puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited February 2007
Well, I'm not convinced they are the problem, but assuming there is some truth to this speculation, the solution is straight foward. Play more NS.
Negativity can easily start a downward spiral. I've seen it happen in many communities both online and offline. With so many people in need of a high-skill NS server, surely it would be really easy to start one.
And new players are definitely not the problem, but they are going to be central to the solution.
<!--quoteo(post=1604771:date=Feb 8 2007, 12:21 PM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Feb 8 2007, 12:21 PM) [snapback]1604771[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->With so many people in need of a high-skill NS server, surely it would be really easy to start one. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->At one point I suggested that NS takes an active role in promoting 'good' servers. You've said you won't include siege maps in the 'official' mappack you're looking into compiling, so the team (via you as spokesperson) is obviously okay with giving an official stance on servers you think go against the gameplay you want to see in NS. Why not go one step further and create some sort of officially endorsed server awards system. You could have 'server of the month', 'best {classic/combat} {Euro/East Coast/West Coast/Asia/Aus} server', 'best beginners {Euro/East Coast/West Coast/Asia/Aus} server', etc.
You could have it voted on by a group of veteran NS players; perhaps forum community members who have been around since 200X or perhaps the Constellation (who are, arguably, more likely to play NS regularly and know what makes a good server). This way you're promoting servers that (in the opinion of NS's players) don't ruin the game, are well-run, well-adminned and encourage their regulars to help teach people the basics and the advanced bits of NS.
If you agree to some degree that the quality of server dictates how much you're going to get out of NS, why not reward the most welcoming, helpful servers and encourage more well-run NS servers populated by helpful individuals? If the results of the NS2 survey are anything to go by, more community support is one of the things people want to see with the future of NS. Perhaps you could make an early start on that now?
<!--quoteo(post=1604768:date=Feb 8 2007, 07:07 AM:name=puzl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(puzl @ Feb 8 2007, 07:07 AM) [snapback]1604768[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. There a
There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. I don't think this is a valid assumption at all. Yes, there are a certain amount of those types of player, but there are a lot of new players who need to be nurtured. In one breath people complain that NS is in trouble because there are no new players, some of you then go on to complain about how NS is dying because there are too many new players. You can't have it both ways. The communities who have continued to be welcoming to new players and who have a commitment to a friendly environment are the ones who are still healthy.
I'm not saying that we haven't made mistakes, or that the forum downtime hasn't hurt our player numbers, but there is room for growth and there are plenty of signs of health and I think if some of you overly pessimistic players put the effort in you would reap the benefits you claim you desire.
Or to summarise, you see noobs, I see future competent public players and if you're lucky, perhaps a few who go onto play in clans.
And please, lets not get focused on which style of play is better. We've had this 'different strokes for different folks' debate too many times for it to add anything to the discussion. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who are these new players that need nurturing going to learn from? The same players that are maladaptive? Because apparently there is a shortage of players that know what they are doing in the pub servers, these new players will not know any better and learn from those who aren't very skilled or talented.
These are the same new players who will not learn the effective tactics to compete against those who are super skilled, as well be more susceptible to frustration when their seemingly effective tactics become worthless against those who have a decent clue of whats going on.
I tried to close the skill gap between pub players and competitive players by creating NSlearn with Mustang. The project was moderately successful, but a lot of players who came for one lesson would seldom return for another. Now that could mean that they just wanted to learn one or two things and never have to return, or they just didn't bother/cared enough after that one time.
Our biggest success was our articles. A 5 minute read could improve atleast the knowledge of the game so that players could play better. The problem is now the competitive community has dwindled down to the point where there isn't enough players that care enough to develop a similar training program. With no company that wants to put out a product, and with no demand for a product, why bother manufacturing it?
If someone has an idea or method of how to run an NS server that promotes high level play but that the same time caters to those who are new, let me know and I will throw up another NS server on our box.
<!--quoteo(post=1604824:date=Feb 8 2007, 11:03 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Feb 8 2007, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1604824[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If someone has an idea or method of how to run an NS server that promotes high level play but that the same time caters to those who are new, let me know and I will throw up another NS server on our box.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Password it and use it for gathers/pugs; any server with a considerably higher skill level than your average pub server will stop new players playing on it, because they will get raped and won't be able to accept it's because they're just playing with better players. NS players by and large have very little tolerance - after all why get raped on a classic server and learn something when you can go to a 30 man extralevels combat server, right?
Combat needs to be removed in order for this community to continue to evolve with the game - splitting your community never works.
<!--quoteo(post=1604824:date=Feb 8 2007, 11:03 AM:name=Firewater)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Firewater @ Feb 8 2007, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1604824[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> If someone has an idea or method of how to run an NS server that promotes high level play but that the same time caters to those who are new, let me know and I will throw up another NS server on our box. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this has actually been made to work at least partially with the nsfinland servers. new players (mostly finns though) are likely to join them since they have the word "finland" in the server name.
now the trick is that nsfi also hosts pugs (or gathers), during which public play on the server will cease. the pugs are clearly advertised and anyone with a grasp with irc can join them. the fact that the server is then passworded and the topic changed to "[GATHER MODE]" hints the newbie that this is something mystical and awesome and i must take part in it. and so he does, eventually. more often than not (i think) the newbie will load irc and proceed to play a game of ns that is of higher level both in organisation and, hopefully, fun.
And if it isn't removed, the two playerbases need some form of separation. Combat kiddies don't want to deal with arrogant condescending vets, and some of the vets would like to have a somewhat competent team to play with on at least some pub servers some of the time.
Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved.
<!--quoteo(post=1604869:date=Feb 8 2007, 02:21 PM:name=Harrower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harrower @ Feb 8 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]1604869[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved.
