<!--quoteo(post=1664442:date=Dec 17 2007, 08:21 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FocusedWolf @ Dec 17 2007, 08:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ns1 sux. Honestly if i had a better computer i'd never play it for the following reasons:
1. its to hard to kill good aliens... example... fades that get 150+ kills without dieing once... and thats no exaggeration... it happens many times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have played recently, you will notice they have changed (nerfed) fade blink, so solo-fades-of-doom arn't around that much.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. it takes an entire team of good marines to kill 1 good alien...<---maybe that'll work... There's something extremely odd about that, or have you people been playing ns for long that you just got used to it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must be playing on some weird servers. Everyone else is complaining about marines soloing onis, not the other way around.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ex. if it takes 20 people that know how to aim to kill a fade, what happens when the marines have to do other things like conquer territory, get rts, weld, attack hives, attack OTHER aliens... it just gets redicilious and totally unbalanced...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it doesn't so that's a pretty weak argument. It has been working ever since 2.0 at least.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Good marines have very little affect on the outcome of the game... basically its up to the commander to know when to spend res... but for aliens, a very good alien totally can screw the marines chances at winning... why should one player be able to screw the entire marine team? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander can screw over marines, true. However, marines who can use their given weapons (mostly SGs early) can prevent Kharaa from getting any kills or rts up, thus breaking their chance of victory. Same goes the other way, players who get weapons from a good comm might just as well run around and miss, thus loosing res for their comm and decreasing chance of victory. A bad gorge can just as well screw over the Kharaa as the commander, building x chamber, not saving for hive, not building RT etc.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. the guns are complete crap! i'd rather have ANY WW2 gun... atleast then, all i'd need is 1-3 shots to kill something... as opposed to the TSA and their PLASTIC BULLETS LMG/HMG! AHHH!.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. The Kharaa are very tough creatures with incredibly hardened armor and skin, it got nothing to do with bad weapons. Or from gameplay view, would anyone play alien if they died from 1-3 shots? I think not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. It takes to long to load a gl... it also shouldn require me to load the whole drum... what if i only have time to load 1...shoot 1...? Overall the entire gameplay of NS is flawed and weak... a much better approach would be... fast play... someting between what ns and co is now, but with the ns conquest-type gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked you didn't need to reload all 4 shots, may have been changed though so don't quote me on that. Some aspects may be "flawed", but it's mostly new players who don't know how it exactly works, so it's perceived as "flawed".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd want 1 marine to be able to kill 1 fade... and serioussly hurt any aliens behind because i'd be using armor piercing ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't think they are using AP rounds already? The problem is that AP rounds are only developed to counter known materials, not freakin space alien carapace. So, you think a 0 res spent marine should be able to kill a 50 res fade? That doesn't sound crazy at all! And still, you can kill a fade alone, if you have a SG, if you can aim godlike with LMG or if the fade doesn't blink around.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just the same i'd want aliens to respawn fast in any lifeform they wanted... and just the same i dont want marines to have to resarch pgs and mt and AA's... i want the com to just drop gun racks of guns anywhere in the map...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
8 onoses = GAME OVER, no matter what the marines get. They might kill them with jetpacks but their CC and base would be gone anyway. It would also loose everything NS is, 2 teams battling over resources to out-tech each other.
<!--quoteo(post=1664442:date=Dec 17 2007, 02:21 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FocusedWolf @ Dec 17 2007, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664442"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1. its to hard to kill good aliens... example... fades that get 150+ kills without dieing once... and thats no exaggeration... it happens many times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> In combat?
I'm pretty sure you're talking about the best NS players which have stayed with this game. Their skill contrasts with the people around them because frankly, those people will never get better at the game if they are comfortable playing it at the level the can.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. it takes an entire team of good marines to kill 1 good alien...<---maybe that'll work... There's something extremely odd about that, or have you people been playing ns for long that you just got used to it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That alien BECOMES the alien team at 50 res, and thats a huge exageration. It only takes 2 marines who know what they are doing to kill any fade. As soon as the fade dies, the aliens lose their only true offensive unit and the game becomes an alien stall for another fade.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ex. if it takes 20 people that know how to aim to kill a fade, what happens when the marines have to do other things like conquer territory, get rts, weld, attack hives, attack OTHER aliens... it just gets redicilious and totally unbalanced...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, the fade has to stop the marines from doing their thing, not the other way around. 2 good marines with shotguns won't be challenged by a single fade alone.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Good marines have very little affect on the outcome of the game... basically its up to the commander to know when to spend res... but for aliens, a very good alien totally can screw the marines chances at winning... why should one player be able to screw the entire marine team? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Its 98% marines, 2% commander when the commander is actually playing the way he is supposed to. And I'm not talking about 30 man servers because that's when aliens get their HUGE res disadvantage which comes in the form of late, powerless fades. The only way the marines can lose a 30 man game is if their commander is terrible or when there is a really significant skill gap pivoted toward the aliens.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. the guns are complete crap! i'd rather have ANY WW2 gun... atleast then, all i'd need is 1-3 shots to kill something... as opposed to the TSA and their PLASTIC BULLETS LMG/HMG! AHHH!.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you assuming that the aliens have the same physiology as we do?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. It takes to long to load a gl... it also shouldn require me to load the whole drum... what if i only have time to load 1...shoot 1...?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The GL is generally bugged, I won't even get into it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overall the entire gameplay of NS is flawed and weak... a much better approach would be... fast play... someting between what ns and co is now, but with the ns conquest-type gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, NS needs to be faster. If NS was faster, there'd be no spawn camping.
