schkorpioI can mspaintJoin Date: 2003-05-23Member: 16635Members
<!--quoteo(post=1714069:date=Jun 26 2009, 03:06 PM:name=project_demon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (project_demon @ Jun 26 2009, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714069"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just realized something, we always thought of nukes and explosives in general as weapons that will destroy buildings and units... Why don't we make the nuke actually destroy the map itself, wouldn't that be awesome !! You plant a nuke somewhere on the map, arm it, blow it and that part of the map is inaccessible anymore (plus this is realistic). The developers already mentioned something about the maps basically being a series of rooms with weldable doors and stuff, so to simulate a part of the map rendered inaccessible we can simply force the doors of that part of the map to be sealed shut forever; or if no doors are available we can block the paths with debris from the destruction of the map (ceiling fell and blocked hallway). See below picture for example. <a href="http://img524.imageshack.us/i/ns2powergridoverview.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8739/ns2powergridoverview.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats could also work - but only temp.
aliens have a heavily fortified room, which the marines simply cannot break marines nuke it the room becomes inaccessible to both teams for a few minutes
its a - if i cant have it nobody will, type of mechanism.
once the room opens up again, it will be a race for re-occupation
although i guess mobile sieges will pretty much take care of everything though :S damn
No. I cannot agree with the whole premise of nukes in this game. Have you seen the government footage of nuke blasts? Nukes make MASSIVE explosions. If it only affected a room then it wouldn't be a nuke! Nukes are super weapons that completely destroy everything for miles and miles. Even the small ones! It's completely unrealistic in any acceptable measure and laughable. If you tell people you setting off a nuke in a game and all it does is blow up a room then people won’t take the game seriously.
No if a nuke goes off in this game, I don't care how big the map is, everyone and everything dies instantly, the map is destroyed, and the match is called a draw. So no, NO NUKES!!
They do mean tactical warheads, not those test setups you saw back there.
I do believe that they have or will find a way to reduce the required amount of material for critical mass (the point at which the stuff goes up), reducing the actualy detonationpower.
Also, threadstarter did describe "dirty bombs", which only irradiate a certain area but don't cause structural damage beyond the initial [conventional] detonation blast
Maybe you're thinking fusion. Because with fission weapons, the most efficient you can hope for is a spherical shape, and even that clocks in at a rather large load with an extremely large blast radius. edit: Just found what I was looking for on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass_(nuclear)#Critical_mass_of_a_bare_sphere" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>. Also, <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A mass may be exactly critical, but not a perfect homogeneous sphere. Changing the shape to be closer to a perfect sphere will make the mass supercritical. Conversely, changing the shape to be further from a sphere will decrease its reactivity, making it subcritical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just think that a "nuke" is just out of context with the setting of this game. A big bomb perhaps but not a nuke :) Anyways I just think this game needs more "scorpian that hovars without flapping" :P.
<!--quoteo(post=1715230:date=Jul 2 2009, 09:26 AM:name=RobB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RobB @ Jul 2 2009, 09:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1715230"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->They do mean tactical warheads, not those test setups you saw back there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> example for a tactical nuke: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bIM4h0s1mM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bIM4h0s1mM</a> i dont think a space station would withstand this bad boy :D
Dunno if dirty bombs would work on khaara, as they seem to be very tough when it comes to hostile environments. I dont think it would fit in ns...
I would understand the marines nuking the station after they failed to clean it from the khaara infestation, but why we need this in ns2?
I'm not entirely against the idea of a bomb that if launched would end the map, but it can't be available on every map or you'd get a handful of idiots who think it's funny to take over the comm chair and do nothing but research and construct whatever is required to make a nuke. It should be map-based, and even then it should be made available after say 15 minutes into the round as a way to end the match and hopefully if intelligently used, the dominating team would guard it while the underdogs would attempt to activate it in an attempt to end the game on a tie. I think it would be rather cool to be in a map in which the last of your team is getting exterminated and you were able to at least activate a switch which would blow up the map after 1 minute. You and your last teammates stand and fight to the death defending that button. Of course that also allows the possibility for someone to just activate it as soon as the switch is made availble or something lame like that, so I'd just assume not include any big red shiny candy-like buttons to press in the interests of everyone who isn't playing natural selections for kicks but is actually trying to win the round.
