<!--quoteo(post=1824309:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:39 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Jan 14 2011, 12:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the ready room is not meant to make sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah apparently not, that's what this thread is about - "ideas and suggestions" of how it could be made to make sense
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<!--quoteo(post=1824310:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:40 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Jan 14 2011, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you doesn't do you any favours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I missed the part where I insulted anyone. You seem upset Uzguz maybe you should take a break from posting?
<!--quoteo(post=1824311:date=Jan 14 2011, 09:41 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yeah apparently not, that's what this thread is about - "ideas and suggestions" of how it could be made to make sense
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I missed the part where I insulted anyone. You seem upset Uzguz maybe you should take a break from posting?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> but there is no need to make sense of it. it doesnt affect gameplay and theres no reason to spend any more time that it takes to walk to the join team location unless you want to admire the mappers work
<!--quoteo(post=1824312:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:46 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Jan 14 2011, 12:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824312"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->but there is no need to make sense of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. From a functional standpoint there's no need for it to make sense, but that's true of anything in the game. The machine-gun could be shooting ice cream instead of bullets and it wouldn't affect gameplay either. But people expect a certain amount of logical consistency in their video games for the sake of non-gameplay related things like "atmosphere."
of course an ice cream shooting gun would ruin gameplay, thats just ridiculous. the game is not played is not played in the ready room, player models dont affect the atmosphere in game
<!--quoteo(post=1824311:date=Jan 14 2011, 09:41 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 09:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I missed the part where I insulted anyone. You seem upset Uzguz maybe you should take a break from posting?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I'm quite fine, actually. Thanks for asking.
Meanwhile, you continue to miss the point that "a functional capacity for logical thinking" does not, in fact, inhibit one's ability to acknowledge the difference between "the real game" (where your coveted "atmosphere" is) and "everything else". This is the first time I've ever heard anyone complain that the ready room compromises atmosphere, even from people who really value it. It just doesn't bother anyone, except, apparently, for you.
<!--quoteo(post=1824315:date=Jan 14 2011, 01:09 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Jan 14 2011, 01:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824315"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the game is not played is not played in the ready room, player models dont affect the atmosphere in game<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when you are in the ready room you are in fact playing NS2
<!--quoteo(post=1824317:date=Jan 14 2011, 01:11 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Jan 14 2011, 01:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It just doesn't bother anyone, except, apparently, for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You claim you read the thread but you apparently missed the other people aside from me constructively contributing to this thread. Blinded by rage, perhaps? Really, I think you should take a break and calm down.
so you consider being in limbo and walking to the join team location "playing"? the ready room is just a fun version of the join team menu, you're in the game, but you arent playing
<!--quoteo(post=1824319:date=Jan 14 2011, 01:29 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Jan 14 2011, 01:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you're in the game, but you arent playing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, what are you doing with the game then? What adjective would you use for that? The point you're trying to make is ridiculous semantics.
Atmosphere applies to everything in "the game," from when you run the .exe to the menu you see before you quit. Game designers spend large amounts of time creating an art style for their game menus that fits with the game's theme, they add ambient sound to the title screen to create a feeling of tension, and so on and so forth. Even the loading screen before you join a match is themed to create atmosphere. It is in no way limited to the literal competitive player-vs-player part of the game.
Lets take it back a step. Imagine if instead of a ready room, there was actually the "join team" menu that you mention. On the left there is a button representing the marine team, with a picture of a marine. On the right there is a button representing the alien team, with a picture of another marine. That's basically what we have here. So again, does it affect gameplay? No. Does it reflect the overall level of polish of the game?
<!--quoteo(post=1824318:date=Jan 14 2011, 10:12 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You claim you read the thread but you apparently missed the other people aside from me constructively contributing to this thread.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I suppose you define "constructively contributing" as "agreeing with you". On that scale, you're not doing very well.
<!--quoteo(post=1824318:date=Jan 14 2011, 10:12 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blinded by rage, perhaps? Really, I think you should take a break and calm down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, son, but carrying on like that isn't going to impress anyone. Give it a rest.
Back to the main point: The maps we have now don't, but most NS1 maps had infestation around the "Join Aliens" portal. The Marine is used as the "neutral" player model because it represents a human, which is also what the players happen to be, so it's "close enough"; and the ready room constitutes such a small portion of the NS2 experience that a really neutral model that won't be used anywhere else isn't worth the resources to create.
