Didn't read all posts.... But i agree with the OP about the somewhat CoD-ish mechanism. The fade blink should be working like it did in 1.0-1.04 (Aim - teleport - face the wall you were aiming at) but not like it is now. Tbh i didn't even realize that there was an auto-aim mechanic (i thought it was a bug due to extreme lag and because i barely played the fade on my permanently crashing pc) until i saw the introduction by NS2HD. The auto-aim/face the nearest marine feature can't seriously stay in the game. Imo it would just cause trouble. Blink should be used to escape a horde of marines or just a fast movement feature too, not just for attacking. I would be really pissed if i wanted to just cross a room and end up involuntarily facing the wrong direction just because there was a marine somewhere near of my crosshair. Also the fade ghost model should be replaced by a simple dot.
<!--quoteo(post=1814808:date=Dec 10 2010, 05:35 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 10 2010, 05:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you people did the same thing in ns1 with every class... if youre getting owned by one fade then your team is bad and deserves to lose. this thread is about crying because x player cant solo a fade. you shouldnt be able to, thats the point of a team orientated game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What if I'm the one doing the owning? Teleporting straight into marine base and swiping away at marines and structures until I'm below half hp and instantly teleport out.
Yeah I'm largely basing this on experience from playing as alien, I don't bother playing marines because of how hideously useless they are at the moment. When I can happily teleport around stabbing people in marine base without really looking at my health, then teleport out when I turn red, something is wrong.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
i usually play alient, but when playing marine i own the fades with the shotgun. 3 shots and he is down, and since he wants to get close range anway, it's not that hard. you just have to move smarter than the fade.
<!--quoteo(post=1814835:date=Dec 10 2010, 11:29 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 10 2010, 11:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I'm largely basing this on experience from playing as alien, I don't bother playing marines because of how hideously useless they are at the moment. When I can happily teleport around stabbing people in marine base without really looking at my health, then teleport out when I turn red, something is wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but your point is moot because you can do that without the current teleport mechanics. fades have been able to do exactly that since ns1. blink in, swipe, blink out. 90% you could rinse and repeat. and no, this wasnt combat games. any good fade player could attest to this.
<!--quoteo(post=1814832:date=Dec 10 2010, 11:17 AM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Dec 10 2010, 11:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if I'm the one doing the owning? Teleporting straight into marine base and swiping away at marines and structures until I'm below half hp and instantly teleport out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
correct me if im wrong but pathways can still be blocked and fades arent nearly as powerful as they were in ns1
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited December 2010
Are you lot seriously saying the Fade is overpowered when the current engine build obviously has an easier time tracking melee then ranged weapons... Even with the current lag a shotgun can take down a fade...
<!--quoteo(post=1814835:date=Dec 10 2010, 08:29 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 10 2010, 08:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I'm largely basing this on experience from playing as alien, I don't bother playing marines because of how hideously useless they are at the moment. When I can happily teleport around stabbing people in marine base without really looking at my health, then teleport out when I turn red, something is wrong.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes something is wrong, the hitreg and generally bad performance. Once the game gets smoother I can guarantee that if the damages of the weapons and lifeform hps are pretty much the same as in NS1, you wont be able to make the "focus" swipe, or stay near them for longer than 2 seconds max whitout dying when theres maybe 3 marines around and atleast one has a shotgun and they know how to aim, then again its not hard to hit stationary target.
And what comes to my suggestions, I think Bacillus pretty much nailed them already.
<!--quoteo(post=1814808:date=Dec 10 2010, 05:35 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 10 2010, 05:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814808"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this thread is about crying because x player cant solo a fade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe, but the OP was about the feel of the controls and not whatever you're trying to say. People take that as an excuse to ###### about the class being underpowered or overpowered but in fact what we should be talking about is why blink feels like firing a guided weapon rather than controlling a living character.
