Alien Comms? Are you for real?
PoNeH
Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58801Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
Join Date: 2006-12-01 Member: 58801Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester
Am I the only one here that completely disagrees with this new ability to command on aliens? I thought that was the biggest feature of NS1 was the ability to have completely different styles of teamwork within the same game. Kept the game fresh and unique.
I'm already resistant to the new MAC building system for marines but I think I can get accustomed to that. Now drifters for aliens? That's just lame.
Gorges are pretty much useless now.
PS - Please, please, please remove the ability to have multiple commanders on Marines (don't know if it's possible for aliens). That's just retarded IMHO. There should be only one person giving orders at a time. Especially when it comes to military activities.
I'm already resistant to the new MAC building system for marines but I think I can get accustomed to that. Now drifters for aliens? That's just lame.
Gorges are pretty much useless now.
PS - Please, please, please remove the ability to have multiple commanders on Marines (don't know if it's possible for aliens). That's just retarded IMHO. There should be only one person giving orders at a time. Especially when it comes to military activities.
Comments
Alien Commander will not be removed. This is final.
You just sound like an obvious troll. A laundry list of NS2 changes from NS1; designed to incite as many tempers as possible. Can we not flame each other over this obvious troll?
The topics are dead or have their own topics to be discussed. This is just a pointless flame topic waiting to happen.
For gorges building stuff:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111621" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=111621</a>
I don't think he is trolling, just stating his personal opinion, calm down...
but I don't think there is any hope, that they'll change this ...
Need healing? drop a Crag. Need offense chambers? drop a Whip. Need ranged damage? go Lerk.
Dunno if they are going to implement Web to NS2 but nevertheless gorges are better off being skulks.
Useless woot? Mobile Healer + IMBA Hydras + missing abilitys... in no way gorges will be useless.
PLZ ppl, just think before you talk.
PS: A Whip without hydras is an easy kill, a whip with hydras is a challenge.
I don't think he is trolling, just stating his personal opinion, calm down...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's been a lot of threads sounding just like this resulting in 20 page flame wars where the original poster mysteriously says nothing after starting the topic. The likelihood of a real NS1/NS2 fan missing Alien Commanders is really low, so I thought trolling might be a >25% chance.
NS2 forums used to be easy to troll. Just overreacting because being wrong and making <i>myself</i> look like an idiot is better than being right, everyone flaming each other, mods having to lock a thread, and a troll giggling underneath a bridge.
Alien Commander will not be removed. This is final.
You just sound like an obvious troll. A laundry list of NS2 changes from NS1; designed to incite as many tempers as possible. Can we not flame each other over this obvious troll?
The topics are dead or have their own topics to be discussed. This is just a pointless flame topic waiting to happen.
For gorges building stuff:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111621" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=111621</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't give a crap if this is 20 years old; it is my opinion and this is the place to express your opinions.
Maybe if more people expressed their likes and dislikes, the devs will do something about it. They have been very receptive to people's opinions thus far.
Me, myself, and I feel that alien comm and multiple comms are lame and detract from the value of gameplay. Both sides are too alike: Comms, drifters/MACs, etc. What made the game fun was the disparity in style of gameplay between each side. This made for competitive play a lot more strategic. Basically, it diminishes teamwork as the importance of each player has decreased with the fact that drifters and MACs can do your job for the most part.
I'm already resistant to the new MAC building system for marines but I think I can get accustomed to that. Now drifters for aliens? That's just lame.
Gorges are pretty much useless now.
PS - Please, please, please remove the ability to have multiple commanders on Marines (don't know if it's possible for aliens). That's just retarded IMHO. There should be only one person giving orders at a time. Especially when it comes to military activities.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You aren't the only one who despises the new way of things, but as yourbonesakin has said, things are pretty much final. If you want NS2 to be NS1 + better graphics + improvements then understand that it isn't what most of the outspoken part of the community want and we'll have to wait for an NS1 mod of some sort. And the devs are making a game that they, for the most part, want.
Having multiple commanders is fine too, i see no problem there.
Your signature describes the new system to a tee. The devs should at least allow for a new gameplay option; much like Combat was added to NS1, the NS1-style should be added to NS2. Wouldn't be hard since all the elements are already there. Would just need a code change.
Basically, we need a mod for NS2. :)
Just wait. NS2 will be fun. NS2 is going to have a metric ###### ton more features than NS1 did. Yeah, the asymmetry has been reduced in this one case, but both sides are getting soooo much new content that teams'll end up playing out MORE different than in NS1.
Marines get transponder (this is way big. I'm waiting for the forums to <i>explode</i> when this hits the public). Replicate. Power Grid. Mobile ###### siege cannons (AWESOME!). Weapon addons. Exoskeletons get double miniguns.
