I dont get how people could argue it is confusing for players to spawn in a ready room, aslong as its not a very bad mapper who made a maze out of it (zex says he doesnt tho, he says he argues they would get confused as to their player model (if I understood it right)).
Well my answer to zex argument would be, that for starters, you do not know your own playermodel, and secondly, if others are in rr at same timee you start your first game so you see its marines, I still doubt they would be confused, as the stuff clearly is labeled "Join Aliens" and "Join Marines", even with a playermodel to show what team it is. This should make it very obvious to anyone that they are in an unassigned team no matter living players model (atleast was to me).
And if people think the whole rr thing is confusing, then I wonder what they expect when they join a team. Sure maybe a menu like in css or tf2 is what games usually have, but figuring out that this small room must be an awesome replacement for lame menus shouldnt take more than a few seconds (atleast did not to me). Something I think is worth the fact of having awesome ready rooms ;).
Offtopic: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I said (not "implied" in your imagination) is that it's easy to understand why the having marines transform into aliens (or marines) in the ready room doesn't make sense. This isn't about people agreeing that it should be changed or not, it's just a basic fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You cant state that an opinion is a fact (even if others agree, its still an opinion), and you did "implie" (as in, not stating it outright) that anyone not agreeing with your "facts" is a moron. <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Players will understand that they are in an area where they choose a team. They will not be "confused" or "mislead." But if they have a <b>functional capacity for logical thinking</b>, they will think "why do I have to walk to marine team start when I'm already a marine" or "why are marines spontaneously transforming into aliens in order to fight against themselves."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824480:date=Jan 15 2011, 02:40 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 15 2011, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well my answer to zex argument would be, that for starters, you do not know your own playermodel,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have a lot of problems with your post but I'll start out by admitting I have no idea what you are trying to say with this answer to my argument. What does "you do not know your own playermodel" mean in this context and how is that an answer to the critique that starting as a marine and transforming to an alien doesn't make sense?
<!--quoteo(post=1824480:date=Jan 15 2011, 02:40 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 15 2011, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Offtopic: You cant state that an opinion is a fact (even if others agree, its still an opinion), and you did "implie" (as in, not stating it outright) that anyone not agreeing with your "facts" is a moron.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, nobody in this thread has even attempted to explain how the ready room logically makes sense in the context of NS2's fiction. That's because it DOESN'T, even the people who totally disagree with me about the need to change it 100% agree on this point, as evidenced by the total and complete lack of counter argument. I'm not saying people who disagree with me are morons, i'm saying it's self evident that what i'm saying on that point (RR's lack of logical consistency) is correct. Note how you and Uggz aren't even saying I'm wrong on this point, you're just nitpicking the way I phrased it in order to falsely accuse me of insulting someone.
<!--quoteo(post=1824483:date=Jan 15 2011, 02:50 AM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Jan 15 2011, 02:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824483"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->maybe it should just spawn everyone as the same random model each round - sometimes everyone is a gorge, sometimes everyone is jetpack'd marine etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it would be cool if everyone was a different random model, the ready room would look like a neat NS2 social gathering with all the different creatures in there, and it would be more consistent with end-of-round classes being persistent in the RR.
You don't want people to be confused they are marines. So you say a random model would be appropriate, so by your original logic, wouldn't someone who see's both sides think they're already in the game?
You don't want people to be confused they are marines. So you say a random model would be appropriate, so by your original logic, wouldn't someone who see's both sides think they're already in the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And then they will start yelling
<!--quoteo(post=1824491:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:00 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 15 2011, 03:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824491"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You don't want people to be confused they are marines. So you say a random model would be appropriate, so by your original logic, wouldn't someone who see's both sides think they're already in the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You almost had a decent point there, but then you throw in a total non-sequiter about people "thinking they are already in the game." So I'll just ignore the fact that you've totally misunderstood what I have been saying, and just say that yes, you lose logical consistency with random models, but it is almost desirable in that it makes it more apparent what other people have been arguing, that the RR should be just a goofy "party" chatroom and not logically related to the main game. That is, as opposed to the current RR being a Marine environment with Marine models that gives a false impression that it's supposed to be consistent with the game world.
What I mean is that, when you are alone in the rr, you have no idea you use a marine model, as you cant see yourself.
And I think it makes perfect sense to "having marines transform into aliens (or marines) in the ready room", what would not make sense is having everyone use a special rr model.
And many people have explained why it makes sense when it comes to fiction, stuff like debriefing room, teleport room, or even ready rooms ;). Besides, fiction < gameplay.