<!--quoteo(post=1814865:date=Dec 10 2010, 04:23 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 10 2010, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->what we should be talking about is why blink feels like firing a guided weapon rather than controlling a living character.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1814838:date=Dec 10 2010, 06:46 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 10 2010, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814838"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but your point is moot because you can do that without the current teleport mechanics. fades have been able to do exactly that since ns1. blink in, swipe, blink out. 90% you could rinse and repeat. and no, this wasnt combat games. any good fade player could attest to this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1814865:date=Dec 10 2010, 02:23 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Dec 10 2010, 02:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814865"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe, but the OP was about the feel of the controls and not whatever you're trying to say. People take that as an excuse to ###### about the class being underpowered or overpowered but in fact what we should be talking about is why blink feels like firing a guided weapon rather than controlling a living character.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this i can somewhat agree with. Ive already stated I dont like the autoaim of the blink. blink shouldnt be doing aiming at all. also I havent been able to check, but does the distance of the blink effect adren?
<!--quoteo(post=1814874:date=Dec 10 2010, 03:27 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 10 2010, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes and it's retarded in NS1 as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is just your opinion though. imo fades should be able to do this. they should be able to attack better than skulks but not have the overwhelming power of an onos. Fades arent a game ender. A fade mid game can stall or defeat a bad team, but a good team can either upgrade and survive a fade hit and run attack or survive till kharaa can get onos.
I didn't read the whole thread, but in the progress page you can read, that they are planning to add a "skilled based movement that is not BH". And I like this. They do their own thing. ------------
One question: I am able to BH in Quake an CS, but is it really possible in NS1 without any scripting? I did never manage to do it. -------------
My opinion to the topic: I hate 12 year old bunnyhopping rulers. It should not be about your stats, it should be about the teamplay. Older people with slower reflexes should be able to win with intelligence.
And what I also hate are fckin console commands that give an advantage if well used. I don't have the time to find and test the best values. I have a girlfriend and a job, dammit. I want to start a game, play it and get skill by playing. Not by configuring and not by scripting.
And the last hate goes to CoD-like games; yes, they are crap. But I would never compare them to NS2 - why should I? I'm sure unknown worlds would not have any problems to get money from a bigger company - but they don't want to. Because they want a game that they like to play; not a game that any marketing guy wants to be ported to the xbox or whatever. Seriously, a teleporting Alien in an online-FPS is a fckin great thought. Let them try it out. -------------
The Fade-Hitbox from NS1: It was far behind the Fade. Every second time I died I was already around the corner. Fun playing anyways, I don't know which version of Blink is the better one.
<!--quoteo(post=1814807:date=Dec 10 2010, 05:34 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 10 2010, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814807"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->fade is fine
crying nubs are crying<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fades lost their speed and quickness. Its largely due to two click blink method. Sure the effect is amazing, and I agree it is but it costs the fade its one thing is known for, speed. These two clicks commands reduce person's reactions, thus making him slow.
How will fade catch jet-packer now? more importantly how will he catch moving target in general? fades became grounded alien, aren't as flexible as they are in ns1 at all. Blinking into vents, and blinking at moving targets in general is very slow process, and once marines tech up this slowness will just get those fades killed.
We need to figure out how to reduce the clicking, and this problem will be solved.
edit
watch 30 or so seconds of this video <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI</a> it should kind of show aiming and moving target how big of an issue it is. Now if he had jetpacker, it would be even worse for the fade.
I think the blink should be a one-click teleport, like they had in the CS 1.6 WC3/FT mod. Instant teleport to the surface you're aiming at. If you aim at a marine, you land next to him. Keep the blue smoke and add a very short cooldown, like a second or two + the adrenaline requirement.
<!--quoteo(post=1814839:date=Dec 10 2010, 07:47 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 10 2010, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814839"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->correct me if im wrong but pathways can still be blocked<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, you can blink through the tiny gap between marines, or failing that above their heads will do just fine. You no longer need to slip your hitbox between them. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and fades arent nearly as powerful as they were in ns1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Far as I can tell the numbers for them are exactly the same, for the moment. I'm sure it's just meant as a placeholder, though... I'll just drop the subject in any case, there're too many variables that are just put in to make the game playable rather than balanced, not least res flow - do remember that having personal res to spend on going fade means you don't waste a potential hive or wall of lame.
