<!--quoteo(post=1693437:date=Nov 14 2008, 10:23 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Nov 14 2008, 10:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693437"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is it scary? I can't imagine it's scary when you have company.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obscure's great! At the start you usually need one of you to hold the torch so you can see (light also weakens the monsters) and there were several bits where I was squealing despite my flatmate playing alongside me. Great game if you have a friend handy and a PS2 :3
The list of cvars is pretty specific, and there are quite a few speed related commands (I think z_forwardspeed is the zombie running speed). But if they're specific enough to let you change the hunter, tank, witches, boomers, and smoker's speeds, I'm pretty sure they're not going to overlook zombies.
...I mean, they even have speed thresholds for which animation the zombie will play when it lands depending on how fast it was falling when it hit the ground. They've got a cvar for the speed of the smoker's tongue.
z_non_head_damage_factor is the damage multiplier applied to non headshot damage (there's actually one for each difficulty, i.e. z_non_head_damage_factor_normal), but it's 0 for Hard and Expert. The only way I could see of effectively using this is to jack up z_health (zombie max health), and then leaving the non-headshot damage modifier at 0. There doesn't seem to be a modifier for actual headshots (I think it's usually 3x or 5x).
Interesting note: the shotgun is 5x as powerful if you're within 100 units of the zombie (by default). The console command list says it's for regular infected, but I'd think it's the same for tanks and hunters and such too.
I'd test the z_forwardspeed, but it is late. Someone else can try it. The other commands are pretty explicit. Console command list is over <a href="http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf" target="_blank">here</a> (it's a pdf).
Okay so I messed around with those commands a bit and I'm actually pretty pleased.
Z_health changes how much body damage a zombie can take. Z_non_headshot_damage_(difficulty) is a good one though. Setting this to 0.01 or less make things very interesting. I tried setting it to zero but not only does it make the AIs worthless (They always aim at torso) but it looks a bit goofy. 0.01 and 0.005 are my favorite settings so far. Z_speed is how fast the zombies run at you. Normally 250. Changing it to 100-200 makes the zombies run slower but kind of messes up their animation as well.
Also, zombies seem to die from 1 headshot regardless of weapon or health. If anybody wants to mess around with these in-game (Can this be done?) just message me over steam, I'm in the NS-OT group as Mr.Popadopolis.
Z_health 700 Z_non_headshot_damage 0.005 ^This is a pretty good setup so far. Headshots are really needed to kill but you can still take down a zombie in 2 good shotgun body shots. For extra difficulty there is a command that goes something like z_incap_damage_modifier, set this to 20 or so and you die very quickly if you get knocked onto the ground, makes things a bit more realistic.
<!--quoteo(post=1693516:date=Nov 15 2008, 02:38 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Nov 15 2008, 02:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693516"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Okay so I messed around with those commands a bit and I'm actually pretty pleased.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1693655:date=Nov 17 2008, 06:04 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Nov 17 2008, 06:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693655"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyone up for a game with that cfg?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1693659:date=Nov 17 2008, 08:31 PM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Nov 17 2008, 08:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693659"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't *deserve* to play with humans D:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bots aren't humans, besides Soey was in a lot of pain, wouldn't you put your dog down with a 1 inch range shotgun blast if it was unfit for life? No, you would EAT it, you pre-zombie invasion boomer you.
I know someone else who really grew a grudge against anyone who tried to confront him while down. The survivors are immune! We cannot feast on your <i>fat</i> juicy flesh. Not without a fork at least anyway.
Fun facts: Sniper rifle can penetrate 5feet concrete pylons but not the second floor to the last safehouse, ohhh no. Shame really.
