<!--quoteo(post=1811099:date=Nov 27 2010, 04:27 AM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 04:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's like Flayra has taken a Zen of Sudoku approach to NS2 of creating this nice, polished, accessible (and therefore) very popular and profitable gaming experience. they flattened the "learning curve" at the expense of the ability to distinguish yourself from the lower levels of skill,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How can you possibly come to this conclusion given what little experience you or anyone has with the game?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->at the expense of the dynamism which other users (thecowgoesmoo) elaborated in this thread. it's not an issue of tweaking variables to balance the game, it's the fundamentals of what made NS that have changed in NS2 beyond recognition (as the original thread topic is pointing out) and for the worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's really hard to take anything you say with any kind of credibility if you think NS2 is beyond recognition. You are just blowing things way out of proportion. What are NS1's core elements? Balanced, complex, fun gameplay with a mixture of RTS and FPS elements with two asymmetrical teams. I agree that the game takes a hit in the asymmetry department with the introduction of Alien commanders, but if the beta is any indication, the playstyle of the Alien commander will be very different than that of the Marine commander. Let's not forget Power Grids and DI either. Changing NS2 beyond recognition? Please. Get your head out of your ass. Recognize that your particular distaste for a feature is not the deciding factor here.
I realize that the introduction of Alien commanders isn't the only factor in pushing NS2 farther away from NS1, but I've read those arguments, and it's the same for all of them. Blown out of proportion. Massive hyperbole and wild, baseless accusations. There's such a thing as level-headed criticism as to the direction NS2 is taking, but yours is not it.
<!--quoteo(post=1811099:date=Nov 27 2010, 08:27 AM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 08:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811099"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you added this while i was writing so i didn't respond, but i've thought this too. NS2 will depend upon an entirely new group of players since the NS1 fans (and not necessarily just vets) are going to be disappointed by the sweeping changes. that'd be fine and all, but why take money from fans of the original to make a game so different that it's guaranteed to alienate a large segment of your original fans/people who donated because they liked the original game?
it's like Flayra has taken a Zen of Sudoku approach to NS2 of creating this nice, polished, accessible (and therefore) very popular and profitable gaming experience. they flattened the "learning curve" at the expense of the ability to distinguish yourself from the lower levels of skill, at the expense of the dynamism which other users (thecowgoesmoo) elaborated in this thread. it's not an issue of tweaking variables to balance the game, it's the fundamentals of what made NS that have changed in NS2 beyond recognition (as the original thread topic is pointing out) and for the worse.
It's more NS than any other game you're likely to find, but it's also a much better game, as it will appeal to more people.
A game has no point other than entertainment, if it doesn't entertain many people it isn't a very good game, and it also isn't a very good business idea and games are certainly a business.
UWE is made of people who love making games, and they want to be able to do it as a job, which means they have to make popular games, otherwise they won't get any money for them and then they have to go out and get horrible jobs. Asking them to make an unprofitable game is unreasonable. And also self defeating because if they just make NS1 again, it won't bring back any of the wonderful stuff the vets seem to go on about, because that time has come and passed, a new engine won't make it come back, but a new game might make some new wonderful stuff happen. From the looks of it it already is.
as an old school ns1 gamer, who hated the idea of an alien comm originally, it's not <i>that</i> bad. And really it makes the game better, as marines wont constantly be saying, oh well u only won cause teams were unfair, even when teams have same amount of players. As an alien player who only went marine to play the commander role, I kind of like having it. And imo, the commander role has been somewhat diminished since ns1, it is much easier, so really the commander can be a fade, and just spend a couple quick seconds in the comm chair getting something done and you can hop in and out very easily form any hive, as well multiple people can be the commander, making the idea of one person ruining the game with their terrible commanding a thing of the past.
