IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
this makes me so excited. if its actually "fixed" i will finally play daily.. instead of just jumping in to see new patches. such a milestone for the alpha if this gets fixed. goodluck guys! i know max wont let this thing beat him - any decent programmer lies awake at night mulling over the dozens of different approaches to solve his bug... you never really do get sleep when there's a bug in your life- er program.
So if the patch 152 bar isn't in gameplay tasks then do they still have a lot more in store for us before the patch which (hopefully) will be ready for friday?
<!--quoteo(post=1799233:date=Sep 21 2010, 12:24 AM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Sep 21 2010, 12:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So if the patch 152 bar isn't in gameplay tasks then do they still have a lot more in store for us before the patch which (hopefully) will be ready for friday?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hm, I'm not entirely sure that I've seen a milestone bar for the gameplay tasks for the previous builds, sure that there is supposed to be one?
<!--quoteo(post=1799233:date=Sep 21 2010, 12:24 AM:name=Heroman117)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Heroman117 @ Sep 21 2010, 12:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799233"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So if the patch 152 bar isn't in gameplay tasks then do they still have a lot more in store for us before the patch which (hopefully) will be ready for friday?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would imagine they'll just release what ever they've finished for gameplay tasks when they reach their 152 milestone in the technical tasks.
<!--quoteo(post=1799167:date=Sep 20 2010, 07:00 AM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Sep 20 2010, 07:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wouldn't all of the aliens need to be in game before we can call it a beta? they're a major foundation of this game. anything that gets added in beta <i>should</i> be minor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i would think jp/ha and all aliens have to be in. beta is more for tweaks and balances right and testing the rest of the maps right?
<!--quoteo(post=1799255:date=Sep 20 2010, 11:51 PM:name=ssjyoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ssjyoda @ Sep 20 2010, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I thought ladders weren't included in ns2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can almost recall when that was discussed. Their was all this talk about how marines should never be able to go anywhere an onos can't or something. Overall i think the idea was to prevent map makers from being permitted to add ladders to prevent them from making bad "ladder maps"... that doesn't make any sense because, with the exception of the onos and maybe the gorge, the alien team is far more mobile then the marine team. Unless the devs do something where the skulks need an upgrade to climb on walls :D
<!--quoteo(post=1799311:date=Sep 21 2010, 12:51 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Sep 21 2010, 12:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can almost recall when that was discussed. Their was all this talk about how marines should never be able to go anywhere an onos can't or something. Overall i think the idea was to prevent map makers from being permitted to add ladders to prevent them from making bad "ladder maps"... that doesn't make any sense because, with the exception of the onos and maybe the gorge, the alien team is far more mobile then the marine team. Unless the devs do something where the skulks need an upgrade to climb on walls :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think they discouraged ladder maps by discouraging stacking maps (because the comm can't drop things through ceilings nor even see through them to rooms below.
i think its important to not have onos be able to climb ladders. it looked so awkward in ns1 seeing these giant things climbing ladders. i think levels should be designed with onos corrals, ie areas where the onos has a free reign to run, it should be able to make it to all the hives/cc tech points but not necessarily all the RTs.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
edited September 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1799220:date=Sep 20 2010, 03:53 PM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Sep 20 2010, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Add compression for packets" Is this typical for FPS netcode? I'm curious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I saw this and thought it was strange to be adding this in. I was under the impression that netcode should contain minimal transfer of data to make the game more realtime.
From my experience, compression only increases the size of small dataset ( < ~50kb) but is much much more effective on larger datasets ( can go from 30mb to 300kb)
for compression to do any help in the netcode, every tick would have to currently be sending > 50kb to each client, and on a 30 ticks/sec server with 32 people on it, this would require an outgoing bandwidth of 48mb/s
and that's with the compressed packets of 50kb, when compression.
I did some analysis from some results I found online and graphed the the compression ratio vs filesize and got the attached graph. The filesize is in bytes, so a 330kilobyte file gets around a 90% compression rate. The results didn't go any lower than that, but you can see the trend and how it most likely wouldn't be useful to compress 5 kilobytes of data, or however big a tick update is.
the dataset i got was from this <a href="http://www.maximumcompression.com/data/text.php" target="_blank">site</a>.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
That's mainly going to come down to what compression method is used and when it's used. I'd be more concerned with the CPU overhead of having to compress/uncompress each packet. That's assuming each packet is being compressed and it's not some "larger packets only" type usage, such as when a player joins a server. When you factor out the clock cycles required for compressed network data across a 32 player server, it adds up quick.
It all comes down to how it's implemented, and if anyone is going to pull it off, I'd say Max and Kurt can do it quite well.
The type of compression were talking about doesn't add very much overhead to the cpu as each packet has to be crafted by the cpu anyway.
The general idea is to reduce the network traffic (server side) and in turn reduce both bandwidth needed for a server and also the latency (as the smaller the packet the less times the tcp/ip has to fragment it to fit it in the transmission unit size).
Basically, its a large network gain for a small amount of CPU overhead. I wouldn't worry your pretty little mind about it.