QUOTE 4. the guns are complete crap! i'd rather have ANY WW2 gun... atleast then, all i'd need is 1-3 shots to kill something... as opposed to the TSA and their PLASTIC BULLETS LMG/HMG! AHHH!.
<!--quoteo(post=1664494:date=Dec 17 2007, 06:20 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you assuming that the aliens have the same physiology as we do?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You got a point.
In the aliens movies, the marines had weapons for close quarters fighting... even though supposedly the marines arsenal also included various laser guns etc... it's in the comic books somewhere lol...
Anyhoot... they brought guns for the situation which was fighting in small rooms without the risk of tearing up the entire place... i.e. they had no rocket launcher, but they did have grenades and flamethrowers?... probably cause of how non flammable and cold metallic/plastic the future is lol.
Also i remember something about how a beretta is more deadly in close range then 5.56mm... basically assuming a fleshy unarmored target, shooting a projectile with more mass at close range means more gushy splashy time for the bullet...more kinetic energy, more mass in the bullet, and the bullet is probably a hollow point so it'll expand and make a bigget hole,,,etc etc... whereas the rifle round will most likely not even tumble through the target at that range... making a considerable smaller hole... blah blah blah...that's what full auto is for...etc etc...
so ya... the enemy are very hard to kill... look at the gorge... that thing is a bullet sponge... why i bet i could have 400 armor if i could tie gorge flesh to my helmet lol.
So... Ns 2... after 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 marines have died..... i think the generals that think about how to win this war wonder if the marines need a better array of weaponry better suited for this odd enemy that can slice through plastic body armor like its knowones buisness... perhaps weapons which have fewer rounds in the magazine so as to hold much bigger harder bullets is whats called for... something that can pass through dense muscles and bones... and then explode within the target blowing chunks off fades and rupturing oni in seconds... ya... something like that for a standard weapon and we just might be onto something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
O yay we dont need shotguns anymore if we get that... because in essence... a shottie is shooting alot in a short period of time of a few trigger squeezes... so we can get the same effect if our guns have a very high rate 5 round burst... something even faster then full auto... so ya shotties are not needed... just flip that selecter switch to shottie mode and your rifle will do the same job, and in style. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
I saw on the history channel some gun that when you squeeze the trigger, the gun fires off 2 rounds at insane high rate of fire... and if your still holding down the trigger, the gun goes into a slower rate of fire to conserver ammo... pretty cool idea... also heard that the steyr aug fires in either semi auto, or full auto depending on how hard you squeeze the trigger <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Anyway if anything we need a burst rate of fire on our guns... it just makes sense... that is if their more powerful lol... otherwise... ya spray away... or better yet... dont shoot, it'll only attract them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
the only reason i dont like ns1 is well i do like it but its the people that ruin the game with auto aim bot and all that stupid azz crap hacks....server admins dont specate there servers no more to get rid of people like that....im even thinking of making my own server making it hacking free but..i dont have no more then 1 computer and its not enough juice to run a server to be enable to play games at same time.
- "Tech tree? That's taking you 40 hours to learn, right? - "I can't hit anything! (Marine) - "I still can't hit anything! (Skulk) - "I get lost... - "I have no clue what to do.
It took me over two years to develop half decent aiming skills against a small target as the skulk. My friends are rather good at aiming and enjoy shooters like HL1/2 deathmatch or Quake. In their opinion, the LMG is just too inaccurate to be handled efficiently. (And I agree, that's why you need shotguns asap, lol.)
<!--quoteo(post=1664559:date=Dec 18 2007, 10:29 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FocusedWolf @ Dec 18 2007, 10:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664559"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also i remember something about how a beretta is more deadly in close range then 5.56mm...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A) Which Beretta? B) LOL! Stop talking about guns, now.
<!--quoteo(post=1664573:date=Dec 19 2007, 01:38 AM:name=Triple)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Triple @ Dec 19 2007, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only reason i dont like ns1 is well i do like it but its the people that ruin the game with auto aim bot and all that stupid azz crap hacks....server admins dont specate there servers no more to get rid of people like that...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
<!--quoteo(post=1664584:date=Dec 19 2007, 06:04 AM:name=Nilles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nilles @ Dec 19 2007, 06:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664584"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It took me over two years to develop half decent aiming skills against a small target as the skulk. My friends are rather good at aiming and enjoy shooters like HL1/2 deathmatch or Quake. In their opinion, the LMG is just too inaccurate to be handled efficiently. (And I agree, that's why you need shotguns asap, lol.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Took me about a year, see above quote.
The inaccuracy of the LMG actually helps with hitting the aliens, imo. Given their speeds its basically impossible to track perfectly, so the cone + high rate of fire will give you higher hits if you're aiming 'close enough'. When you're against decent aliens, thats more than you can ask for.
<!--quoteo(post=1664418:date=Dec 17 2007, 11:27 AM:name=Dark_Soul)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Dark_Soul @ Dec 17 2007, 11:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you don't understand the game, you can read some info first, read the help guidelines on screen or simply join a server with only a few players, or start a langame with friends<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wouldn't you see that as a problem? Personaly I have never ever read any gamemanuals, and never really intend to. I want to play a game and not read text, and I don't think I'm the onlyone. Does NS being so complicated, that only players who are really interested and bother investigating and reading for several hours, make it a game suitable for a large audience, or just for the hardcore ns fans? I would imagine the developers are aiming to create a game that reaches many players, rather than a game tailormade for their previous fanbase.