Besides, flying around the ready room as a jetpacking Marine or Blinking Fade is a mildly entertaining way to pass the time while socialising between matches, so that will probably be implemented just like it was in NS1. If the idea of that bothers you too, then you're just not going to like the ready room very much, neutral player model for new-joins or not, so... sorry to say, but you'd better get used to it.
Look, Uzguz, I know you're playing like you can't understand what's being said in this thread, but I know you're smarter than that. Your tone is needlessly offensive so I'll refrain from responding other than to point out it's obvious that you are shuckin' and jivin' all over the place so that you can intentionally avoid addressing the actual views and arguments brought forth in this thread. I'll also refrain from speculating why you would rather attempt to instigate than have an honest discussion. I'd ask that you do some honest self-evaluation of your attitude, but I know that isn't going to happen. So I look forward to such a point in the future when you choose to participate in good faith.
<!--quoteo(post=1824145:date=Jan 13 2011, 11:44 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 13 2011, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824145"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would make sense after the first round, but doesn't address the issue with the ready room at game start. My "customizeable models" idea was not a serious suggestion for UW, I understand they don't have the budget to do it. It just doesn't make sense to me to associate everyone with a team before they pick teams.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman" target="_blank">Most players are human.</a>
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1824326:date=Jan 14 2011, 11:15 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 11:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Look, Uzguz, I know you're playing like you can't understand what's being said in this thread, but I know you're smarter than that. Your tone is needlessly offensive so I'll refrain from responding other than to point out it's obvious that you are shuckin' and jivin' all over the place so that you can intentionally avoid addressing the actual views and arguments brought forth in this thread. I'll also refrain from speculating why you would rather attempt to instigate than have an honest discussion. I'd ask that you do some honest self-evaluation of your attitude, but I know that isn't going to happen. So I look forward to such a point in the future when you choose to participate in good faith.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> After "subtly implying" (lol) that those who aren't bothered by the ready room's current implementation lack "a functional capacity for logical thinking", then disregarding the contents of my posts twice in a row (ironically, considering your accusations) to pull a pathetic "u mad bro" line, you're in no position to play the victim card.
Anyway, I've made my stance on the issue quite clear. I haven't been "avoiding" anything; taking your views into consideration doesn't necessarily result in agreeing with them, and in this case, I don't. No trolling, no conspiracy - I just think you're wrong.
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Haha, good old TV Tropes - that's what I was thinking of too. And I agree.
<!--quoteo(post=1824142:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:34 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824142"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't understand the purpose of the ready room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> back ns1, there was no virtual "lobby", so a ready room was born. I guess they use it in ns2 because it has some retro-coolness factor :P I like the ready room, special if every player is his class he was in the game.
I honestly dont see how there can be an issue with the ready room, it is way nicer than those half assed screens with buttons to join a team, and it allows you to be able of not participating in the game, but still jump around randomly, something I have done almost as much as I played gmod (1/3 of the time I play gmod I do stuff, 2/3 I jump around randomly, or if not randomly, atleast jump around). It also acts as a perfect unassigned team, spectators does not equal unassigned in ns, making you not have to be an immortal transparent and nonsolid body watching others play while doing whatever you do.
All I wish is that rr guys would be same as what you were last round, and maybe that someone makes an arcade machine they could place in it, letting guys who wait play pong or something. Even is non of those is done, I prefer rr way more than those join team screens (tf2 being extra exceptionally bad).
If you however <b>really</b> want an explanation to why rr rooms are good, apart from being nice and awesome, sure, lets give you one. ready rooms gives the mappers an unique chance to display a story, or simply show off. Maybe there will be so that rr entity will have a setting mappers can use to force everyone into a certain class, so they could make awesome gorge tracks, or fade training areas. I would actually not even be suprised if someone made an entity able to display youtube videos, which a mapper would use to make some sort of debriefing room, or if they made maps in the room, letting players new to the map get a chance to learn it BEFORE they play.
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Makes sense to me. I'm tossed into a room I can quickly make sense of (as a team joining room), which is fine. I'm a human, so if I find myself spawned as a human, I instantly understand how I can move around, especially if I've played an FPS before. If I happen to spawn as a marine, I don't think "why is everyone a marine?" because it's a MARINE versus alien game! XD
The problem is that you guys have been playing NS since the beginning, and the Readroom is just part and parcel of the experience you know. Yes it is enjoyable, for gloating at other players when you win, or having a chat.