<!--quoteo(post=1824495:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:06 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 15 2011, 03:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824495"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait. Are you saying it makes it less confusing to a player seeing random models as opposed to just seeing marines?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really want to assume you aren't trolling, but it's getting really difficult to respond to your consistent lack of understanding of my posts as if you are replying in good faith. I specifically said the current game state <b>is not confusing</b>, it just breaks the fourth wall. Breaking the fourth wall is perfectly acceptable, as long as it appears intentional and not just a result of lazy game design. I'm saying randomizing player models makes it obviously intentional and that's an equally valid solution to not breaking the fourth wall at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1824497:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:14 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 15 2011, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And many people have explained why it makes sense when it comes to fiction, stuff like debriefing room, teleport room, or even ready rooms ;). Besides, fiction < gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, none of those explanations make sense. If you start in a debriefing room as a Marine, why do you turn into an alien when the game starts?
<!--quoteo(post=1824500:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:19 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 15 2011, 03:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But wouldn't using a silly menu instead be an even lazier game design?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean by "a silly menu" and what does that have to do with anything?
I'm slightly confused why this thread isn't locked yet, probably because it's in I&S and you expect people not to actually understand really simple things; and for them to try and make it their own in some way.
<!--quoteo(post=1824501:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:21 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 15 2011, 03:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824501"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's not what I asked zex.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The answer to what you asked is "no, that's not what I'm saying, and it's not even a remotely rational interpretation of what I have been saying."
And just because the majority of replies are trolls or deeply confused isn't an adequate reason to lock a thread - maybe it's a decent reason for those posts to be deleted to attempt to keep the thread on topic.
Well if you agree that it would be confusing for a player to see random models in the ready room, and you agree it is illogical. Why would you say it's a good idea?
how many times do I have to repeat myself here? I don't agree that it would be "confusing" to see random models, and I just barely got done explaining to you why it's a better idea than all Marines.
<!--quoteo(post=1824498:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Breaking the fourth wall is perfectly acceptable, as long as it appears intentional and not just a result of lazy game design. I'm saying randomizing player models makes it obviously intentional and that's an equally valid solution to not breaking the fourth wall at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824503:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:24 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 15 2011, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824503"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would you say it's a good idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824498:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Breaking the fourth wall is perfectly acceptable, as long as it appears intentional and not just a result of lazy game design. I'm saying<b> randomizing player models makes it obviously intentional</b> and that's an equally valid solution to not breaking the fourth wall at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824494:date=Jan 15 2011, 12:04 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 12:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824494"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You almost had a decent point there, but then you throw in a total non-sequiter about people "thinking they are already in the game." So I'll just ignore the fact that you've totally misunderstood what I have been saying, and just say that yes, you lose logical consistency with random models, but it is almost desirable in that it makes it more apparent what other people have been arguing, that the RR should be just a goofy "party" chatroom and not logically related to the main game. That is, as opposed to the current RR being a Marine environment with Marine models that gives a false impression that it's supposed to be consistent with the game world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> according to you though the ready room is playing the game so how is it a total no-sequiter? you talk about logic and people being confused by their player model and then you are all for a random model idea which would more than likely cause more confusion or complaints that they didnt spawn as a certain model.
i fail to see how any one can be confused by whats goin on in the ready room. stick a tool tip saying "you're in the lobby, pick which team you want to be on".
<!--quoteo(post=1824509:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:32 AM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Jan 15 2011, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you talk about logic and people being confused by their player model and then you are all for a random model idea which would more than likely cause more confusion or complaints that they didnt spawn as a certain model.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the RR should make logical sense, but more people think it doesn't have to make logical sense and it's just a goofy chatroom. Therefore given other people's expectations (not mine), I think random models is a better solution than associating everyone with a single team before they pick teams, because it makes it more obvious that the RR is supposed to be a nonsensical chatroom. Get it?
TBH everyone should spawn as a resource node. That's neutral, and it represents potential. Spawning as an egg or an infantry portal would have been good, but it associates players with a specific team.[/sarcasm]
<!--quoteo(post=1824473:date=Jan 15 2011, 09:14 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh look, a meme image macro - the last resort of those who have nothing to say<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nothing is said, and yet it says so much...
Sure, random models, why not. Good idea, actually. Even though it's a good idea, I just want to point this out to you: Instead of making it illogical by starting as a marine in the ready room, you make it even more illogical by giving players completely random classes too. Is this a problem to me? Absolutely not. But it is a problem to you.