Give them what they want and cut your losses. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1604869:date=Feb 8 2007, 02:21 PM:name=Harrower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harrower @ Feb 8 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]1604869[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Killing a 40 man raid boss with specialized attacks, tricks, and weaknesses, where any one person can wipe the entire raid involves no strategy or cognitive ability, while flying a jetpack to a hive with about 2 or 3 other teammates does?
defending WoW aside, I should try out NS again. I kinda miss it. I hope the Lunixmonster is still up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1604869:date=Feb 8 2007, 02:21 PM:name=Harrower)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harrower @ Feb 8 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]1604869[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> And if it isn't removed, the two playerbases need some form of separation. Combat kiddies don't want to deal with arrogant condescending vets, and some of the vets would like to have a somewhat competent team to play with on at least some pub servers some of the time.
Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved.
Give them what they want and cut your losses. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wow, the point is to take out the other guys as FAST AS POSSIBLE? OMG how can this be? sorry i do not want to paly a game where people want to be efficient and take out there opponent as well as they possibly can.
(sarcasm)
on a serious note, i bet you are the guy in AV that caps snowfall GY so we can have a 10 hour game.
<!--quoteo(post=1604886:date=Feb 8 2007, 12:08 PM:name=MrBananaMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MrBananaMan @ Feb 8 2007, 12:08 PM) [snapback]1604886[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> wow, the point is to take out the other guys as FAST AS POSSIBLE? OMG how can this be? sorry i do not want to paly a game where people want to be efficient and take out there opponent as well as they possibly can. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, endlessly slamming yourself against the enemy hive/CC is very strategic! The only thing combat has in common with NS is the weapons and lifeforms. There is no concept of resource control. There is no concept of penalties for dying, aside from a gestation time. There are no structures aside from the CC, armory, and Hive.
<b>things that brought us to the current state of affairs 1) classic balanced only for 6v6.</b> ---there are tons more larger servers who get many more players than the 6v6s ---most players play pub only (95% or more i'd guess) which is usually a large server
<b>2) betas are tested by veterans</b> ---veterans make up 10% of the players, if that ---newbies and experienced players cannot play as well with kharaa as the veterans can. to the point where the game is totally stacked against noob or selfish kharaa
<b>3) aliens have much more downtime then marines. and thus are less fun.</b> ---evolving and ambushing all eat up time and marines do neither ---just about everyone has to gorge once
<b>4) kharaa require greater skill</b> ---a dead fade means end game ---fades are hard to use ---lerks are hard to use ---skulks require patience and planning. two things most people don't have or do. ---teamwork and specific cooperation of lifeforms is required
<b>5) kharaa requires more teamwork and knowledge</b> ---lerks need to keep marines gassed ---skulks need to be in packs or hiding ---nearly everyone must gorge once ---everyone has to forfeit going onos, fade or lerk sometime ---aliens must always watch for ninjas
<b>6) the same stats are used to balance co and ns.</b> ---they are two totally different gametypes! it's insanity to balance both with the same stats. ---my suggestion: balance for ns.
<b>7) co divided the community even more</b> ---before there was pub 6v6 to 9v9 large pub 9v9 to 16v16 custom pub clan game servers bot servers ---after there was pub 6v6 to 9v9 large pub 9v9 to 16v16 custom pub clan game servers bot servers co only co w/ lots of plugins only co/ns <--- maybe one of these still around ---co players cannot play ns strategies and playstyles are not carried over. case and point skulks with focus and cloak. not to mention extra levels. co players become individualistic and don't like teamwork or making sacrifices for the team. also teamwork naturally happens in co because of the smaller maps and thus organization skills are not needed. ---co players don't want to play ns it's too much stress. it's too different it takes a lot of time to figure out plugins + extralevels are more exciting individual play and score is emphasized ---so basically two basic types were created: teamplayers and rambos there are more rambos rambos play marine on ns b/c it's almost a guarantee your team will be at least competent rambos complain in I&S forum if they can't easily get kills to make themselves feel good rambos say it takes too much teamwork on marines
<b>8) devs make it so that teamwork is required, difficult to understand, difficult to teach, difficult to perform and hard to organize on kharaa</b> ---someone good must fade ---bad players must drop rts and chambers ---someone must save for hive ---once armor 1 is up lerks must gas to help skulks ---skulks must work in groups ---skulks must take down rts ---onos musn't do anything other than stomp around corners in short hallways ---skulks must check out hives and siege points ---dying as fade or lerk more often than not means game over ---noobs save res till onos and die (effectively putting you down a player) ---you MUST sacrifice for the team at one point ---the learning curve for aliens is stupid high ---there is no one person directing alien action <---- large issue
<b>9) there are too many types and styles of ns play</b> ---it's ridiculous. not one server is the same! how can you balance or fix that. ---many many players aren't happy with the style of play basic ns provides them. Like I for one prefer large games.
10) there was/is a large lack of respect for mappers in the community by the devs. there was some but not nearly what it should have been
11) the forums went down for forever and all discussion and fanbase stopped and much of it will never come back.
11.5) no exact direction for either ns or ns2 has been provided. what exactly are they working towards? a game that caters to ramboing cs players or teamwork with rts elements?
12) basically for the last forever the devs have been taking the fun out aliens and pubs. . ..okay maybe that is a bit extreme so i'll change it to "no significant attempt has been made at addressing the issue that the kharaa are less fun and more difficult to play and that pub servers (especially large ones) are neglected and treated as second rate."
the only reason why i still play is because i like the community i am in. and once we switch to something else, i won't be playing ns anymore.
<!--quoteo(post=1604954:date=Feb 9 2007, 12:20 AM:name=commofdoom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(commofdoom @ Feb 9 2007, 12:20 AM) [snapback]1604954[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 12) basically for the last forever the devs have been taking the fun out aliens and pubs. . ..okay maybe that is a bit extreme so i'll change it to "no significant attempt has been made at addressing the issue that the kharaa are less fun and more difficult to play and that pub servers (especially large ones) are neglected and treated as second rate." the only reason why i still play is because i like the community i am in. and once we switch to something else, i won't be playing ns anymore. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->- What amout the 'alien movement' key? This has undoubtedly put newbie players and veteran players on a more even footing since you don't have to use a script or lastinv to Leap-Bite or Blink-Swipe. I find Fading much easier now I can concentrate more on Swiping and less on switching between movement and attack; now I can do both simultaneously via a much more intuitive control setup.