Do a portal style intro with a 20 min run for rine going thru weapons and skills and the flow on effect finish with HA or jetpacked rine newbie getting eaten by an onos and then have a 20 min portal stlye run thru aliens , skills , effects and different aliens from skulk to onos and their skills ending with them running into a marine ambush . Do these on 2-4 vanilla maps that can be cut up for future multiplayer use.
NS 1 is basically a game for nerds... let's put it this way... no game company would produce a game like NS if they were charged with the task of making a game about marines fighting aliens....
Why you ask? Because FIGHTING ALIENS IMPLIES KILLING ALIENS.... not some ridiciouls, "lets ninja up a pg and siege them,...or loose...or endless relocate...or dc bunkers...or oc farms..." type game.... i mean serioussly... NS REALLY IS A HALFLIFE MOD... i.e. not a real dedicated game... just some psuedo game ripoff of starcraft...just as counterstrike was a psuedo game ripoff of the rainbow six series, as the creater of that mod admitted <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Ways to fix NS:
1. look closely at AVP and AVP2 games...
Notice how people play as xenomorph even though a pulse rifle can rip one in half with 10 shots or less with just chest hits... and like 1-2 if you hit them in the head... MAKE FADES LIKE THAT.
Notice how people still decide to play as aliens in AVP2! Why? Because with proper stealth and strategy they have a chance of winning if they stay in the shadows...AND THATS MORE FUN THEN RT BUILDING AND HIVE PROTECTING>>>>ZZZZZ...
Even though MARINES COME WITH NIGHTVISION GOGGLES AND FLASHLIGHTS AND SMARTGUNS THAT ARE ALMOST 100% aimbots built into the game! OOOooOOOohhh how nice is that xD
And lets not forget the AVP2 equiviliant of the Heavy Armor... you know what i mean... that beast with one arm with rocket launcher and flamethower, and the other arm with laser and minigun!!!!!
And yet, people still play as aliens... What i'm trying to say here is who cares if we piss off the 200 or so people what still play NS 1, and the about 70 or so that only stack aliens.... And instead lets make a new game thats actually fun... actually about marines fightin galiens... and lets attract a new community of 1000's of players and the NS 1 loyalists still have NS 1.... which is where all the good maps are anyway... NS2 is strictly like deleting everysingle custom mod and map of NS 1 and knowone plays on such vanilla servers...and some players can't live without xmenu...and wtf 2 points to buy 1 level of depleated uranium.... so lets try to make NS 2 fun out the box for once...
I mean theirs something to be said about how 90% of NS 1 servers are combat only... i suggest NS2 be a mix between NS 1's CO and NS gameplay... i want a commander to dictate WAR... not "build that rt then phase back to base and weld that AA".
Dare i say it... i want VEHICLES IN NS2 so we can race down the halls in warthogs blasting everything with mk19's (<- real life full auto grenade launcher <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher</a>).... because that pants-crapping fun lol... ya the devs need to learn about what fun is all about <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
O ya while your at it... add this GL to NS 2... and NS 1, cause if NS 2 is just a rerun of ns 1 then i could care less about buying it...
Your right, strategy doesnt belong in a game like NS! Remove building! Who wants to sit there and hold E anyway... Also marines should get a rocket launcher and be able to double jump. I mean come on, these devs dont know how to make a game. They only made some dumb mod 5 years ago that is still the most popular 3rd party mod on steam above any source or HL1 mod. And originality? Nope, starcraft had a secret fps mode that cheats would allow you to play. Screw the fans! look how successful EA is and they NEVER talk to fans!
I've also come across this problem. I introduce the game to them, they play it for like 20 minutes and then get bored and remove it. I guess they just don't want to get into the complexities of the game... or they're just too dumb Lol
<!--quoteo(post=1664822:date=Dec 21 2007, 02:56 PM:name=BCSeph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BCSeph @ Dec 21 2007, 02:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664822"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Your right, strategy doesnt belong in a game like NS! Remove building! Who wants to sit there and hold E anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The funny thing is, this is true. Capping RTs makes NS boring.
i wounder whether ns or avp 2 has the larger online community to date. Considering focused wolfs opinion of avp2 you would imagine thats its online community is much larger....
both games are of a similar age. ns is a mod and avp2 is a full developed game so u would think it would be far more popular but last time i player avp2 online it was pretty dead.
I have always heard the same reason. Online, people I have shown the game to, everyone says the same thing: "That ###### is old, looks like Quake." I imagine NS2 will suffer for the same reason. I will still try it out because I played the first game, but yeah...
So many new gaming engines, free to modify just like the HalfLife 1 engine was at that time. Even the Unreal 3 engine is very high end and scalable to a broad selection of systems. So unless the one they are using is powerful, I don't imagine the view of this mod will change at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1657591:date=Oct 24 2007, 07:35 PM:name=BigD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BigD @ Oct 24 2007, 07:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1657591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the only solution to that, for someone dropped straight into the game, is to have dynamically generated waypoints. Follow the rabbit style.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I saw this and went OH MY GOD, that would help a ton with the size of typical NS classic maps. It would be really nice if not only the comm waypoints showed up but if there was a way to set personal waypoints for yourself so if you want to drop the hive in x location and you dont know where that is you can just set a waypoint and go. To make it really cool it could find the shortest path based on the abilities of your lifeform, e.g. skulks can climb walls so they can go thru vents etc. Gorges can't so they would get a different path then a skulk. For any tricky stuff KISS (keep it simple stupid) assume the player can't do anything tricky (fade thru small vent or long blink that requires careful tapping, etc.)