Alien commanders get a version of SC2 Chronoboost (called "Growth" in build 157?). Alien FPS players get <i>individualized upgrades for each unit</i> so a team could go for their "Skulk rush" build and research Frenzy + other stuff or their "Gorge rush" build and research Bacteria (starting to sound like a proper RTS to me, eh?). Dynamic Infestation. Every Alien ability has an alt-fire (double the abilities if we still have 4 ability slots, this is huuuuge).
More damage types.
We just got out of Alpha last week and I'm just now running out of new asymmetry increasing features.
<img src="http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/picard-facepalm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I love ppl that know nothing, but still complain... (NS2 is easy mod-able + provides the tools for it)
PS: Ontopic: People still dont see the bigger picture, i'm sad.
You can't change the habits of a lifetime. Why even try it... if you can just deny it. Right?
We should rename it to Natural Selection 2010, and sell a new version every year. Damn i wonder how NS 2011 will be... (oh i already know...)
So the changes.
So far I have enjoyed several times being alien comm, supporting my team, as well as gorge, supporting my team.
For me the alien comm is one of the best things NS2 have. If you want to change that back to NS1 gameplay, make a mod for it.
By the way, both sides have multiple commanders. As at some point the game moves so fast that this gives you an advantage, so 2 or 3 comms can work together to protect a base/marines or to do a massive attack. Sneak your constructor and build support structures so your team can survive longer and perhaps win.
Last night I was alien comm, my team was ready to attack marine base, so I sent drifters to build crags and whips to give them support. As I have sent 5 drifters and my team was already attacking, marines only killed 1 drifter, 2 crags, 2 whips, then I sent 4 more, 1 more crag and 3 whips. Marines doom day...
What I don't understand is why they didn't build a second IP on the second base. On the next round I have gone marine comm and did that, so when aliens massively attacked we were safe. At that time I already researched GL and FT, so the rest of the game was a little quickly, back and forward, but last for 5 more minutes.
Resuming, the new gameplay is perfect.
Also I know that they've spent time on alien comm, etc and it's not likely to get removed.
However they should change it so that it's very different from the marine side. For example: Any gorge can just walk up to a crag/whip and select upgrade/abilities for it. And if you press E on the hive.... you <b>BECOME</b> a drifter and move out to either scout or turn into some structure (at which point you re-appear at the hive as your old form).
Just wait. NS2 will be fun. NS2 is going to have a metric ###### ton more features than NS1 did. Yeah, the asymmetry has been reduced in this one case, but both sides are getting soooo much new content that teams'll end up playing out MORE different than in NS1.
Marines get transponder (this is way big. I'm waiting for the forums to <i>explode</i> when this hits the public). Replicate. Power Grid. Mobile ###### siege cannons (AWESOME!). Weapon addons. Exoskeletons get double miniguns.
Alien commanders get a version of SC2 Chronoboost (called "Growth" in build 157?). Alien FPS players get <i>individualized upgrades for each unit</i> so a team could go for their "Skulk rush" build and research Frenzy + other stuff or their "Gorge rush" build and research Bacteria (starting to sound like a proper RTS to me, eh?). Dynamic Infestation. Every Alien ability has an alt-fire (double the abilities if we still have 4 ability slots, this is huuuuge).
More damage types.
We just got out of Alpha last week and I'm just now running out of new asymmetry increasing features.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't tell me that the alien comm idea was implemented merely due to balancing issues because that is a crock. You can easily tweak hitpoints, armor, res flow to balance a game... no matter how unique each team is. Most RTS games work this way.
As far as multiple commanders go, I guess there isn't any need to stop it since nobody really cares about the commander now anyways. He just builds his things independently while the team is doing their thing. Where is the teamwork?
One thing that I also dislike is that the comm doesn't drop the weapons, JPs, HAs, etc. anymore. I remember having to earn my shotty. That made me feel good and kept me coming back.
PS - Don't try to justify the need for these horrible new NS2 features with a specific scenario. I can write a freaking Bible with much more interesting NS1 scenarios. It doesn't prove anything...
As far as multiple commanders go, I guess there isn't any need to stop it since nobody really cares about the commander now anyways. He just builds his things independently while the team is doing their thing. Where is the teamwork?
One thing that I also dislike is that the comm doesn't drop the weapons, JPs, HAs, etc. anymore. I remember having to earn my shotty. That made me feel good and kept me coming back.
PS - Don't try to justify the need for these horrible new NS2 features with a specific scenario. I can write a freaking Bible with much more interesting NS1 scenarios. It doesn't prove anything...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 servers are still available - if that is what you prefer.