- What about Hive transport? This evens up the chambers and means that you won't necessarily get whinged at for dropping anything but MC first if you're a newbie.
- What about self-heal for Gorge? Now you can effectively have self-sufficient field medics, encouraging more newbies to try and stick with Gorge (meaning a higher likelihood of newbies dropping Hives and upgrade chambers).
- What about the modified Lerk flight that means you don't get nigh-on-impossible-to-hit pancaking Lerks flying around and owning everyone?
- You're also putting across an opinion that ignores the recent additions to the official map cycle, and the new official mappack being discussed.
While you make some good points (e.g. balancing the game for co_ and ns_), your backward-looking rhetoric fails to acknowledge any of the recent positive changes to NS and the way its community is run.
1: Yes. 2: No. 3: Yes. 4: Hell no. 5: Yes to teamwork, no to knowledge. You're just not used to it. 6: Yes. 7: Best point in your post. 8: This problem is inherent in any complex game. It's the nature of the beast. 9: That's because most of the servers are bad. 10: I have no idea what you're talking about. 11: Yes. 11.5: Who the ###### uses the number 11.5 in a list? 12: You're obviously a combat player.
This is why the game isn't more popular:
H1) The leadership looked dead for about a year.
H2) Perma gorging is a monotonous pain in the a$$, and necessary.
H3) Biting down nodes is a monotonous pain in the a$$, and necessary.
H4) Lifeforming has novelty value, but should not be attempted by bad players (who are most drawn to novelties).
Your game's flow is unintuitive in the extreme, and leads new players to the exact opposite end of where they should be. It turns noobs off because they get raped, so they then (very reasonably) go and hide in combat servers.
2) betas are tested by veterans ---veterans make up 10% of the players, if that ---newbies and experienced players cannot play as well with kharaa as the veterans can. to the point where the game is totally stacked against noob or selfish kharaa
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i dunno exactly what you mean by veterans, but 98% of european play testers are pub players(who never tryed competitive ns) and they just hunt for the bugs and from time to time make some test balances(can't say exactly cause i've never been one <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> and propably never gonna be, yeah i'm very popular ;D), you might hate them cause you feel ns became ish but i feel other way now, they did/do good job( only things i can give them a minus are invisible walls at 3.0/3.1 eclipse + elevators of doom <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />). Adding +movement +fade's new blink made fading really easy to learn and get good at it, as for marines, game doesn't end when aliens got 2nd hive up you can still play and win, that makes ns more unpredictable and it gives more fun.
- stacking is in every game and you cannot eliminate it, it's just impossible <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Who said improving at the game had to be just about aiming or fading?
You shouldn't need to understand that new players aren't going to know everything. It's like expecting someone at mcdonalds to know how to perform surgeries. Duh. And you don't seem to understand the point of my argument, which was to have a less relians on "OMG IM FASTER" twitch aiming/fading skills and more so on the STRATEGIC part of the game, which is worthless by now. Your story is cute, but come reply to me when you learn that strategy does not require laser aim reflexes.
Thanks for assuming that I'm new to the game. Go look up the word lawyer in the dictionary. Again, I've said this so many times before, all you can say to new players is "OMG GET BETTAR" while you rack those 25-3 scores just because you are playing against new players. There's a reason why there are different weight classes in boxing. There's a reason why we have different cups for racing.
I think we can all agree that playing against players of similar skill levels as us provides the most satisfying games. We can't achieve this system in NS. But what can be done is changing the game itself to accomodate all players. And before you scream, OMG NS DONT HAVE SKILLZ!, there is plenty, if not more skill in games like chess. This is what we call mental skill, not point mouse at target skill. Maybe you learned something new today.
<!--quoteo(post=1605016:date=Feb 9 2007, 05:25 AM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Feb 9 2007, 05:25 AM) [snapback]1605016[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I think we can all agree that playing against players of similar skill levels as us provides the most satisfying games. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I was playing competative NS for the 1st and a few months after that. All I wanted was to be as good as the best and enjoyed being stomped by the best. Then asking what we did wrong and what we could do as a team to improve. So you have one that disagrees!
<!--quoteo(post=1605016:date=Feb 8 2007, 09:25 PM:name=SmoodCroozn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SmoodCroozn @ Feb 8 2007, 09:25 PM) [snapback]1605016[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> And you don't seem to understand the point of my argument, which was to have a less relians on "OMG IM FASTER" twitch aiming/fading skills and more so on the STRATEGIC part of the game, which is worthless by now. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When you plateau at a certain level of understanding, you will realize how much importance strategy has in NS.
Edit: Duo needs to stop telling that story to anybody who will listen, and people who won't.
<!--quoteo(post=1605028:date=Feb 9 2007, 06:15 AM:name=Underwhelmed)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Underwhelmed @ Feb 9 2007, 06:15 AM) [snapback]1605028[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> When you plateau at a certain level of understanding, you will realize how much importance strategy has in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Strategy has everything to do with NS. You've just used every strat about 1000 times so you dont even think about it as strategy anymore, its just 'NS'. But its absolutely still there. Go have a round of CS and feel the emptiness; that void is the lack of strategy.
Yeah I know, there are a lot of players that come up with "brilliant" tactics and strategies because if you aren't skilled, you must be smart.
These players today are still pub allstars and if they went competitive they would subject themselves to a loss that would violate everything they were conditioned to in NS.
I would rather execute a ###### strategy to a T then have a great plan and not be able to follow through with it. I wonder which side would win more games....
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
edited February 2007
I'm locking this topic for now because I'm too busy at work to give it the moderation it needs. The topic will be unlocked later. I suggest those of you who are taking the topic of discussion too personally should consider just staying out of it when it reopens.
I hadn't played NS in like a year or two. I read the thread with everyone complaining about the state of NS, and ironically it made me jump back in and give it a try again. I was totally lost and was a proverbial newb all over again, but accepting that, I had a fun time. It was about 5v5, I was an alien. pretty much everyone except me was using teamwork via voicecomm (I would too but my gf was sleeping). I gorged and dropped RTs and chambers, since I knew I'd just die and waste res if I faded like my team suggested I do. Everyone was nice and sportsmanlike, and the game seemed pretty well-balanced. It seemed like the marines could win a couple times, but the aliens kept turning em back and eventually won.
