<!--quoteo(post=1695113:date=Dec 4 2008, 09:07 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Dec 4 2008, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><div align="center">to get back into the crossover realm!</div> <div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9UlViJIyI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9UlViJIyI</a></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bahaha, that was great. The Heavy sounds on the Tank fit like a glove.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can play through the whole thing in like 4 hours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not likely, at least on expert it's not...try 8+, from start to finish, No Mercy to Blood Harvest.
Also, the director AI makes the hordes come at different times every time, bosses at different times, weapons spawning differently, so the game is different every play through. Not to mention that the attention to detail in every level (scribbings on the walls, littered newspapers, debris blowing across the street, etc etc) of the campaign is absolutely astounding and combined with the director it keeps the game relatively fresh every play through.
Oh we're posting vvideolos? <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8bUjBGRioU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8bUjBGRioU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> this is what's going on in the mind of Tank
Apparently the new L4D update locks the Versus mode difficulty at Normal. Having not played Versus mode, or anything past the demo, this means nothing to me but I assume it means something.
<!--quoteo(post=1695159:date=Dec 5 2008, 02:23 AM:name=Haze)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Haze @ Dec 5 2008, 02:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not likely, at least on expert it's not...try 8+, from start to finish, No Mercy to Blood Harvest.
Also, the director AI makes the hordes come at different times every time, bosses at different times, weapons spawning differently, so the game is different every play through. Not to mention that the attention to detail in every level (scribbings on the walls, littered newspapers, debris blowing across the street, etc etc) of the campaign is absolutely astounding and combined with the director it keeps the game relatively fresh every play through.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have hardly noticed any of that because I'm too preoccupied by the HUGE PILE OF GIBBERING ZOMBIES IN MY FACE AAAAAAAAAHH!
The only thing remotely interesting with "random" (Read, few predetermined places) spawning is the horde. I refer to my toilet experience earlier in thread. Otherwise the zombie masters hang mostly in the same places and all weapons/items are hardly unexpected after a few playthroughs, it's either around that corner, in the distant bathroom, on the car or on the table. Whether or not the items actually spawn is a different story but do expect 4 pills in a medbox if you all have gone down once.
<!--quoteo(post=1695199:date=Dec 5 2008, 11:24 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 5 2008, 11:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It means that the survivors will still have a 40% or so chance of winning in VS. Dunno why some people would insist on hardcore xtreem difficulty.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Because there are so many cheap tricks for survivors to use against the Infected you need to give them a chance. Hunters can be swatted away, Smokers' victims can be punched in the face to detach the tongue with no FF damage, Boomers can also be punched away and shot if they don't time their attacks perfectly.
Tanks are the main threat to the Survivors on versus, otherwise too much of the Infected's success relies on the Boomer.
Taking out the difficulty vote was a lazy fix. They should have just made it an 8-person majority vote instead. Also, taking out the difficulty vote from campaign was totally idiotic. It means now you have to try Expert difficulty, realise about halfway through it's too hard and then quit the entire campaign and restart a completely new one to change the difficulty to Advanced. I can't see why it was changed in the first place unless there's some sort of glitch attached to changing difficulty mid-game in Campaign mode. If you're stuck in a game that's too hard after a democratic vote, then leave the server.
<!--quoteo(post=1695228:date=Dec 5 2008, 09:44 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Dec 5 2008, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Taking out the difficulty vote was a lazy fix. They should have just made it an 8-person majority vote instead. Also, taking out the difficulty vote from campaign was totally idiotic. It means now you have to try Expert difficulty, realize about halfway through it's too hard and then quit the entire campaign and restart a completely new one to change the difficulty to Advanced. I can't see why it was changed in the first place unless there's some sort of glitch attached to changing difficulty mid-game in Campaign mode. If you're stuck in a game that's too hard after a democratic vote, then leave the server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this also slightly annoys me.. but for the most part I know what to expect when I join a game difficulty now, and I would never join expert with people I don't know, it's just frustrating because most people don't use mics and suck.
As for infected being easy to beat - they each have weaknesses because you have to work together, it's not hard as a boomer to get at least 2 people per life, if not multiple pukings (which I find a boring wait to recharge, you should be able to puke halfway or something and have limited puke range), unless you're not experienced. Once you've got 2 unpuked people 2 hunters can easily incap them long enough to do serious damage. it's all about location location location, hallways are not your friend, that's why each level has an open space where you should plan your attack. make use of them.
obviously this is totally idealized and most people aren't good at teamwork. So I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time if you couldn't knock eachother it'd be the other extreme quite easily
Wait what? They removed difficulty vote for ALL modes? That's god damn, I quote: "idiotic". Even if it was any glitches/bugs I didn't notice nor did anyone else.