Nukes would be awsome, but since everyone is kinda undecided wether it is logical to have them in the game because of their destructive power, I just want to suggest something like what was mentioned early on in this topic: a bio bomb or chemical agent. It wouldn't destroy the map or damage it but it would be a bomb that, as the idea was percieved before, would need to be brought by the marines to where ever the commander would like it to be detonated and then armed over a period of time while being vulnerable. But it could also be used against the marines. If the aliens destroy the bomb near or close enough to the marines HQ it could have the same effect it would on the aliens, except now the marines are faced with the gas attack. This provides the aliens an incentive to destroy the bomb asap, and not just to possibly save themselves.
Nukes are fun to play with, but I believe it would be better to look into and focus on something that is less destructive in the terms of an explosion and focus everyones' efforts into creating an awsome, new weapon that can be used in the game.
If I remember correctly nukes were removed from NS1 because of the fact that marines would turtle in their base, wait for nukes, then just move out with those.
If nukes go into NS2, I'd like to see them implemented in a way that requires some "parts" that reveal themselves to a commander's scan. These parts would probably be in hive rooms. Let's just say there are two parts you need, plus a boat load of resources, for a nuke. The first part is available to a scan right from the start and the second would be able to seen 15 minutes into the game or so.
This encourages the use of nukes as an end-game situation where the aliens are clearly behind, marines probably have locked down the two hives they needed the nuke parts and it's only a matter of time before the alien's third hive is destroyed. This would also prevent the marines from turtling like they did pre-NS 1.0. If they turtle, no nukes.
Personally, though, I wouldn't want to see any nukes.
sigh, I think that nade spamming is good enough my friend. it was pretty lame when you die instantly due to nade spamming in a hive. A nuke would throw off the balance :(
Why make it radioactive. Borrowing from Star Ship Troopers... there nukes were RPGs lol. And the effect was just explosion, and no radioactive fallout.
They had nuclear hand grenades in Perfect Dark for N64 lol.
Presumably the reason they're bothering to send in Marines rather than just obliterating the facility from orbit is because they want it kept intact for later use. If your objective is just to blow things the hell up, going in on foot through heavily contested territory and putting a bomb next to it is probably the most difficult way to accomplish that.
If you have a supercritical mass, its going to be epic damage. If you have a critical mass, its still dangerous damage If you have a subcritical mass, it wont blow up. If you blow it up with ordinary explosives, it spreads as "dust", iradiating the area.
If you dont want to iradiate the area, dont use radioactive materials.
I always thought the Nuke should work like capping Resource Points with Resource Towers, but for Hives only.
First you would have to Tech to it. Then either it is a carryable object in a Marines invetory(only the Commander can purchase it, and there can only be 1 on the map at a time) or has a moveable platform like the M.A.S.C. The Nuke would have to be deployed under the Hive, and would have a countdown time of 2/3 minutes.
The Nuke would have the lowest HP of any structure in the game (think like the Observatory or Armory from NS1, maybe even lower).
The Nuke would be a biological discharge into the Hive only, and possibly any Eggs near it. Alive Kharaa would be unaffected, don't know if other structures should be affected.
Basically its a "Double Insurance" when assaulting/sieging(as in attacking) a Hive. Is it worth to Tech the Nuke, and forgo some other Late Tier Upgrades? That is the Commander's decision.