I accept that not all games can be like this, but surely NS is still alive and well if the first pug I jumped into after a couple years was friendly and fun and with a reasonably high skill level. I don't want it to seem like I'm evading puzl's thread lock on the other thread, so please don't flame <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1605155:date=Feb 9 2007, 02:38 PM:name=Thief)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thief @ Feb 9 2007, 02:38 PM) [snapback]1605155[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> I am happy for you <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I hope you have that server IP address saved in your favourites, good servers can be hard to come by.
Now... where was I? Oh yeah: GGing it up on <i>Yo Clan Classic</i> server (Euro) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
BlooVillage Fool of UWFJoin Date: 2006-11-09Member: 58497Members
The good servers are always full <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
(NS servers that is)
I also have an issue with my latency forcing me to change server, then change back every cupple of hours. ppl always ninja my spot.
<!--quoteo(post=1605300:date=Feb 10 2007, 09:44 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Feb 10 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]1605300[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It's simple: Find a good server, get a good game.
I hope you have that server IP address saved in your favourites, good servers can be hard to come by.
Now... where was I? Oh yeah: GGing it up on <i>Yo Clan Classic</i> server (Euro) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is finding a good server that fits your needs. With communities dying off, it kind of forces people to play on a server that does not meet their standards if they want to play the game. People begin to lose their attachment to NS and simply go elsewhere (meaning a different game, or not game as much at all).
I played on YO clan, I loved it. I tried to keep NSarmslab.com running, but I failed. A lot of other server communities have failed as well due to stagnation within the community. Because a lot of players cannot find a good fit, they simply just leave the game.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Topic is cleaned up somewhat and merged with the other related topic.
Lets try to keep it on topic this time. This is not a discussion about: why public ns is better/worse than competitive ns, not a discussion on who is better at the game or who understands the game best.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem is finding a good server that fits your needs. With communities dying off, it kind of forces people to play on a server that does not meet their standards if they want to play the game. People begin to lose their attachment to NS and simply go elsewhere (meaning a different game, or not game as much at all).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This sums it up for me. I love this game, but it is increasingly hard to find a server to play on that is a good fit for me. Using the filters "NS, <150 ping, not full, has players , not passworded, and don't have bots" I get 3 servers and most of the time two of those are actually full except for the reserved slot.
They all are guaranteed to switch between the maps Tanith, Eclipse, and Veil exclusively and more than likely lack a competent commander on the server.
I don't feel like this game is broken at all, I feel like the servers are. Being split between different versions makes this even worse.
I'm sorry, but it is extremely frustrating that the majority of players won't touch any other maps besides those three. I groan every time a map vote comes up. Recently I got excited because the map changed to Lost for a round or two, then the server admin quickly fixed that.
I mean come on, there are what, 18 NS maps in the game and 3-5 get played regularly? Who wouldn't get bored? I haven't even had a chance to play on any of the new maps because no one will run them. Even if they aren't balanced lets mix it up a little people!
It's sad, but I find myself loading DOD more than NS now because I feel frustrated with the few servers that run 3.2B2 and starting my own server just isn't an option. Let's face it, another server wouldn't help anyway, it would just sit empty.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> 1. For all of you who played 1.04, you can all agree with me that 1.04 was a lot more FUN than 3.2. The current release is just so F****** boring. Game Starts. A node or two goes down. A attempt to take down a hive. Hive goes down, or stays up. Fades annoy and die. Marines pressure and die. Game ends with a recycle or plain alien loss due to lack of nodes and higher lifeforms with 1 hive. It is the same stupid BS over and over again.
I mean at least in 1.04 there were 4 hour games where even if marines had jetpacks and level 3 hmgs, or the aliens had 3 hives the game was still going on. I don't remember that much repitition in 1.04 (besides the jetpack rush which was lame sometimes) at all. Over the years, NS has just gotten ishtier and ishtier. It all started with 2.0, and it went downhill from there. 3.0 beta 5 was pretty fun though because ramboing as a marine was pretty enjoyable. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's NS. In 1.04, you could paint a similar picture. Game Starts. A node or two goes down (or base gets rushed or hive gets shotty silent bhop rushed depending on the quality of the game). An attempt to take down the hive or just wait to tech to hmgs. Fades either +duck rampaged or instantly died (depending if there was one or two marines that knew where to aim on the fade). Marines pressure and die (or dominate if they knew the secret spots to shoot on the lifeforms). Game ends in a variety of different but equally stupid ways. a) 3 hives go down in 2 minutes to 3 ninja hmg jetpackers, b) aliens never go beyond 1 hive because marines dominate them, c) marines never leave their base because aliens dominate them (or one player has PSHB and owns everything in marine start), and so on. It really depends what server you play on. The more competent the players are, the worse the imbalances show - regardless the version. It has been mentioned before, the average player back in 1.04 was much worse than he is now.
What you get out of any game of NS is completely subjective. Ramboing is probably the only major noticeable "fun" aspect of the game that really got cut over the versions. That and randomly getting semi-invul mode due to a bug with HL's last server slot (remember all those times that you magically became godlike one day and were terrible as usual on others?). The rest of the misery is due to there being less servers and a decreased playerbase with an average skill level that is much higher (mostly due to there only really being hardcore regulars that actually play classic NS nowadays).
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The community is crap. There is no decent server to play on. Tactical Gamer is full of morons now because of the second server opening up, and NS armslab isn't too far behind in that department. Every other server has 5 million level combat servers with BS_1 which basically scares any decent competitive player away.
Then theres the ###### like me that go into servers, and either rape everyone or die because our team blows. And you guys wonder why we cry for shotguns in pubs. Better off giving it to us, than some noob with a 1-24 score.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Classic servers are becoming extinct and combat is a pretty popular mode of mindless gameplay that anybody can get sucked into regardless of skill. Everyone can blow and they'd still have fun doing it, that's how it is for any popular game. Honestly, BS_1 shouldn't scare away decent players - only whiny ones that can't handle parting with their pistol, bhop, and teamchat scripts for an hour or so.