Tanks can break saferoom doors and are prone to get stuck on trains. If not, run up and down the double escalator if possible, dodge any projectiles and keep firin. EZ peazy.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited November 2008
for those of you who havent noticed:
<!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->l4d is released<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
first impressions after playing through the full 'no mercy' campaign: wow! loved it. they made it a whole lot tougher, I went through with my roommate on advanced, and we had a lot of trouble later on. I don't know how I would possibly make it all the way through on expert.
from what i've noticed, on advanced there are a lot more infected, more boss zombies, and they all do a lot more damage. i think the common zombies do 5 per hit instead of 1 like in the demo, and a boss infected can take you down for good pretty quick.
the last level, the rooftop standoff, is freaking tough. I barely survived after the 6th try, and everyone else died.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1693671:date=Nov 17 2008, 09:47 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Nov 17 2008, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bots aren't humans, besides Soey was in a lot of pain, wouldn't you put your dog down with a 1 inch range shotgun blast if it was unfit for life? No, you would EAT it, you pre-zombie invasion boomer you.
I know someone else who really grew a grudge against anyone who tried to confront him while down. The survivors are immune! We cannot feast on your <i>fat</i> juicy flesh. Not without a fork at least anyway.
Fun facts: Sniper rifle can penetrate 5feet concrete pylons but not the second floor to the last safehouse, ohhh no. Shame really.
Tanks can break saferoom doors and are prone to get stuck on trains. If not, run up and down the double escalator if possible, dodge any projectiles and keep firin. EZ peazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->*
I'm* not a bot Mr. Shoot-my-teammate-in-the-back-then-set-them-on-fire-as-they-lie-on-the-floor.
Tycho, there's a BIG difference between the argument Simon Pegg was getting at and the argument for zombies in L4D. Or maybe there isn't really and it's just Pegg being purist.
It all boils down to the way you wish to portray the zombie. Pegg's first argument totally undermines itself. He says:
<!--QuoteBegin-"Simon Pegg"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Simon Pegg")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The speedy zombie seems implausible to me, even within the fantastic realm it inhabits. A biological agent, I'll buy. Some sort of super-virus? Sure, why not. But death? Death is a disability, not a superpower. It's hard to run with a cold, let alone the most debilitating malady of them all."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But surely by extending that logic: if something is dead, it is dead. Dead things cannot walk at all, let alone run. You can't use logic to apply rules to make-believe. The zombie itself is an invention based on some aspects of reality, but it is fiction all the same. You cannot claim that one fictional portrayal is 'correct' and another is 'wrong'. The term 'undead' isn't something that exists in the real world, so it's really open to interpretation. Of course there are better and worse ways of interpreting it, but it really depends on the purpose, and this is the crux of my argument. You judge the effectiveness of the zombie portrayal on how it fits the goals of its wrapper.
If zombies are intended for horror, then keep them slow and creeping, much like the actual sensation of fear. If you're aiming for thriller, then there's no reason not to increase the pace. So, whether it's a survival game or an action film, if you're going to include zombies they need to fit your goals. I like Pegg, a lot, but I think he's truly being a bit too prescriptive with his view of what a zombie is, which is probably why you quoted it, Tycho.
L4D is about getting the adrenaline pumping, and it's all about pacing between the two extremes. 'Classic' zombie flicks have never really got any past-paced sections, the only thing I can think of is the ultrafast travelling shots in the forest of <i>Evil Dead</i> and the tentacle ... violation, and those shots constituted a very brief part of the film.
I would definitely agree if you felt that L4D fails as a survival horror, but we all know it's not supposed to be that (or if it is, there is a misunderstanding by the marketeers of what survival horror is). The zombies are fast because they need to be fast, and they work well because they are fast.
P.S. Thanks for the link, it was a good read anyway.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
So, I think adv is actually a good level of challenge (probably), as expert is kinda insane when you have much longer levels like you do now.
So far I haven't been able to get to the end of No Mercy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1693704:date=Nov 18 2008, 11:40 AM:name=X_Stickman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(X_Stickman @ Nov 18 2008, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693704"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm* not a bot Mr. Shoot-my-teammate-in-the-back-then-set-them-on-fire-as-they-lie-on-the-floor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, were you playing with us the other day? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I still haven't beaten the demo on Expert. Did the release have other effect on the demo, than the obvious drop in players? So rally to me, everyone who hasn't bought the full game yet, and help set my mind at ease!