How it is now is already fine, though. Basically it means that at the start of a new map, or on a new join, everyone starts on the same level: a basic vanilla marine. Also add that players and the developers are human, so it makes sense that their starting avatar is human (which has been said by Chris already). It's simply unfortunate that human also equals marine. Maybe you could give them civilian clothes. Is it worth the effort?
ScardyBobScardyBobJoin Date: 2009-11-25Member: 69528Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
The ready room model should be this <img src="http://i.imgur.com/5Fxx0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That way no one gets confused. Also, other possible models available in: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112404" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112404</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1824544:date=Jan 15 2011, 06:15 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Jan 15 2011, 06:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824544"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just want to point this out to you: Instead of making it illogical by starting as a marine in the ready room, you make it even more illogical by giving players completely random classes too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a total and absolute shock to me especially considering I said the exact same thing in the post immediately before yours.
There is no "logical" solution. Just leave it be. It's fine as it is. (Oh, im no NS1 Vet by the way. Played it maybe 5 times when NS2 was announced) At least with Marines in rr you can see who is SE owner and who is not.
Of course we can chat about it for pages but we won't find a <b>better</b> solution, just a <b>different</b> one, as nothing is going to make more sense by logic, nore by fluff.
<!--quoteo(post=1824583:date=Jan 15 2011, 01:27 PM:name=gorge.ous)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gorge.ous @ Jan 15 2011, 01:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824583"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->nothing is going to make more sense by logic<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not true at all. For example the ready rooms in TF2 make perfect sense.
<!--quoteo(post=1824568:date=Jan 15 2011, 05:08 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 05:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824568"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is a total and absolute shock to me especially considering I said the exact same thing in the post immediately before yours.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't worry. I'm sure you'll recover.
<!--quoteo(post=1824592:date=Jan 15 2011, 09:47 PM:name=CoolCookieCooks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CoolCookieCooks @ Jan 15 2011, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about spawning as an invisible character? Everybody wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That removes part of the social aspect.
<!--quoteo(post=1824241:date=Jan 14 2011, 12:08 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 14 2011, 12:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On the contrary, I think people who haven't played NS1 WILL think about it, because it's the kind of thing that makes you think "wait, what?" right off the bat. Like I said, it's a really awkward first impression for new players. I get that it's a throwback to NS1, and it's exactly the kind of thing I'd expect to see in a mod/indy game where they have good ideas but don't have the time or budget to implement them 100%. But I don't believe that's the image UW is trying to accomplish with NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think your over analyzing the RR. I have been playing for about 2 weeks now maybe a bit more and the first time I logged in I thought it was cool. I didn't question why it was included in the game. I liked it because it reminded me of Mech Assault 2 where you would have a war room for planning before you went to the match. These little additions make games so much more immersive or just add to the experience. Again I honestly believe you are over analyzing it.
Also I can explain starting out as a marine. First it identifies the player as a living breathing character. Second when you start as a marine, you have two options. The good side, which is the marine and you stay un mutated, or the second which is alien where you get mutated and then teleported to your new race. Seems perfectly logical to me. You could add a bit of backstory saying "Something happens in between warping to the planets and some humans come in contact with a genetic mutation before reaching planetside." Of course someone with more imagination could expand on this but again it seems very logical. Again you are over analyzing such a simple mechanic. It's supposed to diversify the game a bit. So it's not the run of the mill pick a menu item to join a team.
PS: I have never played NS1. So yes the RR is a completely new and in all honesty refreshing experience. It's the little details that add to this game.
It's not about "over analyzing" the RR, it's about analyzing it at all. I never played Mech Assault 2 but I would bet the "war room" was not both teams planning together before the match started and then joining opposing teams, because that wouldn't make any sense. I imagine each team had their own room.
About your explanation of evveryone starting as a Marine and then mutating, I agree that's what the current RR gives the impression of... and If the alien designs were mutated versions of humans, then your scenario would make perfect sense. But according to UW they are supposed to be mutated versions of the native life on an alien planet (could easily be Earth given that they mostly look like Earth animals). So your scenario would kind of destroy the existing UW backstory.
Comments
Well my answer to zex argument would be, that for starters, you do not know your own playermodel, and secondly, if others are in rr at same timee you start your first game so you see its marines, I still doubt they would be confused, as the stuff clearly is labeled "Join Aliens" and "Join Marines", even with a playermodel to show what team it is. This should make it very obvious to anyone that they are in an unassigned team no matter living players model (atleast was to me).