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. For all of you who are looking forward to the next NS, and the only reason why you play this build is because your waiting for the next one go to your system 32 folder and hit these buttons in order: (ctrl + a), delete, enter. News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out
See most of you in 2 weeks. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're playing this game for the purposes of passing time while waiting for the next release, you're trapped in a cycle that you're either unaware of or that makes you feel secure. Is NS a crutch to use in avoiding other experiences in life? What's the point? I'm not encouraging anyone to change, but more so pointing out that waiting isn't really a reason to keep playing. If you're playing the game, you are dedicating your time to the game. You don't have to play the game while waiting for the next release. There's obviously something else that makes you come back. Some people come back because they enjoy the game. Others because they don't enjoy it.
NS can be enjoyable depending on what you are expecting from it. If you're competitive, pub play is pretty much an eyesore right now, especially with the diminished server count. If you're not competitive, you can limbo in pub play reasonably easily. It is easier if you have someone to help you maintain the feeling that playing the game is worth something to you. Everyone has a reason for playing a game. NS is no different. As long as there are enough people to play the game, there is no reason for anyone to quit if they feel that the game is worth something to them.
There are actually 3 good reasons to quit:
1. If you're addicted to the game and there are negative impacts on your life 2. If the opportunity costs (i.e. things you could have done instead of playing the game) will make you regret having played it later down the line 3. If you're not getting any benefit out of playing or you're not aware of the benefits
Comments
Negativity can easily start a downward spiral. I've seen it happen in many communities both online and offline. With so many people in need of a high-skill NS server, surely it would be really easy to start one.
And new players are definitely not the problem, but they are going to be central to the solution.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->At one point I suggested that NS takes an active role in promoting 'good' servers. You've said you won't include siege maps in the 'official' mappack you're looking into compiling, so the team (via you as spokesperson) is obviously okay with giving an official stance on servers you think go against the gameplay you want to see in NS. Why not go one step further and create some sort of officially endorsed server awards system. You could have 'server of the month', 'best {classic/combat} {Euro/East Coast/West Coast/Asia/Aus} server', 'best beginners {Euro/East Coast/West Coast/Asia/Aus} server', etc.
You could have it voted on by a group of veteran NS players; perhaps forum community members who have been around since 200X or perhaps the Constellation (who are, arguably, more likely to play NS regularly and know what makes a good server). This way you're promoting servers that (in the opinion of NS's players) don't ruin the game, are well-run, well-adminned and encourage their regulars to help teach people the basics and the advanced bits of NS.
If you agree to some degree that the quality of server dictates how much you're going to get out of NS, why not reward the most welcoming, helpful servers and encourage more well-run NS servers populated by helpful individuals? If the results of the NS2 survey are anything to go by, more community support is one of the things people want to see with the future of NS. Perhaps you could make an early start on that now?
There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. There a
There is an assumption that most of the people who aren't playing NS effectively are old players who refuse to learn. I don't think this is a valid assumption at all. Yes, there are a certain amount of those types of player, but there are a lot of new players who need to be nurtured. In one breath people complain that NS is in trouble because there are no new players, some of you then go on to complain about how NS is dying because there are too many new players. You can't have it both ways. The communities who have continued to be welcoming to new players and who have a commitment to a friendly environment are the ones who are still healthy.
I'm not saying that we haven't made mistakes, or that the forum downtime hasn't hurt our player numbers, but there is room for growth and there are plenty of signs of health and I think if some of you overly pessimistic players put the effort in you would reap the benefits you claim you desire.
Or to summarise, you see noobs, I see future competent public players and if you're lucky, perhaps a few who go onto play in clans.
And please, lets not get focused on which style of play is better. We've had this 'different strokes for different folks' debate too many times for it to add anything to the discussion.
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Who are these new players that need nurturing going to learn from? The same players that are maladaptive? Because apparently there is a shortage of players that know what they are doing in the pub servers, these new players will not know any better and learn from those who aren't very skilled or talented.
These are the same new players who will not learn the effective tactics to compete against those who are super skilled, as well be more susceptible to frustration when their seemingly effective tactics become worthless against those who have a decent clue of whats going on.
I tried to close the skill gap between pub players and competitive players by creating NSlearn with Mustang. The project was moderately successful, but a lot of players who came for one lesson would seldom return for another. Now that could mean that they just wanted to learn one or two things and never have to return, or they just didn't bother/cared enough after that one time.
Our biggest success was our articles. A 5 minute read could improve atleast the knowledge of the game so that players could play better. The problem is now the competitive community has dwindled down to the point where there isn't enough players that care enough to develop a similar training program. With no company that wants to put out a product, and with no demand for a product, why bother manufacturing it?
If someone has an idea or method of how to run an NS server that promotes high level play but that the same time caters to those who are new, let me know and I will throw up another NS server on our box.
Password it and use it for gathers/pugs; any server with a considerably higher skill level than your average pub server will stop new players playing on it, because they will get raped and won't be able to accept it's because they're just playing with better players. NS players by and large have very little tolerance - after all why get raped on a classic server and learn something when you can go to a 30 man extralevels combat server, right?
Combat needs to be removed in order for this community to continue to evolve with the game - splitting your community never works.
If someone has an idea or method of how to run an NS server that promotes high level play but that the same time caters to those who are new, let me know and I will throw up another NS server on our box.
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this has actually been made to work at least partially with the nsfinland servers. new players (mostly finns though) are likely to join them since they have the word "finland" in the server name.
now the trick is that nsfi also hosts pugs (or gathers), during which public play on the server will cease. the pugs are clearly advertised and anyone with a grasp with irc can join them. the fact that the server is then passworded and the topic changed to "[GATHER MODE]" hints the newbie that this is something mystical and awesome and i must take part in it. and so he does, eventually. more often than not (i think) the newbie will load irc and proceed to play a game of ns that is of higher level both in organisation and, hopefully, fun.
Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved.
Give them what they want and cut your losses.
Give them what they want and cut your losses.
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Quote of the century.
Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved.
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Killing a 40 man raid boss with specialized attacks, tricks, and weaknesses, where any one person can wipe the entire raid involves no strategy or cognitive ability, while flying a jetpack to a hive with about 2 or 3 other teammates does?
defending WoW aside, I should try out NS again. I kinda miss it. I hope the Lunixmonster is still up <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
And if it isn't removed, the two playerbases need some form of separation. Combat kiddies don't want to deal with arrogant condescending vets, and some of the vets would like to have a somewhat competent team to play with on at least some pub servers some of the time.
Combat does nothing to usher new players into the real game you developed. The community that plays combat is the same community that plays WoW or pub CS - they want to pwn everyone all the time as fast as possible with no strategy or cognitive ability involved.
Give them what they want and cut your losses.
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wow, the point is to take out the other guys as FAST AS POSSIBLE? OMG how can this be? sorry i do not want to paly a game where people want to be efficient and take out there opponent as well as they possibly can.
(sarcasm)
on a serious note, i bet you are the guy in AV that caps snowfall GY so we can have a 10 hour game.
wow, the point is to take out the other guys as FAST AS POSSIBLE? OMG how can this be? sorry i do not want to paly a game where people want to be efficient and take out there opponent as well as they possibly can.
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Yes, endlessly slamming yourself against the enemy hive/CC is very strategic! The only thing combat has in common with NS is the weapons and lifeforms. There is no concept of resource control. There is no concept of penalties for dying, aside from a gestation time. There are no structures aside from the CC, armory, and Hive.
Ben and Harrower win this thread.
1) classic balanced only for 6v6.</b>
---there are tons more larger servers who get many more players than the 6v6s
---most players play pub only (95% or more i'd guess) which is usually a large server
<b>2) betas are tested by veterans</b>
---veterans make up 10% of the players, if that
---newbies and experienced players cannot play as well with kharaa as the veterans can. to the point where the game is totally stacked against noob or selfish kharaa
<b>3) aliens have much more downtime then marines. and thus are less fun.</b>
---evolving and ambushing all eat up time and marines do neither
---just about everyone has to gorge once
<b>4) kharaa require greater skill</b>
---a dead fade means end game
---fades are hard to use
---lerks are hard to use
---skulks require patience and planning. two things most people don't have or do.
---teamwork and specific cooperation of lifeforms is required
<b>5) kharaa requires more teamwork and knowledge</b>
---lerks need to keep marines gassed
---skulks need to be in packs or hiding
---nearly everyone must gorge once
---everyone has to forfeit going onos, fade or lerk sometime
---aliens must always watch for ninjas
<b>6) the same stats are used to balance co and ns.</b>
---they are two totally different gametypes! it's insanity to balance both with the same stats.
---my suggestion: balance for ns.
<b>7) co divided the community even more</b>
---before there was
pub 6v6 to 9v9
large pub 9v9 to 16v16
custom pub
clan game servers
bot servers
---after there was
pub 6v6 to 9v9
large pub 9v9 to 16v16
custom pub
clan game servers
bot servers
co only
co w/ lots of plugins only
co/ns <--- maybe one of these still around
---co players cannot play ns
strategies and playstyles are not carried over. case and point skulks with focus and cloak. not to mention extra levels. co players become individualistic and don't like teamwork or making sacrifices for the team. also teamwork naturally happens in co because of the smaller maps and thus organization skills are not needed.
---co players don't want to play ns
it's too much stress.
it's too different
it takes a lot of time to figure out
plugins + extralevels are more exciting
individual play and score is emphasized
---so basically two basic types were created: teamplayers and rambos
there are more rambos
rambos play marine on ns b/c it's almost a guarantee your team will be at least competent
rambos complain in I&S forum if they can't easily get kills to make themselves feel good
rambos say it takes too much teamwork on marines
<b>8) devs make it so that teamwork is required, difficult to understand, difficult to teach, difficult to perform and hard to organize on kharaa</b>
---someone good must fade
---bad players must drop rts and chambers
---someone must save for hive
---once armor 1 is up lerks must gas to help skulks
---skulks must work in groups
---skulks must take down rts
---onos musn't do anything other than stomp around corners in short hallways
---skulks must check out hives and siege points
---dying as fade or lerk more often than not means game over
---noobs save res till onos and die (effectively putting you down a player)
---you MUST sacrifice for the team at one point
---the learning curve for aliens is stupid high
---there is no one person directing alien action <---- large issue
<b>9) there are too many types and styles of ns play</b>
---it's ridiculous. not one server is the same! how can you balance or fix that.
---many many players aren't happy with the style of play basic ns provides them. Like I for one prefer large games.
10) there was/is a large lack of respect for mappers in the community by the devs. there was some but not nearly what it should have been
11) the forums went down for forever and all discussion and fanbase stopped and much of it will never come back.
11.5) no exact direction for either ns or ns2 has been provided. what exactly are they working towards? a game that caters to ramboing cs players or teamwork with rts elements?
12) basically for the last forever the devs have been taking the fun out aliens and pubs. .
..okay maybe that is a bit extreme so i'll change it to "no significant attempt has been made at addressing the issue that the kharaa are less fun and more difficult to play and that pub servers (especially large ones) are neglected and treated as second rate."
the only reason why i still play is because i like the community i am in. and once we switch to something else, i won't be playing ns anymore.
12) basically for the last forever the devs have been taking the fun out aliens and pubs. .
..okay maybe that is a bit extreme so i'll change it to "no significant attempt has been made at addressing the issue that the kharaa are less fun and more difficult to play and that pub servers (especially large ones) are neglected and treated as second rate."
the only reason why i still play is because i like the community i am in. and once we switch to something else, i won't be playing ns anymore.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->- What amout the 'alien movement' key? This has undoubtedly put newbie players and veteran players on a more even footing since you don't have to use a script or lastinv to Leap-Bite or Blink-Swipe. I find Fading much easier now I can concentrate more on Swiping and less on switching between movement and attack; now I can do both simultaneously via a much more intuitive control setup.
