Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
This ain't now small time game by some obscure company called Blizzard if I even recall the name correctly... And obviously the Hive Mind is far superior to the Overmind <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
@paisand: Stating your opinion and shouting "OK DISCUSSION OVAR" doesn't really work.
For what it's worth, I'm still not sold on the whole idea of an alien commander, or multiple commanders. I'm willing to be talked around on the alien commander front, but having multiple commanders seems like a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist. NS2 maps aren't that big. I don't think one commander would have any trouble keeping an eye on it all. The commander's role is diluted enough by marines being able to obtain their own weapons, having more than one commander would just dilute it further.
<!--quoteo(post=1811365:date=Nov 28 2010, 04:02 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Nov 28 2010, 04:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811365"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@paisand: Stating your opinion and shouting "OK DISCUSSION OVAR" doesn't really work.
For what it's worth, I'm still not sold on the whole idea of an alien commander, or multiple commanders. I'm willing to be talked around on the alien commander front, but having multiple commanders seems like a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist. NS2 maps aren't that big. I don't think one commander would have any trouble keeping an eye on it all. The commander's role is diluted enough by marines being able to obtain their own weapons, having more than one commander would just dilute it further.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have you played the game?
Have any of you complaining played the game?
heres the thing why people are so hung up on this, in ns1, The ###### commander was basically "The Highlander" THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!!, The Commander role had a Prestige about, The Commander was the most important role in the game, and one of the best players in the game was the commander. Also whoever the commander was, he was the commander for the whole game(unless he was terribad and gets voted but mariens are dead by then anyways)
Ns2 is not like that anymore, commander take slightly less skill, sry its just fact of life, And there can be multiple comms, comms jump in jump out quickly. U can jump out of commchair here and get back in over there, for both sides. Or one person can be the upgrades comm who only jumps in the comm chair once every 4-5 mins to check on the upgrades, while the other comm is a medpack spammer. The dual comms is a great way to solve the issue of, 1 newb taking over a game by getting in the commchair first, now there can physically be a second comm to do the things the team needs when a comm goes rambo(yes comms can go rambo mode as well any ns1 player has seen it) As for alien comm, It's great, you can either be the "Babysitter" kind of comm, watchign the crags and whips and using the special abilities, or you can do what I do, jump in the hive quick, Drop all the necessary buildings and upgrades I can, then jump out and go fight with the team. It's less of a permanent role, and more of a support player now, and I've come to accept it.
<!--quoteo(post=1811370:date=Nov 28 2010, 01:27 PM:name=thecowsaysmoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (thecowsaysmoo @ Nov 28 2010, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811370"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->have you played the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. Quite a lot, actually. Usually it's a mad dash to get flamethrowers and GLs and then it's GG.
You are quite right in your assessment. I guess I am fixated on the commander being an essential part of the marine team. It's because, for me, this is <b>the</b> central tennant of the game. The commander is the single most important player, for better or for worse. Anything that reduces this importance is seen by me as a copout and a dilution of what made NS1 so great.
But I very much doubt the final game will pan out anything like you expect. Commanding will be a full time job. It won't be someone hopping into the chair to fire off a few upgrades occasionally. If the commander's role is reduced to "medic in the sky" I, and many other NS1 affectionados, will have no interest in playing NS2. Whatsoever.
<!--quoteo(post=1811378:date=Nov 28 2010, 04:51 AM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Nov 28 2010, 04:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811378"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes. Quite a lot, actually. Usually it's a mad dash to get flamethrowers and GLs and then it's GG.
You are quite right in your assessment. I guess I am fixated on the commander being an essential part of the marine team. It's because, for me, this is <b>the</b> central tennant of the game. The commander is the single most important player, for better or for worse. Anything that reduces this importance is seen by me as a copout and a dilution of what made NS1 so great.