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1693712:date=Nov 18 2008, 01:24 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Nov 18 2008, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693712"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->L4D is about getting the adrenaline pumping, and it's all about pacing between the two extremes. 'Classic' zombie flicks have never really got any past-paced sections, the only thing I can think of is the ultrafast travelling shots in the forest of <i>Evil Dead</i> and the tentacle ... violation, and those shots constituted a very brief part of the film.
I would definitely agree if you felt that L4D fails as a survival horror, but we all know it's not supposed to be that (or if it is, there is a misunderstanding by the marketeers of what survival horror is). The zombies are fast because they need to be fast, and they work well because they are fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd have to agree, but I'm also as disappointed as Tycho. I wanted (and initial billing, pre E3 gave the impression of) survival horror. The implacable horde, the ammunition running low, the pace brought on by the feeling that if we stay in this room <i>one more second</i>, we're going to be surrounded and forced into the inevitable. That wasn't what we got. The question comes down to whether you think L4D 'should' be an Action or Survival game. The argument is that there's plenty of action games, we don't need more of <i>those</i>, but you could argue there are very few good Cooperative games, which it also is.
I think the fundamental difference is that you could argue that the Infected being 'Infected' and not 'Zombies' is that were they Zombies, it might have been the game described above. Tycho's point is that calling them 'Infected' is not a different enemy, just the same one by a different name.
*Shrug*
It's not what I wanted. That said, I'll play (and enjoy) it all the same. I would have liked a Zombie game, but this will be fun too. It just isn't a 'Zombie' game in terms of what a Zombie is/should (delete to taste) be.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2008
I think fast or slow zombie are not set rules... Also I think the Half-Life 2 "zombies" are the best ones yet, these guys are based on what type of headcrab has control over them and also explains their different abilities and are visibly very different from each other as well...
I think we can agree to the fact that there are probably different strains/mutations of the zombie viruses that give zombies different abilities to make for an more interesting monster. The only problem is that this "virus" is not as visible as the HL2 aliens, that take over and mutate the human bodies.
I guess that fast zombies were alive and just recently infected, where slow zombies were dead for a longer period (graveyards anyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) and have risen from the dead, same virus but had to mutate differently because of rigormortis. The longer a zombie is ehm... undead... the slower it will become if it doesn't feed on BRAAAINS?
It is all up to the creator of a game to make this choice, but if I were Valve, I would've put fast and slow zombies in the game as well as the boss zombies... Makes for a more interesting game --> slow but thougher and comes in extremely large packs, fast but weak and comes in groups of what we see now or can be triggered if there is too much noise (<b>also I still want hiding to mean something in this game!</b>)
Ah the<i> game of balancing</i> is always at hand, everywhere <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1693726:date=Nov 18 2008, 11:41 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Nov 18 2008, 11:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess that fast zombies were alive and just recently infected, where slow zombies were dead for a longer period (graveyards anyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) and have risen from the dead, same virus but had to mutate differently because of rigormortis. The longer a zombie is ehm... undead... the slower it will become if it doesn't feed on BRAAAINS?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That actually is one of the common myths.
The undead slow down if they don't get their required food.
My e-crew and I have yet to have a close Versus match and that's partly because the other team is just random pubbers.
I'd be nice if we could enter in as a preset team and only go up against other preset teams. This would also cut down on players leaving, which seems to be a major problem.
After being invited twice in 5 minutes to a l4d game and then being promptly laughed at when I admitted that I dont own the game I just blew 50€ on getting myself an import version which will allow me to enjoy the game uncut.
THANKS A LOT JERKS!
p.s. Remember to invite me once I get around to installing it (which will roughly be sunday this week)
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1693749:date=Nov 18 2008, 05:06 PM:name=Faskalia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Faskalia @ Nov 18 2008, 05:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693749"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After being invited twice in 5 minutes to a l4d game and then being promptly laughed at when I admitted that I dont own the game I just blew 50€ on getting myself an import version which will allow me to enjoy the game uncut.