But where does it fit in, from the experience of someone who has no clue about the NS universe.
It does not make sense to player, and he is right.
Most games have a back story, as they helps to explain things to players and helps with immersion. So far the Readroom has no story, and neither do the levels.
Why are you there? What are you doing there?
All the AAA titles have a big back story, and don't suddenly place you in unexplainable situations when you join a game. Yes, even multiplayer can have a story.
I know, I know, in other games you just click a button and join a team. But I think the ready room could serve a real purpose, especially with how complicated this game is.
Perhaps player are initially given the option to join a team, and once they join (marine / aliens) they join a readroom that is either infested, or some sort of marine labratory. In there players can look at the different structures, find out what they do - without having to interfere with the game.
Perhaps give a story behind why you are there.
So the marine room could be a docking bay where there is a briefing going on about the invasion of the Tram system.
For Aliens it could just be some infested pit of slime, very creepy. Depending on the feel - "Kill all humans!". Inappropriate, but those are my thoughts.
You have to think broadly when new players and members say things on here, because it is a fresh perspective on what it is like for a new player experienceing NS for the first time.
It's obvious this is a hyper-sensitive topic for NS1 diehards, and I apologize if my suggestion that a beloved game mechanic from NS1 could somehow be improved in NS2. Really, if I'm causing offense and emotional trauma with this thread, I do apologize, I'm only trying to put forward some suggestions to make the game presentation more professional and more logically consistent.
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most players are not members of an outer-space military force.
Giving them the space marine avatar as a default makes no sense.
Look, I can be 100% literal too, but we both know that's not how gaming works.
<!--quoteo(post=1824332:date=Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After "subtly implying" (lol) that those who aren't bothered by the ready room's current implementation lack "a functional capacity for logical thinking",<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you're willfully misinterpreting what I'm saying, which is why you haven't produced any points worth responding to. What I said (not "implied" in your imagination) is that it's easy to understand why the having marines transform into aliens (or marines) in the ready room doesn't make sense. This isn't about people agreeing that it should be changed or not, it's just a basic fact. For example Loey, who doesn't agree with me at all that it's necessary to alter the ready room, freely admits that it makes no sense in this thread. Uzguz you are still far off base on all counts, I don't know why you are compelled to continue derailing this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1824352:date=Jan 14 2011, 05:40 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jan 14 2011, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-player joins game -player is prompted to "Choose your team" -player sees "Aliens" or "Marines" as his or her option -player chooses team<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you ignore the graphical representation and pretend the RR is just a menu, sure that's literally what's happening. But take into acount what UW is depicting in the game and you have:
-Space Marine enters space station/mining colony/whatever it is -Marine is prompted to "choose your team" -Marine sees "Aliens" or "Marines" as his or her option, thinks "wait, I thought I was already a Marine" -Marine either transforms into an alien for no apparent reason or remains a Marine
<!--quoteo(post=1824417:date=Jan 14 2011, 06:01 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 06:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824417"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Most players are not members of an outer-space military force.
Giving them the space marine avatar as a default makes no sense.
(Look, I can be 100% literal too.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is your issue with the RR that you find it confusing or feel the average player will find it confusing?
It's nothing more then an interactive team selection menu... i dont see how complicated that can be. you point out that people may be confused that they are on the marine team when they join a game... ns2 isnt your standard run and gun shooter... sad to say, if you are confused in the ready room youre not going to understand the game at all.
adding a new avatar strictly for the RR wont help much, the only thing i can think of that will alieviate any confusion is removing all player models while in a RR. that way you dont see any hint of being on a team and just have players float to their team selection. when a round ends all players are ported back to the ready room as they were in the game for a short period (for the nostalgia of jumping around as an egg) then the character models are removed again while the players select their team for round 2.
<!--quoteo(post=1824426:date=Jan 14 2011, 11:16 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jan 14 2011, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is your issue with the RR that you find it confusing or feel the average player will find it confusing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824307:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:27 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. Players will understand that they are in an area where they choose a team. They will not be "confused" or "mislead." But if they have a functional capacity for logical thinking, they will think "why do I have to walk to marine team start when I'm already a marine" or "why are marines spontaneously transforming into aliens in order to fight against themselves."