<!--quoteo(post=1665134:date=Dec 25 2007, 04:32 PM:name=taintedbeef)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(taintedbeef @ Dec 25 2007, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I saw this and went OH MY GOD, that would help a ton with the size of typical NS classic maps. It would be really nice if not only the comm waypoints showed up but if there was a way to set personal waypoints for yourself so if you want to drop the hive in x location and you dont know where that is you can just set a waypoint and go. To make it really cool it could find the shortest path based on the abilities of your lifeform, e.g. skulks can climb walls so they can go thru vents etc. Gorges can't so they would get a different path then a skulk. For any tricky stuff KISS (keep it simple stupid) assume the player can't do anything tricky (fade thru small vent or long blink that requires careful tapping, etc.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dynamic waypoints sounds pretty hard to implement... at the very least, give the marine commander the ability to give like er.. dot-to-dot style waypoints (hold a key, click, click, click). 1->2->3->...->destination. helps the newbies (so long as you have a patient and kind enough commander). include the ranking/medal system and a smart commander will only do the step-by-step waypoints for the newbie players. but that doesn't help the aliens :/ still.. i'm not sure why aliens might need it wait.. yeah.. if you can give -every- player the ability to lay down personal (step-by-step) waypoints on their maxi-map, that'd help the aliens who need to find their way to certain locations ( - i can't remember, been a while since i played, did the aliens even have a maxi- or mini-map?) plus you can shade parts of the map to cover areas of alien influence - or rather, dynamic infestation
hmmm, but yeah, personal and dot-to-dot waypoints sound like good ideas to me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
edit: i forgot, but waypoints should automatically expire when you come to them, or after a certain period of time, so the marine's screen doesn't get cluttered. it'd also be nice to have the ability (for personal waypoints) to recall (and reverse) the last few waypoints used. so a newbie could plot his way to a location, recall, reverse, and find his way back. i doubt the feature would be used that much though.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited January 2008
<!--quoteo(post=1664747:date=Dec 20 2007, 08:34 PM:name=frantic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(frantic @ Dec 20 2007, 08:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664747"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do a portal style intro with a 20 min run for rine going thru weapons and skills and the flow on effect finish with HA or jetpacked rine newbie getting eaten by an onos and then have a 20 min portal stlye run thru aliens , skills , effects and different aliens from skulk to onos and their skills ending with them running into a marine ambush . Do these on 2-4 vanilla maps that can be cut up for future multiplayer use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I generally hate "training maps", at least the ones where they slowly spoon feed me "wasd", then "jump" and finally the advanced "crouch jump". <!--quoteo(post=1664799:date=Dec 21 2007, 11:29 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FocusedWolf @ Dec 21 2007, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS 1 is basically a game for nerds... let's put it this way... no game company would produce a game like NS if they were charged with the task of making a game about marines fighting aliens....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is the only part of your post I agree with and it's one of the reasons I like NS2. It's has different elements than most FPS out there. Edit: I didn't read Harimau's post. I agree with him.
<!--quoteo(post=1665995:date=Jan 2 2008, 11:08 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 2 2008, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I generally hate "training maps", at least the ones where they slowly spoon feed me "wasd", then "jump" and finally the advanced "crouch jump".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed.
<!--quoteo(post=1665995:date=Jan 2 2008, 11:08 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 2 2008, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe, but a simpler solution would be to allow comms to give multiple chained waypoints to marines. Let the human intelligence do the thinking and avoid that messy AI stuff while providing dynamic waypoints.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah... that's what I just said..
Why my friends don't like NS1: because it's as old as dirt. Why my friends probably won't like NS2, just like they turned their heads away from NS1: because it's probably also going to be using a game engine that's old as dirt. *shrug* Doesn't really get more complicated then that.
<!--quoteo(post=1666077:date=Jan 2 2008, 06:06 PM:name=corpsman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(corpsman @ Jan 2 2008, 06:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why my friends don't like NS1: because it's as old as dirt. Why my friends probably won't like NS2, just like they turned their heads away from NS1: because it's probably also going to be using a game engine that's old as dirt. *shrug* Doesn't really get more complicated then that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a bit much t expect new to NS players to like NS1 as the engine is showing its age, but to claim that NS2 is also too old on Source is incorrect. The Source engine is still getting improved, TF 2 + HL 2 ep 2 use an updated Source engine. Look at Left4Dead, its an intriguing game that look good... on Source.
Using the UT 3 or Crytek engines is not an automatic win either, you still need a solid game design, which NS has already...its just a bit complicated for the average console user, requires a little learning on the players part.
TBH I am sick of the basic point and shoot FPS stuff thats being churned out, I yearn for a Deus Ex 1, System Shock 1 + 2 ...or the same complexity of NS1.
I guess you have to make the game idiot prof. Because like i have been to meany lan parties and like people are allways like "HOW DO YOU BUILD!?!?!" Its like omfg press "E" moron. Then like they have no idea what any of the buildings do so there all like. I think there should be like a help when you first install. And like it should be were you look at a building and above your cross hairs it should say what building it is and in the bottom right hand cornor of you screen a discription of what it does... i just think people dont play this game because they dont want to take a great deal of time to learn it, so they dislike it :S... aslo alot of people dont like to command i see how and why the console in the command view needs to be set up diffrently were its not as confusing in my case it isnt because i play alot of starcraft and i can kinda relate with it... but it does need some work and i hope they work on it and try diffrent views with it.
