Why do your friends not like NS1?
eoy
Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32860Members
Join Date: 2004-11-18 Member: 32860Members
I think most of us have been there. We're really excited about NS1 and just love the game and such, and then we convince a friend to try it out and he/she simply doesn't like it for various reasons. Pointing out the flaws your friends see could be a way to improve gameplay in the future ns2 and make it more attractive to new players?
So here we go, this is the negative feedback I've recieved so far from my friends:
- Aliens doesn't have a commander or anyone telling you what you should be doing
- Aliens are all about camping, which is kickable/bannable in other games (for example cs)
- I just played 20min as the ######ty skulk who dies all the time, only to try out the fade for 2minutes and then die and lose it
- Marines are overpowered
- I would like to try to command but everyone would just hate me if I did
- I don't really understand what's happening around me
I must admit that back in the days, it took me 3-4 installs & uninstalls before I actually started playing the game, because the learning curve is damn harsh, and everyone sort of expects you to know what to do.
So here we go, this is the negative feedback I've recieved so far from my friends:
- Aliens doesn't have a commander or anyone telling you what you should be doing
- Aliens are all about camping, which is kickable/bannable in other games (for example cs)
- I just played 20min as the ######ty skulk who dies all the time, only to try out the fade for 2minutes and then die and lose it
- Marines are overpowered
- I would like to try to command but everyone would just hate me if I did
- I don't really understand what's happening around me
I must admit that back in the days, it took me 3-4 installs & uninstalls before I actually started playing the game, because the learning curve is damn harsh, and everyone sort of expects you to know what to do.
Comments
Skulk times can be hard, but you need to find a good tactic to work and well that's why it's strategical and not just a shoot 'm up. Marines and aliens are both overpowered btw ;-)
"I just didn't like it."
"I kept getting ambushed - it was all luck!"
'The commander was stupid."
"My players were stupid, they never followed my orders."
"No one built our turrets."
"Those little skinned-dog-things don't take damage from the starter gun!"
"Fades suck, they die too easy."
To Flayra, or Max, or whichever dev is reading this - this thread is a result of the same root problem - the game is not intuitive to play. All of these excuses for "I suck" can be traced back to that element.
- Marines rely on commander for weapons. Even shotguns. Majority of the game you can never get an upgrade.
- Skulks are a hard first lifeform to learn. They require the most agility and control.
- Understanding strategy requires putting time in. Selling point of strategy got me hooked, but it doesn't work for others.
- Where's the flame thrower, rocket launcher, need more aliens. More diversity.
- The game is 4 years old and graphics suck compared to e.g. tf2, bioshock, other new games.
Hopefully NS2 will come through with that. Explaining all the different elements of classic NS mode is almost impossible to a new player, they have to experience a few games. Problem is, the game has such a steep learning curve that they stop playing after 2 or 3 games.
No really though, the ones I dragged into this (part of the problem, they didn't go in excited about it like I was):
It was confusing as heck. Something's under attack, okay, where? And how do I get there? Oh crap, I took a wrong turn. This was a biggy.
How the hell did that thing move so fast? Where the **** did that come from? Oh crap, now I have to find my way back to where I was.
Screw this.
I think the only solution to that, for someone dropped straight into the game, is to have dynamically generated waypoints. Follow the rabbit style.
Simple example:
Comm drops a waypoint in T-junc of eclipse. I'm in ms. The waypoint that appears on my screen is at the doors, but as I move through the doors, the waypoint moves out into the hallway. As I go around the corner, the way point (following a preset path likely) moves down the hallway as far as I can see. I keep following that waypoint as it goes around the corner down into horseshoe, and finally follow it down to where it stops in t-junc.
On one hand, this might be hell to implement. On the other hand, using preset paths (much like bot waypoints) could it be that terribly difficult? All the sprite would have to do is move around relative to do that path, and the final waypoint being the commanders waypoint. This way, the new player has something to follow. Hell, everyone has something to follow. And they aren't walking around with their head in a map. Maybe have the route highlighted for the comm so he can optimize if some bug results in the route going the long way (and avoid "omg nubs don't go that way").