Again, it's not "confusing" because it's obvious that it's a method for team selection in a multiplayer game. But it is nonsensical within the parameters of the game's fiction, which breaks the fourth wall, which is considered amateurish, which again is acceptable in a mod like NS1 but not the kind of lack of polish expected in a commercial game like NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This discussion aside, I agree that the NS1 mechanic of respawning in the RR as your last played character should make an appearance in NS2, so at least something constructive has come up in this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1824426:date=Jan 14 2011, 11:16 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jan 14 2011, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->adding a new avatar strictly for the RR wont help much, the only thing i can think of that will alieviate any confusion is removing all player models while in a RR. that way you dont see any hint of being on a team and just have players float to their team selection. when a round ends all players are ported back to the ready room as they were in the game for a short period (for the nostalgia of jumping around as an egg) then the character models are removed again while the players select their team for round 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree here. But I also think there's the potential for an even cooler solution. Maybe a totally abstract "alien" environment covered with infestation, where players are represented by the "glowie/drifter" model.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1824402:date=Jan 14 2011, 08:59 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 14 2011, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So far the Readroom has no story, and neither do the levels.
Why are you there? What are you doing there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> My readyrooms (achio&cerberus) had a backstory what with it being a TSA frigate (Cerberus) in orbit of a bigger ship (Achio) and visa-versa... So does ns_hera's RR, from what I can tell. It looks like a marine ship with teleportation thingies to Hera? But yeah, RR's might need a backstory, I always love backstories :P
Nobody mentioned yet that the readyroom is also some social point. I remember in the beginning of NS1 sometimes I joined a server and everybody was standing in the Readyroom just chatting. Also after a clanwar or just after a public match players stayed in readyroom and talk a little about the game or just random chatting. This is a social factor I never saw in other FPS. And I love that
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes it is enjoyable, for gloating at other players when you win, or having a chat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I did ;)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My readyrooms (achio&cerberus) had a backstory what with it being a TSA frigate (Cerberus) in orbit of a bigger ship (Achio) and visa-versa... So does ns_hera's RR, from what I can tell. It looks like a marine ship with teleportation thingies to Hera? But yeah, RR's might need a backstory, I always love backstories :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking from the point of making them more cinematic? Perhaps some NPC going through a briefing or something?
You could even have a hologram of 'what you should be doing' when you first spawn in.
"When we blow the doors, I want an Infantry Portal [Picture] up right away! Then get an armoury [Picture] down in Junction and support your men on the ground. Remember, move fast to secure the resource nodes [Picture] and Tech Nodes [Picture] so that we can produce advanced weaponry and eradicate the threat."
A simple but effective way of learning for new players, whilst adding story and cinematics to the experience.
Perhaps it could be split in two, with one side being very alien like and the other being a marine briefing room.
You might remember me from movies such as Once upon a Gorgemas or Black armor down.
I'll be your host for the oncoming minute, while I tell you about the battlements you are about to experience.
If you look out the left window you will see the Khaara and their struggle for survival. On the right side you can see the TSA battling it out to take control of the base.
You can make a choice on which team you want to join...
It's time to choose your side!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All with one of those highly annoying sales-pitch voices, or maybe a custom skin mac should present it (ala hazard course hologirl from HL)
But Ready Room Mike, I'm already on a side, I mean just look at me all looking like a Marine already and stuff... why do I have to pick marine again if I just want to stay as a marine?
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1824469:date=Jan 15 2011, 01:10 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 01:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But Ready Room Mike, I'm already on a side, I mean just look at me all looking like a Marine already and stuff... why do I have to pick marine again if I just want to stay as a marine?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> well, I can offer you a battle you have no chance of winning... rather an anticlimax after what you've just survived (starting up NS2 :P).
<!--quoteo(post=1824469:date=Jan 15 2011, 01:10 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 01:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But Ready Room Mike, I'm already on a side, I mean just look at me all looking like a Marine already and stuff... why do I have to pick marine again if I just want to stay as a marine?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
yeah apparently not, that's what this thread is about - "ideas and suggestions" of how it could be made to make sense
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<!--quoteo(post=1824310:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:40 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Jan 14 2011, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824310"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you doesn't do you any favours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I missed the part where I insulted anyone. You seem upset Uzguz maybe you should take a break from posting?