There's a universal rule to video games, and that is IF YOU SUCK YOU WILL HATE THE GAME... end of story; this is true with all games. Now NS has the worse side of this fact because there's no tutorial to teach you how to play the game. So you start playing and you keep getting your ass kicked without even knowing how or what the hell happened to you. Repeat this process over and over again and you will end up by uninstalling the game and hating it... not to mention that you weren't expecting much in the first place since it's a mod.
Compared to other shooters, NS is extremely complicated because it has a unique concept (fps/rts) and an alien race that works in a way you've never seen before.
There's a simple solution to all of this, you absolutely need a good TUTORIAL.
for me personally i'm a fast learner, it took me a single game to learn everything that i needed to know about the game, however some people can't learn as fast as others; the term would be "spoon fed". And that's what the tutorial would do, it would take them by the hand and walk them through the game step by step explaining everything on the way.
I still think that, on top of video tutorials, NS2 could really use an integrated Helper icon. Much like the Constie Icons, the designated Helpers would be willing to commit a lot of their game time to answering questions and helping out new players.
You'd need to screen people of course, and also create a cvar to turn off the icon should they want to simply play.
Even better would be if there was a command to enter into two-way voicechat; your usual mic button would then only send to one other person, and vice versa. That way, a new player could get into a private chat with a Helper and get a lot of info without disturbing the rest of the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1667126:date=Jan 11 2008, 03:56 PM:name=project_demon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(project_demon @ Jan 11 2008, 03:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667126"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a simple solution to all of this, you absolutely need a good TUTORIAL.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I suppose you could be right about the Source engine. I guess it depends no what they do with it, but everyone I nkow who watched me play NS1 was totally turned off by the engines age. ###### is Old as hell! hehe
I have to agree with the tutorial part also. Even after playing NS1 for a while, I was still finding out stuff that I never knew, but watched someone else do. The only reason I even gave it a look was because I read about it through Penny-Arcade. They did a comic about the mod as a "this is how mods should be done" and I agree.
It was extremely fun to play once you knew how, but it just got old. Still, any mod that out does full retail games to me is a real winner!
<!--quoteo(post=1667138:date=Jan 12 2008, 02:12 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jan 12 2008, 02:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1667138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still think that, on top of video tutorials, NS2 could really use an integrated Helper icon. Much like the Constie Icons, the designated Helpers would be willing to commit a lot of their game time to answering questions and helping out new players.
You'd need to screen people of course, and also create a cvar to turn off the icon should they want to simply play.
Even better would be if there was a command to enter into two-way voicechat; your usual mic button would then only send to one other person, and vice versa. That way, a new player could get into a private chat with a Helper and get a lot of info without disturbing the rest of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This used to exist, they were called Guides. Used to have a purple gorge icon, it was a good program.
I'm pretty sure i was around during both the creation and destruction of the Guides. I think the system was just in general poorly designed and maintained. It seems like there was no explanation to newbies of who/what the guides were, which kinda defeated the purpose. And then, i think i only ever saw one guide, once. Maybe they didnt actively recruit enough people over its lifespan?
Yeah well mates i've introduced this game haven't been satisfied with graphics and complexity.. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> btw good topic eoy!
Comments
1. its to hard to kill good aliens... example... fades that get 150+ kills without dieing once... and thats no exaggeration... it happens many times.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you have played recently, you will notice they have changed (nerfed) fade blink, so solo-fades-of-doom arn't around that much.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. it takes an entire team of good marines to kill 1 good alien...<---maybe that'll work... There's something extremely odd about that, or have you people been playing ns for long that you just got used to it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must be playing on some weird servers. Everyone else is complaining about marines soloing onis, not the other way around.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ex. if it takes 20 people that know how to aim to kill a fade, what happens when the marines have to do other things like conquer territory, get rts, weld, attack hives, attack OTHER aliens... it just gets redicilious and totally unbalanced...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well it doesn't so that's a pretty weak argument. It has been working ever since 2.0 at least.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Good marines have very little affect on the outcome of the game... basically its up to the commander to know when to spend res... but for aliens, a very good alien totally can screw the marines chances at winning... why should one player be able to screw the entire marine team? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The commander can screw over marines, true. However, marines who can use their given weapons (mostly SGs early) can prevent Kharaa from getting any kills or rts up, thus breaking their chance of victory. Same goes the other way, players who get weapons from a good comm might just as well run around and miss, thus loosing res for their comm and decreasing chance of victory. A bad gorge can just as well screw over the Kharaa as the commander, building x chamber, not saving for hive, not building RT etc.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. the guns are complete crap! i'd rather have ANY WW2 gun... atleast then, all i'd need is 1-3 shots to kill something... as opposed to the TSA and their PLASTIC BULLETS LMG/HMG! AHHH!.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No. The Kharaa are very tough creatures with incredibly hardened armor and skin, it got nothing to do with bad weapons. Or from gameplay view, would anyone play alien if they died from 1-3 shots? I think not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. It takes to long to load a gl... it also shouldn require me to load the whole drum... what if i only have time to load 1...shoot 1...?
Overall the entire gameplay of NS is flawed and weak... a much better approach would be... fast play... someting between what ns and co is now, but with the ns conquest-type gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Last time I checked you didn't need to reload all 4 shots, may have been changed though so don't quote me on that.