Still doesn't make sense to me how double clicking it quickly is really very different from a single click. Also you can use the first click as a prep in advance when you know you'll be blinking (decide not to blink, just swipe instead).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ive already stated I dont like the autoaim of the blink. blink shouldnt be doing aiming at all. also I havent been able to check, but does the distance of the blink effect adren?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This. Nothing should be aiming for you on pc.
I don't think distance affects the adren use, but that sounds like an excellent way of limiting blink spam. Rather than only allowing 2-3 blinks, have adrenaline use allow 4 or 5 at minimum distance and then only 1.5-2 blinks at max distance
<!--quoteo(post=1814877:date=Dec 10 2010, 10:40 PM:name=VeNeM)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VeNeM @ Dec 10 2010, 10:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814877"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->this is just your opinion though. imo fades should be able to do this. they should be able to attack better than skulks but not have the overwhelming power of an onos. Fades arent a game ender. A fade mid game can stall or defeat a bad team, but a good team can either upgrade and survive a fade hit and run attack or survive till kharaa can get onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think making aliens more powerful than marines one on one is a good idea, because then they just become stupidly overpowered if you get half a team of decent players.
You can't scale marines exponentially to counter that either, because if marines in a group become more powerful than aliens, either the entire marine team would annihilate the entire alien team, or the marines would be horribly underpowered in anything other than a large group, and it doesn't scale with different server sizes either, if marines need six man groups to beat 12 aliens for example, the aliens would be underpowered on 12 player servers, whereas marines would be overpowered on 24 player servers.
Additionally, why would you make the game crap for lots of players just so one player can run around killing people constantly? That is not an efficient use of your players, annoying many players to appeal to one is obviously stupid.
The only scalable and sensible option is to balance one alien against one marine, make the classes different roles, rather than simple straight upgrades.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Can I make a "why so serious" joke here? <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/youreallwrong.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<!--quoteo(post=1814899:date=Dec 10 2010, 05:33 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Dec 10 2010, 05:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1814899"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think making aliens more powerful than marines one on one is a good idea, because then they just become stupidly overpowered if you get half a team of decent players.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but the simple fact is that kharaa is already stronger than frontiersman one on one depending on the situation of course. thats the balance. a good skulk should be able to kill a lone marine is caught in close quarters rather quickly. thats the the discouragement of ramboing.
skulk > single marine (most of the time) fade >> single marine 90% of the time Onos >>>>> single marine 99.99999% of the time
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't scale marines exponentially to counter that either, because if marines in a group become more powerful than aliens, either the entire marine team would annihilate the entire alien team, or the marines would be horribly underpowered in anything other than a large group, and it doesn't scale with different server sizes either, if marines need six man groups to beat 12 aliens for example, the aliens would be underpowered on 12 player servers, whereas marines would be overpowered on 24 player servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you just desribed ns basically. one on one marines cant beat the kharaa, so they hold and tech up to become a better killing force. aliens are defending with chambers, marines get grenades and flamers to counter aliens get stronger attackers, marines get dual wielding machine guns, jetpacks and heavy armor
the whole premise of the marine team is to attack as a group, I dont know if youre confusing ns with combat or not. in combat marines usually attack alone. not so much in ns mode. and if the kharaa have 12 then the marines should have at the least 11 give or take an extra commander. in which case in the final game its up to kharaa strategy to win. a single fade wont dominate. a single marine wont dominate and the better team should win most of the time. its not up the the devs to skill balance because in every game there will be a few players that are better than the rest.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Additionally, why would you make the game crap for lots of players just so one player can run around killing people constantly? That is not an efficient use of your players, annoying many players to appeal to one is obviously stupid.