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I missed the part where I insulted anyone. You seem upset Uzguz maybe you should take a break from posting?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
but there is no need to make sense of it. it doesnt affect gameplay and theres no reason to spend any more time that it takes to walk to the join team location unless you want to admire the mappers work
I disagree. From a functional standpoint there's no need for it to make sense, but that's true of anything in the game. The machine-gun could be shooting ice cream instead of bullets and it wouldn't affect gameplay either. But people expect a certain amount of logical consistency in their video games for the sake of non-gameplay related things like "atmosphere."
No, I'm quite fine, actually. Thanks for asking.
Meanwhile, you continue to miss the point that "a functional capacity for logical thinking" does not, in fact, inhibit one's ability to acknowledge the difference between "the real game" (where your coveted "atmosphere" is) and "everything else". This is the first time I've ever heard anyone complain that the ready room compromises atmosphere, even from people who really value it. It just doesn't bother anyone, except, apparently, for you.
when you are in the ready room you are in fact playing NS2
<!--quoteo(post=1824317:date=Jan 14 2011, 01:11 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Jan 14 2011, 01:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824317"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It just doesn't bother anyone, except, apparently, for you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You claim you read the thread but you apparently missed the other people aside from me constructively contributing to this thread. Blinded by rage, perhaps? Really, I think you should take a break and calm down.
So, what are you doing with the game then? What adjective would you use for that? The point you're trying to make is ridiculous semantics.
Atmosphere applies to everything in "the game," from when you run the .exe to the menu you see before you quit. Game designers spend large amounts of time creating an art style for their game menus that fits with the game's theme, they add ambient sound to the title screen to create a feeling of tension, and so on and so forth. Even the loading screen before you join a match is themed to create atmosphere. It is in no way limited to the literal competitive player-vs-player part of the game.
Lets take it back a step. Imagine if instead of a ready room, there was actually the "join team" menu that you mention. On the left there is a button representing the marine team, with a picture of a marine. On the right there is a button representing the alien team, with a picture of another marine. That's basically what we have here. So again, does it affect gameplay? No. Does it reflect the overall level of polish of the game?
I suppose you define "constructively contributing" as "agreeing with you". On that scale, you're not doing very well.
<!--quoteo(post=1824318:date=Jan 14 2011, 10:12 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 10:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blinded by rage, perhaps? Really, I think you should take a break and calm down.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, son, but carrying on like that isn't going to impress anyone. Give it a rest.
Back to the main point: The maps we have now don't, but most NS1 maps had infestation around the "Join Aliens" portal. The Marine is used as the "neutral" player model because it represents a human, which is also what the players happen to be, so it's "close enough"; and the ready room constitutes such a small portion of the NS2 experience that a really neutral model that won't be used anywhere else isn't worth the resources to create.
Besides, flying around the ready room as a jetpacking Marine or Blinking Fade is a mildly entertaining way to pass the time while socialising between matches, so that will probably be implemented just like it was in NS1. If the idea of that bothers you too, then you're just not going to like the ready room very much, neutral player model for new-joins or not, so... sorry to say, but you'd better get used to it.
<a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman" target="_blank">Most players are human.</a>
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.
After "subtly implying" (lol) that those who aren't bothered by the ready room's current implementation lack "a functional capacity for logical thinking", then disregarding the contents of my posts twice in a row (ironically, considering your accusations) to pull a pathetic "u mad bro" line, you're in no position to play the victim card.
Anyway, I've made my stance on the issue quite clear. I haven't been "avoiding" anything; taking your views into consideration doesn't necessarily result in agreeing with them, and in this case, I don't. No trolling, no conspiracy - I just think you're wrong.
<!--quoteo(post=1824330:date=Jan 14 2011, 11:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 14 2011, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman" target="_blank">Most players are human.</a>
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Haha, good old TV Tropes - that's what I was thinking of too. And I agree.
<img src="http://www.joemanna.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/HLIC/d9f52e0469398513ad24e5b0935ffa61.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
If you "don't get" the ready room, I'm not sure you are going to "get" how to play NS2.
back ns1, there was no virtual "lobby", so a ready room was born.
I guess they use it in ns2 because it has some retro-coolness factor :P
I like the ready room, special if every player is his class he was in the game.
-player joins game
-player is prompted to "Choose your team"
-player sees "Aliens" or "Marines" as his or her option
-player chooses team
where's the need for discussion in this?