<!--quoteo(post=1811105:date=Nov 27 2010, 03:56 AM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Nov 27 2010, 03:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811105"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I only see 2 or 3 saying that, could be more, like 10, from a base of 10,000 pre-orders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
<!--quoteo(post=1811108:date=Nov 27 2010, 04:23 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 27 2010, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's [NS2] more NS than any other game you're likely to find, but it's also a much better game, as it will appeal to more people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's also a much better game, as it will appeal to more people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> no comment
<!--quoteo(post=1811116:date=Nov 27 2010, 05:46 AM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
no comment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
honestly, there is a valid point considering that marines were essentially playing 5v6 in the field (which meant that competitive balance and pub balance were irreconcilable; during small games the marines would be at a clear disadvantage, while in larger games having 1 less player due to comm wasn't as big a handicap). I wasn't too thrilled about alien comm, but I think it can work, as long as asymmetry is introduced elsewhere to make up for it. What I don't like is that the alien comm gameplay is completely separated from the alien team. right now you can just do whatever and everyone else will ignore it.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
actually i think that is not thaaat bad.
The aliens where already in ns2 more a individual player team. Now the commander sets the guidelines and supports the team where he can. I'm not saying that i would not like more control as the alien commander, just saying that it does not have to be a bad thing
If you want NS1, go play NS1. Was said since the beginning that NS2 is a completely new game, with a new concept.
And I keep what I said, the ones wanting NS1 type of game are extremely few and could be covered with no more than 2 modded servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1811116:date=Nov 27 2010, 06:46 AM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL You need to insult everyone that love this new gameplay to make a point. You forget that almost all of us came from NS1, and played it since it was originally released. We passed all the changes the game faced and no matter what you think at start you'll love it after. I was not happy with some changes on NS1, but then I found the good side of it and enjoyed the game a lot more.
You call for an open mind, but you are completely closed.
Forget to add:
The game is in Beta, and many things will change when all the features are added and balance become an issue. Right now both teams start with loads of resources, and an alien commander can cap easily 2 hives at start and then a third one, making a total of 4. I know it because I did it. Same for Marines, you sent the MACs just to build the CC and make the upgrades on the armoury. Instant GL. Did it too.
When the game is finished this will not happen, both teams will start with less resources and will cost more to secure a section.
So, don't say things are bad just because the game is not finished and need a lot of work. Who knows, perhaps when it's finished it will look more the same as NS1 than we can see now.
<!--quoteo(post=1811116:date=Nov 27 2010, 07:46 PM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
no comment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Soooo... Where are you getting this information from? Too me it sounds like your opinion stretched out, and honestly it's looking pretty thin.
My problem with NS1 is that Marines needed to have one player willing to help the team and aload of other people willing to follow...
When you were aliens you needed alot of the team willing to go Gorge and at least build a resource tower. You join aliens and everyone just wants to reserve their resources for going Fade and then as soon as they die, they declare the game is over and everyone readyrooms. (worst case scenario?).
We're moaning about something different yet we don't know the entire list of things to come or how it will play out... I'm confident its going to be better, if I want to play NS1 then i'll load up Steam and start playing it now. Alll you obviously want is Natural Selection with higher res textures and models. Even a direct port would change somewhat!
I don't see why these end of the world topics need to be made when so little of the gameplay is there and featuresets. If they presented Marine commanding and FPS to you before NS1, would you have accepted that it would be good?
<!--quoteo(post=1811129:date=Nov 27 2010, 01:47 PM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Nov 27 2010, 01:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you want NS1, go play NS1. And I keep what I said, the ones wanting NS1 type of game are extremely few and could be covered with no more than 2 modded servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You would be surprised how many. None of my "friend circle" have yet to prefer NS2(changes) over NS.
@Chris
NS1 Mod could bring back new players and hopefully revive competitive scene.
@Topic
I dont see how people can enjoy alien commanding right now, its like solving 4 piece puzzle with 1 hour limit and rest is idle.
I dont see how people can enjoy alien commanding right now, its like solving 4 piece puzzle with 1 hour limit and rest is idle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1811135:date=Nov 27 2010, 07:18 AM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Nov 27 2010, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811135"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS1 Mod could bring back new players and hopefully revive competitive scene.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would we need an NS1 mod to revive the competitive scene? If you're going to make a mod that turns NS2 into NS1, why not just play NS1 then? What do you actually want?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont see how people can enjoy alien commanding right now, its like solving 4 piece puzzle with 1 hour limit and rest is idle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, but a pointless observation. Do I really need to remind you that it's not finished?