Comments
Why don't we make the nuke actually destroy the map itself, wouldn't that be awesome !! You plant a nuke somewhere on the map, arm it, blow it and that part of the map is inaccessible anymore (plus this is realistic). The developers already mentioned something about the maps basically being a series of rooms with weldable doors and stuff, so to simulate a part of the map rendered inaccessible we can simply force the doors of that part of the map to be sealed shut forever; or if no doors are available we can block the paths with debris from the destruction of the map (ceiling fell and blocked hallway). See below picture for example.
<a href="http://img524.imageshack.us/i/ns2powergridoverview.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8739/ns2powergridoverview.th.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats could also work - but only temp.
aliens have a heavily fortified room, which the marines simply cannot break
marines nuke it
the room becomes inaccessible to both teams for a few minutes
its a - if i cant have it nobody will, type of mechanism.
once the room opens up again, it will be a race for re-occupation
although i guess mobile sieges will pretty much take care of everything though :S damn
No if a nuke goes off in this game, I don't care how big the map is, everyone and everything dies instantly, the map is destroyed, and the match is called a draw. So no, NO NUKES!!
I do believe that they have or will find a way to reduce the required amount of material for critical mass (the point at which the stuff goes up), reducing the actualy detonationpower.
Also, threadstarter did describe "dirty bombs", which only irradiate a certain area but don't cause structural damage beyond the initial [conventional] detonation blast
edit: Just found what I was looking for on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass_(nuclear)#Critical_mass_of_a_bare_sphere" target="_blank">Wikipedia</a>. Also,
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A mass may be exactly critical, but not a perfect homogeneous sphere. Changing the shape to be closer to a perfect sphere will make the mass supercritical. Conversely, changing the shape to be further from a sphere will decrease its reactivity, making it subcritical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to blow the aliens out a room use sieges and GLs.
If you want to keep aliens out a room use turrets, welded doors and maybe some marines.
example for a tactical nuke: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bIM4h0s1mM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bIM4h0s1mM</a>
i dont think a space station would withstand this bad boy :D
Dunno if dirty bombs would work on khaara, as they seem to be very tough when it comes to hostile environments.
I dont think it would fit in ns...
I would understand the marines nuking the station after they failed to clean it from the khaara infestation, but why we need this in ns2?
Nukes are fun to play with, but I believe it would be better to look into and focus on something that is less destructive in the terms of an explosion and focus everyones' efforts into creating an awsome, new weapon that can be used in the game.
If nukes go into NS2, I'd like to see them implemented in a way that requires some "parts" that reveal themselves to a commander's scan. These parts would probably be in hive rooms. Let's just say there are two parts you need, plus a boat load of resources, for a nuke. The first part is available to a scan right from the start and the second would be able to seen 15 minutes into the game or so.
This encourages the use of nukes as an end-game situation where the aliens are clearly behind, marines probably have locked down the two hives they needed the nuke parts and it's only a matter of time before the alien's third hive is destroyed. This would also prevent the marines from turtling like they did pre-NS 1.0. If they turtle, no nukes.
Personally, though, I wouldn't want to see any nukes.
They had nuclear hand grenades in Perfect Dark for N64 lol.
If you have a critical mass, its still dangerous damage
If you have a subcritical mass, it wont blow up. If you blow it up with ordinary explosives, it spreads as "dust", iradiating the area.
If you dont want to iradiate the area, dont use radioactive materials.
First you would have to Tech to it. Then either it is a carryable object in a Marines invetory(only the Commander can purchase it, and there can only be 1 on the map at a time) or has a moveable platform like the M.A.S.C. The Nuke would have to be deployed under the Hive, and would have a countdown time of 2/3 minutes.
The Nuke would have the lowest HP of any structure in the game (think like the Observatory or Armory from NS1, maybe even lower).
The Nuke would be a biological discharge into the Hive only, and possibly any Eggs near it. Alive Kharaa would be unaffected, don't know if other structures should be affected.
Basically its a "Double Insurance" when assaulting/sieging(as in attacking) a Hive. Is it worth to Tech the Nuke, and forgo some other Late Tier Upgrades? That is the Commander's decision.