The only scalable and sensible option is to balance one alien against one marine, make the classes different roles, rather than simple straight upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who says the game is crap to some players, currently the marines are a bit overpowered but have long tech times to compensate. this is mostly due to the flamethrower being completely bugged and blinding. playing as a team may annoy you, maybe cod type games would be more to your liking?
will blink problem be addressed in the next build? or do developers have other ideas to fix it?
current problem, fades are slow with two button blink. Hard to catch moving target or getting into vents and aiming issues.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI</a> - watch 30 seconds of this video to understand the problem <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w8hXW8ZofE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w8hXW8ZofE</a> - watch few mins in this video to see more examples
basically, fades lost their speed - something they largely are known for. while blink effect is amazing, it cost the fade its speed.
Skulk: Yes there is no bhop, but u still can jump + you got leap (and upgraded leap bug -> jump+leap .... hope this gets removed soon) Maps are more complex and got more stuff to hide/dodge bullets and wait for the reloads etc pp.
Fade: Well if you blink to a marine and fail at aiming, you should blink away and try again... Have you ever seen a fade in ns1 blinking into marines and then running after them for almost 30s...? NEVER. you blink, hit(~4-6hits max/kill) -> blink away. if you blink, then miss - you dont stay and hit until you or your enemy dies... -> you have to blink away and try again.
Bhop etc in ns1 wasnt really hard to master if you knew how... you will have to search some time to fully understand this engine glitch... buts its not really skill.
So many fps after ns1, enemy territory, cs & Co. for me... I never missed bhop. (ok at first in my younger wannabe progamer times i believed this is important, because - you know... all the other progamer kids said so) But this is false... its your mindset and how you work with the things you are given nothing more - nothing less.
Is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered a mechanic the average joe didnt even heard of? Or is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered the easy mechanics the average joe can handle too - but it happend that you are just smarter/aimed faster/better reaction and reading of his tactic?
Bhop etc: This mechanics are on the same list with config tweaking, model/sound/texture replacing and the rest of this unfair advantage stuff noobs care so much about. <u><b> Srsly... you ppl should stop playing fps and go in some other genres like rpgs... you want advantages(because you spend so much more time than average joe) - there you can get them.</b></u>
And yes, i would play with consoles - if the get rid of gamepads and aimassist ######. Mouse and Keybords alone is the(for me) only argument against a console. (gaming only ofc.)
CoD bashing... i dont understand it - whats your problem? Ya the others always have the better guns, killstreaks and perks - and they all hack... right? ...OR maybe you just suck?
<!--quoteo(post=1815445:date=Dec 13 2010, 06:18 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 13 2010, 06:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Bhop etc in ns1 wasnt really hard to master if you knew how... you will have to search some time to fully understand this engine glitch... buts its not really skill.
Is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered a mechanic the average joe didnt even heard of? Or is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered the easy mechanics the average joe can handle too - but it happend that you are just smarter/aimed faster/better reaction and reading of his tactic?
Bhop etc: This mechanics are on the same list with config tweaking, model/sound/texture replacing and the rest of this unfair advantage stuff noobs care so much about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Are you trying to start a war? I would like say that you have no idea what you are talking about.
<!--quoteo(post=1815445:date=Dec 13 2010, 04:18 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Dec 13 2010, 04:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1815445"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fade is fine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you wrote three words, and wall of text everything else off-topic.
many feels fade's aren't "fine". this problem needs to be tackled now, while we are in beta - we should be coming up with ideas how to fix this problem.
the two button method needs to be changed. blinking into vents and at moving targets plus poor aiming hurting this class. In addition, fade is over roll slow compared to ns1 fade.
look over the videos i've linked as examples - they should provide better understanding for those who haven't played fade yet.
What the Fade really misses at the moment is indeed speed, which was such a big part in NS1.
Now, as to my suggestion how to add it, simply look back at the blink you have in NS1 right now. Of course Im not saying you should completely trash the teleport blink you now have, but to combine the two. A toned down NS1 blink on top of the teleport blink would allow you come up whit different tactics, and give fade the much needed speed. The speed you get from the NS1 blink should carry over when you use the teleport at the same time. For example gaining a bit of speed at one end of the room, then teleporting close to a marine on the other, and finally using the momentum that carried between the teleport and some aircontrol to steer yourself to the marine and deliver a swipe. Or using the NS1 blink to go higher in the air to get better view on possible teleport locations.