The devs always intended to make something different. i think flayra used 30-40% diff as the target. New game concepts are *new*. It wasnt for balance. more uniformity is supposed to make it easier for a new player to figure out what is going on - but that remains to be seen.
I'm not ready to bash the new stuff until it it tried in a feature complete game. It may turn out that some of it is untuneable & will have to be pulled, but the concepts need to be tested in the game the devs envisioned first.
I mean no matter how perfect they make the alien commander, for me it was about the uniqueness, the way it was handled has never been done before and worked out great, I am all about both sides being COMPLETELY opposite in every possible way in any game with multiple races and no alien commander was a huge testament to this game style that I love.
"NS1 servers are still available - if that is what you prefer."
This is by far the most asinine, consistent, and trendy reply I keep seeing on this site that NEEDS TO END. Does the NS1 servers have whips? DI? Improved grapics? Flame Throwers? GL ATTACHMENTS? Proper Fade Blink? Skulk Frenzy? ExoSkeleton? etc. etc. No.. no it doesn't.
The sheer amount of ignorance astounds me, you do realize he is talking about ONE aspect of the game he disagrees with right? And that NS2 is made up of MULTIPLE improvements and changes from NS1.
I do really like and enjoy all the new gameplay.
BUT
since the various alien structures have tons of abilities, there is no other way than having an alien commander using them in the most sneaky and insidious way.
this will make going up against alien territory, for marines, really unpredictable!
i think a good idea would be
-removing drifters
-exactly like marine buildings in NS1: commander places a "ghost structure" that gorges then have to build
-maybe it can be build-able by itself on infestation, but very slow (gorges can help)
-gorges can also build everything, wherever, but with own res
this way, commander is kept as "the mastermind (hivemind)" controlling abilities
gorges keep their roles from NS1
this ADDS asymmetry now that marines build through MACs (which i have to admit are kinda logical for a technological race)
Moreover it supports the new builder system which is very cool. Gorges versus macs would be silly.
Recommend alien comming for a few games and seeing how you go.
The sheer amount of ignorance astounds me, you do realize he is talking about ONE aspect of the game he disagrees with right? And that NS2 is made up of MULTIPLE improvements and changes from NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
sorry. i have 6 posts here & you have 500. i didnt realize i was being trendy. Also, I didn't intend to get you upset. :facepalm:
It is a CORE difference from NS1 that is being debated. The game is supposed to be different & in theory easier to play with shorter matches. The devs opted for more uniformity in a number of ways. Hey, I love NS1 too, I'm just sayin it is too early to say the new fundamental diffs won't work in the long run.
Guess what? Most RTS games have a commander figure for each side, no matter how things are balanced. :x
(sorry, I had to)
I don't think there's anything wrong with this, as long as hallways filled with turrets have obvious counters. I'm thinking a skulk or two goes around behind them and disables the power node. No more turrets.
So here goes:
I think it's not a BAD feature, the Alien Commander, but a less enjoyable one... I loved the differences between the Marines and Kaharaa in NS1. Marines had commanders... Aliens had to expand with hives... Now it's all getting closer and closer. Aliens get commanders. The Marines get to expand...
I think it's a better idea to keep the two teams apart like they were in NS1. The alien commander allows more team play with Aliens, but simultaneously kills the whole idea I had behind the Aliens. Aliens were a more solo team, you had to work together (gorges healing fades, bile bombs, lerks with umbra) but you could sneak around alone as a skulk and play individually. You can morph into a gorge, make a resource tower, put an OC at its side morph back to skulk and find some marines to chew. This was great! You got to decide what you wanted to do.
The marines were the total opposite. You had to move in squads, a lone marine often not very useful. The commander had to guide them, give them their weapons, research the upgrades, make that forward outpost etc. This gave a nice feeling to playing Marines, very team-based. I loved the heavy trains. A small group of marines marching through the hallways on their way to the main hive... Meanwhile, all the Kaharaa are frantically trying to stop them, lerks throwing umbra, fades blinking in and out...
With the new system as it is in NS2, I feel like the teams aren't all that different anymore.. Sure, the gorge can put a hydra down, but it's not that impressive. Sure, a skulk can go solo, but he has to defend the Drifters that will make resource towers. He has to follow all the orders of the commander to properly play the game. The same goes for the marines, but now they also have to expand... just like the Kaharaa. They don't have to build an outpost at a hive to deny the Aliens their tech... They need it to tech themselves...
tl;dr: I think the meaning of both teams changed drastically due to the new developments. As I haven't played the final version of the game yet, I can't give you a definitive opinion. But I sure think it's a shame for a great deal of the uniqueness of each team is gone (in my opinion).
"There's no teamwork in beta on pubs with randoms".
DOI