- What about Hive transport? This evens up the chambers and means that you won't necessarily get whinged at for dropping anything but MC first if you're a newbie.
- What about self-heal for Gorge? Now you can effectively have self-sufficient field medics, encouraging more newbies to try and stick with Gorge (meaning a higher likelihood of newbies dropping Hives and upgrade chambers).
- What about the modified Lerk flight that means you don't get nigh-on-impossible-to-hit pancaking Lerks flying around and owning everyone?
- You're also putting across an opinion that ignores the recent additions to the official map cycle, and the new official mappack being discussed.
While you make some good points (e.g. balancing the game for co_ and ns_), your backward-looking rhetoric fails to acknowledge any of the recent positive changes to NS and the way its community is run.
2: No.
3: Yes.
4: Hell no.
5: Yes to teamwork, no to knowledge. You're just not used to it.
6: Yes.
7: Best point in your post.
8: This problem is inherent in any complex game. It's the nature of the beast.
9: That's because most of the servers are bad.
10: I have no idea what you're talking about.
11: Yes.
11.5: Who the ###### uses the number 11.5 in a list?
12: You're obviously a combat player.
This is why the game isn't more popular:
H1) The leadership looked dead for about a year.
H2) Perma gorging is a monotonous pain in the a$$, and necessary.
H3) Biting down nodes is a monotonous pain in the a$$, and necessary.
H4) Lifeforming has novelty value, but should not be attempted by bad players (who are most drawn to novelties).
Your game's flow is unintuitive in the extreme, and leads new players to the exact opposite end of where they should be. It turns noobs off because they get raped, so they then (very reasonably) go and hide in combat servers.
2) betas are tested by veterans
---veterans make up 10% of the players, if that
---newbies and experienced players cannot play as well with kharaa as the veterans can. to the point where the game is totally stacked against noob or selfish kharaa
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i dunno exactly what you mean by veterans, but 98% of european play testers are pub players(who never tryed competitive ns) and they just hunt for the bugs and from time to time make some test balances(can't say exactly cause i've never been one <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> and propably never gonna be, yeah i'm very popular ;D), you might hate them cause you feel ns became ish but i feel other way now, they did/do good job( only things i can give them a minus are invisible walls at 3.0/3.1 eclipse + elevators of doom <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />).
Adding +movement +fade's new blink made fading really easy to learn and get good at it, as for marines, game doesn't end when aliens got 2nd hive up you can still play and win, that makes ns more unpredictable and it gives more fun.
- stacking is in every game and you cannot eliminate it, it's just impossible <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
You shouldn't need to understand that new players aren't going to know everything. It's like expecting someone at mcdonalds to know how to perform surgeries. Duh. And you don't seem to understand the point of my argument, which was to have a less relians on "OMG IM FASTER" twitch aiming/fading skills and more so on the STRATEGIC part of the game, which is worthless by now. Your story is cute, but come reply to me when you learn that strategy does not require laser aim reflexes.
Thanks for assuming that I'm new to the game. Go look up the word lawyer in the dictionary. Again, I've said this so many times before, all you can say to new players is "OMG GET BETTAR" while you rack those 25-3 scores just because you are playing against new players. There's a reason why there are different weight classes in boxing. There's a reason why we have different cups for racing.
I think we can all agree that playing against players of similar skill levels as us provides the most satisfying games. We can't achieve this system in NS. But what can be done is changing the game itself to accomodate all players. And before you scream, OMG NS DONT HAVE SKILLZ!, there is plenty, if not more skill in games like chess. This is what we call mental skill, not point mouse at target skill. Maybe you learned something new today.
I think we can all agree that playing against players of similar skill levels as us provides the most satisfying games. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I was playing competative NS for the 1st and a few months after that. All I wanted was to be as good as the best and enjoyed being stomped by the best. Then asking what we did wrong and what we could do as a team to improve. So you have one that disagrees!
And you don't seem to understand the point of my argument, which was to have a less relians on "OMG IM FASTER" twitch aiming/fading skills and more so on the STRATEGIC part of the game, which is worthless by now.
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When you plateau at a certain level of understanding, you will realize how much importance strategy has in NS.
Edit: Duo needs to stop telling that story to anybody who will listen, and people who won't.
When you plateau at a certain level of understanding, you will realize how much importance strategy has in NS.
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Strategy has everything to do with NS. You've just used every strat about 1000 times so you dont even think about it as strategy anymore, its just 'NS'. But its absolutely still there. Go have a round of CS and feel the emptiness; that void is the lack of strategy.
These players today are still pub allstars and if they went competitive they would subject themselves to a loss that would violate everything they were conditioned to in NS.
I would rather execute a ###### strategy to a T then have a great plan and not be able to follow through with it. I wonder which side would win more games....
I accept that not all games can be like this, but surely NS is still alive and well if the first pug I jumped into after a couple years was friendly and fun and with a reasonably high skill level. I don't want it to seem like I'm evading puzl's thread lock on the other thread, so please don't flame <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I am happy for you
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Me too. NS still rules you know...
I hope you have that server IP address saved in your favourites, good servers can be hard to come by.
Now... where was I? Oh yeah: GGing it up on <i>Yo Clan Classic</i> server (Euro) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
(NS servers that is)
I also have an issue with my latency forcing me to change server, then change back every cupple of hours. ppl always ninja my spot.
It's simple: Find a good server, get a good game.
I hope you have that server IP address saved in your favourites, good servers can be hard to come by.
Now... where was I? Oh yeah: GGing it up on <i>Yo Clan Classic</i> server (Euro) <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
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The problem is finding a good server that fits your needs. With communities dying off, it kind of forces people to play on a server that does not meet their standards if they want to play the game. People begin to lose their attachment to NS and simply go elsewhere (meaning a different game, or not game as much at all).
I played on YO clan, I loved it. I tried to keep NSarmslab.com running, but I failed. A lot of other server communities have failed as well due to stagnation within the community. Because a lot of players cannot find a good fit, they simply just leave the game.