THANKS A LOT JERKS!
p.s. Remember to invite me once I get around to installing it (which will roughly be sunday this week)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey!
I didn't laugh at you!
I just gave you a derisive Bah! for not having it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1693743:date=Nov 18 2008, 07:57 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Nov 18 2008, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wish the lobby system was better thought out.
My e-crew and I have yet to have a close Versus match and that's partly because the other team is just random pubbers.
I'd be nice if we could enter in as a preset team and only go up against other preset teams. This would also cut down on players leaving, which seems to be a major problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> preset team? Like two of you guys set your start character to survivors, the other two to infected?
<!--quoteo(post=1693765:date=Nov 18 2008, 05:29 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Nov 18 2008, 05:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->preset team? Like two of you guys set your start character to survivors, the other two to infected?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No like you and 3 buddies would always be together against 4 other people.
<!--quoteo(post=1693743:date=Nov 18 2008, 06:57 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Nov 18 2008, 06:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693743"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wish the lobby system was better thought out.
My e-crew and I have yet to have a close Versus match and that's partly because the other team is just random pubbers.
I'd be nice if we could enter in as a preset team and only go up against other preset teams. This would also cut down on players leaving, which seems to be a major problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can make 'Friends Only' lobbies to cut down on noobage (and still hold out for a dedicated server to host it). Bear in mind this still allows friends of friends to join.
Also there's this 'Group Server' thing for L4D that I haven't tried out since they added it into the game. You might be able to form a Steam Group and limit lobbies to only that group.
Comments
Obscure's great! At the start you usually need one of you to hold the torch so you can see (light also weakens the monsters) and there were several bits where I was squealing despite my flatmate playing alongside me. Great game if you have a friend handy and a PS2 :3
...I mean, they even have speed thresholds for which animation the zombie will play when it lands depending on how fast it was falling when it hit the ground. They've got a cvar for the speed of the smoker's tongue.
z_non_head_damage_factor is the damage multiplier applied to non headshot damage (there's actually one for each difficulty, i.e. z_non_head_damage_factor_normal), but it's 0 for Hard and Expert. The only way I could see of effectively using this is to jack up z_health (zombie max health), and then leaving the non-headshot damage modifier at 0. There doesn't seem to be a modifier for actual headshots (I think it's usually 3x or 5x).
Interesting note: the shotgun is 5x as powerful if you're within 100 units of the zombie (by default). The console command list says it's for regular infected, but I'd think it's the same for tanks and hunters and such too.
I'd test the z_forwardspeed, but it is late. Someone else can try it. The other commands are pretty explicit. Console command list is over <a href="http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf" target="_blank">here</a> (it's a pdf).
Z_health changes how much body damage a zombie can take.
Z_non_headshot_damage_(difficulty) is a good one though. Setting this to 0.01 or less make things very interesting. I tried setting it to zero but not only does it make the AIs worthless (They always aim at torso) but it looks a bit goofy. 0.01 and 0.005 are my favorite settings so far.
Z_speed is how fast the zombies run at you. Normally 250. Changing it to 100-200 makes the zombies run slower but kind of messes up their animation as well.
Also, zombies seem to die from 1 headshot regardless of weapon or health.
If anybody wants to mess around with these in-game (Can this be done?) just message me over steam, I'm in the NS-OT group as Mr.Popadopolis.
Z_health 700
Z_non_headshot_damage 0.005
^This is a pretty good setup so far. Headshots are really needed to kill but you can still take down a zombie in 2 good shotgun body shots.
For extra difficulty there is a command that goes something like z_incap_damage_modifier, set this to 20 or so and you die very quickly if you get knocked onto the ground, makes things a bit more realistic.
words<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Based on yours, I'm currently using this:
<a href="http://www.lejimmeh.com/General/L4D/Scripts/slow.cfg" target="_blank">http://www.lejimmeh.com/General/L4D/Scripts/slow.cfg</a>
Works fairly well for me.
You don't *deserve* to play with humans D:
Bots aren't humans, besides Soey was in a lot of pain, wouldn't you put your dog down with a 1 inch range shotgun blast if it was unfit for life? No, you would EAT it, you pre-zombie invasion boomer you.