Some aspects may be "flawed", but it's mostly new players who don't know how it exactly works, so it's perceived as "flawed".
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd want 1 marine to be able to kill 1 fade... and serioussly hurt any aliens behind because i'd be using armor piercing ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't think they are using AP rounds already? The problem is that AP rounds are only developed to counter known materials, not freakin space alien carapace. So, you think a 0 res spent marine should be able to kill a 50 res fade? That doesn't sound crazy at all! And still, you can kill a fade alone, if you have a SG, if you can aim godlike with LMG or if the fade doesn't blink around.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just the same i'd want aliens to respawn fast in any lifeform they wanted... and just the same i dont want marines to have to resarch pgs and mt and AA's... i want the com to just drop gun racks of guns anywhere in the map...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
8 onoses = GAME OVER, no matter what the marines get. They might kill them with jetpacks but their CC and base would be gone anyway. It would also loose everything NS is, 2 teams battling over resources to out-tech each other.
In combat?
I'm pretty sure you're talking about the best NS players which have stayed with this game. Their skill contrasts with the people around them because frankly, those people will never get better at the game if they are comfortable playing it at the level the can.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2. it takes an entire team of good marines to kill 1 good alien...<---maybe that'll work... There's something extremely odd about that, or have you people been playing ns for long that you just got used to it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That alien BECOMES the alien team at 50 res, and thats a huge exageration. It only takes 2 marines who know what they are doing to kill any fade. As soon as the fade dies, the aliens lose their only true offensive unit and the game becomes an alien stall for another fade.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ex. if it takes 20 people that know how to aim to kill a fade, what happens when the marines have to do other things like conquer territory, get rts, weld, attack hives, attack OTHER aliens... it just gets redicilious and totally unbalanced...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, the fade has to stop the marines from doing their thing, not the other way around. 2 good marines with shotguns won't be challenged by a single fade alone.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->3. Good marines have very little affect on the outcome of the game... basically its up to the commander to know when to spend res... but for aliens, a very good alien totally can screw the marines chances at winning... why should one player be able to screw the entire marine team? lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its 98% marines, 2% commander when the commander is actually playing the way he is supposed to. And I'm not talking about 30 man servers because that's when aliens get their HUGE res disadvantage which comes in the form of late, powerless fades. The only way the marines can lose a 30 man game is if their commander is terrible or when there is a really significant skill gap pivoted toward the aliens.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->4. the guns are complete crap! i'd rather have ANY WW2 gun... atleast then, all i'd need is 1-3 shots to kill something... as opposed to the TSA and their PLASTIC BULLETS LMG/HMG! AHHH!.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you assuming that the aliens have the same physiology as we do?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5. It takes to long to load a gl... it also shouldn require me to load the whole drum... what if i only have time to load 1...shoot 1...?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The GL is generally bugged, I won't even get into it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overall the entire gameplay of NS is flawed and weak... a much better approach would be... fast play... someting between what ns and co is now, but with the ns conquest-type gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, NS needs to be faster. If NS was faster, there'd be no spawn camping.
4. the guns are complete crap! i'd rather have ANY WW2 gun... atleast then, all i'd need is 1-3 shots to kill something... as opposed to the TSA and their PLASTIC BULLETS LMG/HMG! AHHH!.
<!--quoteo(post=1664494:date=Dec 17 2007, 06:20 PM:name=Domining)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Domining @ Dec 17 2007, 06:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you assuming that the aliens have the same physiology as we do?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You got a point.
In the aliens movies, the marines had weapons for close quarters fighting... even though supposedly the marines arsenal also included various laser guns etc... it's in the comic books somewhere lol...
Anyhoot... they brought guns for the situation which was fighting in small rooms without the risk of tearing up the entire place... i.e. they had no rocket launcher, but they did have grenades and flamethrowers?... probably cause of how non flammable and cold metallic/plastic the future is lol.
Also i remember something about how a beretta is more deadly in close range then 5.56mm... basically assuming a fleshy unarmored target, shooting a projectile with more mass at close range means more gushy splashy time for the bullet...more kinetic energy, more mass in the bullet, and the bullet is probably a hollow point so it'll expand and make a bigget hole,,,etc etc... whereas the rifle round will most likely not even tumble through the target at that range... making a considerable smaller hole... blah blah blah...that's what full auto is for...etc etc...
so ya... the enemy are very hard to kill... look at the gorge... that thing is a bullet sponge... why i bet i could have 400 armor if i could tie gorge flesh to my helmet lol.
So... Ns 2... after 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 marines have died..... i think the generals that think about how to win this war wonder if the marines need a better array of weaponry better suited for this odd enemy that can slice through plastic body armor like its knowones buisness... perhaps weapons which have fewer rounds in the magazine so as to hold much bigger harder bullets is whats called for... something that can pass through dense muscles and bones... and then explode within the target blowing chunks off fades and rupturing oni in seconds... ya... something like that for a standard weapon and we just might be onto something <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
O yay we dont need shotguns anymore if we get that... because in essence... a shottie is shooting alot in a short period of time of a few trigger squeezes... so we can get the same effect if our guns have a very high rate 5 round burst... something even faster then full auto... so ya shotties are not needed... just flip that selecter switch to shottie mode and your rifle will do the same job, and in style. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/asrifle.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::asrifle::" border="0" alt="asrifle.gif" />
I saw on the history channel some gun that when you squeeze the trigger, the gun fires off 2 rounds at insane high rate of fire... and if your still holding down the trigger, the gun goes into a slower rate of fire to conserver ammo... pretty cool idea... also heard that the steyr aug fires in either semi auto, or full auto depending on how hard you squeeze the trigger <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Anyway if anything we need a burst rate of fire on our guns... it just makes sense... that is if their more powerful lol... otherwise... ya spray away... or better yet... dont shoot, it'll only attract them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
- "Tech tree? That's taking you 40 hours to learn, right?