I think this would add speed and flexibility back to the fade, which are much needed.
Comments
But i agree with the OP about the somewhat CoD-ish mechanism. The fade blink should be working like it did in 1.0-1.04 (Aim - teleport - face the wall you were aiming at) but not like it is now. Tbh i didn't even realize that there was an auto-aim mechanic (i thought it was a bug due to extreme lag and because i barely played the fade on my permanently crashing pc) until i saw the introduction by NS2HD. The auto-aim/face the nearest marine feature can't seriously stay in the game. Imo it would just cause trouble. Blink should be used to escape a horde of marines or just a fast movement feature too, not just for attacking. I would be really pissed if i wanted to just cross a room and end up involuntarily facing the wrong direction just because there was a marine somewhere near of my crosshair. Also the fade ghost model should be replaced by a simple dot.
What if I'm the one doing the owning? Teleporting straight into marine base and swiping away at marines and structures until I'm below half hp and instantly teleport out.
but your point is moot because you can do that without the current teleport mechanics. fades have been able to do exactly that since ns1. blink in, swipe, blink out. 90% you could rinse and repeat. and no, this wasnt combat games. any good fade player could attest to this.
correct me if im wrong but pathways can still be blocked and fades arent nearly as powerful as they were in ns1
Yes something is wrong, the hitreg and generally bad performance. Once the game gets smoother I can guarantee that if the damages of the weapons and lifeform hps are pretty much the same as in NS1, you wont be able to make the "focus" swipe, or stay near them for longer than 2 seconds max whitout dying when theres maybe 3 marines around and atleast one has a shotgun and they know how to aim, then again its not hard to hit stationary target.
And what comes to my suggestions, I think Bacillus pretty much nailed them already.
maybe, but the OP was about the feel of the controls and not whatever you're trying to say. People take that as an excuse to ###### about the class being underpowered or overpowered but in fact what we should be talking about is why blink feels like firing a guided weapon rather than controlling a living character.
what he said.
Yes and it's retarded in NS1 as well.
this i can somewhat agree with. Ive already stated I dont like the autoaim of the blink. blink shouldnt be doing aiming at all. also I havent been able to check, but does the distance of the blink effect adren?
this is just your opinion though. imo fades should be able to do this. they should be able to attack better than skulks but not have the overwhelming power of an onos. Fades arent a game ender. A fade mid game can stall or defeat a bad team, but a good team can either upgrade and survive a fade hit and run attack or survive till kharaa can get onos.
------------
One question: I am able to BH in Quake an CS, but is it really possible in NS1 without any scripting? I did never manage to do it.
-------------
My opinion to the topic: I hate 12 year old bunnyhopping rulers. It should not be about your stats, it should be about the teamplay. Older people with slower reflexes should be able to win with intelligence.
And what I also hate are fckin console commands that give an advantage if well used. I don't have the time to find and test the best values. I have a girlfriend and a job, dammit. I want to start a game, play it and get skill by playing. Not by configuring and not by scripting.
And the last hate goes to CoD-like games; yes, they are crap. But I would never compare them to NS2 - why should I? I'm sure unknown worlds would not have any problems to get money from a bigger company - but they don't want to. Because they want a game that they like to play; not a game that any marketing guy wants to be ported to the xbox or whatever.
Seriously, a teleporting Alien in an online-FPS is a fckin great thought. Let them try it out.
-------------
The Fade-Hitbox from NS1: It was far behind the Fade. Every second time I died I was already around the corner. Fun playing anyways, I don't know which version of Blink is the better one.
We will see when development went further.
crying nubs are crying<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fades lost their speed and quickness. Its largely due to two click blink method. Sure the effect is amazing, and I agree it is but it costs the fade its one thing is known for, speed. These two clicks commands reduce person's reactions, thus making him slow.