Maybe have the same thing happen when a hive is under attack (or structure or teammate, you just move toward the icon that you need to save.)
If wanted to get really fancy, have the icon indicate distance (I think the waypoints do this now?)
Crap, this idea is so good I'm gonna put it in the suggestions forum.
-"Too intense"
-"Reflexes suck" (Mainly counter-strike idiots who take 10 seconds to aim)
"Where do I go" (because the maps are very very large and weavy),
"What do I do" (for there is nothing to do if the commander doesn't do anything),
"Why am I here" (b/c who knows? If you're lost, who knows?),
"How do i get ammo? Do I have ammo? Can I get a better gun?" (b/c who knows these things when they first start?),
"How many bullets does it take to kill the lifeforms w/ which weapons? (b/c who can actually count the number of bullets that you hit a skulk w/ when you first start playing)
"These aliens can't die" (b/c the player sux and there's nothing he can do about it)
" " Marines " " " (vice versa...they can't bite or swipe or bunnyhop or ambush nor can they actually figure out where to go)
"No headshots?" ( ... )
"How do I get big like that dude?" (after I've told them to build an rt)
"How did I die so fast" (after they've suicidally flown into a shotgun after going rt-lerk)
"This is not fun" (after dying twelve times w/ one kill due to their poor map awareness, newbie skill, and lack of ambush technique.
Essentially for combat, it comes down to really powerful weapons against powerful aliens. The thing is, is that if you're not aware of what to do w/ these weapons or lifeforms...you're really really really #$%#'d.
For classic,
multiply it by the lack of being able to buy your own guns (0 control over destiny)
X maps that are 5 times larger
X concepts that are approximately 5 times more complex [and much more if you get into leagues]
X players that are generally more skilled than in co
X lack to indirect information [CS has radar, DoD has your flags-the other team's flags-blinking flags if they're being taken]
and you get a uber angry noobie, unless the noobie can look past his temporary frustration and see the depth of the game and the potential for fun in it w/ things that fly around and uber powerful guns.
But, to a certain extent--yes it's very true. Perhaps a intuitive 'help' system can try to guide players to important 'spots' on the map right from the start and explain through a simple commentary what to basically do when they get to different sort of 'places' on the map.
If each map maker made a little commentary for each room, then that'd be pretty sweet :x.
But, to a certain extent--yes it's very true. Perhaps a intuitive 'help' system can try to guide players to important 'spots' on the map right from the start and explain through a simple commentary what to basically do when they get to different sort of 'places' on the map.
If each map maker made a little commentary for each room, then that'd be pretty sweet :x.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In one of the later podcasts, I believe there was some talking about ingame "wiki" where the community could add important information about different mappoints, for example "this is a good siege spot because blablabla".
I really liked the idea with automated waypoints, I think what kept me playing in the beginning was the few games where I had a commander who actually kept refreshing waypoints for me so I always had an idea of where I was to be going, even though I mostly ran around the map and built RT's.
Even a CS-Only buddy who watched me play on my projector for an hour while another buddy gave him a running commentary. He spent the entire time with his eyes WIDE open and jaw almost slack; it was a really, really great round on Tanith, and then Metal. You know how they can be. And imagine that on 110 inches...
By the end of it, he simply said 'I had no idea games like this actually existed!'
But the complaints have merit. The game has a steep learning curve.
But it <i>can be overcome</i>, and personally I believe the best method is video tutorials. Perhaps a requirement before you can Marine, Skulk, Gorge, Lerk, Fade, Onos, or Comm for the first time. Some would obviously be shorter and some longer; but you could cover all the basics in a reasonable amount of time, and with fantastic presentation. See the Godfather game on Xbox for a perfect example.
And if you want to get even crazier, implement an interactive user-interface for it all. It would be so, so awesome if you [ripped off StarShip Trooper's "Would you like to know more?"].
How to actually go about designing said videos? Sure, its easy to toss this idea out there, but to actually create something worthy of a retail game is far different.