- "I can't hit anything! (Marine)
- "I still can't hit anything! (Skulk)
- "I get lost...
- "I have no clue what to do.
It took me over two years to develop half decent aiming skills against a small target as the skulk.
My friends are rather good at aiming and enjoy shooters like HL1/2 deathmatch or Quake. In their opinion, the LMG is just too inaccurate to be handled efficiently. (And I agree, that's why you need shotguns asap, lol.)
A) Which Beretta?
B) LOL! Stop talking about guns, now.
<!--quoteo(post=1664573:date=Dec 19 2007, 01:38 AM:name=Triple)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Triple @ Dec 19 2007, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the only reason i dont like ns1 is well i do like it but its the people that ruin the game with auto aim bot and all that stupid azz crap hacks....server admins dont specate there servers no more to get rid of people like that...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
<!--quoteo(post=1664584:date=Dec 19 2007, 06:04 AM:name=Nilles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nilles @ Dec 19 2007, 06:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664584"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It took me over two years to develop half decent aiming skills against a small target as the skulk.
My friends are rather good at aiming and enjoy shooters like HL1/2 deathmatch or Quake. In their opinion, the LMG is just too inaccurate to be handled efficiently. (And I agree, that's why you need shotguns asap, lol.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Took me about a year, see above quote.
Wouldn't you see that as a problem? Personaly I have never ever read any gamemanuals, and never really intend to. I want to play a game and not read text, and I don't think I'm the onlyone. Does NS being so complicated, that only players who are really interested and bother investigating and reading for several hours, make it a game suitable for a large audience, or just for the hardcore ns fans? I would imagine the developers are aiming to create a game that reaches many players, rather than a game tailormade for their previous fanbase.
Why you ask? Because FIGHTING ALIENS IMPLIES KILLING ALIENS.... not some ridiciouls, "lets ninja up a pg and siege them,...or loose...or endless relocate...or dc bunkers...or oc farms..." type game.... i mean serioussly... NS REALLY IS A HALFLIFE MOD... i.e. not a real dedicated game... just some psuedo game ripoff of starcraft...just as counterstrike was a psuedo game ripoff of the rainbow six series, as the creater of that mod admitted <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Ways to fix NS:
1. look closely at AVP and AVP2 games...
Notice how people play as xenomorph even though a pulse rifle can rip one in half with 10 shots or less with just chest hits... and like 1-2 if you hit them in the head... MAKE FADES LIKE THAT.
Notice how people still decide to play as aliens in AVP2! Why? Because with proper stealth and strategy they have a chance of winning if they stay in the shadows...AND THATS MORE FUN THEN RT BUILDING AND HIVE PROTECTING>>>>ZZZZZ...
Even though MARINES COME WITH NIGHTVISION GOGGLES AND FLASHLIGHTS AND SMARTGUNS THAT ARE ALMOST 100% aimbots built into the game! OOOooOOOohhh how nice is that xD
And lets not forget the AVP2 equiviliant of the Heavy Armor... you know what i mean... that beast with one arm with rocket launcher and flamethower, and the other arm with laser and minigun!!!!!
And yet, people still play as aliens... What i'm trying to say here is who cares if we piss off the 200 or so people what still play NS 1, and the about 70 or so that only stack aliens.... And instead lets make a new game thats actually fun... actually about marines fightin galiens... and lets attract a new community of 1000's of players and the NS 1 loyalists still have NS 1.... which is where all the good maps are anyway... NS2 is strictly like deleting everysingle custom mod and map of NS 1 and knowone plays on such vanilla servers...and some players can't live without xmenu...and wtf 2 points to buy 1 level of depleated uranium.... so lets try to make NS 2 fun out the box for once...
I mean theirs something to be said about how 90% of NS 1 servers are combat only... i suggest NS2 be a mix between NS 1's CO and NS gameplay... i want a commander to dictate WAR... not "build that rt then phase back to base and weld that AA".
Dare i say it... i want VEHICLES IN NS2 so we can race down the halls in warthogs blasting everything with mk19's (<- real life full auto grenade launcher <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher</a>).... because that pants-crapping fun lol... ya the devs need to learn about what fun is all about <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
O ya while your at it... add this GL to NS 2... and NS 1, cause if NS 2 is just a rerun of ns 1 then i could care less about buying it...
<a href="http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,SoldierTech_060323_mgl140,,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,1463...mgl140,,00.html</a>
Also marines should get a rocket launcher and be able to double jump. I mean come on, these devs dont know how to make a game. They only made some dumb mod 5 years ago that is still the most popular 3rd party mod on steam above any source or HL1 mod. And originality? Nope, starcraft had a secret fps mode that cheats would allow you to play.
Screw the fans! look how successful EA is and they NEVER talk to fans!
The funny thing is, this is true. Capping RTs makes NS boring.
Weldbots need a building function.
both games are of a similar age. ns is a mod and avp2 is a full developed game so u would think it would be far more popular but last time i player avp2 online it was pretty dead.