How will fade catch jet-packer now? more importantly how will he catch moving target in general? fades became grounded alien, aren't as flexible as they are in ns1 at all.
Blinking into vents, and blinking at moving targets in general is very slow process, and once marines tech up this slowness will just get those fades killed.
We need to figure out how to reduce the clicking, and this problem will be solved.
edit
watch 30 or so seconds of this video <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI</a>
it should kind of show aiming and moving target how big of an issue it is. Now if he had jetpacker, it would be even worse for the fade.
My 2 cents.
No, you can blink through the tiny gap between marines, or failing that above their heads will do just fine. You no longer need to slip your hitbox between them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and fades arent nearly as powerful as they were in ns1<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Far as I can tell the numbers for them are exactly the same, for the moment. I'm sure it's just meant as a placeholder, though... I'll just drop the subject in any case, there're too many variables that are just put in to make the game playable rather than balanced, not least res flow - do remember that having personal res to spend on going fade means you don't waste a potential hive or wall of lame.
+1 for instant blink
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ive already stated I dont like the autoaim of the blink. blink shouldnt be doing aiming at all. also I havent been able to check, but does the distance of the blink effect adren?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This. Nothing should be aiming for you on pc.
I don't think distance affects the adren use, but that sounds like an excellent way of limiting blink spam. Rather than only allowing 2-3 blinks, have adrenaline use allow 4 or 5 at minimum distance and then only 1.5-2 blinks at max distance
I don't think making aliens more powerful than marines one on one is a good idea, because then they just become stupidly overpowered if you get half a team of decent players.
You can't scale marines exponentially to counter that either, because if marines in a group become more powerful than aliens, either the entire marine team would annihilate the entire alien team, or the marines would be horribly underpowered in anything other than a large group, and it doesn't scale with different server sizes either, if marines need six man groups to beat 12 aliens for example, the aliens would be underpowered on 12 player servers, whereas marines would be overpowered on 24 player servers.
Additionally, why would you make the game crap for lots of players just so one player can run around killing people constantly? That is not an efficient use of your players, annoying many players to appeal to one is obviously stupid.
The only scalable and sensible option is to balance one alien against one marine, make the classes different roles, rather than simple straight upgrades.
but the simple fact is that kharaa is already stronger than frontiersman one on one depending on the situation of course. thats the balance. a good skulk should be able to kill a lone marine is caught in close quarters rather quickly. thats the the discouragement of ramboing.
skulk > single marine (most of the time)
fade >> single marine 90% of the time
Onos >>>>> single marine 99.99999% of the time
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't scale marines exponentially to counter that either, because if marines in a group become more powerful than aliens, either the entire marine team would annihilate the entire alien team, or the marines would be horribly underpowered in anything other than a large group, and it doesn't scale with different server sizes either, if marines need six man groups to beat 12 aliens for example, the aliens would be underpowered on 12 player servers, whereas marines would be overpowered on 24 player servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you just desribed ns basically. one on one marines cant beat the kharaa, so they hold and tech up to become a better killing force.
aliens are defending with chambers, marines get grenades and flamers to counter
aliens get stronger attackers, marines get dual wielding machine guns, jetpacks and heavy armor
the whole premise of the marine team is to attack as a group, I dont know if youre confusing ns with combat or not. in combat marines usually attack alone. not so much in ns mode. and if the kharaa have 12 then the marines should have at the least 11 give or take an extra commander. in which case in the final game its up to kharaa strategy to win. a single fade wont dominate. a single marine wont dominate and the better team should win most of the time. its not up the the devs to skill balance because in every game there will be a few players that are better than the rest.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Additionally, why would you make the game crap for lots of players just so one player can run around killing people constantly? That is not an efficient use of your players, annoying many players to appeal to one is obviously stupid.