But I very much doubt the final game will pan out anything like you expect. Commanding will be a full time job. It won't be someone hopping into the chair to fire off a few upgrades occasionally. If the commander's role is reduced to "medic in the sky" I, and many other NS1 affectionados, will have no interest in playing NS2. Whatsoever.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It took me a while to accept it as well, I was one of the guys flaming a few years back when they announced it, but I've gotten to the point where I kinda like it. While I do kinda agree with your "Medpack from the sky" thing and I've kinda experienced that, I think the alien comm is going to be awesome, Controlling the structures special abilities should be fun. The marine comm has definitely taken a backseat and is no longer as important, I think they have one last trick up their sleeve they haven't announced yet though, we will see fingers crossed.(hopefully they will implement some kind of punishment/reward system the marine comm controls)
<!--quoteo(post=1809890:date=Nov 24 2010, 07:41 PM:name=Solitario)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solitario @ Nov 24 2010, 07:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1809890"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah, I would remove alien commander and give the building part back to the gorge, but I don't think there is any hope, that they'll change this ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played NS 1 quite a bit and loved it. And the fact that there was a single commander that dropped all your buildings and such forced the team to work together to build or die. I see a multiple commander system as a double edged sword. On one hand if a n00b jumps in the com there is another for someone to pick up the slack. However, this could lead to break down in team work as a result of commanders fighting with each other. Or worse you could have multiple n00bs take com and screw everyone. Now I am not saying this will happen in competitive game play with pre assembled teams, but I could see this happening in pubs VERY often if the game picks up and alot of people start playing
Generally when other people jump into the CC it seems to be because they want something I'm not providing, so it's more helpful than a hindrance as I'm usually busy doing something and they go and do whatever I forgot without me having to stop.
Making commanding easier and also makes getting things as a marine easier.
<!--quoteo(post=1811429:date=Nov 28 2010, 04:12 AM:name=zombii?)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zombii? @ Nov 28 2010, 04:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811429"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I played NS 1 quite a bit and loved it. And the fact that there was a single commander that dropped all your buildings and such forced the team to work together to build or die. I see a multiple commander system as a double edged sword. On one hand if a n00b jumps in the com there is another for someone to pick up the slack. However, this could lead to break down in team work as a result of commanders fighting with each other. Or worse you could have multiple n00bs take com and screw everyone. Now I am not saying this will happen in competitive game play with pre assembled teams, but I could see this happening in pubs VERY often if the game picks up and alot of people start playing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
if a noob or griefer jumps in you're still screwed because you'll never get a 2nd cc up
Consider in NS1 the definition of 'noob' extends to everyone who isn't able to perfectly micromanage the entire team across the entire map and memorise the entire upgrade paths perfectly and provide personal medical and ammunition support to every player on the map.
I'm fairly sure most people who have played at least 1 RTS and at least 1 round of NS2 will realise they need to drop a second CC, the rest of the game is slightly more esoteric.
Now, lets not bring the marine commander to a topic about the alien commander. And I'll go whit +1 to give the building part for gorges to handle, and additionally give them the ability to control whips = no alien commander needed and gorge becomes important again.
<!--quoteo(post=1811433:date=Nov 28 2010, 03:17 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 28 2010, 03:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if a noob or griefer jumps in you're still screwed because you'll never get a 2nd cc up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see your point... but who knows maybe you might get lucky and you can get him to drop an extra com :D
<!--quoteo(post=1811433:date=Nov 28 2010, 04:17 AM:name=Wheeee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wheeee @ Nov 28 2010, 04:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811433"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if a noob or griefer jumps in you're still screwed because you'll never get a 2nd cc up<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You cannot ever solve people being bad at a game playing that game. There are people who suck at SC2 and play SC2. This is where vote eject and even servers banning people from commanding comes in.
Every other player depending on this one person to be good at the RTS game is necessary. Otherwise the responsibility (and thus fun) is diluted. And things get weird. If everyone were commanders to restrict griefing, we'd have to vote on every building placement or something like that.
<!--quoteo(post=1811474:date=Nov 28 2010, 02:43 PM:name=elmo33)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo33 @ Nov 28 2010, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811474"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now, lets not bring the marine commander to a topic about the alien commander. And I'll go whit +1 to give the building part for gorges to handle, and additionally give them the ability to control whips = no alien commander needed and gorge becomes important again.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's unnecessary. I like the direction UWE is taking with NS2 and I like the alien commander. The alien commander is a far better builder than the gorge could ever be with his top-down view of the map. The gorge will just need a new role, a different role...they will make him useful again. Do not be afraid of change. :)
Comments
For what it's worth, I'm still not sold on the whole idea of an alien commander, or multiple commanders. I'm willing to be talked around on the alien commander front, but having multiple commanders seems like a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist. NS2 maps aren't that big. I don't think one commander would have any trouble keeping an eye on it all. The commander's role is diluted enough by marines being able to obtain their own weapons, having more than one commander would just dilute it further.