I'm beginning to think that the NS community is full of senior citizens from Florida =/
All I wish is that rr guys would be same as what you were last round, and maybe that someone makes an arcade machine they could place in it, letting guys who wait play pong or something. Even is non of those is done, I prefer rr way more than those join team screens (tf2 being extra exceptionally bad).
If you however <b>really</b> want an explanation to why rr rooms are good, apart from being nice and awesome, sure, lets give you one.
ready rooms gives the mappers an unique chance to display a story, or simply show off. Maybe there will be so that rr entity will have a setting mappers can use to force everyone into a certain class, so they could make awesome gorge tracks, or fade training areas.
I would actually not even be suprised if someone made an entity able to display youtube videos, which a mapper would use to make some sort of debriefing room, or if they made maps in the room, letting players new to the map get a chance to learn it BEFORE they play.
However
<!--quoteo(post=1824330:date=Jan 14 2011, 09:54 AM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 14 2011, 09:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman" target="_blank">Most players are human.</a>
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Makes sense to me. I'm tossed into a room I can quickly make sense of (as a team joining room), which is fine. I'm a human, so if I find myself spawned as a human, I instantly understand how I can move around, especially if I've played an FPS before. If I happen to spawn as a marine, I don't think "why is everyone a marine?" because it's a MARINE versus alien game! XD
The problem is that you guys have been playing NS since the beginning, and the Readroom is just part and parcel of the experience you know. Yes it is enjoyable, for gloating at other players when you win, or having a chat.
But where does it fit in, from the experience of someone who has no clue about the NS universe.
It does not make sense to player, and he is right.
Most games have a back story, as they helps to explain things to players and helps with immersion. So far the Readroom has no story, and neither do the levels.
Why are you there? What are you doing there?
All the AAA titles have a big back story, and don't suddenly place you in unexplainable situations when you join a game. Yes, even multiplayer can have a story.
I know, I know, in other games you just click a button and join a team. But I think the ready room could serve a real purpose, especially with how complicated this game is.
Perhaps player are initially given the option to join a team, and once they join (marine / aliens) they join a readroom that is either infested, or some sort of marine labratory. In there players can look at the different structures, find out what they do - without having to interfere with the game.
Perhaps give a story behind why you are there.
So the marine room could be a docking bay where there is a briefing going on about the invasion of the Tram system.
For Aliens it could just be some infested pit of slime, very creepy. Depending on the feel - "Kill all humans!". Inappropriate, but those are my thoughts.
You have to think broadly when new players and members say things on here, because it is a fresh perspective on what it is like for a new player experienceing NS for the first time.
<!--quoteo(post=1824330:date=Jan 14 2011, 02:54 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Jan 14 2011, 02:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824330"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MostWritersAreHuman" target="_blank">Most players are human.</a>
Giving them the human avatar as a default makes sense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most players are not members of an outer-space military force.
Giving them the space marine avatar as a default makes no sense.
Look, I can be 100% literal too, but we both know that's not how gaming works.
<!--quoteo(post=1824332:date=Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM:name=Uzguz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Uzguz @ Jan 14 2011, 03:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824332"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->After "subtly implying" (lol) that those who aren't bothered by the ready room's current implementation lack "a functional capacity for logical thinking",<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, you're willfully misinterpreting what I'm saying, which is why you haven't produced any points worth responding to. What I said (not "implied" in your imagination) is that it's easy to understand why the having marines transform into aliens (or marines) in the ready room doesn't make sense. This isn't about people agreeing that it should be changed or not, it's just a basic fact. For example Loey, who doesn't agree with me at all that it's necessary to alter the ready room, freely admits that it makes no sense in this thread. Uzguz you are still far off base on all counts, I don't know why you are compelled to continue derailing this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1824352:date=Jan 14 2011, 05:40 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jan 14 2011, 05:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824352"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-player joins game
-player is prompted to "Choose your team"
-player sees "Aliens" or "Marines" as his or her option
-player chooses team<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you ignore the graphical representation and pretend the RR is just a menu, sure that's literally what's happening. But take into acount what UW is depicting in the game and you have:
-Space Marine enters space station/mining colony/whatever it is
-Marine is prompted to "choose your team"
-Marine sees "Aliens" or "Marines" as his or her option, thinks "wait, I thought I was already a Marine"
-Marine either transforms into an alien for no apparent reason or remains a Marine
Giving them the space marine avatar as a default makes no sense.