<!--quoteo(post=1811116:date=Nov 27 2010, 05:46 AM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
no comment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's pretty clear from your posts that you don't actually have any objective arguments, just your opinion. Which is fine, but don't think your opinion is fact. It's not.
<!--quoteo(post=1810198:date=Nov 25 2010, 01:11 AM:name=yourbonesakin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yourbonesakin @ Nov 25 2010, 01:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1810198"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only the terrible ones do, like Dawn of War (which is so badly balanced it's probably brought up in Digipen as an example of terrible game design).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You take that back right now
<!--quoteo(post=1811159:date=Nov 27 2010, 07:40 AM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 27 2010, 07:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it's pretty clear from your posts that you don't actually have any objective arguments, just your opinion. Which is fine, but don't think your opinion is fact. It's not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> im not interested in your (ppl like you but youre a perfect example) thoughts so i go out of my way (yes it is deliberate) to not post in a way that you can clip out every sentence and reply to each thing in a huge annoying wall of text (i dont even read your replies except the short ones lol) this goes for most people here. lots of people have articulated what's wrong and dealt with idiotic fanboys with a contrarian-complex who refute and have answers for everything, which i dont care about. but clearly you are agitated into feeling a need to respond to them, which i like
I didnt read the whole topic so no idea if some idea similar to mine has been thrown out there, but here we go.
Make gorge the alien commander whitout the commander view, tie the alien upgrades to chamber's just like in ns1, let the gorge drop the hives which then gives you more and more upgrades. Maybe the gorge could use the chambers which would bring a gui like in armory which he could select upgrades to research, or just let them be researched automatically, tied to the number of that type chamber dropped.
Whips could be moved by gorges too, just let them select them from their maps and issue a move order whitout needing to jump into a hive, imo it would make the gorge more important again, as it stands now hes pretty useless apart from supporting whit heal and dropping some hydras. The commander for the aliens wouldnt just need to sit in a hive, but instead he would be on the field building, researching, moving the whips and of course providing combat support.
Come on, whats more epic than a gorge commanding army of whips on the field.
<!--quoteo(post=1811199:date=Nov 27 2010, 12:13 PM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 12:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811199"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself."
<!--quoteo(post=1811168:date=Nov 27 2010, 09:33 AM:name=elmo33)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo33 @ Nov 27 2010, 09:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didnt read the whole topic so no idea if some idea similar to mine has been thrown out there, but here we go.
Make gorge the alien commander whitout the commander view, tie the alien upgrades to chamber's just like in ns1, let the gorge drop the hives which then gives you more and more upgrades. Maybe the gorge could use the chambers which would bring a gui like in armory which he could select upgrades to research, or just let them be researched automatically, tied to the number of that type chamber dropped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds exactly like NS1...except there's only one Gorge per hive?
<!--quoteo(post=1811158:date=Nov 27 2010, 03:38 PM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 27 2010, 03:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811158"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would we need an NS1 mod to revive the competitive scene? If you're going to make a mod that turns NS2 into NS1, why not just play NS1 then? What do you actually want?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because kids these days tend to go for better graphics, nobody wants to test a 8 year old game. The gameplay is top5 of all of time, too many are just not ready to start old game not to mention chances are even old players get back to the game. What I do want is activity.
<!--quoteo(post=1811208:date=Nov 27 2010, 12:47 PM:name=TrC)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrC @ Nov 27 2010, 12:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811208"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because kids these days tend to go for better graphics, nobody wants to test a 8 year old game. The gameplay is top5 of all of time, too many are just not ready to start old game not to mention chances are even old players get back to the game. What I do want is activity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're assuming right off the bat that NS2 won't be capable of sustaining a competitive scene?
<!--quoteo(post=1811212:date=Nov 27 2010, 07:59 PM:name=Donner & Blitzen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Donner & Blitzen @ Nov 27 2010, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811212"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you're assuming right off the bat that NS2 won't be capable of sustaining a competitive scene?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Given the currect direction even if it did happen I doubt it would last long.
For NS1 go and play that. NS2 is a new game, new stuff on it, new gameplay. If you can't or you refuse to learn a new gameplay, what are you doing playing any kind of games???
