team and stack it so the game is over before it even starts.
When people start getting off the mentality of blaming new players for "not being good enough" and actually look at ways the game can accomodate them, can we make progress. We've tried that way and all that's happened is the user base keeps dying. I only see 2 or so decent servers to play a game of NS on. It's gotten so bad that one of my friends thought NS was a "mode" of combat.
One point I do agree with is that development of NS has grown far too slow. I completely understand that there are financial/personal problems, but the truth is, having to wait for 2 to 3 months for bug fixes and up to 9 to 12 months for a major release is simply a recipe for disaster. A community can only do so much to keep interest going. Often times, It really seems like nothing is going on. I check the website and forums every other day. We hardly ever see an update post. And unless your a constellation member, you have no clue. In terms of being kept in the loop, casual players are totally blind until that 2 to 3 months rolls around - and then, there's no guarantee they're willing to come back.
I just hope the dev team will try harder to keep interest up in the community. When was the last time we had any big news of NS2? Use the main website to your advantage and post updates on development there... It breaks my heart to visit the main site and see that the news topic is not really important news at all ... c'mon, a tournament update after 2 weeks of nothing?? There GOTS to be something new!
Rant over. All in all, I think the game is still worth playing but it just seems like we are being told not to have high hopes.
<!--quoteo(post=1604503:date=Feb 7 2007, 01:16 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Feb 7 2007, 01:16 PM) [snapback]1604503[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Euro scene is stable, you damned commie wannabe. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with Sherpa on how stable the Euro scene is. Both ENSL and YO have been stable. infact, we've seen a ton of new players filling our server recently - on the order of about 4000 in only 2 months. A hell of a lot.
I think the only thing that could kill NS, is NS2. Which is a good thing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. There a
There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. I don't think this is a valid assumption at all. Yes, there are a certain amount of those types of player, but there are a lot of new players who need to be nurtured. In one breath people complain that NS is in trouble because there are no new players, some of you then go on to complain about how NS is dying because there are too many new players. You can't have it both ways. The communities who have continued to be welcoming to new players and who have a commitment to a friendly environment are the ones who are still healthy.
I'm not saying that we haven't made mistakes, or that the forum downtime hasn't hurt our player numbers, but there is room for growth and there are plenty of signs of health and I think if some of you overly pessimistic players put the effort in you would reap the benefits you claim you desire.
Or to summarise, you see noobs, I see future competent public players and if you're lucky, perhaps a few who go onto play in clans.
And please, lets not get focused on which style of play is better. We've had this 'different strokes for different folks' debate too many times for it to add anything to the discussion.
new players arent the problem, the problem are the old players who suffer from the aforementioned mental dilemma. they drag everyone down to their own level if the process is not halted
Comments
I will keep <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/pudgy.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::gorge::" border="0" alt="pudgy.gif" /> playing this wonderfull game untill there is only 1 NS server left on this planet.
The problem for me is and has always been, i cant play without making sure im in the right frame of mind BEFORE i join. I just do a self attitude test.
For me the correct attitude means been able to deal with any negative, unfriendly or unhelpfull people. My Team can even loose several games in a row, just to have 1 Team win a day is enough for me.
I like breeding confidence in my team and enjoy encouraging them (esp on mic).
I have played so many games where players have bad attitudes, almost destroying the current round , only to be silenced with soothing words of encouragement or support, I see so many peoples behaviors change instantly, and start believing in each other, its just human nature.
I like distilling the notion that its Cool to be a <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tsa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::tsa::" border="0" alt="tsa.gif" /> Team player, its contagous <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Hero's come & go, the TEAM LIVES ON
NS CLASSIC FOREVER !!