And if people think the whole rr thing is confusing, then I wonder what they expect when they join a team. Sure maybe a menu like in css or tf2 is what games usually have, but figuring out that this small room must be an awesome replacement for lame menus shouldnt take more than a few seconds (atleast did not to me). Something I think is worth the fact of having awesome ready rooms ;).
Offtopic:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What I said (not "implied" in your imagination) is that it's easy to understand why the having marines transform into aliens (or marines) in the ready room doesn't make sense. This isn't about people agreeing that it should be changed or not, it's just a basic fact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cant state that an opinion is a fact (even if others agree, its still an opinion), and you did "implie" (as in, not stating it outright) that anyone not agreeing with your "facts" is a moron.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Players will understand that they are in an area where they choose a team. They will not be "confused" or "mislead." But if they have a <b>functional capacity for logical thinking</b>, they will think "why do I have to walk to marine team start when I'm already a marine" or "why are marines spontaneously transforming into aliens in order to fight against themselves."<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
EDIT:
Also, epic half life reference kouji! XD
I have a lot of problems with your post but I'll start out by admitting I have no idea what you are trying to say with this answer to my argument. What does "you do not know your own playermodel" mean in this context and how is that an answer to the critique that starting as a marine and transforming to an alien doesn't make sense?
<!--quoteo(post=1824480:date=Jan 15 2011, 02:40 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 15 2011, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824480"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Offtopic:
You cant state that an opinion is a fact (even if others agree, its still an opinion), and you did "implie" (as in, not stating it outright) that anyone not agreeing with your "facts" is a moron.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look, nobody in this thread has even attempted to explain how the ready room logically makes sense in the context of NS2's fiction. That's because it DOESN'T, even the people who totally disagree with me about the need to change it 100% agree on this point, as evidenced by the total and complete lack of counter argument. I'm not saying people who disagree with me are morons, i'm saying it's self evident that what i'm saying on that point (RR's lack of logical consistency) is correct. Note how you and Uggz aren't even saying I'm wrong on this point, you're just nitpicking the way I phrased it in order to falsely accuse me of insulting someone.
I think it would be cool if everyone was a different random model, the ready room would look like a neat NS2 social gathering with all the different creatures in there, and it would be more consistent with end-of-round classes being persistent in the RR.
You don't want people to be confused they are marines. So you say a random model would be appropriate, so by your original logic, wouldn't someone who see's both sides think they're already in the game?
You don't want people to be confused they are marines. So you say a random model would be appropriate, so by your original logic, wouldn't someone who see's both sides think they're already in the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And then they will start yelling
Commander I needz shirtgun!
You almost had a decent point there, but then you throw in a total non-sequiter about people "thinking they are already in the game." So I'll just ignore the fact that you've totally misunderstood what I have been saying, and just say that yes, you lose logical consistency with random models, but it is almost desirable in that it makes it more apparent what other people have been arguing, that the RR should be just a goofy "party" chatroom and not logically related to the main game. That is, as opposed to the current RR being a Marine environment with Marine models that gives a false impression that it's supposed to be consistent with the game world.
And I think it makes perfect sense to "having marines transform into aliens (or marines) in the ready room", what would not make sense is having everyone use a special rr model.
And many people have explained why it makes sense when it comes to fiction, stuff like debriefing room, teleport room, or even ready rooms ;). Besides, fiction < gameplay.
I really want to assume you aren't trolling, but it's getting really difficult to respond to your consistent lack of understanding of my posts as if you are replying in good faith. I specifically said the current game state <b>is not confusing</b>, it just breaks the fourth wall. Breaking the fourth wall is perfectly acceptable, as long as it appears intentional and not just a result of lazy game design. I'm saying randomizing player models makes it obviously intentional and that's an equally valid solution to not breaking the fourth wall at all.
<!--quoteo(post=1824497:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:14 AM:name=Feha)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Feha @ Jan 15 2011, 03:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824497"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And many people have explained why it makes sense when it comes to fiction, stuff like debriefing room, teleport room, or even ready rooms ;). Besides, fiction < gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, none of those explanations make sense. If you start in a debriefing room as a Marine, why do you turn into an alien when the game starts?
<!--quoteo(post=1824500:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:19 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Jan 15 2011, 03:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824500"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But wouldn't using a silly menu instead be an even lazier game design?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean by "a silly menu" and what does that have to do with anything?
However it's rather hard to get sense out of you.
I'm slightly confused why this thread isn't locked yet, probably because it's in I&S and you expect people not to actually understand really simple things; and for them to try and make it their own in some way.
The answer to what you asked is "no, that's not what I'm saying, and it's not even a remotely rational interpretation of what I have been saying."