-Well, start with a competition. Let all competitors take one of the topics (so any role in NS, basically 2 for marines and 5 for aliens), and make a short video for it. Perhaps give a rough estimation of the video length for each role as a guideline, and any tips or needed sequences.
-PLENTY would attempt, and you could even advertise it around with the fancy new E-Team.
-Then, sign up whoever you find is the cream of the crop.
Give them a small budget (or dont, it would still be done), and a few weeks/months notice before the game is shipped, and voila.
Pull that off, and NS2 could triple its lasting playerbase.
-> goes to write a script.
Nice to see all the ideas that evolve from such a negative topic <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
"where do i start"
"im lost"
"theres loads of flying black things that kill me before I can aim at them"
I think players have to be motivated to investigate and discover and learn the game <b>by their own initiative</b>, not by the ushering of someone else. When they're told to play it but their initial interest level in the game is low, they get quickly discouraged and bored and annoyed by the complexity of a game they weren't interested in in the first place.
I've lured maybe 3 friends, failed at maybe 10. I'd say I learned a little about human nature in the process, and in the future I'm not going to exert any more effort than a simple recommendation, because after that, It's out of my (and any other recommender's) hands.
then you can spend 10 minutes makeing a new account or go hide on your main acount you troll these boards with.
-they don't know where to go or what to do, when and how. (i usually just tell them to follow a team member and double their actions)
-they aren't a team player and can't "pwn" people by themselves, cause they are used to that in a game like quake 3
-lack of weapons - some people like to have an arsenal of 500 machine guns all roughly the same except in looks. (i'd suggest making many skins or variations of the same or gun) people like to be able to customize their characters and abilities
-people yell at them when they do the wrong thing (this is your own fault hateful clan ns players, i'm blaming you lol)
I had a friend ages that was into quake 3 and tribes etc those fast games, playing as a marine he was like, this game is waaaay too slow, i can't even run fast enough or jump around like in quake. Then a fade blinked past and killed him, and he's like, this game is waaay too fast, how am i meant to kill that thing..... i sighed. He's the kind of player that will play WoW or diablo and just run through it grab as many kills and gold as possible - not a team player so
its just not for some people and thats the way its going to be, and i'd hate for it to change just to accomodate the fence sitters.
-> goes to write a script.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why stop at 2d, lets get a Machinema team going already! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> (you could do it with all alpha/beta stuff)
The script is just a comedy version of a typical round - players watch and laugh, but then when the game comes out and people go wow lets do what that funny guy did ! They won't even realize they are playing the game how its meant to be played.... suckers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
O man, he's challenging your 100% correct beliefs by disagreeing with you about this game, he needs to be banned 100%.
You got the hang of internet forums I see.
by being able to see how other players play the game would help in the learning curve
i say there should be short videos showing how to be a fade, lerk, marine...
ive seen too many walker fades/lerks, that dont know how to blink/fly properly
then you can spend 10 minutes makeing a new account or go hide on your main acount you troll these boards with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
my friends don't play this game because it's dead. is that not a valid reason?
and no, my last thirty posts havn't been about the death of this game.
<!--quoteo(post=1657827:date=Oct 25 2007, 10:59 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(schkorpio @ Oct 25 2007, 10:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657827"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-people yell at them when they do the wrong thing (this is your own fault hateful clan ns players, i'm blaming you lol)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i find it <i>amazing</i> that people <i>still</i> believe in this misconception. clanners almost never talk in game. the newbie bashing is usually done by the server regs and admins.
I've found it to be quite the opposite, at least back when there were a decent amount of players. These days I don't see any new players so it's a bit of a moot point.
Back when there were newbies most of the Regs and admins would help the new players since they had an attachment to the server and wanted it to thrive whereas clanners passing through would either say nothing(as you suggest) or taunt players.
The majority of players I have met have been fine. It only takes a few bad apples to set people's impressions of a group negatively.
It is certainly incorrect to say all or most or even many clan players have poor attitudes.
then you can spend 10 minutes makeing a new account or go hide on your main acount you troll these boards with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
can you get rid of Milo while you're at it?