--Scythe--
For what it's worth, I'm still not sold on the whole idea of an alien commander, or multiple commanders. I'm willing to be talked around on the alien commander front, but having multiple commanders seems like a bad solution to a problem that doesn't exist. NS2 maps aren't that big. I don't think one commander would have any trouble keeping an eye on it all. The commander's role is diluted enough by marines being able to obtain their own weapons, having more than one commander would just dilute it further.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have you played the game?
Have any of you complaining played the game?
heres the thing why people are so hung up on this, in ns1, The ###### commander was basically "The Highlander" THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!!!!!, The Commander role had a Prestige about, The Commander was the most important role in the game, and one of the best players in the game was the commander. Also whoever the commander was, he was the commander for the whole game(unless he was terribad and gets voted but mariens are dead by then anyways)
Ns2 is not like that anymore, commander take slightly less skill, sry its just fact of life, And there can be multiple comms, comms jump in jump out quickly. U can jump out of commchair here and get back in over there, for both sides. Or one person can be the upgrades comm who only jumps in the comm chair once every 4-5 mins to check on the upgrades, while the other comm is a medpack spammer. The dual comms is a great way to solve the issue of, 1 newb taking over a game by getting in the commchair first, now there can physically be a second comm to do the things the team needs when a comm goes rambo(yes comms can go rambo mode as well any ns1 player has seen it) As for alien comm, It's great, you can either be the "Babysitter" kind of comm, watchign the crags and whips and using the special abilities, or you can do what I do, jump in the hive quick, Drop all the necessary buildings and upgrades I can, then jump out and go fight with the team. It's less of a permanent role, and more of a support player now, and I've come to accept it.
Yes. Quite a lot, actually. Usually it's a mad dash to get flamethrowers and GLs and then it's GG.
You are quite right in your assessment. I guess I am fixated on the commander being an essential part of the marine team. It's because, for me, this is <b>the</b> central tennant of the game. The commander is the single most important player, for better or for worse. Anything that reduces this importance is seen by me as a copout and a dilution of what made NS1 so great.
But I very much doubt the final game will pan out anything like you expect. Commanding will be a full time job. It won't be someone hopping into the chair to fire off a few upgrades occasionally. If the commander's role is reduced to "medic in the sky" I, and many other NS1 affectionados, will have no interest in playing NS2. Whatsoever.
--Scythe--
You are quite right in your assessment. I guess I am fixated on the commander being an essential part of the marine team. It's because, for me, this is <b>the</b> central tennant of the game. The commander is the single most important player, for better or for worse. Anything that reduces this importance is seen by me as a copout and a dilution of what made NS1 so great.
But I very much doubt the final game will pan out anything like you expect. Commanding will be a full time job. It won't be someone hopping into the chair to fire off a few upgrades occasionally. If the commander's role is reduced to "medic in the sky" I, and many other NS1 affectionados, will have no interest in playing NS2. Whatsoever.
--Scythe--<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It took me a while to accept it as well, I was one of the guys flaming a few years back when they announced it, but I've gotten to the point where I kinda like it. While I do kinda agree with your "Medpack from the sky" thing and I've kinda experienced that, I think the alien comm is going to be awesome, Controlling the structures special abilities should be fun. The marine comm has definitely taken a backseat and is no longer as important, I think they have one last trick up their sleeve they haven't announced yet though, we will see fingers crossed.(hopefully they will implement some kind of punishment/reward system the marine comm controls)
but I don't think there is any hope, that they'll change this ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
Making commanding easier and also makes getting things as a marine easier.
if a noob or griefer jumps in you're still screwed because you'll never get a 2nd cc up
I'm fairly sure most people who have played at least 1 RTS and at least 1 round of NS2 will realise they need to drop a second CC, the rest of the game is slightly more esoteric.
+1
I see your point... but who knows maybe you might get lucky and you can get him to drop an extra com :D
You cannot ever solve people being bad at a game playing that game. There are people who suck at SC2 and play SC2. This is where vote eject and even servers banning people from commanding comes in.
Every other player depending on this one person to be good at the RTS game is necessary. Otherwise the responsibility (and thus fun) is diluted. And things get weird. If everyone were commanders to restrict griefing, we'd have to vote on every building placement or something like that.
It's unnecessary. I like the direction UWE is taking with NS2 and I like the alien commander. The alien commander is a far better builder than the gorge could ever be with his top-down view of the map. The gorge will just need a new role, a different role...they will make him useful again. Do not be afraid of change. :)