Advanced is need in versus if the survivors are superior and they often are, especially with friends and mics. A equally communicating infected team can't usually do as much better. You are pretty much screwed as soon as they get upgraded weapons, even with a tank.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2008
did they actually remove the voting to change it? i thought they just fixed it so the server wouldn't revert back to normal on every map load like it would.
edit: also, i've beat 3 campaigns on expert. still don't have my beat one campaign on expert achievement, and the beat all 4 achievement only says ive beaten 1.
<!--quoteo(post=1695201:date=Dec 5 2008, 06:46 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Dec 5 2008, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695201"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have hardly noticed any of that because I'm too preoccupied by the HUGE PILE OF GIBBERING ZOMBIES IN MY FACE AAAAAAAAAHH!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who did I play with this afternoon - 12:30 eastern or so... svenpa obviously because your ingame name is the same (what out for him, he incapped me from full hp with his shotgun) who else was there
btw I was 'agro.' ingame.
wondered if you guys made it through the finale, I regret that I had to leave, but if it's any consolation I aced that exam no problem.
I'll play with you guys any time, it was nice to have good teammates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited December 2008
twas me and my roommate, nooby_tuesday. sven left shortly after you, then redford joined up and we beat it with the bot. wasn't too difficult, but it didn't freakin count for me because apparently i have slow load times or something.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
one time i was dead but someone completed it, and that campaign counted towards beating all 4. one time i was dead but someone completed it and it did not count towards beating all 4, but it did for someone else in the game who was dead. one time i was alive, and it did not count towards all 4, nor did it give me the achievement for beating any campaign on expert. so currently, i personally have beat one, and my team has beaten 3, but it only shows that someone has beaten one while i have beaten none.
I see they removed voting for a difficulty change in Versus, so now it's pretty much guranteed the survivors will make it through as they take 2 points of damage from mook zombies =/
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1695307:date=Dec 6 2008, 10:11 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Dec 6 2008, 10:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I see they removed voting for a difficulty change in Versus, so now it's pretty much guranteed the survivors will make it through as they take 2 points of damage from mook zombies =/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No more pro Hunter comedy, sherpa! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1695230:date=Dec 5 2008, 03:18 PM:name=enf0rcer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enf0rcer @ Dec 5 2008, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695230"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As for infected being easy to beat - they each have weaknesses because you have to work together, it's not hard as a boomer to get at least 2 people per life, if not multiple pukings (which I find a boring wait to recharge, you should be able to puke halfway or something and have limited puke range), unless you're not experienced. Once you've got 2 unpuked people 2 hunters can easily incap them long enough to do serious damage. it's all about location location location, hallways are not your friend, that's why each level has an open space where you should plan your attack. make use of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm not saying Boomer is difficult to play (he's probably got the gentler learning curve), or that teamwork shouldn't be indispensable; I just don't like how crucial the Boomer is to the Infested.
As a Hunter or a Smoker against 4 survivors always sticking together, you need to wait for a random horde or wait for a Boomer to hit before you can get in and do serious damage. Until those opportunities arise you just have to make do with doing chip damage until you know the survivors are on low HP and will go down easy.
Basically, if the survivors know what they're doing, the role of the Boomer is essential to the other classes, but the other classes are not essential to the Boomer. There's no TF2-style class synergy between the classes in the sense that they all rely on eachother to cover their weaknesses. The Boomer's main weakness are sound, speed and rate of fire, but being able to spawn virtually (and sometimes literally) on top of survivors means you don't have to rely on the Hunters and Smokers to protect your weaknesses by distracting the team, you can wait till the back guy is reloading, or wait till they are occupied with shooting zombie fodder. Any small distraction is enough time usually, and the distraction doesn't need to be provided by your teammates.
GG last time guys, didn't know of ye were NS forumites.
Note: If you see me online now, or today, it's not me but a pal so don't go bonkers if he doesn't answer or say something weird or like, kick you from lobby.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1695330:date=Dec 6 2008, 08:35 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Dec 6 2008, 08:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->snip being able to spawn virtually (and sometimes literally) on top of survivors snip<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yah, no one mentions that the minimum spawn distance has been SERIOUSLY jacked up?
I haven't played in the last few days, but I noticed that the "you can't spawn this close to the survivors" distances is about double what it was before. I also don't remember seeing it ANYWHERE in patch notes, which kinda ticks me off.