I just wish i had more time in my life these days to play, as im 32, and real life tends to interfere with NS
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lol marine dude, me too forever and ever
1. For all of you who played 1.04, you can all agree with me that 1.04 was a lot more FUN than 3.2. The current release is just so F****** boring. Game Starts. A node or two goes down. A attempt to take down a hive. Hive goes down, or stays up. Fades annoy and die. Marines pressure and die. Game ends with a recycle or plain alien loss due to lack of nodes and higher lifeforms with 1 hive. It is the same stupid BS over and over again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol. 1.04 was better for atmosphere but worse for gameplay. If the current version of NS today was 1.04 nobody would be playing it. Nobody.
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The community is crap. There is no decent server to play on. Tactical Gamer is full of morons now because of the second server opening up, and NS armslab isn't too far behind in that department. Every other server has 5 million level combat servers with BS_1 which basically scares any decent competitive player away.
Then theres the ###### like me that go into servers, and either rape everyone or die because our team blows. And you guys wonder why we cry for shotguns in pubs. Better off giving it to us, than some noob with a 1-24 score. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
An American who thinks that only what he sees matters? Shock! The Euro scene is stable, you damned commie wannabe.
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 06:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. For all of you who are looking forward to the next NS, and the only reason why you play this build is because your waiting for the next one go to your system 32 folder and hit these buttons in order: (ctrl + a), delete, enter. News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As admins read my post they will already think I'm borderline for a "<!--coloro:yellow--><span style="color:yellow"><!--/coloro-->[EDIT] Be nice<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->" kick, so I'm not gonna tell you to take up anal fisting. Oh, wait...
If the fact that there are over 200 servers on-line for a modification of a game that's over 8 years old is your definition of a "dead mod", then... well I don't know what to say.
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Of which over 150 are empty constantly .... servers != players
So how can you bring that back? Be open to new maps. There are TONS, and there's talk about an official map pack release (in the mapping forum). About 18 months ago I decided to help bring back part of that 1.04 feeling by starting NS_Nexus, hopefully a contender for the map pack. If you want that initial awe to be revived, ask server admins to load up the quality custom NS classic maps and give'em a whirl... without screaming 'omg this mapper should be shot' in the first second, because the walls aren't flat. There are hundreds and hundreds of maps out there; does anyone remember ns_trane08?! That was AWESOME, from back in the day at Mayberry's Custom Server. Lets bring back the fun of the *NEW* guys.
And, amen. 3.2 rocks my socks.
NS used to be b0rked as hell, new changes like Hive transport have really brought the game closer to being balanced. There are still annoying moments, like realising nobody's got into the comm chair and knowing you'll have to wait 10 minutes to die before you can start a new 'proper' round, but I think if you have problems with NS now it's mostly to do with the servers you play on.
Atm there are only about 3 Euro servers I can get a decent game on, which sucks but if I can make it onto one of them then I'm guaranteed a good game. I think it's encouraging to know that nowadays in NS, the server you play on is much more likely to dictate how much fun you're gonna have than whether you play Marines or Aliens.
I enter a server, with about 8 players on each side. It's only started about three minutes, and aliens have chosen sensory chambers as their first upgrade, so marines are getting slaughtered as aliens skillfully cloakwalk them. The commander has no upgrades, and dropping medpacks/ammo seems to also be against his religious beliefs. He does drop a welder though, telling his marines to weld up Station Access Alpha. Anyways, I try to push out, manage to kill a RT and a chamber or two and spawn camp the aliens a little before I run out of ammo and die. Meanwhile, the remainder of my team is busy building turrets in keyhole while aliens attempt to walk up to them. Apparently somebody on aliens put up a second hive, since all of a sudden half the skulks are leaping around. I can only assume the rest of them have no idea how to leap. The marines somehow walk into Maintenance without out encountering any resistance, since the aliens have for reasons unknown, left their hive undefended. The commander drops a TF and PG inside - the marines quickly scramble to build the TF. They die while building the TF, and the aliens proceed to chew down the unbuilt TF. I arrive on the scene, kill a few skulks, and get the PG up. The marines spend the next three minutes taking down the hive with their LMGs. I go to West Core Access with the intent to build a PG so we can finish the final hive, and to my surprise I am greeted by leaping skulks - apparently the aliens got Eclipse up. So I get to Primary Generator Monitor, solo about 5 skulks and get a PG up, while my team is busy building more turrets in Maintenance. At this point, one of the aliens who has seen me around and is convinced I aimbot ragequits, although not after asking me repeatedly where I downloaded my skill and trying to get me banned. Another follows. One marine builds the TF and sieges all by himself - the rest of the team is apparently covering him by standing right next to him, facing inward. I return to the base several times for ammo and health because the commander still refuses to supply his marines. Eclipse goes down, without much resistance. Marines then march into Core unopposed, and finish the game.