The only scalable and sensible option is to balance one alien against one marine, make the classes different roles, rather than simple straight upgrades.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
who says the game is crap to some players, currently the marines are a bit overpowered but have long tech times to compensate. this is mostly due to the flamethrower being completely bugged and blinding. playing as a team may annoy you, maybe cod type games would be more to your liking?
current problem, fades are slow with two button blink. Hard to catch moving target or getting into vents and aiming issues.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w82fOrlf9lI</a> - watch 30 seconds of this video to understand the problem
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w8hXW8ZofE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w8hXW8ZofE</a> - watch few mins in this video to see more examples
basically, fades lost their speed - something they largely are known for. while blink effect is amazing, it cost the fade its speed.
Off topic:
Skulk:
Yes there is no bhop, but u still can jump + you got leap (and upgraded leap bug -> jump+leap .... hope this gets removed soon)
Maps are more complex and got more stuff to hide/dodge bullets and wait for the reloads etc pp.
Fade:
Well if you blink to a marine and fail at aiming, you should blink away and try again... Have you ever seen a fade in ns1 blinking into marines and then running after them for almost 30s...? NEVER. you blink, hit(~4-6hits max/kill) -> blink away. if you blink, then miss - you dont stay and hit until you or your enemy dies... -> you have to blink away and try again.
Bhop etc in ns1 wasnt really hard to master if you knew how... you will have to search some time to fully understand this engine glitch... buts its not really skill.
So many fps after ns1, enemy territory, cs & Co. for me...
I never missed bhop. (ok at first in my younger wannabe progamer times i believed this is important, because - you know... all the other progamer kids said so)
But this is false... its your mindset and how you work with the things you are given nothing more - nothing less.
Is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered a mechanic the average joe didnt even heard of?
Or is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered the easy mechanics the average joe can handle too - but it happend that you are just smarter/aimed faster/better reaction and reading of his tactic?
Bhop etc:
This mechanics are on the same list with config tweaking, model/sound/texture replacing and the rest of this unfair advantage stuff noobs care so much about.
<u><b>
Srsly... you ppl should stop playing fps and go in some other genres like rpgs... you want advantages(because you spend so much more time than average joe) - there you can get them.</b></u>
And yes, i would play with consoles - if the get rid of gamepads and aimassist ######. Mouse and Keybords alone is the(for me) only argument against a console. (gaming only ofc.)
CoD bashing... i dont understand it - whats your problem? Ya the others always have the better guns, killstreaks and perks - and they all hack... right? ...OR maybe you just suck?
Is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered a mechanic the average joe didnt even heard of?
Or is it satisfying that you owned a game because you mastered the easy mechanics the average joe can handle too - but it happend that you are just smarter/aimed faster/better reaction and reading of his tactic?
Bhop etc:
This mechanics are on the same list with config tweaking, model/sound/texture replacing and the rest of this unfair advantage stuff noobs care so much about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you trying to start a war? I would like say that you have no idea what you are talking about.
you wrote three words, and wall of text everything else off-topic.
many feels fade's aren't "fine".
this problem needs to be tackled now, while we are in beta - we should be coming up with ideas how to fix this problem.
the two button method needs to be changed.
blinking into vents and at moving targets plus poor aiming hurting this class. In addition, fade is over roll slow compared to ns1 fade.
look over the videos i've linked as examples - they should provide better understanding for those who haven't played fade yet.
stay on topic, please.
Now, as to my suggestion how to add it, simply look back at the blink you have in NS1 right now. Of course Im not saying you should completely trash the teleport blink you now have, but to combine the two. A toned down NS1 blink on top of the teleport blink would allow you come up whit different tactics, and give fade the much needed speed. The speed you get from the NS1 blink should carry over when you use the teleport at the same time. For example gaining a bit of speed at one end of the room, then teleporting close to a marine on the other, and finally using the momentum that carried between the teleport and some aircontrol to steer yourself to the marine and deliver a swipe. Or using the NS1 blink to go higher in the air to get better view on possible teleport locations.
I think this would add speed and flexibility back to the fade, which are much needed.
+1 to distance-based adrenaline cost