(Look, I can be 100% literal too.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is your issue with the RR that you find it confusing or feel the average player will find it confusing?
It's nothing more then an interactive team selection menu... i dont see how complicated that can be. you point out that people may be confused that they are on the marine team when they join a game... ns2 isnt your standard run and gun shooter... sad to say, if you are confused in the ready room youre not going to understand the game at all.
adding a new avatar strictly for the RR wont help much, the only thing i can think of that will alieviate any confusion is removing all player models while in a RR. that way you dont see any hint of being on a team and just have players float to their team selection. when a round ends all players are ported back to the ready room as they were in the game for a short period (for the nostalgia of jumping around as an egg) then the character models are removed again while the players select their team for round 2.
<!--quoteo(post=1824307:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:27 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 12:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824307"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No. Players will understand that they are in an area where they choose a team. They will not be "confused" or "mislead." But if they have a functional capacity for logical thinking, they will think "why do I have to walk to marine team start when I'm already a marine" or "why are marines spontaneously transforming into aliens in order to fight against themselves."
Again, it's not "confusing" because it's obvious that it's a method for team selection in a multiplayer game. But it is nonsensical within the parameters of the game's fiction, which breaks the fourth wall, which is considered amateurish, which again is acceptable in a mod like NS1 but not the kind of lack of polish expected in a commercial game like NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This discussion aside, I agree that the NS1 mechanic of respawning in the RR as your last played character should make an appearance in NS2, so at least something constructive has come up in this thread.
<!--quoteo(post=1824426:date=Jan 14 2011, 11:16 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jan 14 2011, 11:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824426"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->adding a new avatar strictly for the RR wont help much, the only thing i can think of that will alieviate any confusion is removing all player models while in a RR. that way you dont see any hint of being on a team and just have players float to their team selection. when a round ends all players are ported back to the ready room as they were in the game for a short period (for the nostalgia of jumping around as an egg) then the character models are removed again while the players select their team for round 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I totally agree here. But I also think there's the potential for an even cooler solution. Maybe a totally abstract "alien" environment covered with infestation, where players are represented by the "glowie/drifter" model.
Why are you there? What are you doing there?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My readyrooms (achio&cerberus) had a backstory what with it being a TSA frigate (Cerberus) in orbit of a bigger ship (Achio) and visa-versa... So does ns_hera's RR, from what I can tell. It looks like a marine ship with teleportation thingies to Hera? But yeah, RR's might need a backstory, I always love backstories :P
I remember in the beginning of NS1 sometimes I joined a server and everybody was standing in the Readyroom just chatting.
Also after a clanwar or just after a public match players stayed in readyroom and talk a little about the game or just random chatting.
This is a social factor I never saw in other FPS.
And I love that
I did ;)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My readyrooms (achio&cerberus) had a backstory what with it being a TSA frigate (Cerberus) in orbit of a bigger ship (Achio) and visa-versa... So does ns_hera's RR, from what I can tell. It looks like a marine ship with teleportation thingies to Hera? But yeah, RR's might need a backstory, I always love backstories :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was thinking from the point of making them more cinematic? Perhaps some NPC going through a briefing or something?
You could even have a hologram of 'what you should be doing' when you first spawn in.
"When we blow the doors, I want an Infantry Portal [Picture] up right away! Then get an armoury [Picture] down in Junction and support your men on the ground. Remember, move fast to secure the resource nodes [Picture] and Tech Nodes [Picture] so that we can produce advanced weaponry and eradicate the threat."
A simple but effective way of learning for new players, whilst adding story and cinematics to the experience.
Perhaps it could be split in two, with one side being very alien like and the other being a marine briefing room.
You might remember me from movies such as Once upon a Gorgemas or Black armor down.
I'll be your host for the oncoming minute, while I tell you about the battlements you are about to experience.
If you look out the left window you will see the Khaara and their struggle for survival. On the right side you can see the TSA battling it out to take control of the base.
You can make a choice on which team you want to join...
It's time to choose your side!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All with one of those highly annoying sales-pitch voices, or maybe a custom skin mac should present it (ala hazard course hologirl from HL)
well, I can offer you a battle you have no chance of winning... rather an anticlimax after what you've just survived (starting up NS2 :P).
Time to choose
<img src="http://stuffandthingsblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/picard-facepalm.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
oh look, a meme image macro - the last resort of those who have nothing to say