This entire time, I think the aliens had one lerk, who died and faded, then died again. Marines didn't have Armor 1 until the 6 minute mark, and they finished with W2A1. The pinnacle of marine teamwork consisted of having two people building the same TF, while the aliens walked in repeatedly and died under a spray of badly aimed bullets without touching a single res node the entire game. This was one of the better games I've had in recent memory - the worse was a server with about 15 people on each side, and me LMG soloing bad lerks who somehow managed to rack up a 15/0 score for about 10 minutes before the aliens just stormed the marines who never managed to push into the middle of the map.
I remember throughout the game every alien was saying, if this doesn't prove marines are overpowered, nothing will. hehe!
News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out
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thats probably the only part that hit home with me. you are pretty heavy on the negativity but its not like you are lying.
Every time I pub NS, I feel like crying. There are two servers in NA where you can get a half-decent game. Allow me to relate my NS most recent NS game.
I enter a server, with about 8 players on each side. It's only started about three minutes, and aliens have chosen sensory chambers as their first upgrade, so marines are getting slaughtered as aliens skillfully cloakwalk them. The commander has no upgrades, and dropping medpacks/ammo seems to also be against his religious beliefs. He does drop a welder though, telling his marines to weld up Station Access Alpha. Anyways, I try to push out, manage to kill a RT and a chamber or two and spawn camp the aliens a little before I run out of ammo and die. Meanwhile, the remainder of my team is busy building turrets in keyhole while aliens attempt to walk up to them. Apparently somebody on aliens put up a second hive, since all of a sudden half the skulks are leaping around. I can only assume the rest of them have no idea how to leap. The marines somehow walk into Maintenance without out encountering any resistance, since the aliens have for reasons unknown, left their hive undefended. The commander drops a TF and PG inside - the marines quickly scramble to build the TF. They die while building the TF, and the aliens proceed to chew down the unbuilt TF. I arrive on the scene, kill a few skulks, and get the PG up. The marines spend the next three minutes taking down the hive with their LMGs. I go to West Core Access with the intent to build a PG so we can finish the final hive, and to my surprise I am greeted by leaping skulks - apparently the aliens got Eclipse up. So I get to Primary Generator Monitor, solo about 5 skulks and get a PG up, while my team is busy building more turrets in Maintenance. At this point, one of the aliens who has seen me around and is convinced I aimbot ragequits, although not after asking me repeatedly where I downloaded my skill and trying to get me banned. Another follows. One marine builds the TF and sieges all by himself - the rest of the team is apparently covering him by standing right next to him, facing inward. I return to the base several times for ammo and health because the commander still refuses to supply his marines. Eclipse goes down, without much resistance. Marines then march into Core unopposed, and finish the game.
This entire time, I think the aliens had one lerk, who died and faded, then died again. Marines didn't have Armor 1 until the 6 minute mark, and they finished with W2A1. The pinnacle of marine teamwork consisted of having two people building the same TF, while the aliens walked in repeatedly and died under a spray of badly aimed bullets without touching a single res node the entire game. This was one of the better games I've had in recent memory - the worse was a server with about 15 people on each side, and me LMG soloing bad lerks who somehow managed to rack up a 15/0 score for about 10 minutes before the aliens just stormed the marines who never managed to push into the middle of the map.