I had see this argument on any game, from FPS, RTS and even browser games. And what is the result? Everyone enjoy the new gameplay once they play it.
I love to see people talking about being open minded but they are completely closed to new concepts. For the competitive scene, I see NS2 a better game for it. It has a lot of new way to compete. Is not a one strategy game, now you can have a far more complex gameplay which mean a lot more fun.
The alien comm is the supreme supporter for the team, dropping Crags on strategic positions, and Whips helping defend. Good commanders can win a game just doing support. You don't sit and wait, you participate on all the gameplay. It is your duty to give the support your team needs, and Crags/Whips are the key for it. Sneak Crags (and some Whips) inside marine spawn to help them stay alive, Umbra, Heal, Umbra, Heal.
An alien comm has an active participation during the full game, and if you get bored, leave the comm and rage attack.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1811318:date=Nov 28 2010, 12:03 AM:name=PaiSand)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PaiSand @ Nov 28 2010, 12:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->An alien comm has an active participation during the full game, and if you get bored, leave the comm and rage attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This is probably the best way to describe the new <b>Hive Mind</b><!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, nature will find a way ay? :P
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Alien commander, pfft what have you lot been smoking... Aliens do not have a commander!
Comments
How can you possibly come to this conclusion given what little experience you or anyone has with the game?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->at the expense of the dynamism which other users (thecowgoesmoo) elaborated in this thread. it's not an issue of tweaking variables to balance the game, it's the fundamentals of what made NS that have changed in NS2 beyond recognition (as the original thread topic is pointing out) and for the worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's really hard to take anything you say with any kind of credibility if you think NS2 is beyond recognition. You are just blowing things way out of proportion. What are NS1's core elements? Balanced, complex, fun gameplay with a mixture of RTS and FPS elements with two asymmetrical teams. I agree that the game takes a hit in the asymmetry department with the introduction of Alien commanders, but if the beta is any indication, the playstyle of the Alien commander will be very different than that of the Marine commander. Let's not forget Power Grids and DI either. Changing NS2 beyond recognition? Please. Get your head out of your ass. Recognize that your particular distaste for a feature is not the deciding factor here.
I realize that the introduction of Alien commanders isn't the only factor in pushing NS2 farther away from NS1, but I've read those arguments, and it's the same for all of them. Blown out of proportion. Massive hyperbole and wild, baseless accusations. There's such a thing as level-headed criticism as to the direction NS2 is taking, but yours is not it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://i53.tinypic.com/1j8cop.jpg" target="_blank">@ donner</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not at all. I'm quite pleased and intrigued with the way NS2 is shaping up so far.
it's like Flayra has taken a Zen of Sudoku approach to NS2 of creating this nice, polished, accessible (and therefore) very popular and profitable gaming experience. they flattened the "learning curve" at the expense of the ability to distinguish yourself from the lower levels of skill, at the expense of the dynamism which other users (thecowgoesmoo) elaborated in this thread. it's not an issue of tweaking variables to balance the game, it's the fundamentals of what made NS that have changed in NS2 beyond recognition (as the original thread topic is pointing out) and for the worse.
<a href="http://i53.tinypic.com/1j8cop.jpg" target="_blank">@ donner</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's more NS than any other game you're likely to find, but it's also a much better game, as it will appeal to more people.
A game has no point other than entertainment, if it doesn't entertain many people it isn't a very good game, and it also isn't a very good business idea and games are certainly a business.
UWE is made of people who love making games, and they want to be able to do it as a job, which means they have to make popular games, otherwise they won't get any money for them and then they have to go out and get horrible jobs. Asking them to make an unprofitable game is unreasonable. And also self defeating because if they just make NS1 again, it won't bring back any of the wonderful stuff the vets seem to go on about, because that time has come and passed, a new engine won't make it come back, but a new game might make some new wonderful stuff happen. From the looks of it it already is.
I give up and say... talk ###### all day i dont care anymore - its a waste of time talking to some of you. And i suggest UWE to do it too.