So many new gaming engines, free to modify just like the HalfLife 1 engine was at that time. Even the Unreal 3 engine is very high end and scalable to a broad selection of systems. So unless the one they are using is powerful, I don't imagine the view of this mod will change at all.
I saw this and went OH MY GOD, that would help a ton with the size of typical NS classic maps. It would be really nice if not only the comm waypoints showed up but if there was a way to set personal waypoints for yourself so if you want to drop the hive in x location and you dont know where that is you can just set a waypoint and go. To make it really cool it could find the shortest path based on the abilities of your lifeform, e.g. skulks can climb walls so they can go thru vents etc. Gorges can't so they would get a different path then a skulk. For any tricky stuff KISS (keep it simple stupid) assume the player can't do anything tricky (fade thru small vent or long blink that requires careful tapping, etc.)
dynamic waypoints sounds pretty hard to implement...
at the very least, give the marine commander the ability to give like er.. dot-to-dot style waypoints (hold a key, click, click, click). 1->2->3->...->destination. helps the newbies (so long as you have a patient and kind enough commander). include the ranking/medal system and a smart commander will only do the step-by-step waypoints for the newbie players.
but that doesn't help the aliens :/ still.. i'm not sure why aliens might need it
wait.. yeah.. if you can give -every- player the ability to lay down personal (step-by-step) waypoints on their maxi-map, that'd help the aliens who need to find their way to certain locations ( - i can't remember, been a while since i played, did the aliens even have a maxi- or mini-map?)
plus you can shade parts of the map to cover areas of alien influence - or rather, dynamic infestation
hmmm, but yeah, personal and dot-to-dot waypoints sound like good ideas to me <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
edit: i forgot, but waypoints should automatically expire when you come to them, or after a certain period of time, so the marine's screen doesn't get cluttered.
it'd also be nice to have the ability (for personal waypoints) to recall (and reverse) the last few waypoints used. so a newbie could plot his way to a location, recall, reverse, and find his way back. i doubt the feature would be used that much though.
I generally hate "training maps", at least the ones where they slowly spoon feed me "wasd", then "jump" and finally the advanced "crouch jump".
<!--quoteo(post=1664799:date=Dec 21 2007, 11:29 AM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FocusedWolf @ Dec 21 2007, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1664799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS 1 is basically a game for nerds... let's put it this way... no game company would produce a game like NS if they were charged with the task of making a game about marines fighting aliens....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the only part of your post I agree with and it's one of the reasons I like NS2. It's has different elements than most FPS out there.
Edit: I didn't read Harimau's post. I agree with him.
Agreed.
<!--quoteo(post=1665995:date=Jan 2 2008, 11:08 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 2 2008, 11:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1665995"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe, but a simpler solution would be to allow comms to give multiple chained waypoints to marines. Let the human intelligence do the thinking and avoid that messy AI stuff while providing dynamic waypoints.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah... that's what I just said..
It is a bit much t expect new to NS players to like NS1 as the engine is showing its age, but to claim that NS2 is also too old on Source is incorrect.
The Source engine is still getting improved, TF 2 + HL 2 ep 2 use an updated Source engine.
Look at Left4Dead, its an intriguing game that look good... on Source.
Using the UT 3 or Crytek engines is not an automatic win either, you still need a solid game design, which NS has already...its just a bit complicated for the average console user, requires a little learning on the players part.
TBH I am sick of the basic point and shoot FPS stuff thats being churned out, I yearn for a Deus Ex 1, System Shock 1 + 2 ...or the same complexity of NS1.
Now NS has the worse side of this fact because there's no tutorial to teach you how to play the game.
So you start playing and you keep getting your ass kicked without even knowing how or what the hell happened to you. Repeat this process over and over again and you will end up by uninstalling the game and hating it... not to mention that you weren't expecting much in the first place since it's a mod.
Compared to other shooters, NS is extremely complicated because it has a unique concept (fps/rts) and an alien race that works in a way you've never seen before.
There's a simple solution to all of this, you absolutely need a good TUTORIAL.
for me personally i'm a fast learner, it took me a single game to learn everything that i needed to know about the game, however some people can't learn as fast as others; the term would be "spoon fed". And that's what the tutorial would do, it would take them by the hand and walk them through the game step by step explaining everything on the way.
You'd need to screen people of course, and also create a cvar to turn off the icon should they want to simply play.
Even better would be if there was a command to enter into two-way voicechat; your usual mic button would then only send to one other person, and vice versa. That way, a new player could get into a private chat with a Helper and get a lot of info without disturbing the rest of the game.
I suppose you could be right about the Source engine. I guess it depends no what they do with it, but everyone I nkow who watched me play NS1 was totally turned off by the engines age. ###### is Old as hell! hehe
I have to agree with the tutorial part also. Even after playing NS1 for a while, I was still finding out stuff that I never knew, but watched someone else do. The only reason I even gave it a look was because I read about it through Penny-Arcade. They did a comic about the mod as a "this is how mods should be done" and I agree.
It was extremely fun to play once you knew how, but it just got old. Still, any mod that out does full retail games to me is a real winner!
You'd need to screen people of course, and also create a cvar to turn off the icon should they want to simply play.
Even better would be if there was a command to enter into two-way voicechat; your usual mic button would then only send to one other person, and vice versa. That way, a new player could get into a private chat with a Helper and get a lot of info without disturbing the rest of the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This used to exist, they were called Guides. Used to have a purple gorge icon, it was a good program.
btw good topic eoy!