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Are you going to tell me that NS has somehow gotten worse in this regard since 1.04?
Are you going to tell me that NS has somehow gotten worse in this regard since 1.04?
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I'm saying that the skill level of the average player has gone down. It wasn't this bad even only a year ago. I don't know if it's because all the experienced players have left, or because all the newbies aren't willing to learn.
As for those of you who wondered why I stoped playing for three years, it was not due to lack of interest, it was due to me having higher priorities.
Take a chill pill and enjoy the game.
I'm saying that the skill level of the average player has gone down. It wasn't this bad even only a year ago. I don't know if it's because all the experienced players have left, or because all the newbies aren't willing to learn.
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Skilled players don't play on random pubs, unless they're looking for an ego boost. That much hasn't changed. I think the ratio of "good" servers to random pubs has been pretty consistent. We're just seeing a smaller number of servers/players, which I'd say is for two reasons: the fact that this game is over 4 years old, and the fact that the playerbase is split between 3.1 and 3.2 beta. It's unfortunate, but to turn that fact of life into a tirade of pessimism like the OP doesn't accomplish anything. I think very few people will actually agree that 1.04 was a better build than 3.x in any real way - we all have different opinions about how the game should have progressed, but overall the patches have always been for the better in the long run.
yes we do
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Not in enough number to have any real impact on the teamplay or skill level of the server.
I'm saying that the skill level of the average player has gone down. It wasn't this bad even only a year ago. I don't know if it's because all the experienced players have left, or because all the newbies aren't willing to learn.
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Its a combination effect, it is very rare that in anything that there is a single point of causality. An important question is, where did all the talented players go? Or why are these "newbies" (which are probably long term players that exert maladapative tendencies) unwilling/incapable of learning how to play better?
I will agree that the quality of games have decreased to the point where NS isn't worth my time anymore. A year ago the games were detoriating but now playing in servers where players STILL try to lockdown two hives is definately a head scratcher to me.
It seems that the playerbase is evolving back to 1.04, because during that time not a lot of players knew what to do, and it seems that the latest version is mimicing that effect.
Its a combination effect, it is very rare that in anything that there is a single point of causality. An important question is, where did all the talented players go? Or why are these "newbies" (which are probably long term players that exert maladapative tendencies) unwilling/incapable of learning how to play better?
I will agree that the quality of games have decreased to the point where NS isn't worth my time anymore. A year ago the games were detoriating but now playing in servers where players STILL try to lockdown two hives is definately a head scratcher to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still a rather effective strategy against pub aliens of average skill. I think it's absurd that you expect pub players to be studying and memorizing scrim tactics to use in pub games. The reality is that most of them just don't care that much, in any game. If they did, they'd join a clan.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems that the playerbase is evolving back to 1.04, because during that time not a lot of players knew what to do, and it seems that the latest version is mimicing that effect.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Surely this couldn't be because the latest version is relatively new, right?
not long ago (maybe week tops) there was a game playing where marines were holding one hive throughout the whole game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's every single game played on that server. Marines never attack a building hive or even RTs for that matter and still win the majority. Until the game is actually balanced to punish defensive marines - no matter the server's size, it will continue.
It's still a rather effective strategy against pub aliens of average skill. I think it's absurd that you expect pub players to be studying and memorizing scrim tactics to use in pub games. The reality is that most of them just don't care that much, in any game. If they did, they'd join a clan.
Surely this couldn't be because the latest version is relatively new, right?
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But the baseline gameplay is still the same in the versions since 2.01, I do not see why there should be such a significant learning curve for something that should be at this time so natural.
I expect pub players, especially those that claim to be so skilled, to figure out more effective paths of playing the game, I didn't say that they should memorize scrim tactics, I'm saying that the general "so skilled" community should have moved beyond the two hive lockdown.
If they aren't willing to use the tactics neccesary to achieve victory than they have no right to ###### about balance because they don't care that much right?