I know someone else who really grew a grudge against anyone who tried to confront him while down. The survivors are immune! We cannot feast on your <i>fat</i> juicy flesh. Not without a fork at least anyway.
Fun facts: Sniper rifle can penetrate 5feet concrete pylons but not the second floor to the last safehouse, ohhh no. Shame really.
Tanks can break saferoom doors and are prone to get stuck on trains. If not, run up and down the double escalator if possible, dodge any projectiles and keep firin. EZ peazy.
<img src="http://www.l4d.com/blog/images/posts/006/launchBox.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
lol
<!--sizeo:6--><span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->l4d is released<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
first impressions after playing through the full 'no mercy' campaign:
wow! loved it. they made it a whole lot tougher, I went through with my roommate on advanced, and we had a lot of trouble later on. I don't know how I would possibly make it all the way through on expert.
from what i've noticed, on advanced there are a lot more infected, more boss zombies, and they all do a lot more damage. i think the common zombies do 5 per hit instead of 1 like in the demo, and a boss infected can take you down for good pretty quick.
the last level, the rooftop standoff, is freaking tough. I barely survived after the 6th try, and everyone else died.
2 tanks are never fun.
edit: well, they are fun, but never easy
I know someone else who really grew a grudge against anyone who tried to confront him while down. The survivors are immune! We cannot feast on your <i>fat</i> juicy flesh. Not without a fork at least anyway.
Fun facts: Sniper rifle can penetrate 5feet concrete pylons but not the second floor to the last safehouse, ohhh no. Shame really.
Tanks can break saferoom doors and are prone to get stuck on trains. If not, run up and down the double escalator if possible, dodge any projectiles and keep firin. EZ peazy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->*
I'm* not a bot Mr. Shoot-my-teammate-in-the-back-then-set-them-on-fire-as-they-lie-on-the-floor.
That said, im gonna be playin it like mad, without my charming traits.
It all boils down to the way you wish to portray the zombie. Pegg's first argument totally undermines itself. He says:
<!--QuoteBegin-"Simon Pegg"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Simon Pegg")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->"The speedy zombie seems implausible to me, even within the fantastic realm it inhabits. A biological agent, I'll buy. Some sort of super-virus? Sure, why not. But death? Death is a disability, not a superpower. It's hard to run with a cold, let alone the most debilitating malady of them all."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But surely by extending that logic: if something is dead, it is dead. Dead things cannot walk at all, let alone run. You can't use logic to apply rules to make-believe. The zombie itself is an invention based on some aspects of reality, but it is fiction all the same. You cannot claim that one fictional portrayal is 'correct' and another is 'wrong'. The term 'undead' isn't something that exists in the real world, so it's really open to interpretation. Of course there are better and worse ways of interpreting it, but it really depends on the purpose, and this is the crux of my argument. You judge the effectiveness of the zombie portrayal on how it fits the goals of its wrapper.
If zombies are intended for horror, then keep them slow and creeping, much like the actual sensation of fear. If you're aiming for thriller, then there's no reason not to increase the pace. So, whether it's a survival game or an action film, if you're going to include zombies they need to fit your goals. I like Pegg, a lot, but I think he's truly being a bit too prescriptive with his view of what a zombie is, which is probably why you quoted it, Tycho.
L4D is about getting the adrenaline pumping, and it's all about pacing between the two extremes. 'Classic' zombie flicks have never really got any past-paced sections, the only thing I can think of is the ultrafast travelling shots in the forest of <i>Evil Dead</i> and the tentacle ... violation, and those shots constituted a very brief part of the film.
I would definitely agree if you felt that L4D fails as a survival horror, but we all know it's not supposed to be that (or if it is, there is a misunderstanding by the marketeers of what survival horror is). The zombies are fast because they need to be fast, and they work well because they are fast.
P.S. Thanks for the link, it was a good read anyway.
So far I haven't been able to get to the end of No Mercy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
Holy ######.