And just because the majority of replies are trolls or deeply confused isn't an adequate reason to lock a thread - maybe it's a decent reason for those posts to be deleted to attempt to keep the thread on topic.
<!--quoteo(post=1824498:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Breaking the fourth wall is perfectly acceptable, as long as it appears intentional and not just a result of lazy game design. I'm saying randomizing player models makes it obviously intentional and that's an equally valid solution to not breaking the fourth wall at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824503:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:24 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jan 15 2011, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824503"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would you say it's a good idea?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1824498:date=Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 03:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824498"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Breaking the fourth wall is perfectly acceptable, as long as it appears intentional and not just a result of lazy game design. I'm saying<b> randomizing player models makes it obviously intentional</b> and that's an equally valid solution to not breaking the fourth wall at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Every time I reply you edit your posts. Congratulations. You've trolled successfully and I'm not going to bother trying to make sense of you anymore.
according to you though the ready room is playing the game so how is it a total no-sequiter? you talk about logic and people being confused by their player model and then you are all for a random model idea which would more than likely cause more confusion or complaints that they didnt spawn as a certain model.
i fail to see how any one can be confused by whats goin on in the ready room. stick a tool tip saying "you're in the lobby, pick which team you want to be on".
I think the RR should make logical sense, but more people think it doesn't have to make logical sense and it's just a goofy chatroom. Therefore given other people's expectations (not mine), I think random models is a better solution than associating everyone with a single team before they pick teams, because it makes it more obvious that the RR is supposed to be a nonsensical chatroom. Get it?
<!--quoteo(post=1824473:date=Jan 15 2011, 09:14 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Jan 15 2011, 09:14 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->oh look, a meme image macro - the last resort of those who have nothing to say<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing is said, and yet it says so much...
Sure, random models, why not. Good idea, actually.
Even though it's a good idea, I just want to point this out to you: Instead of making it illogical by starting as a marine in the ready room, you make it even more illogical by giving players completely random classes too. Is this a problem to me? Absolutely not. But it is a problem to you.
How it is now is already fine, though. Basically it means that at the start of a new map, or on a new join, everyone starts on the same level: a basic vanilla marine. Also add that players and the developers are human, so it makes sense that their starting avatar is human (which has been said by Chris already). It's simply unfortunate that human also equals marine. Maybe you could give them civilian clothes. Is it worth the effort?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/5Fxx0.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That way no one gets confused. Also, other possible models available in: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112404" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=112404</a>
That is a total and absolute shock to me especially considering I said the exact same thing in the post immediately before yours.
Of course we can chat about it for pages but we won't find a <b>better</b> solution, just a <b>different</b> one, as nothing is going to make more sense by logic, nore by fluff.
That's not true at all. For example the ready rooms in TF2 make perfect sense.
Don't worry. I'm sure you'll recover.
<!--quoteo(post=1824592:date=Jan 15 2011, 09:47 PM:name=CoolCookieCooks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CoolCookieCooks @ Jan 15 2011, 09:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1824592"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How about spawning as an invisible character? Everybody wins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That removes part of the social aspect.
What do you mean?
I think your over analyzing the RR. I have been playing for about 2 weeks now maybe a bit more and the first time I logged in I thought it was cool. I didn't question why it was included in the game. I liked it because it reminded me of Mech Assault 2 where you would have a war room for planning before you went to the match. These little additions make games so much more immersive or just add to the experience. Again I honestly believe you are over analyzing it.
Also I can explain starting out as a marine. First it identifies the player as a living breathing character. Second when you start as a marine, you have two options. The good side, which is the marine and you stay un mutated, or the second which is alien where you get mutated and then teleported to your new race. Seems perfectly logical to me. You could add a bit of backstory saying "Something happens in between warping to the planets and some humans come in contact with a genetic mutation before reaching planetside." Of course someone with more imagination could expand on this but again it seems very logical. Again you are over analyzing such a simple mechanic. It's supposed to diversify the game a bit. So it's not the run of the mill pick a menu item to join a team.
PS: I have never played NS1. So yes the RR is a completely new and in all honesty refreshing experience. It's the little details that add to this game.
About your explanation of evveryone starting as a Marine and then mutating, I agree that's what the current RR gives the impression of... and If the alien designs were mutated versions of humans, then your scenario would make perfect sense. But according to UW they are supposed to be mutated versions of the native life on an alien planet (could easily be Earth given that they mostly look like Earth animals). So your scenario would kind of destroy the existing UW backstory.