<a href="http://www.putfile.com/flayra/media" target="_blank">http://www.putfile.com/flayra/media</a>
I mention that to say this: we've had a ton of new faces on our NS server(s) lately. Players new both only to our community and entirely to our game, and it's been a pleasure to welcome them all and ask the newbies what questions we can answer about the game.
It's refreshing to see so many new faces and watch them learn the game. One of NS' greatest accomplishment is providing such a wealth of opportunity for the player who thirsts to learn as he plays.
Meh. I respect that some people are tired of this game. It's the way of humans. And I respect that a minority of those players take satisfaction from sharing that fatigue in forums. It's the way of the Internet. Granted, I just had a kid and have a fraction of the playtime I used to, but I'm still enjoying the game, and its players, very much.
I won't dispute that there are good reasons for me to stop playing this game (the first post's drama kept me from spending more time on it than was necessary to skim it), but I can't overlook that they remain outnumbered by the reasons I should not.
Our server recently expanded from one server to two, and it's common that both servers are full at the same time during any given evening. One could argue that it's because we're on the short list of servers worth playing on in North America right now, and that one or both of the servers will sit idle when (or, if you insist, "if") NS comes out of its current "slump," but that's not the point.
I mention that to say this: we've had a ton of new faces on our NS server(s) lately. Players new both only to our community and entirely to our game, and it's been a pleasure to welcome them all and ask the newbies what questions we can answer about the game.
It's refreshing to see so many new faces and watch them learn the game. One of NS' greatest accomplishment is providing such a wealth of opportunity for the player who thirsts to learn as he plays.
Meh. I respect that some people are tired of this game. It's the way of humans. And I respect that a minority of those players take satisfaction from sharing that fatigue in forums. It's the way of the Internet. Granted, I just had a kid and have a fraction of the playtime I used to, but I'm still enjoying the game, and its players, very much.
I won't dispute that there are good reasons for me to stop playing this game (the first post's drama kept me from spending more time on it than was necessary to skim it), but I can't overlook that they remain outnumbered by the reasons I should not.
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One server's testimonial does not speak for the entire NS community as a whole, how many communities shutdown as your expanded? Armslab is no more, so there is atleast one community that is down. As far as fresh new faces, again its just your one server. Your testimonial does not compare with the constant drop in player statistics since 2.01.
As far as players expressing fatigue, I see no problem with it as long as the criticism is constructive. I'm glad to see the NS dev team develop some skin as this thread would have been locked immediately a year ago.
I still feel that there are a lack of oppurtunities for former players that may not fit in with a lot of the server communities, as well as being unhappy with the current gameplay changes. Natural attrition happens in everygame, but it appeared NS sped up its downward spiral when the forums went down.
Unfortunately, your experiences do not seem to generalize with the rest of the NS community, as your stats go up, the stats of the entire community goes down.
Not in enough number to have any real impact on the teamplay or skill level of the server.
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Skilled players do pub. As much as competitive players prefer scrimming/pugging to pubbing, sometimes they don't have the luxury of finding another 11 players who are also online at the same time to get a game going. A good player coming in and carrying the entire team happens all the time.
I don't think expecting players who have been playing for months, years even, to know some basics of gameplay such as "Let the HMG cover and the LMG build, not the other way around", or "Don't armory hump while the phase gate is getting chewed down" is too much. Yet, most people continually to have a very slim grasp of gameplay in NS - I think this is most reflected in the commanding styles of most players. I honestly cannot remember any commanders on a pub who did anything other than attempt to lock down hives and slowly tech for fully upgraded heavies. When I comm and I tell my marines I don't want a phase gate in whatever hive they are currently in, they get offended, start complaining about the "noob comm", and try to eject me. Whenever a game is lost, I am told that it is because I didn't turret everything in sight up and electrify all the nodes. I find it amazing that so many people think winning a game without turret farming is inconceivable.
One server's testimonial does not speak for the entire NS community as a whole, how many communities shutdown as your expanded?