It's amazing. It's been a long time since two hours playing felt like 20 minutes.
There's nothing like coordinating an attack and watching your team rape the survivors.
Oh, were you playing with us the other day? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I still haven't beaten the demo on Expert. Did the release have other effect on the demo, than the obvious drop in players? So rally to me, everyone who hasn't bought the full game yet, and help set my mind at ease!
I would definitely agree if you felt that L4D fails as a survival horror, but we all know it's not supposed to be that (or if it is, there is a misunderstanding by the marketeers of what survival horror is). The zombies are fast because they need to be fast, and they work well because they are fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd have to agree, but I'm also as disappointed as Tycho. I wanted (and initial billing, pre E3 gave the impression of) survival horror. The implacable horde, the ammunition running low, the pace brought on by the feeling that if we stay in this room <i>one more second</i>, we're going to be surrounded and forced into the inevitable. That wasn't what we got. The question comes down to whether you think L4D 'should' be an Action or Survival game. The argument is that there's plenty of action games, we don't need more of <i>those</i>, but you could argue there are very few good Cooperative games, which it also is.
I think the fundamental difference is that you could argue that the Infected being 'Infected' and not 'Zombies' is that were they Zombies, it might have been the game described above. Tycho's point is that calling them 'Infected' is not a different enemy, just the same one by a different name.
*Shrug*
It's not what I wanted. That said, I'll play (and enjoy) it all the same. I would have liked a Zombie game, but this will be fun too. It just isn't a 'Zombie' game in terms of what a Zombie is/should (delete to taste) be.
I think we can agree to the fact that there are probably different strains/mutations of the zombie viruses that give zombies different abilities to make for an more interesting monster. The only problem is that this "virus" is not as visible as the HL2 aliens, that take over and mutate the human bodies.
I guess that fast zombies were alive and just recently infected, where slow zombies were dead for a longer period (graveyards anyone <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) and have risen from the dead, same virus but had to mutate differently because of rigormortis. The longer a zombie is ehm... undead... the slower it will become if it doesn't feed on BRAAAINS?
It is all up to the creator of a game to make this choice, but if I were Valve, I would've put fast and slow zombies in the game as well as the boss zombies... Makes for a more interesting game --> slow but thougher and comes in extremely large packs, fast but weak and comes in groups of what we see now or can be triggered if there is too much noise (<b>also I still want hiding to mean something in this game!</b>)
Ah the<i> game of balancing</i> is always at hand, everywhere <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
That actually is one of the common myths.
The undead slow down if they don't get their required food.
Is it a "viral" achievement that spreads from player to player on contact or what?
It'd be interesting to see the spread rate.
My e-crew and I have yet to have a close Versus match and that's partly because the other team is just random pubbers.
I'd be nice if we could enter in as a preset team and only go up against other preset teams. This would also cut down on players leaving, which seems to be a major problem.
THANKS A LOT JERKS!
p.s. Remember to invite me once I get around to installing it (which will roughly be sunday this week)
THANKS A LOT JERKS!
p.s. Remember to invite me once I get around to installing it (which will roughly be sunday this week)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey!
I didn't laugh at you!
I just gave you a derisive Bah! for not having it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
My e-crew and I have yet to have a close Versus match and that's partly because the other team is just random pubbers.
I'd be nice if we could enter in as a preset team and only go up against other preset teams. This would also cut down on players leaving, which seems to be a major problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
preset team? Like two of you guys set your start character to survivors, the other two to infected?
No like you and 3 buddies would always be together against 4 other people.
My e-crew and I have yet to have a close Versus match and that's partly because the other team is just random pubbers.
I'd be nice if we could enter in as a preset team and only go up against other preset teams. This would also cut down on players leaving, which seems to be a major problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can make 'Friends Only' lobbies to cut down on noobage (and still hold out for a dedicated server to host it). Bear in mind this still allows friends of friends to join.
Also there's this 'Group Server' thing for L4D that I haven't tried out since they added it into the game. You might be able to form a Steam Group and limit lobbies to only that group.