Lets try to keep it on topic this time. This is not a discussion about: why public ns is better/worse than competitive ns, not a discussion on who is better at the game or who understands the game best.
This sums it up for me. I love this game, but it is increasingly hard to find a server to play on that is a good fit for me. Using the filters "NS, <150 ping, not full, has players , not passworded, and don't have bots" I get 3 servers and most of the time two of those are actually full except for the reserved slot.
They all are guaranteed to switch between the maps Tanith, Eclipse, and Veil exclusively and more than likely lack a competent commander on the server.
I don't feel like this game is broken at all, I feel like the servers are. Being split between different versions makes this even worse.
I'm sorry, but it is extremely frustrating that the majority of players won't touch any other maps besides those three. I groan every time a map vote comes up. Recently I got excited because the map changed to Lost for a round or two, then the server admin quickly fixed that.
I mean come on, there are what, 18 NS maps in the game and 3-5 get played regularly? Who wouldn't get bored? I haven't even had a chance to play on any of the new maps because no one will run them. Even if they aren't balanced lets mix it up a little people!
It's sad, but I find myself loading DOD more than NS now because I feel frustrated with the few servers that run 3.2B2 and starting my own server just isn't an option. Let's face it, another server wouldn't help anyway, it would just sit empty.
Again, the game isn't what feels broken.
1. For all of you who played 1.04, you can all agree with me that 1.04 was a lot more FUN than 3.2. The current release is just so F****** boring. Game Starts. A node or two goes down. A attempt to take down a hive. Hive goes down, or stays up. Fades annoy and die. Marines pressure and die. Game ends with a recycle or plain alien loss due to lack of nodes and higher lifeforms with 1 hive. It is the same stupid BS over and over again.
I mean at least in 1.04 there were 4 hour games where even if marines had jetpacks and level 3 hmgs, or the aliens had 3 hives the game was still going on. I don't remember that much repitition in 1.04 (besides the jetpack rush which was lame sometimes) at all. Over the years, NS has just gotten ishtier and ishtier. It all started with 2.0, and it went downhill from there. 3.0 beta 5 was pretty fun though because ramboing as a marine was pretty enjoyable.
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That's NS. In 1.04, you could paint a similar picture. Game Starts. A node or two goes down (or base gets rushed or hive gets shotty silent bhop rushed depending on the quality of the game). An attempt to take down the hive or just wait to tech to hmgs. Fades either +duck rampaged or instantly died (depending if there was one or two marines that knew where to aim on the fade). Marines pressure and die (or dominate if they knew the secret spots to shoot on the lifeforms). Game ends in a variety of different but equally stupid ways. a) 3 hives go down in 2 minutes to 3 ninja hmg jetpackers, b) aliens never go beyond 1 hive because marines dominate them, c) marines never leave their base because aliens dominate them (or one player has PSHB and owns everything in marine start), and so on. It really depends what server you play on. The more competent the players are, the worse the imbalances show - regardless the version. It has been mentioned before, the average player back in 1.04 was much worse than he is now.
What you get out of any game of NS is completely subjective. Ramboing is probably the only major noticeable "fun" aspect of the game that really got cut over the versions. That and randomly getting semi-invul mode due to a bug with HL's last server slot (remember all those times that you magically became godlike one day and were terrible as usual on others?). The rest of the misery is due to there being less servers and a decreased playerbase with an average skill level that is much higher (mostly due to there only really being hardcore regulars that actually play classic NS nowadays).
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. The community is crap. There is no decent server to play on. Tactical Gamer is full of morons now because of the second server opening up, and NS armslab isn't too far behind in that department. Every other server has 5 million level combat servers with BS_1 which basically scares any decent competitive player away.
Then theres the ###### like me that go into servers, and either rape everyone or die because our team blows. And you guys wonder why we cry for shotguns in pubs. Better off giving it to us, than some noob with a 1-24 score.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Classic servers are becoming extinct and combat is a pretty popular mode of mindless gameplay that anybody can get sucked into regardless of skill. Everyone can blow and they'd still have fun doing it, that's how it is for any popular game. Honestly, BS_1 shouldn't scare away decent players - only whiny ones that can't handle parting with their pistol, bhop, and teamchat scripts for an hour or so.
<!--quoteo(post=1604164:date=Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM:name=xtcmen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xtcmen @ Feb 6 2007, 01:48 AM) [snapback]1604164[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. For all of you who are looking forward to the next NS, and the only reason why you play this build is because your waiting for the next one go to your system 32 folder and hit these buttons in order: (ctrl + a), delete, enter. News flash, you are waiting for a new version of NS from the same people who couldn't rebuild the site and forums within a year after getting hacked. If it took a year to get the forums back, then by the time I im 30 (I'm 18) the new version of NS will be out
See most of you in 2 weeks.
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If you're playing this game for the purposes of passing time while waiting for the next release, you're trapped in a cycle that you're either unaware of or that makes you feel secure. Is NS a crutch to use in avoiding other experiences in life? What's the point? I'm not encouraging anyone to change, but more so pointing out that waiting isn't really a reason to keep playing. If you're playing the game, you are dedicating your time to the game. You don't have to play the game while waiting for the next release. There's obviously something else that makes you come back. Some people come back because they enjoy the game. Others because they don't enjoy it.
NS can be enjoyable depending on what you are expecting from it. If you're competitive, pub play is pretty much an eyesore right now, especially with the diminished server count. If you're not competitive, you can limbo in pub play reasonably easily. It is easier if you have someone to help you maintain the feeling that playing the game is worth something to you. Everyone has a reason for playing a game. NS is no different. As long as there are enough people to play the game, there is no reason for anyone to quit if they feel that the game is worth something to them.
There are actually 3 good reasons to quit:
1. If you're addicted to the game and there are negative impacts on your life
2. If the opportunity costs (i.e. things you could have done instead of playing the game) will make you regret having played it later down the line
3. If you're not getting any benefit out of playing or you're not aware of the benefits