Go play your 11year old games, and leave Britney alone.
i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
<!--quoteo(post=1811108:date=Nov 27 2010, 04:23 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Nov 27 2010, 04:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811108"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's [NS2] more NS than any other game you're likely to find, but it's also a much better game, as it will appeal to more people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it's also a much better game, as it will appeal to more people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no comment
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
no comment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
honestly, there is a valid point considering that marines were essentially playing 5v6 in the field (which meant that competitive balance and pub balance were irreconcilable; during small games the marines would be at a clear disadvantage, while in larger games having 1 less player due to comm wasn't as big a handicap). I wasn't too thrilled about alien comm, but I think it can work, as long as asymmetry is introduced elsewhere to make up for it. What I don't like is that the alien comm gameplay is completely separated from the alien team. right now you can just do whatever and everyone else will ignore it.
The aliens where already in ns2 more a individual player team. Now the commander sets the guidelines and supports the team where he can.
I'm not saying that i would not like more control as the alien commander, just saying that it does not have to be a bad thing
Was said since the beginning that NS2 is a completely new game, with a new concept.
And I keep what I said, the ones wanting NS1 type of game are extremely few and could be covered with no more than 2 modded servers.
<!--quoteo(post=1811116:date=Nov 27 2010, 06:46 AM:name=aleph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aleph @ Nov 27 2010, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i said it in another post, "i'm amazed how many people need to actually play the game to realize that it's a letdown"
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LOL
You need to insult everyone that love this new gameplay to make a point.
You forget that almost all of us came from NS1, and played it since it was originally released. We passed all the changes the game faced and no matter what you think at start you'll love it after.
I was not happy with some changes on NS1, but then I found the good side of it and enjoyed the game a lot more.
You call for an open mind, but you are completely closed.
Forget to add:
The game is in Beta, and many things will change when all the features are added and balance become an issue. Right now both teams start with loads of resources, and an alien commander can cap easily 2 hives at start and then a third one, making a total of 4. I know it because I did it.
Same for Marines, you sent the MACs just to build the CC and make the upgrades on the armoury. Instant GL. Did it too.
When the game is finished this will not happen, both teams will start with less resources and will cost more to secure a section.
So, don't say things are bad just because the game is not finished and need a lot of work. Who knows, perhaps when it's finished it will look more the same as NS1 than we can see now.
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
no comment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soooo... Where are you getting this information from? Too me it sounds like your opinion stretched out, and honestly it's looking pretty thin.
When you were aliens you needed alot of the team willing to go Gorge and at least build a resource tower. You join aliens and everyone just wants to reserve their resources for going Fade and then as soon as they die, they declare the game is over and everyone readyrooms. (worst case scenario?).
We're moaning about something different yet we don't know the entire list of things to come or how it will play out... I'm confident its going to be better, if I want to play NS1 then i'll load up Steam and start playing it now. Alll you obviously want is Natural Selection with higher res textures and models. Even a direct port would change somewhat!
I don't see why these end of the world topics need to be made when so little of the gameplay is there and featuresets. If they presented Marine commanding and FPS to you before NS1, would you have accepted that it would be good?
Can't wait for NS2!
And I keep what I said, the ones wanting NS1 type of game are extremely few and could be covered with no more than 2 modded servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You would be surprised how many. None of my "friend circle" have yet to prefer NS2(changes) over NS.
@Chris
NS1 Mod could bring back new players and hopefully revive competitive scene.
@Topic
I dont see how people can enjoy alien commanding right now, its like solving 4 piece puzzle with 1 hour limit and rest is idle.
I dont see how people can enjoy alien commanding right now, its like solving 4 piece puzzle with 1 hour limit and rest is idle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
agreed, sadly enough.
Why would we need an NS1 mod to revive the competitive scene? If you're going to make a mod that turns NS2 into NS1, why not just play NS1 then? What do you actually want?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I dont see how people can enjoy alien commanding right now, its like solving 4 piece puzzle with 1 hour limit and rest is idle.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed, but a pointless observation. Do I really need to remind you that it's not finished?
it was already there if you read the news updates and had an active mind and thought about what the changes meant. there are already many, and will be more and more posts like this: a person who dropped NS for years, came back for NS2 without giving it much thought and with only a glimmer of NS1 in his mind, and finds the new game lacking (lacking what? for reasons elaborated in this thread for starters). there will be countless more who just don't care enough to register and post, they will just stop playing. that's how games work. posters here are disproportionally drunk on the koolaid and aren't a representation of the majority of on-the-field games.
no comment<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it's pretty clear from your posts that you don't actually have any objective arguments, just your opinion. Which is fine, but don't think your opinion is fact. It's not.