<!--quoteo(post=1695370:date=Dec 6 2008, 06:37 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Dec 6 2008, 06:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695370"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yah, no one mentions that the minimum spawn distance has been SERIOUSLY jacked up?
I haven't played in the last few days, but I noticed that the "you can't spawn this close to the survivors" distances is about double what it was before. I also don't remember seeing it ANYWHERE in patch notes, which kinda ticks me off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I haven't played in the last coupld of days, gonna check that out now...
A good infected attack does indeed hinge on your boomers success, but I don't really mind it. All you really need is a distraction as the boomer...a smoker pulling someone from a faraway location that forces all of the survivors to shift their attention in that direction. Or hunters too, but not a suicide charge. Leaping over the survivors over and over again (especially in between walls) generally freaks them out and scatters their concentration enough that, by twenty seconds of doing so, they're not really watching for a boomer and more paranoid that a hunter is going to grab someone.
I played an incredbily intense game yesterday, both teams were very well coordinated (our team on vent and theirs working together just as well) and it was a neck and neck competition to see who would pull out the victory. I generally find that the infected still do manage to take down the survivors 50% of the time for me in an even match. *shrugs*
Thansal, spawn distance looks same as it has always been for me. The only thing I don't like is when the Director hastily decides to spawn you in dumb locations. E.g. finale of Body Harvest I automatically spawn as a Boomer right outside the house just as the survivors have finished with the second wave and are making their way to the truck and into the open to take on the Tank. To make it worse it announced the other player was the Tank but for some reason my Boomer was making thunderous Tank footsteps with screen shudder, which really confused me to the point where I rushed the survivors coming out of the house thinking I was about to change into the Tank for some reason. As it was I was boned either way because I had spawned in no man's land: too far to close the gap quickly, in too little cover to retreat to safety before a survivor saw me.
<!--quoteo(post=1695370:date=Dec 6 2008, 07:37 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Dec 6 2008, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695370"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yah, no one mentions that the minimum spawn distance has been SERIOUSLY jacked up?
I haven't played in the last few days, but I noticed that the "you can't spawn this close to the survivors" distances is about double what it was before. I also don't remember seeing it ANYWHERE in patch notes, which kinda ticks me off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You sure that wasn't just the server? I believe it's a cvar, and half the l4d server owners think they're better at balancing than Valve, so...
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1695462:date=Dec 7 2008, 04:49 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 7 2008, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695462"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You sure that wasn't just the server? I believe it's a cvar, and half the l4d server owners think they're better at balancing than Valve, so...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that is the case then we NEED something along the lines of sv_pure
I played a few rounds with it like that and it seriously sucked....
I must admit it's frustrating trying to find good servers sometimes.. mostly it was the difficulty level. I really should just play more campaigns with "friends" it's less stressful and competitive.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1695479:date=Dec 7 2008, 10:05 AM:name=enf0rcer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enf0rcer @ Dec 7 2008, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I must admit it's frustrating trying to find good servers sometimes.. mostly it was the difficulty level. I really should just play more campaigns with "friends" it's less stressful and competitive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Finding a server of the appropriate D/C is not all that hard...
But now that I know people are ######ing with cvars....
I don't remember, can you check cvars of a server from your client? I seem to remember that if you try you just get the default cvars... (like, if I were to type in sv_alltalk it would always come back as 0)
Comments
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/sz9UlViJIyI"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/sz9UlViJIyI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9UlViJIyI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9UlViJIyI</a></div>
<div align="center"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9UlViJIyI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz9UlViJIyI</a></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bahaha, that was great. The Heavy sounds on the Tank fit like a glove.
Not likely, at least on expert it's not...try 8+, from start to finish, No Mercy to Blood Harvest.
Also, the director AI makes the hordes come at different times every time, bosses at different times, weapons spawning differently, so the game is different every play through. Not to mention that the attention to detail in every level (scribbings on the walls, littered newspapers, debris blowing across the street, etc etc) of the campaign is absolutely astounding and combined with the director it keeps the game relatively fresh every play through.
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8bUjBGRioU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/H8bUjBGRioU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
this is what's going on in the mind of Tank
Also, the director AI makes the hordes come at different times every time, bosses at different times, weapons spawning differently, so the game is different every play through. Not to mention that the attention to detail in every level (scribbings on the walls, littered newspapers, debris blowing across the street, etc etc) of the campaign is absolutely astounding and combined with the director it keeps the game relatively fresh every play through.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have hardly noticed any of that because I'm too preoccupied by the HUGE PILE OF GIBBERING ZOMBIES IN MY FACE AAAAAAAAAHH!
Tanks are the main threat to the Survivors on versus, otherwise too much of the Infected's success relies on the Boomer.