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Mr| Community died about, i dont even know 4-5 months ago? somethin like that. Thats when i decided to get donator on g4b2s just cuz it was always full, any time of day.
In the past month or so, Mr| server changed to 3.2, and bam, its full everynight, and our old regulars playerbase has been consistently trickling back into NS from the other games they'd gone into (DOTA in particular). Plus, there've been fresh faces every night mixed in with the regs.
So maybe his one server's testimonial doesn't speak for the entire community, but you can double everything he said about TG for Mr.
Is it their fault they just want to play a game to have fun, rather than take a course to play it? Nobody wants to take this "HOW TO LEARN NS" training BS that we try to encourage. They simply want to jump into the game, which is what I did.
So they are in the game, along with half the server as decent players. Then you have a few skilled players that completely dominate the game with their 42-5 fade or marine scores. Every time they would gorge, marines would gank them. There might be a time where the onos egged at the hive and got knifed. Or they might be gassing marines at ayumi, only to have a marine come from behind in the vents and kill them.
Not only do you have to know all these rules and sub rules for the game, but also how the map plays as well as common tactics. I think what is being asked is in fact unreasonable.
So it's not a mystery why people swarm over to CO servers. They are easy to learn, easy to recover from and they have a much better chance against the other team than the "few players dominate" all play of NS.
What I would like is something Warcraft 3 and Halo 2 use - skill matching. When you are matched with people at your skill level, games tend to be longer, balanced and end closely. I believe these are the best games. But can this idea be done?
Or we can accept fate that no matter what happens, we will have to throw all the apples, oranges and potatoes in the same box. With that said, the only thing that can be done is to change the game itself to accomodate for all of these different players.
So instead of having one player dominate the game, focus more on a team effort to get it going. That way, even a team of average players can have a chance against an opposition with one extremely good aimer/fader. Or rather make the game easier, to keep the potentials of extremely skilled players low enough to prevent extremely lopsided games.
I don't believe RFK is the problem, because if we were to have a balanced NS game, both teams would receive relatively similar amounts. It is a problem however, when you have a few clanners join one team and stack it so the game is over before it even starts.
When people start getting off the mentality of blaming new players for "not being good enough" and actually look at ways the game can accomodate them, can we make progress. We've tried that way and all that's happened is the user base keeps dying. I only see 2 or so decent servers to play a game of NS on. It's gotten so bad that one of my friends thought NS was a "mode" of combat.
I just hope the dev team will try harder to keep interest up in the community. When was the last time we had any big news of NS2? Use the main website to your advantage and post updates on development there... It breaks my heart to visit the main site and see that the news topic is not really important news at all ... c'mon, a tournament update after 2 weeks of nothing?? There GOTS to be something new!
Rant over.
All in all, I think the game is still worth playing but it just seems like we are being told not to have high hopes.
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I agree with Sherpa on how stable the Euro scene is. Both ENSL and YO have been stable. infact, we've seen a ton of new players filling our server recently - on the order of about 4000 in only 2 months. A hell of a lot.
I think the only thing that could kill NS, is NS2. Which is a good thing. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. I don't think this is a valid assumption at all. Yes, there are a certain amount of those types of player, but there are a lot of new players who need to be nurtured. In one breath people complain that NS is in trouble because there are no new players, some of you then go on to complain about how NS is dying because there are too many new players. You can't have it both ways. The communities who have continued to be welcoming to new players and who have a commitment to a friendly environment are the ones who are still healthy.
I'm not saying that we haven't made mistakes, or that the forum downtime hasn't hurt our player numbers, but there is room for growth and there are plenty of signs of health and I think if some of you overly pessimistic players put the effort in you would reap the benefits you claim you desire.
Or to summarise, you see noobs, I see future competent public players and if you're lucky, perhaps a few who go onto play in clans.
And please, lets not get focused on which style of play is better. We've had this 'different strokes for different folks' debate too many times for it to add anything to the discussion.