Shoudn't they make the right hand and feet static to the ladder (like skulks body to a wall) and make the head and left hand move freely to aim? When you aim to the right then the left hand will hold the ladder instead.
<!--quoteo(post=1799409:date=Sep 22 2010, 12:31 AM:name=Turbosniglen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Turbosniglen @ Sep 22 2010, 12:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1799409"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Shoudn't they make the right hand and feet static to the ladder (like skulks body to a wall) and make the head and left hand move freely to aim? When you aim to the right then the left hand will hold the ladder instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like when using ropes in Rainbow six vegas would be cool , you stop climbing to fire weapon then after done firing you can move again. not saying hang upside down but to...well....hang. Fast ropes ftw!!!!
Comments
Assuming the warping bug is really fixed.
It probably is.
Investigate sever sending a lot of traffic to each client when a player joins <- this however isnt meaning no big servers.
Is this typical for FPS netcode? I'm curious.
if its actually "fixed" i will finally play daily.. instead of just jumping in to see new patches.
such a milestone for the alpha if this gets fixed.
goodluck guys!
i know max wont let this thing beat him - any decent programmer lies awake at night mulling over the dozens of different approaches to solve his bug... you never really do get sleep when there's a bug in your life- er program.
get some sleep max, it helps
:)
Hm, I'm not entirely sure that I've seen a milestone bar for the gameplay tasks for the previous builds, sure that there is supposed to be one?
I would imagine they'll just release what ever they've finished for gameplay tasks when they reach their 152 milestone in the technical tasks.
i would think jp/ha and all aliens have to be in. beta is more for tweaks and balances right and testing the rest of the maps right?
Which will mean a new animation!
If they half ass it CSS / Half life style I'll be pissed.
If they half ass it CSS / Half life style I'll be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love running up ladders!
Also, Tig, change ur avatar. It's causing flashbacks. @_@
"No! Max, no! Don't put in that line of code! Nooooooo!!"
Hydra staircase anyone?
Hydra staircase anyone?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lerk lift!!!!
Obviously, they are now.
stop deleting my posts admins.. why all the hate.. i plead the 1st
If they half ass it CSS / Half life style I'll be pissed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but climbing with feet only left you open to shoot....lol.
Anyways, ladders where always there but not working.
(1) Is this going to be a dynamic prop ?
(2) Elevators?
(3) Editor Guides? (things like dynamic prop animations)
Oh Almost forgot!!! "Don't Forget Minimap Build Tool"
I can almost recall when that was discussed. Their was all this talk about how marines should never be able to go anywhere an onos can't or something. Overall i think the idea was to prevent map makers from being permitted to add ladders to prevent them from making bad "ladder maps"... that doesn't make any sense because, with the exception of the onos and maybe the gorge, the alien team is far more mobile then the marine team. Unless the devs do something where the skulks need an upgrade to climb on walls :D
i think they discouraged ladder maps by discouraging stacking maps (because the comm can't drop things through ceilings nor even see through them to rooms below.
i think its important to not have onos be able to climb ladders. it looked so awkward in ns1 seeing these giant things climbing ladders. i think levels should be designed with onos corrals, ie areas where the onos has a free reign to run, it should be able to make it to all the hives/cc tech points but not necessarily all the RTs.
Is this typical for FPS netcode? I'm curious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I saw this and thought it was strange to be adding this in. I was under the impression that netcode should contain minimal transfer of data to make the game more realtime.
From my experience, compression only increases the size of small dataset ( < ~50kb) but is much much more effective on larger datasets ( can go from 30mb to 300kb)
for compression to do any help in the netcode, every tick would have to currently be sending > 50kb to each client, and on a 30 ticks/sec server with 32 people on it, this would require an outgoing bandwidth of 48mb/s
and that's with the compressed packets of 50kb, when compression.
I did some analysis from some results I found online and graphed the the compression ratio vs filesize and got the attached graph. The filesize is in bytes, so a 330kilobyte file gets around a 90% compression rate. The results didn't go any lower than that, but you can see the trend and how it most likely wouldn't be useful to compress 5 kilobytes of data, or however big a tick update is.
the dataset i got was from this <a href="http://www.maximumcompression.com/data/text.php" target="_blank">site</a>.
It all comes down to how it's implemented, and if anyone is going to pull it off, I'd say Max and Kurt can do it quite well.
The general idea is to reduce the network traffic (server side) and in turn reduce both bandwidth needed for a server and also the latency (as the smaller the packet the less times the tcp/ip has to fragment it to fit it in the transmission unit size).
Basically, its a large network gain for a small amount of CPU overhead. I wouldn't worry your pretty little mind about it.
When you aim to the right then the left hand will hold the ladder instead.
<img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3344508/September/ladder_shooting.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
When you aim to the right then the left hand will hold the ladder instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like when using ropes in Rainbow six vegas would be cool , you stop climbing to fire weapon then after done firing you can move again. not saying hang upside down but to...well....hang.
Fast ropes ftw!!!!
Nice illustration BTW. :P