Taking out the difficulty vote was a lazy fix. They should have just made it an 8-person majority vote instead. Also, taking out the difficulty vote from campaign was totally idiotic. It means now you have to try Expert difficulty, realise about halfway through it's too hard and then quit the entire campaign and restart a completely new one to change the difficulty to Advanced. I can't see why it was changed in the first place unless there's some sort of glitch attached to changing difficulty mid-game in Campaign mode. If you're stuck in a game that's too hard after a democratic vote, then leave the server.
this also slightly annoys me.. but for the most part I know what to expect when I join a game difficulty now, and I would never join expert with people I don't know, it's just frustrating because most people don't use mics and suck.
As for infected being easy to beat - they each have weaknesses because you have to work together, it's not hard as a boomer to get at least 2 people per life, if not multiple pukings (which I find a boring wait to recharge, you should be able to puke halfway or something and have limited puke range), unless you're not experienced. Once you've got 2 unpuked people 2 hunters can easily incap them long enough to do serious damage. it's all about location location location, hallways are not your friend, that's why each level has an open space where you should plan your attack. make use of them.
obviously this is totally idealized and most people aren't good at teamwork. So I can see where you're coming from, but at the same time if you couldn't knock eachother it'd be the other extreme quite easily
Advanced is need in versus if the survivors are superior and they often are, especially with friends and mics. A equally communicating infected team can't usually do as much better. You are pretty much screwed as soon as they get upgraded weapons, even with a tank.
edit: also, i've beat 3 campaigns on expert. still don't have my beat one campaign on expert achievement, and the beat all 4 achievement only says ive beaten 1.
<img src="http://starling.rinet.ru/music/sleeves/zap_sg.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
(obscure, long shot reference is obscure and much a long shot)
btw I was 'agro.' ingame.
wondered if you guys made it through the finale, I regret that I had to leave, but if it's any consolation I aced that exam no problem.
I'll play with you guys any time, it was nice to have good teammates <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
No more pro Hunter comedy, sherpa! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
As a Hunter or a Smoker against 4 survivors always sticking together, you need to wait for a random horde or wait for a Boomer to hit before you can get in and do serious damage. Until those opportunities arise you just have to make do with doing chip damage until you know the survivors are on low HP and will go down easy.
Basically, if the survivors know what they're doing, the role of the Boomer is essential to the other classes, but the other classes are not essential to the Boomer. There's no TF2-style class synergy between the classes in the sense that they all rely on eachother to cover their weaknesses. The Boomer's main weakness are sound, speed and rate of fire, but being able to spawn virtually (and sometimes literally) on top of survivors means you don't have to rely on the Hunters and Smokers to protect your weaknesses by distracting the team, you can wait till the back guy is reloading, or wait till they are occupied with shooting zombie fodder. Any small distraction is enough time usually, and the distraction doesn't need to be provided by your teammates.
Note: If you see me online now, or today, it's not me but a pal so don't go bonkers if he doesn't answer or say something weird or like, kick you from lobby.
being able to spawn virtually (and sometimes literally) on top of survivors
snip<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yah, no one mentions that the minimum spawn distance has been SERIOUSLY jacked up?
I haven't played in the last few days, but I noticed that the "you can't spawn this close to the survivors" distances is about double what it was before. I also don't remember seeing it ANYWHERE in patch notes, which kinda ticks me off.
I haven't played in the last few days, but I noticed that the "you can't spawn this close to the survivors" distances is about double what it was before. I also don't remember seeing it ANYWHERE in patch notes, which kinda ticks me off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I haven't played in the last coupld of days, gonna check that out now...
I played an incredbily intense game yesterday, both teams were very well coordinated (our team on vent and theirs working together just as well) and it was a neck and neck competition to see who would pull out the victory. I generally find that the infected still do manage to take down the survivors 50% of the time for me in an even match. *shrugs*
I haven't played in the last few days, but I noticed that the "you can't spawn this close to the survivors" distances is about double what it was before. I also don't remember seeing it ANYWHERE in patch notes, which kinda ticks me off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You sure that wasn't just the server? I believe it's a cvar, and half the l4d server owners think they're better at balancing than Valve, so...
If that is the case then we NEED something along the lines of sv_pure
I played a few rounds with it like that and it seriously sucked....
I guess I will play some more tomorrow....
Finding a server of the appropriate D/C is not all that hard...
But now that I know people are ######ing with cvars....
I don't remember, can you check cvars of a server from your client? I seem to remember that if you try you just get the default cvars... (like, if I were to type in sv_alltalk it would always come back as 0)