You take that back right now
im not interested in your (ppl like you but youre a perfect example) thoughts so i go out of my way (yes it is deliberate) to not post in a way that you can clip out every sentence and reply to each thing in a huge annoying wall of text (i dont even read your replies except the short ones lol) this goes for most people here. lots of people have articulated what's wrong and dealt with idiotic fanboys with a contrarian-complex who refute and have answers for everything, which i dont care about. but clearly you are agitated into feeling a need to respond to them, which i like
Huh? What?
Make gorge the alien commander whitout the commander view, tie the alien upgrades to chamber's just like in ns1, let the gorge drop the hives which then gives you more and more upgrades. Maybe the gorge could use the chambers which would bring a gui like in armory which he could select upgrades to research, or just let them be researched automatically, tied to the number of that type chamber dropped.
Whips could be moved by gorges too, just let them select them from their maps and issue a move order whitout needing to jump into a hive, imo it would make the gorge more important again, as it stands now hes pretty useless apart from supporting whit heal and dropping some hydras. The commander for the aliens wouldnt just need to sit in a hive, but instead he would be on the field building, researching, moving the whips and of course providing combat support.
Come on, whats more epic than a gorge commanding army of whips on the field.
"others may hate you, but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them, and then you destroy yourself."
-Richard Milhous Nixon
-Richard Milhous Nixon<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay.
<!--quoteo(post=1811168:date=Nov 27 2010, 09:33 AM:name=elmo33)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elmo33 @ Nov 27 2010, 09:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1811168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I didnt read the whole topic so no idea if some idea similar to mine has been thrown out there, but here we go.
Make gorge the alien commander whitout the commander view, tie the alien upgrades to chamber's just like in ns1, let the gorge drop the hives which then gives you more and more upgrades. Maybe the gorge could use the chambers which would bring a gui like in armory which he could select upgrades to research, or just let them be researched automatically, tied to the number of that type chamber dropped.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds exactly like NS1...except there's only one Gorge per hive?
Because kids these days tend to go for better graphics, nobody wants to test a 8 year old game. The gameplay is top5 of all of time, too many are just not ready to start old game not to mention chances are even old players get back to the game. What I do want is activity.
So you're assuming right off the bat that NS2 won't be capable of sustaining a competitive scene?
That sounds exactly like NS1...except there's only one Gorge per hive?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is quite true actually, but I think it fits much better than having a separate alien commander, and no, gorge numbers shouldnt be limited.
Given the currect direction even if it did happen I doubt it would last long.
NS2 is not NS1. Period.
For NS1 go and play that. NS2 is a new game, new stuff on it, new gameplay. If you can't or you refuse to learn a new gameplay, what are you doing playing any kind of games???
I had see this argument on any game, from FPS, RTS and even browser games. And what is the result? Everyone enjoy the new gameplay once they play it.
I love to see people talking about being open minded but they are completely closed to new concepts.
For the competitive scene, I see NS2 a better game for it. It has a lot of new way to compete. Is not a one strategy game, now you can have a far more complex gameplay which mean a lot more fun.
The alien comm is the supreme supporter for the team, dropping Crags on strategic positions, and Whips helping defend. Good commanders can win a game just doing support. You don't sit and wait, you participate on all the gameplay. It is your duty to give the support your team needs, and Crags/Whips are the key for it. Sneak Crags (and some Whips) inside marine spawn to help them stay alive, Umbra, Heal, Umbra, Heal.
An alien comm has an active participation during the full game, and if you get bored, leave the comm and rage attack.
This is probably the best way to describe the new <b>Hive Mind</b><!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, nature will find a way ay? :P
<!--coloro:#FFA500--><span style="color:#FFA500"><!--/coloro-->*<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->Alien commander, pfft what have you lot been smoking... Aliens do not have a commander!